jda123

Front signals into the 3sixty for ALL CHANNELS

Front Outputs run the tweeters
Rear Outputs run the midbass
Sub Output runs the subs.
Center Output - do whatever you want with this

The front pre-amp signal is full range and very flat (not completely). I does not need summed with any other signal in the 3G TL.

geekybiker

The 360 can take 2 channel input and replicate that for all output channels. So you can take a stereo source and make 6 output channels with it. It also can sum channels, You could run all 6 factory inputs to it and it would sum them to make one big flat stereo channel for you. Normally you only need that on non-full range signals. Additionally it will auto-EQ the factory input signal to be as flat as possible.

On the TL I would still only run the fronts and sub there. You might not even need the sub if you don't care about the +/- sub channel control on the HU.

If you want to use it to run active, you'll use the front channels for tweets and the rear channels for mids (for example) or you could just Y the output of the fronts and use the crossovers on the amp to create a tweeter and mid channel.

I hate cars

I've used so many combos that I confuse myself sometimes.

The first system was stock amp-->LOC-->Amps.

That was used for the majority of the time I've owned the car.

Second was stock amp-->LOC-->MS8-->amps

Third was HU-->LOC-->Line Driver-->MS8--> 3 amps. Retarded setup, I know but it was done out of laziness.

Fourth and current is HU-->Line Driver-->MS8-->3 amps.

The line driver really isn't necessary with the power I have anymore. It gave me a little boost before and I might leave it in but I'm going try it for a while without just to see if I'm missing anything. If I can eliminate one component I will. In the end, I hope to end up with just a few components, something like this:

Stock hu-->MS8--> 2 Zed Leviathan amps. That would be a pretty simple setup for a 3-way plus center and two subs fully active setup. With only 4 components in the system I hope it would be reliable and easy to tune.

On tones with the stock amp-->LOC-->amps before I installed the MS8 going to the 12W6 IB it played 10hz with a scary amount of excursion. The signal makes it there, not sure how much of it gets cut but it's there.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Alright guys, just got the 3sixty.2 in and just ordered the new box earlier today. Hopefully it arrives quickly!! I'll start hooking it all up tomorrow and start tuning in the fronts. This post is to get all my wiring in line and make sure I'm correct....and to ask questions haha.


1. OK... Either using the Front Left (FL) & Front Right (FR) for everything or using (FL & FR) PLUS the Sub (+) and (-) for the sub channel. Seems like most of you suggest just using the 2 front wires for everything as they are full range and flat. Does this look correct??




2. Also, would I take the FL and FR (+) into the Sub Channel (+)?? Or what?? Sorry...kinda a noob when it comes to wiring as I over think it!



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OUTPUTS

(top...obviously)


Just to make sure this is correct...

Front R/L ---> Channels 1/2 (Q4.150)

Rear R/L ---> Channels 3/4 (Q4.150)

Sub ---> Do I only need to go into L or R on PDX...or do I need to go to both L/R inputs?

Center ---> unused


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RF 3sixty.2

There is B+, Power, Ground.

B+: (what the hell is this and where do I take it from?)

Power: Do I just take a small (16ga.) wire and wire into the power wire from the battery for this?? I'm assuming I can just put the speaker wire into the "Power" on the PDX or MB Q amp and then run it from there to the RF 3sixty.2. Right?

Ground: Can I just make a new ground using some 16ga. speaker wire?? Or do I just tap into the ground that's for the amps...kinda like for the Power??




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Questions

1. What do I do with all the x-overs, gains, etc on the MB Q and PDX amp?

geekybiker

You don't need the Y. Just run the front R/L to the front R/L input on the 3sixty and it will dupe the input for you.


Only if you you're running active on your comps. Front R/L goto channel 1/2 then run the sub out to 3/4 (y adapter) This is assuming you're bridging 3/4 for the sub.



B+ positve power. Get this from your amp power. I had a distribution block, but any you can probably tap this as well.

