I hate cars

I didn't believe in break-in until I installed my IDs in the doors. Practically no midbass at first and after a couple weeks they came to life.

However, the Dyns actually move my jeans, you can feel the kick even at 80hz high pass. The IDs had a nice snap to them but nothing like the Dyns. This is the same door, deadening, amp, etc. So I guess it does depend based on the brand. According to the specs, the IDs have a little more xmax too so I figured I would lose total midbass going to the Dyns. Another reason why I no longer look at specs real close but instead just as an estimate now.

I hate cars

Door not opening from the inside is the cable that attaches to the inside door handle. I've missed it a hundred times now lol.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Yeah I'm with you, I'm thinking they'll open up after a bit more use but they seem to be doing their job as I can't localize the subs like I used to. You can still slightly tell they're in the rear but its MUCH better. I just hope I can get this tweeter under control or I'll be finding another set.

Haha yeah it's that damn wire cable. I missed on both sides! when I put my door panels back on. It's hard as hell to feed wires, connectors, etc through the CCF/MLV layers and connect them while holding the panel up close enough to hook them up.

jda123

Nothing says "class" like having to roll the window down to get out of the car - been there in a past life. If you want to play it off and look cool, then just get in/out through the window like Bo/Luke Duke did in the General Lee.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Haha yeah. My girl felt like royalty for the past few days because I've had to let her out everywhere we go!

Here's a good review on the CK6 vs. HAT Imagines. Guy seems to think that the HAT's were more musical, but the Massive's imaged better, had more authority, and were louder. You'd think the RK6 mid would kill the CK mid but some are saying the RK mid is a bit muddier and not as punchy as the CK. Tweeters are the same.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...ssive-ck3.html



Where can I buy the felt to put over the tweeters? I'm going to try it and see what I think. Like I said, they aren't as bright as they're breaking in...just loud as hell

eggyhustles

If u want to try your luck again with used..can't beat old school sq

Soundstream 604
http://cgi.ebay.com/SOUNDSTREAM-RUBI...item27badc717c

Rockford 800a2
http://cgi.ebay.com/Rockford-Fosgate...item2310cca5b5

Lanzar 600
http://cgi.ebay.com/Old-School-Lanza...item2a109c421b

PPI sedona
http://cgi.ebay.com/PRECISION-POWER-...item4cf727c80c

New

Soundstream reference
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Sound...fAudioQ5fVideo

Cadence
http://cgi.ebay.com/Cadence-Xa175-4-...item43a72b0fa8

Diamond
http://cgi.ebay.com/DIAMOND-AUDIO-D6...item5d2e76c3d6

kenwood(one of the better amps they've made)
http://cgi.ebay.com/KENWOOD-X600F-12...item4159cc9572

Massive
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Massive-Audi...item2eb53dd810

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Thanks eggy

So I installed the Ground Loop Isolater yesterday and shit got weird. It helped, but weird things are happening now. When I turn the car on, I get that same loud static/noise that I've been getting for about 5 seconds. After 5 seconds, that all goes away and the right tweeter (side) starts playing for about 2-3 seconds before the left. Even though this is happening, the hiss/noise is almost inaudible now unless your ear is 6" or less from the tweeter.

I hate cars

That sounds so familiar. My GF didn't want me to fix my door. I even had some random girl walking by comment on how nice it was that guys still open doors for girls lol.

The problem is when you have one of your friends in the car and you have to walk by and pop the handle quickly so no one sees. I got some weird looks the first time I opened the door for one of my friends.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

FML

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-problems-fixes-114/its-great-day-820148/

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

8/18/2011


So I've ditched the PDX 4.100 and picked up an MB Quart Q4.150 to run active. BUT...I just picked up a 3sixty.2 (brand new in box) and included Palm to tune it. I can use a laptop that has bluetooth though right?? Anyways, the 3sixty.2 should be here next tuesday-ish and I can't wait to get it in and have some tunes in my TL as I haven't had any for roughly 2 weeks.


My question to people using processors is did you extend the existing pre-amp speaker wire all the way to the rear?? And what gauge wire did you use to do this?? Gonna be a tight fit with 4 wires (2 tweeters, 2 mids) PLUS the stock wiring, though the stock should be pretty darn small. I'm sure it fits though, since quite a few have done it!


Another Question is that I have my PDX1.1000 right now that runs these 12w6's at 4ohms (roughly 500 per w6). I can get a RF t1500-bdCP that will give maybe slightly more but I hear is a great amp (also at 4ohms). It's BNIB and will only cost me $50-60 more than what I sell my PDX for. While researching the PDX birthsheets, I've come across a few people say the PDX just lacks "balls" when it comes to bass. Just a thought of mine and maybe some of you can chime in


So here's how she sits:
HU: Factory Nav
Processor: RF 3sixty.2
Sub Amp: PDX1.1000 (or RF 1500bdCP)
Comp. Amp: MB Quart Q4.150
Subs: (2) JL 12w6
Comps: ID CXS (Massive RK6 backup until someone buys; likely play with them active also to see how they do)
Misc: SDS CLD Tiles, SDS MLV & SDS CCF for doors also

jda123

I can post the birthsheets of my T1500-1bdcps, but I think that they are both over 1200w at 4 ohms and near 2000w at 2 and 1 ohm. I would consider it a significant upgrade over the PDX. They don't mess around. They are larger than the PDX, so if you need small, then look elsewhere. It is around 89-90% efficient at 4 ohms - I o'scoped the first one that I bought.

