why do you have it low passed at 15hz?

 

Not sure, just haven't turned it off yet. Doesn't really matter with a sealed box anyways. I guess my mind has been elsewhere with school and trying to figure out WTF is going on with my setup.

 

ofcourse it matters

It should be low passed much higher. unless you're talking about the sub sonic filter which is completely different

 

Lol yeah good catch...subsonic @ 15hz. Not low pass

 

That box is too small for those subs. Enclosure is everything for a sub. I didn't like the way mine sounded until they got 1.5' each. They will go very deep and sound very good with the right enclosure. When I first got mine I wanted to sell them the same day until I tried a different enclosure. You could always try both of them IB, I promise you will be blown away by the sound.

In my IB setup, they play to 70hz well. In the other enclosures, they would play to 100hz while still sounding good.

You have them in a smaller than recommended box and the recommended box is too small.

This sub is an extremely quiet sub. I can run a 10hz test tone that you can barely hear with a ton of excursion and the sub itself is silent. If you're hearing noises from them, something is wrong. If you can push down and it slowly returns it's an air leak for sure. It should be very hard to push down and return instantly to position.

You will love these subs once you get everything straightened out.

 

I'll do a different box then. 1.5 per sub sealed. Any location on plans for a box that will yield me 1.5 cu.ft. per sub?? I've got all the stuff from my ported box left over, so I'm sure I could build a sturdy 3/4" MDF box for about $40. Should I go with 1" MDF with these subs sealed?

Also! Is it better to do separate chambers or just build a rectangle? Never knew the answer to that and I'm sure they're might be a slight difference. Who knows though. I'm sure I'll try to build/buy a new box before I tried them IB. I was so pissed off about all this that I put them on craigslist for $500 w/ box (only paid $280) and I've got a guy wanting to look at them. Kinda tempting to think I could sell them and buy 2 12" FI q's, etc haha.

 

...I ask a lot of questions. Thanks guys!

 

I honestly think you will be happier with the W6s. I've never heard the FIq so I'm basing this solely on reviews I've read but that sub doesn't seem to be real popular for SQ on a couple forums.

Mine had exactly the sound you describe at first. I almost sold mine in the first month too. To be honest, I thought they sounded better in a ported box tuned to 32hz over the sealed box. You might as well experiment with a larger sealed, it's so cheap and easy to make. Which way do you have the subs facing? The TL has been difficult for me. I was never quite satisfied with the subs in the trunk. They sounded great in the GN in the trunk. In fact, I've never liked anyone's system even the high end systems with the subs in the trunk. The best one I've heard to date is Neel's two 15"IDQs infinite baffle. I honestly think my current setup sounds just as good but his would blow mine away in SPL. It might just be personal preference but I've never heard one besides the bandpass, and the couple IB setups that had the detail in the bass, especially past 40hz.

Most people say to run separate chambers. Plus it adds a brace for the box. I don't know the reason why one would sound different than the other but I've always wondered what would happen if one sub lost power in a single chamber. Would the sub kill itself with excursion?

 

Dude, ditch the sealed and go ported or 4th order

the fi'q are more spl than sq, but you can get a flat response out of them. i'll take an exodus shiva over them tho

 

Really? Because I'd take the Q's any day of the week. Not over Exodus, but definitely an option. Scott knows how to make subs imo.


Make your own box plans, its not hard. 1728 cubic inches per cubic foot. Find one measurement that fits the car the best, then the second one, then solve for the third. Mess with it until you get it where you want it. Polystuff the box

 

Maybe I'll try to cut my ported box for 12's. Not sure how I'm going to do it yet, but I'll figure it out. I can add a little polyfill to the ported box and see how she sounds.

 

Update:

I took the sub that was making the slight weird "huffing" sound out of the the box and left the other one in. They are sealed separately so it had no real effect. I played the one I thought was messed up IB for a few songs and it didn't make the sound I've been hearing it make while its IN the box. BUT!! when I put my ear next to the magnet, I can hear a bit of what I think it voice coil slap or rubbing together. I'm not sure if this is completely normal sound, and I'm also not sure what I'm hearing IS voice coil problems. I CAN NOT hear it when I've got the sub playing IB and I'm right above it like 5" (looking down at it).

When pressing the sub in a few seconds ago, before I took it out, I could hear the air now coming through the box. It's where the 2 boards meet at right above the right sub. I've sealed it very well and will put the sub back into the box in about an hour or so.