Power is the remote wire (center wire in the jack) just run it to the remote hole on you amp.

Ground you put a ring terminal on it and run it to the same ground screw as your amp.





Set the 1/2 to all pass, and turn the pots for the cross overs to the min settings for safety.

3/4 I left low pass since it says bridged there. Just turn it to the lowest settings.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Ah nice, didn't know it would dupe it for me. I can use that signal for fronts ( tweets) and dupe it for rear (mids) and sub (subs). I'm guessing it'll know that it's full range but I'll be able to pick my HP/LP points & slopes.

I will be running active on the MB Q4.150. So I'm guessing the way I had it is correct. The "sub" single RCA out on the 3sixty.2 will go to my PDX1.1000. I'm not sure if I need to connect both RCA's on the PDX end or just one but I can test it.

I also have a distro block for 2 amps power, so did you just take some speaker wire and put it in an already filled spot? I figure you could just wire it into the "in" power wire. Mine is 1 in 2 out distro

geekybiker

When you run through setup it'll guide you through using the test CD to determine if you have a full signal range. If you don't have the test cd the two tracks you need are on the RF under the 3sixty downloads. Just burn it to an audio cd. Once the guided setup is done you can go through and pick your crossover points, slopes, eq, and time delay.

Yah, Just squeeze the wire in anywhere on your distribution block you can get a solid connection. I had an open slot on mine.

geekybiker

Oh yah, dont forget to set the gains on your amp again. you'll want to turn them down before starting.

jda123

You need to connect both RCAs on the sub amp - buy a Y connector.

Turn the crossovers off on the MB, if you can. If you cannot, then or HP them outside of the range of signal that you are sending so that the crossovers don't interfere.

Use the gains to tune in the volume. This is the best part of running active.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Looks like I'll need 3 RCA's for this job. I was wondering if I can go pick up some basic RCA's for connecting 3sixty.2 ---> Amps or if I'll need twisted RCA's. The signal is no longer balanced out of the 3sixty.2 right? Hence why the noise isn't a factor anymore. Anyways...Just need about 3 <6ft ones so I was going to go pick up some cheapo's until I can get something in that's nicer

geekybiker

Its a real short run. Anything that grips your terminals well is going to be fine.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Good news. I'll go buy some el cheapo one's real quick and order these for later (http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...t=1#largeimage)

geekybiker

Don't forget a Y cable for your sub.

jda123

If they don't grip very good, just give 'em a pinch and they will snug up.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

So I'm running a "new setup" in the 3sixty.2. I'm assuming that's what I want over an OEM Intergration.

Also, when you first start and it tells you to play track 1...should all the speakers be playing?? I'm only hearing my rears and center.

geekybiker

Yup, OEM. When its doing the test track stuff you can totally disconnect your speakers. It's just measuring the signal coming from the HU. Track 1 measures if you have a full range signal. Track two is the auto EQ portion. Did you remember to set your gains on your 360? You should be able to turn it up all the way if you're doing the calibration at 35 like me.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

A. Factory Wires (Preamp) --------> RF 3sixty.2 FRONT (speaker wire inputs)

Green ---> LF (+)
Blue ----> LF (-)
Black ----> RF (+)
Grey ----> RF (-)

• I used 22ga. "thermostat wire" here. 7-conductor (only used 4 though..obviously)
• The unit turns on, gets power, and accepts the bluetooth signal, etc etc so I assume that the B+, Remote, Ground are all good and correct

B. RF 3sixty.2 RCA Outputs -------> RCA cable to Amps

Front L/R -----> Channels 1/2 on MB Q4.150 (tweeters)
Rear L/R ------> Channels 3/4 on MB Q4.150 (mids)
Sub ------> Y-cable to Sub Input


C. Amp Speaker Wire --------> Individual Speakers

PDX should all be correct...