Check out speedwire, or thermostat wire to run your stock signal back to the back. You can send lots of channels back there, but with the 3sixty, you only really need the fronts.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Damn! Didn't know they were that efficient. Nice! Do you think $75 or even $100 is worth the upgrade?? I'm not trying to go louder, just get the best SQ I can

I'll check out speedwire and thermostat wire for the stock runs. I just figured I'd run the fronts and sub's to the RF in the trunk. Thanks!

jda123

I would pay that, but only you can decide if it is worth it for you.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Yeah it's hard. For this $100 difference I could get a new box (1.5 sealed per woofer). I'm wondering if they are already getting enough power but the box is the weak point (1 or 1.1 per woofer now).

This what you're talking about?
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...-250-Roll.html

Anywhere you know of cheaper/better?? That's 18ga. it says, which I assume is more than plenty for those wires

I hate cars

I would do the box before making the amp decision. Going from 1 to 1.5, they're going to xmax easier which is a good thing but they may not take as much power before hitting the mechanical limits. I should note that they have 25mm of total throw so even though you might be past the 16.5mm xmax, you're probably not going to hurt them. I would also polyfill the box especially if you low pass them pretty high. The box is a problem without a doubt.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Hm, good point. They just sound shitty and have no top end or low bottom end (30 down). I remember you saying they sounded leaps and bounds better with 1.5 per sub rather than 1cuft. per sub.

I'm always scared I'm going to push them too much (xmax-wise) so I need to figure out just how far 16mm of extension really is. Hopefully the ID CXS mids will add that punch in the midrange that I like too. Ugh..I want this 3sixty.2 already! lol

I hate cars

In a 1 cube box, you will probably hit the thermal limits long before the mechanical limits. They have a great suspension and 25mm each way before you damage anything. I wish you could've seen the excursion when I put mine in the infinite baffle configuration, it was scary. For what it's worth, they sounded very nice way past 16.5mm. I couldn't hear any degredation in sound. No motor noise and no tinsel slap. They have a VERY quiet motor and suspension at high excursions.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Any good ideas on how to mount the amps and 3sixty.2?? I don't feel like just mounting it all on the box again. Thought about taking out the spare and making an MDF sheet to fit down in there an put everything on that. I think someone here has something like that.

geekybiker

What program do you use to figure out when a speaker will hit xmax? I have winisd, but maybe I'm missing it.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Xmax is in the generic sub specs. Programs like WinISD..not sure. Never used them. I'd PM IHC geeky..he might see it sooner and be able to help ya if you're talking about something different than what I'm thinking (just basic xmax and xmech #'s)

geekybiker

Yah, what I want is a chart showing what frequency my sub will hit xmax when I feed it 240w RMS. Its something you can't just look up.

jda123

The lack of lows is the signal that you are using - it falls off under 50 or 60 hz probably around -12db/oct (estimating/guessing, not measured). When you get the 3sixty hooked up and can send the flat low end-signal to them, they will get low.

Even in a 1 cubic foot box, they should sound decently good and get loud enough to make you have to get out of the car, or turn them down, after a small period of time.

You cannot put too much wattage to them with that PDX amp... even in that box. They might sound peaky, but they will take the power. I have seen people burp these things with 1000W apiece... but don't do that... keep it under 600-700 apiece, so you 500w is fine.

...just keep that amp from distorting.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Gotcha

So the stock pre-amp signal still falls off a table around 50hz?? I'm glad i'll be able to flatten the signal all out and adjust db's where I need to to get that flat signal. I'm sure I'll be asking a ton of questions when this thing comes in haha

I hate cars

What sub is it, I'll be glad to model it for you. You should have an excursion tab unless you have one of the older versions. I keep increasing the signal until it hits xmax. I know that in my case I can only feed them 150w at 20hz but the full 500 by 34hz. Excursion gets huge the lower the frequency goes. At 500w and 60hz they're only pushing a few mm of excursion.

I'll model the xmax and xmech if you want.

I hate cars

The box is a high pass filter so it will cut the low end significantly at some point. I used a cheap LOC and I still had 10hz material making it's way to the subs in the IB setup. You might lose some voltage on the really low stuff but I can't imagine a LOC cutting the signal completely. I could easily drive my subs to xmax on a 10hz tone with a LOC. Mine did improve when I removed the LOC but it wasn't a huge difference. I know all are not created equal but I was using a $10 Interfire.