Can anyone tell me or have a good video representation of what voice coil rub/slap sounds like?? I can press down a good bit on the sub without hearing anything, but at one point, pretty far down actually, it starts to make a rubbing sound

 

Are you pressing perfectly in the center of the sub? I usually can't press perfectly enough and I always make it rub so I don't do it anymore. The voice coil rub I've heard (and I haven't heard many) sounds like a scratchy sound. That was on a Cerwin Vega original Stroker and it was 10 years ago.

I really doubt it's the sub. Now that you have it out, cut a rough baffle that will fit behind the seats, mount the sub on it and try it out to get an idea of how it will sound IB. With the air leaks it won't have much power but the overall sound will be close. I think if you hear it like this it will give you the motivation to do it. I know I suggest this too much but it just sounds so good and I'm jealous because I sold mine. This is what I should have done.

 

I'm in college with no garage or anything right now so I don't have the tools to make a baffle at the moment. I'll be going home next weekend and while I'm home I'll be doing the pressure switches and possibly,hopefully the ATF fluid. Might even do the brake pads...who knows! haha. Maybe I'll make an MDF baffle when I go home. How did you go about making the template for the trunk? How far away from the seats did you make it? And how did you secure it and seal it?


I'm still not getting the sub to bounce back immediately when I push in. The one in the box I'm talking about. Is that side also possibly leaking??

 

I screwed the baffle to the two diagonal braces (behind the braces) behind the seat. The only problem with that is the sub would hit on the seat at high volumes. I would build a baffle that roughly follows the shape of the rear behind the seat. Cut a 14" or 15" square out of it in the center and screw another piece of MDF behind it with the speaker cutout. This will give you 3/4" clearance between the sub and rear seat. It's what I should have done but mine was only supposed to be temporary.

You don't have to worry about sealing right away until you see if you like it. I would try and get the big holes like the stock sub hole and the two holes under the mids. You don't have to go crazy right away, you could even glue some thin MDF over them for now. It just won't be as loud with the leaks.

Sounds like you're going to have a busy weekend. I really miss college.
That's the only explanation. The sub should come back to rest quicker than you can move your hand.

 

Well, good news. It was the box. I sealed it off completely this time all the way around every edge. The sub no longer makes that sound and the output has gone up quite a bit. Hits harder and goes lower now...which is expected when you have a leak. Now i'll just wait until I get my RK6's in, order some deadener (still up in the air about what to get and how much) and start figuring out how to do the install.


About the speaker install, I know most of you have aftermarket components in. I was wondering if yours fit right in or if you had to do some cutting. I kinda figured I might have to do some cutting, size wise, to get the RK6's to fit. I'm sure I'll also need an MDF 6.5" baffle to move them out a bit. Hopefully I'm able to get them to fit and still retain the factory look. If anyone has a pic to throw up real quick of our door(s) without any deadener, etc so I can see what I'll be working with, that'd be great. I'm about to search for some now. Has anyone used speaker baffles? I know they help rigidity, but I'm sure I might need them as the RK6's are like 2.75" deep.

Also, what should I do about deadener? And how many sq.ft. for both doors and trunk?

 

Situation. I have an adjustable LOC (PAC sni-35), the gain on the amp, and the sub and bass controls on the nav. How should I fine tune this??

At the moment, LOC is about 2/5ths to 1/2 the way up, gain on amp is the same way, and everything on my nav is at 0.

 

Another question, should I run active with my PDX 4.100 (100x4) or passive/bridged (200x2)?? I think the RK6's are pretty power hungry so the 200 per side might be better for them. Or would the fine tuneability? of an active setup be better?

 

Use the crossovers and bridge the amp. If/when you get a processor, then you can split 'em back up. You can always try them active, but there aren't many components that sound good without the minimal EQing of the crossover.

If you ended up sealed, put the box in the back and point them forward. ...or on the side and point them sideways. I didn't like sealed pointed backwards in our car - sounded like shit to me... but I do like it in many other cars. In a SUV or hatch, pointed down is nice, but I hated this in my Acura too.

I would not deaden my trunk again. The weight is not worth the few times that I get loud enough to care - you can always do it later, but it is nearly impossible to take off. Put 4 screws in the license plate, take the trunk counterweight out and fix the rear deck rattles and you will get 80-90% of the issues. 4 square feet is enough to do each door - 8 sf total. I used some hushmat that I had from a while back. Stuck fine, but I did double up around the 6.5 since it is kinda thin. Stay away from the asphalt shit.

 

That was my thought also. 100rms on those probably isn't enough. Hopefully 200 is enough to get them moving and have them mesh well with the w6's.