-- MB Q4.150 --
Channel 1 -----> LF Tweeter
Channel 2 -----> RF Tweeter
Channel 3 ------> LF Mid
Channel 4 ------> RF Mid

• Both amps power on fine and indicate they are on and workable. Kinda weird but I nudged the "B+, Rem., Ground" connector on the 3sixty.2 while it was on and got a little thud from my subs. wtf?

So yeah, I'm not getting any sound from my Fronts or Subs while playing Track 1. The Palm phone that came with the 3sixty.2 works and finds the 3sixty.2 and will communicate with it. Any idea what's going on?

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Ok so "new setup" should be used instead of "OEM".

I select "new setup". Then select only Front L and Front R for "speakers connected". I assume this is where you'll be able to just tell it to take that signal and assign it to the "rear" and "sub" channels at a later time yes?

But yeah, while running Track 1 it's just my rears and centers playing. I wish I would have disconnect/taken out my rears in the first place but whatever. As long as all speakers shouldn't be playing during this time then ok. Just a little worried that I messed up somewhere.

geekybiker

Ditch the wire. Buy some cat 6 network cable. There are two sets of twisted pair wires in there. Cheap an its twisted like you want. Solder your RCA's on there.



Yah, if you plug in the power to the 3sixty it can cause a thud. Power on thumps aren't uncommon, but luckily its only when its plugged in.


If you've correctly disconnected your RCA cables from the output of the 3sixty while doing the setup, this is totally normal. If its just not getting any sound in general, check your gains. Especially on the 3sixty. Play track 2 and set the gain just before the red light comes on. A blue light should be on. Leave your volume set to 35 for this. Disconnect the output from the 3sixty.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Got it! We're in business!!

Right now:
tweeters at 3kHz/24db (level -14db); mb gain at 1/4
Mids at 65hz/24db (level -10db);mb gain slightly under 1/2

This is going to be fun!! The mids have authority now and sound like they are hitting much cleaner. AND...the tweeters arent anywhere near as loud as they used to be. (did this on purpose). They sound warm now but a tad muffled. If I can remove this slight warmth and muffle, they'll be good. Still unsure on how low I can take these tweets but I'm sure 2.2 or 2.5kHz isn't out of the question. Not soon though. New box (3.06cuft sealed) comes tomorrow so that'll be nice too.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Do I need to put the mids on bandpass?? (...I think I saw it on the 3sixty.2 options). So if Ive got them HP at 65 do they play all the way up to where the music stops?..or do they play up until where the tweeter x-over is? I figure the latter is "bandpass" and what I need right?

geekybiker

Mid is going to be bandpass. Crossed low with the sub and high with the tweet. HP is going to send them the tweeter frequencies as well.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Geeky what do you have your's at right now?? You should put your equipment in your sig...I always forget what you have for speakers and subs.

geekybiker

I have my comps HP at 80hz with a 24db slope. My Sub is LP at 100hz with a 12db slope. The CTX65cs start rolling off pretty bad past 100hz. I think 80hz is what they list as their low end response in the specs. Once I deaden my doors I may try and lower the sub, but honestly a 10" is a good mid-bass drive as well.

I hate cars

Deadening and sealing the doors will make a huge difference in midbass. I wouldn't even worry about the CTXs output until you do that. Mine were easily good to 80hz, you could hear them down to 60hz. If you think the 10" makes a good mb, try a pair of 15s with an Le value as low as some tweeters. These things will play female vocals.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Tweeters: 3kHZ/24db slope (-10 level); amp gain 1/4

Mids: BP'd (LP:65hz/24db & HP: 3kHZ/24db); amp gain 1/2

I feel like the mids are hitting but I still don't get that "sounds like I have a sub" or "can play w/o a sub" type feeling. I don't know if I need to up my gains or what. I'm scared To blow them or over exert them though. For the tweeters, they have died down A BUNCH in loudness. It's not even that loud at volume 30 anymore and I'm not sure if that's what the "level" does on the 3sixty.2 or not. I'll play around with it I guess. I feel like they are warm sounding but lost that top end sparkle.