When I had the same setup as you with about the same sized box, it was peaky and boomy. It would actually miss certain notes like the 27hz tone in "put on". I had to run the full 1,300 headlight dimming watts to them and after the box swap I turned the gains down. If I were in your shoes I would not hesitate to go even larger on the box if you have the space. The best they sounded was in IB and that's practically a 15.5 cubic foot box. Your power requirements on the really low stuff will decrease the larger you go with the box.

geekybiker

Its a Dayton dcs255-4

Plots I have in winisd are
gain
phase
spl
group delay

I have .44 which is the latest according to the site.

geekybiker

Nevermind. I fond winisd pro that does it. Entering a speaker is a PITA, but Looks like I hit xmax at 50hz with the power I have available.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Yeah I think I'm going to order that sealed box. It's 3.06 total (1.53 per side for you mathematically challenged people lol). It's $70. Another option I found was a ships that can build a ported box to whatever specs I want for $150-175. I don't know if it's worth spending $100 more for a little more output but larger box. I don't like that hollow sound you can get with sealed in the 60hz+ though. IHC....did you get that hollow sound or know what I'm talking about??

I hate cars

Yeah, the larger box will nearly eliminate it and the use of polyfill will help even more. I ran mine as high as 100hz for a short period of time and had no issues with the ringing. My honest opinion is you can't go too large on the box with these subs but you will have to watch excursion a little closer with the large box.

I learned to really like ported boxes. Xmax at tuning is practically nothing. I'll model one in a second but if you tune it for 30hz and put 500w, you'll likely only be getting 3-4mm excursion with a ton of output and you know the advantages of less excursion. The only issue with ported is you need a processor or eq to cut some of the low end. If you tune them low and eq out some of the low end, you will have a very nice SQ system that will go very loud too. The two 12W6s should be louder than just about any dual 15" setup in a sealed box. The other option is to go ported and use only one of the subs. A single sub in a good ported setup will be just about as loud as the two in a sealed setup.

geekybiker

I modeled mine ported this afternoon. If I could tune to 35hz I would be in heaven, but the port length is insane. Can you really have a port tuned to a low frequency without a stupid long box?

eggyhustles

Cabin gain would help, but 35 is kinda high...

I hate cars

A low tune will give overall better SQ but will need eq.

I hate cars

If I remember right, a smaller diameter port can be shorter and retain the same tuning but it has to be big enough to not make noise or become a restriction. Check out JL's HO box for a cool design that helps to hide the port length. I remember seeing some vortex style twisted port that gives a ton of effective length in a small actual length.

geekybiker

Its a 10" sub. What do you expect? Its partially due to the fact that it helps avoid xmax issues as well.

I hate cars

Excursion will be lowest at tuning frequency. You want it tuned low enough so you don't go under the tuning frequency or excursion will get out of control.

jda123

Weren't you using the pre-amp front signal > LOC > line driver > MS8 > amps?

He is going post-amp sub signal > LOC > amp.

The stock sub signal will not go much below 30 - 20 is a no-go, but I did not have tones at 29, 28, 27, etc. Plus, it falls at off under 50hz, or so. ...so it sucks even before the LOC.

The MS8 was the savior here likely flattening out most of the damage that the LOC was causing in the IHC setup. Also, the preamp front signal does not drop off like the sub channel signal does - it is mostly flat.

Once Monkey goes with the 3sixty and uses the front signal, then a lot of these issues should disappear.

These experiences don't appear to be apples to apples to me, but will head that way when the processor arrives. I am likely wrong though.

Get the new box. It will help. I don't think that the current box is the culprit for all of your issues (signal), but it is for some... so fix it right.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Recently my subs are connected pre-amp with RCA's into PDX. I'm assuming it's just the extremely low level signal that's causing them to not hit nearly as hard, low, etc b/c the post-amp sounded much better at the same gain level or even slightly lower. Once I get the 3sixty.2 in there, I can fix that thank god.

The one thing that just caught me off guard was that you said "once I go with the front signal then these issues should disappear". Do you mean I should use the full range front signal for my sub channel also?...or is that even possible?? Just making sure. I thought I just need to run the stock (pre-amp) wires for FR, FL, and Sub to the rear to the 3sixty.2, correct?? This way I can retain the "sub" control on the Nav.

jda123

That sub signal still drops off. It is about half shitty even without the LOC. It is usable, but not great.

I would use the front signal for everything coming out of the 3sixty and use the RF knob if you want to adjust the bass while driving, if you need to. The front signal is such better quality.

geekybiker

Do you know if the bass if effected on the front channel for volumes over 30? I know that they nerf the bass at higher volumes, just not sure of specific channels. Think its worth it to sum the sub and front channels? Anything on the sub we're missing in front?

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

I'm a little confused when it comes to hooking up the 3sixty.2, amp and then making it all active. The 3sixty.2 has Front, Rear, Center, Sub speaker inputs so will I take the FR and FL into the "Front"...and what to do with the sub if it's being run with the fronts??

Then you have RCA's out of the 3sixty.2 and into the amp(s). So there's only a FL and FR on the 3sixty.2 output. Do you just connect that into the amp, turn the MB Q4.150 crossovers all the way down and then the software will take off that? I assume you still use the gains on the MB and PDX but not the x-overs.

Also, if you're running 1 RCA cable from the 3sixty.2 output to the MB amp, does the 3sixty.2 know to separate it into 4 channels for tweeters and mids?? Sorry..these might be stupid questions but I just want to be ready to go and have it all figured out so I'm not stalling while putting it in.