As far as the sub box, I've got it about 8" away from the rear seats with the subs facing the cabin. I feel that I get the best punch with it this way. Facing them towards the trunk helps the bass fill the car and makes it harder to ID where the bass is from (which is ideally what you want) but I like the sound the way it is so far. I wish I could get ahold of that bandpass box or a ported box design where the port goes into the the ski-pass. I'd be all over building something like that. I don't have the software capabilities though since I'm on a Mac. Feel free to throw out blueprints anyone haha

I understand where you're coming from on the trunk deadening. While I've got music on, I've stuck my head in the ski-pass and listened to see where rattles were coming from. I've got a few right up next to the seats, but the main one is from the rear deck hitting the rear windshield. I've got a small microfiber towel wedged in between there now and it's gone...but I'd like to clean that up a little haha. Looks like I'll go with about 40-50 CLD tiles. I like that the foil is thicker on the CLD tiles rather than the Damp. Pro. Should be plenty to do the doors and various trunk and trunk lid parts. If not, I'll order a few more and do them later. I dont have too many crazy rattles yet, mainly just worried about the doors with the RK6's.


Any idea on what to do for the adjustment on the LOC? I can't find anything about how to properly adjust an LOC or what exactly it's for.

 

After some reading, I think I'm going about deadening all wrong. Instead of putting a ton of CLD tiles on the doors and trunk, I'm going to do about 25-35% of the 2 doors in CLD tiles, then put the Mass Loaded Vinyl over the whole door. Then use the rest of the CLD tiles in the trunk and rear deck (from the underside most likely since taking out the backseat looks to be a PITA). I'm going to try to call Don from SDS tomorrow and see what he thinks about deadening for the Acura TL doors, but like JDA and others on other forums have said, 4-8 sqft per door is enough. So I'm looking to do about 30-40 tiles for deadening, and then I'm going to put MLV over the 2 front doors.


How much room do we have for speakers in our cars, and will deadener and the MLV fit behind the panel? I'd like to keep it factory looking. I'm sure I need to buy MDF rings for the RK6's but I'm not sure how thick? 1"...3/4"? I don't have the time during the week to remove the panel and look and I'd like to try to do it this weekend if possible. Can anyone chime in with how thick of a baffle they used? The RK6's are roughly 2.75" deep. There is a few people over at DIYMA that are saying they bought a 3/4" MDF ring on ebay and they wont even fit over the magnet haha. The driver paperwork claims 146.4mm ID, which comes to 5.764". The "large" rings are just a bit shy at 5.625". Oh boy...haha

 

You are gonna have to cut metal on the doors. A rotozip with a metal bit will go through it nicely - just clean up the metal shavings really well. There are a few guys on ebay who will CNC rings to your specs on demand - find one of them or make your own. 3/4" would be fine.

 

Just received my Massive Audio RK6 6.5" component set from a member named DAT on www.diyma.com. Right out of the box, the quality of everything looks to be very nice. The mids are beefy as hell weighing a over 5lbs on my scale. I hope the PDX 100.4 bridged will get these moving. I really can't wait to order some deadener and get these guys in there. If I can't find time to do it this weekend...I might just have to have a local, very reputable shop do the work. Anyways, on to the pics...










Taken from another site/review:
RK6 & CK6


Peerless 830883/RK6/CK6

 

Ordered! Rings are on their way too. This will be fun

26 CLD Tiles @ 2.45 = $63.70
1 54"X41" sheet MLV @ 29.62 = 29.62
2 sheets 1/8" CCF @ 14.95 = 29.90
3 Velcro Strips, adh. 2 sides, 2-pack @ 3.25 = 9.75
1 8 oz can HH-66 Vinyl Contact Cement @ 8.50 = 8.50

Sub Total: $141.47
Shipping: 28.01
Total: $169.48

 

I completely forgot, I'll send you pics of the bandpass when I get home. I took the pictures and downloaded them but forgot to send them to you. Really all you need is to remember 1.29 and 1.8 cubic feet. I'm sure I can find the port size but those two dimensions will get you started. The sealed portion is barely big enough to get both subs in. Mine were touching in the center and right at the outside edges. The magnets were maybe half an inch from the bottom. Basically as small as it could possibly be to fit the two subs in. I think if you make the sealed portion larger it will give it more bottom end. However, this had some of the tightest, quickest hitting bass I've ever heard and even at very loud levels, the subs were barely moving.

This thing is pretty big but overall it's just a hair over 3 cubes, pretty much the same as the optimal sealed box and smaller than the ported.