Box comes today but I have class tonight so might try it later tonight. I'll likely keep posting my different settings and then review the sound I hear. Hopefully it'll help me keep track and to realize how its all working

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Is there a way in a song(s) or in test tones that will help to dial in the mids and the power and sound they should have?? I just feel like I don't really know "how" they should be sounding ya know. I guess you just crank them until distortion but that's hard to decipher sometimes

geekybiker

Get a 0db 1khz test tone and burn it to a CD. Set your volume to what you used to setup the 3sixty (35?) Go fiddle with the gain on your amp until you don't get the amber or clip clipping light.

Alternately if you have a DMM you can set your gains with it.
Volts=sqrt(rms * ohms)

so

V=sqrt(150*4ohms)

V=24.49

Check to make sure your speakers are really 4 ohm. some are 3.5, etc.

You can do the same thing with your other speakers and a test tone in the middle of their range. This'll help you get gains right, but not level match.

For level matching you really need a something like a real time spectrum analyzer to do it 100%. Otherwise just do it by ear. You may find it easier to do the level matching with the levels in the 3sixty.2 than with the gains. You can move in precise increments rather than fiddle with knobs, save settings, and do it all from your listening position.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Great thanks!! Do you have the level on your's at 0db or what??

Anyone have any ideas on mounting?? Ive got both amps and processor just laying on the floor in trunk right now. Wires all tangled up, etc..it's ugly.

I hate cars

Your door is deadened, right?

Polarity correct?

I've only heard one door mounted 6.5" that truly sounded like a sub, probably hitting into the 40hz range but very low SPL at lower frequencies. My IDs were good for that price range but after getting over the initial shock at how much more midbass there was over the Infinities they replaced I still wouldn't want to go subless. I could barely hear 65hz and after that, no sound.

You should be able to easily get enough output to vibrate your jeans or leg hair while driving.

If you really want to see if they're capable of sounding like a sub, move the high pass to 40hz and be very careful with the volume. Chances are all it's going to do is muddy up the midrange. Every component set I've had including the Dyns (but much less so) sound cleaner in the vocal range when they're high passed higher.

That's another thing you can do, try 80-100hz high pass and see if they sound cleaner. If they struggle to play 65hz already, moving the crossover up probably won't hurt the bass too much. When the subs get in, you can low pass at 65hz on a 12db slope and under lap them with the mids at 80hz and a steeper slope.

Once you get those W6s into a large box you will be able to run them up higher anyway without that peaky "boxy" sound. I'm still a little worried at only 1.5' but it should be quite a bit better. I would definitely use some kind of poly fill.

One thing I did to learn eq-ing is boost each frequency as far as it would let you just to see how it sounds and what you like. I've never seen anyone suggest this before so maybe it's completely wrong. There are also several EQ tutorials online that will give you a band by band explanation of what each one effects and how each one relates to one another. It will tell you which one will give too much of the dreaded "s" out of the tweeters, which ones give clarity without hurting your ears, which one makes vocals stand out, which one makes certain instruments stand out while hurting others, etc.

geekybiker

My levels are mostly set -3 -4 db in the 3sixty. The 0db tone I'm talking about is just a full volume sine wave. DIYMA has a test tones area that you can DL from.

For mounting I just cut a board that fit next to my sub out of 3/4 mdf. Some 3m spray adhesive and automotive carpet and I had a pretty, fuzzy, board to mount crap to.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Doors are deadened using SDS tiles. Next over the deadener is a whole sheet of CCF. Then a whole sheet of MLV. I turned up the gain for the mids and they got moving pretty damn good so I think I was just shy with the power for these guys.

I've run into a problem though...and a weird one. I'm getting a small and very quiet pop when I turn on the car out of the FRONT LEFT (drivers side). When I turn off the car, I get a loud thud from that exact same speaker. I can't pinpoint if the tweeters are doing it but I can say for sure that the FRONT RIGHT mid IS NOT doing this. WTF could be doing this?? It wasn't doing this earlier today and wasn't doing this until I tried to hook up the remote knob. I set it up to control the "sub" but it wasn't really making the sub any louder at all. So I unplugged the knob. I'm not sure if this is why or if I need to somehow disable it but I'm a little scared to turn my car on. I mean this kind of a thing is never good.