 

Thanks man. I'd be able to build it or have it built if I don't have the time but the rough dimensions would be the best. I remember you telling me the it was 1.3sealed and 1.8ported but I don't know how to put that into dimensions that I can see and get MDF cut haha. Any help would be great appreciated!

 

I thought I had more pictures, in fact I know I do on the camera. Here are the two I have on the computer. This is with the top off of the box. You can see the 1.29' box inside of the 1.8 box. The subs were facing up when they were in the car and of course, you could not see the subs unless you looked inside the port. They were supposed to face forward towards the front of the car and on the other miracle box of Jason's, you could see the subs pretty well when looking through the port. I built mine and then realized it wouldn't fit in the trunk so I flipped it on it's side, put the port on the new "side" and bought a piece of MDF to replace the side that originally had the port. Or basically I had to flip it 90 degrees so that it would slide up to the rear seats. This is after sitting outside for a while so there's crap in it.

 

What is the loss percentage of a 226 square inches of subs driving going through a 40 square inch port (guessing at 5x9" by looking)? It is linear at 40/226 or 17%? More? Less? If it is linear, then wouldn't a single 12 produce the same output from the port since you are still under 100%?

Is the miracle part the sound and lack of rattles?

 

Don't know the loss if any. All I know is it was very loud off of very little power. In fact I had to turn the gains waaaay down over the ported box to avoid drowning out the mids. It played up to 90hz and sounded great doing it. Bass was quick and tight, and blended very easily with the front. There was practically no excursion even at crazy SPL. I had the roof flexing like crazy yet the excursion was just a few mm each way. No rattles with no dynamat both in the trunk and the rear deck. I had rattles at the upper console by the windshield but not the normal problem areas with the TL. If it wasn't for the space and weight, I would never have switched. It hit the lows as good as the sealed, not as good as the ported. It would get down to 30hz but it was starting to roll off pretty well.

This was easily the most musical setup I've ever had and it just required so little power. I ran it off of the 220watt AB amp for a short time and it was plenty power. You can check out CSWBiggs build for more details and videos.

 

Interesting! Thanks IHC. For now I'm going to throw them in my 3cuft. ported box and see how they sound. I know most say that JL's specs are a little small, and the 12w6 calls for 1.5 ported. Should/Can I stuff my ported box with polyfill (I'll actually spray some glue along sides and line the box with it so it doesn't come flying out of the port)? Would this be beneficial and bring me back to around 3cuft after sub displacement?

I just feel like I've got to get this 1.1cuft sealed box out fast. I've already got ported so I'll try it, and build a sealed while I try the ported. Then I can audition both and see which I like. The sealed now sounds pretty shitty on higher hz frequencies. Almost sounds like you can "hear" the box resonating and making the hollow sound. I want warm, smooth, quick-hitting bass. It hits decent, goes somewhat low (not really lol), but I can't listen to any rock b/c it sounds shitty. Rap/Electronic sounds decent unless its about 60+hz.

I've got finals next week, then a week off (work), then I go to a summer course for 5-weeks in Colorado...so this box work might have to be done when I get back. I'm definitely getting the CLD Tiles/CCF/MLV, RK6's, and PDX 4.100 in before I leave though. Need something for that 11 hour road trip!

 

Most of what you describe are very typical of sealed setups. There has to be loss - an assumed 40 square inches of port displacement cannot flow 226 square inches of driver displacement. I wonder how this miracle box would compare to a sealed 12 mounted to the back seat - 113 square inches of displacement, no rattles and all of the sound benefits of a sealed box. My guess is that the single 12 would crush it by a factor of 2 and be a LOT smaller.

 

I've had the same subs in a sealed 1.2 box for each chamber, a 1.6 box for each sub, mounted against the seat facing forward, facing toward the rear, at the rear of the trunk facing forward and backward. Also had it ported facing just about every direction. There's just no comparison in output, the bandpass blows it away. All setups were run on the same amp, same subs obviously. The first time I turned the bandpass on, I had the gains still set for the old box with the same subs. Without touching anything it was MUCH louder. I believe Jason said it has 8+db worth of gain over a sealed box and a flat response from 40hz to 90hz. The port size is not an issue at all. No noise either.

 

Hole Cut





Sub Removed


Sorry, I forgot to get pics with the MLV/CCF on the door but I'll be removing the panel shortly so I'll take a pic of that to show what it's like.