Things that haven't worked:
- unplugging RCA's for mids going into amp
- unplugging Inputs into 3sixty.2





Edit: Just picked up my box and there's a crack in 2 places around the right sub ring. It's pretty rigid...but most definitely noticeable. I'm not sure if this will hinder the performance or if I should tell them to make me another one. One is at the very top of the circle and the other is at the very bottom of the circle. I feel like if I'm paying for a box it should be done correctly ya know. Ugh...

geekybiker

I don't know that I can help you with the pop. I'd check and make sure your gains look the same on both sides, and everything is set to AP on the amp. Same on the 360.

The box I'd take back if its brand new. No excuse for a cracked ring on a new box.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

1. Still can't figure out why my drivers side mid is popping when I turn the car off
2. Can I fade my nav all the way to the front so the rears don't play?? I should have unplugged them (actually..I'll just cut the pre-amp wires for them). I only ask b/c you are supposed to center it when setting up the 3sixty.2 so I want to make sure I'm getting the full signal I guess.
3. My q4.150 gains are all the way down and my mids sound plenty powerful when the 3sixty.2 level is put to -5db. Should I keep it on -10db and use amp gains for dialing in power or what??
4. When looking at the setup on my laptop, the EQ chart shows up for everything but the right rear (passenger mid). It says "OEM signal not used". Whats this about??

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Just used the time alignment. Stage sounds like it's right on top of the dash in the center. Sounds like I have a little 8" or 10" in the center console too. Subs sound like they're blending better too. Can't wait to get that new box in there. Should be next Monday or Tuesday.

Here's what I got:
Left Tweeter: 3'
Left Mid: 3' 4"
Right Tweeter: 4' 6"
Right Mid: 4' 10"

Corrected:
Left Tweeter: 58" - 36" = 1' 10"
Left Mid: 58" - 40" = 1' 6"
Right Tweeter: 58" - 54" = 4"
Right Mid: No Delay


I know I change my mind a lot....but today....I really am feeling these Massive tweeters. They are no longer too loud and really sound pretty solid for the price

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

I got the new box in and I'll post pics to show the size, etc later. Right now I'd like to ask a few questions about tuning. I feel like my setup is MUCH better than when it was on the passive x-overs...but I still feel like it's a tad "artificial" sounding. It still feels like vocals and bass...instead of a nice blend of the two across the freq. range. Hopefully you know what I'm talking about here. My specs right now are:

Tweeters: 3kHz/24db (-6db level on 3sixty.2)
-- They don't sound bad at all, but seems like they get harsher up top and become separated from the rest of the music. How to do blend them better so vocals sound more natural.

Mids: 75hz/24db

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

^^ Anyone??


Also, I'm getting a VERY slight bit of alternator whine. What causes this so I can fix it??

jda123

Hard to advise since we cannot really hear them. I didn't like the massive set. Just guessing, I would say that it is the set. Try the others.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

yeah true. Does raising the x-over lessen the harshness/fatiguing nature of a tweeter? I like the detail it has, but it's not quite a warm as I'd like it. A well recorded rock song like some stuff from A Perfect Circle or Hotel California from the Eagles has incredible midbass. Very snappy and hits with authority. I've got tons of bass and really feel it all around me (can't locate the subs) BUT I feel like the tweeters sound to artificial and separated from the song. It's almost like the transition between mids and tweets isn't smooth so it doesn't come together. Don't get me wrong...sounds damn good right now but I want perfect lol. I forgot about those ID CXS's...I'll try those out tomorrow and report back.

Any idea where to cross them at for starters and slopes, etc? I can't find anything on them for people running active

I hate cars

Try a 12db slope.