Initial Impressions:
Fuck you Alpine PDX-4.100

My tweets have quite a bit of static coming through and is audible without any music on. Unacceptable, so it is being sold. It sounds like white noise and I believe it's just the good ol' Alpine PDX noise issue and not my wiring, etc. About the RK6's....they are LOUD!! I'm not quite sure how I feel about them yet to be honest. The tweeter overpowers the mids, and I'm fully deadened and have MLV and CCF. If you're looking for components that will scream then these are it. When I turn off my sub, the mids don't seem to have the authority that I thought they would. I'm not sure if it's the amp or what, but with my setup from Sound Deadener Showdown, they should wang!

I can say that my subs sound much better now. I can't wait to get them in the 1.5 cubes box when I return in late June from my 5 week course in Colorado. The mid's have added depth and it's not as obvious now that the subs are "behind" me, instead they feel like the bass is all around. Weird that it seems to mesh well like this but the mids seem to be a bit lacking with the subs off. I honestly think the tweets are a tad to forward for my listening. I've become accustomed to a warm sound that is laid back, yet detailed with my Home Audio setup. The tweets are as bright as most components but I think their downfall is how much louder they are compared to the mids. Not sure how to explain this really. I'll let them break in a bit more and see if they calm down and open up. Soundstage seems wide and centered pretty well. Detail is definitely there but the high highs can be a bit piercing. I wish some of you all that had nice systems lived closer so I could hear yours and vise versa, to get your opinion, etc.

I tapped into the signal "pre-amp" (black,white, green, blue I believe) for the RF and LF. I'm not using an LOC but I don't think that's what's giving me the static. The static in the tweets was there without the power and ground hooked up. Aka..RCA's, which is the problem with these amps. Just my luck!! Any idea's for a good 2-channel amp that around 200-250/per??

The deadener is definitely doing its job though!! I don't have a single rattle at full volume. Word of advice though, if you're doing deadener, CCF and MLV....good luck getting the door panel back on with those short clips. I had to do a bit of "modification" to get the panel back on. Hats of to Don at SDS though for making a great product. I ended up using 30 CLD Tiles and covered the front doors (inner and outer panels), lower rear deck, upper rear deck, frame around rear seat, trunk (inner and outer), and a few places within the trunk. It was PLENTY for me and should be for most people. $170 for a full sound deadening....do it!

 

So you ended up covering all of the holes in the door?

The crossover does not have a -3, -6, or whatever db setting? Even with a jumper? I could not find a pic of one online. Can you post a closeup? ...and another one with the cover off?

Did you try the ground loop isolator that you had? Maybe you didn't have one and I am thinking of somebody else.

What is your budget for an amp?

Look for a used JL 300/2 or 300/4. It will be plenty of power, are a really nice plug-and-play amp and it will be cleaner than the comps are. Should be around 180w or so, which you will likely never come close to as long as you use the crossovers. My neighbor bought a new MB Quart - it is a good amp for a cheap amp IMO... did more than rated power and was pretty clean. I have not used one though. That is all that comes to mind at the moment, sorry... there are plenty more.

 

sucks about the pdx

Pick this up
http://cgi.ebay.com/SOUNDSTREAM-RUB4...item5adf959cd2

250 x 2 for $109.

If you need sounding a lil smaller
http://cgi.ebay.com/SOUNDSTREAM-STL4...item4aa97af408

250 x 2 for $179

33 over, but pretty damn good
http://cgi.ebay.com/KENWOOD-EXCELON-...item4159a30b57

I believe this one does around 320-350 bridged

 

Looks like the crossover is a static -6 db. That sucks... sorry man. I hope that I am reading this wrong.

 

Yeah all the holes, the whole door panel actually, is fully covered by the CCF and thick/heavy MLV. I'm positive the x-over is static with no db changes. I havent tried the ground loop yet, I will tomorrow, though I think the amp is just shit. I've been looking at the new MB Quart Onyx amps too. That 4.80 looks powerful. I'll see what I can find..

 

About 3-4 hours listening time now and the tweets seems like they're starting to relax a small bit. Still a little forward for my liking. I don't think they're bright or harsh at most frequencies, just too loud compared to the mids/subs. My gain is a little more than 1/3 and the loudness of these on "5" is as loud as stock components on about 12-13. Like I said, I won't make my final judgement until I try the ground loop isolater (if it works) or get a new amp as the static still comes through slightly when playing music. There's no alt. whine, etc..so I'm guessing it's the awesome noise floor from the PDX.

How do the mid's sound in you all's cars? Say if you turn off the sub and just let the fronts play, can you feel the bass from your mids or do you just hear it? I understand that feeling bass from mids would be pretty low-hz and is likely not possible with a lower end component set but still. I'm wondering if the mids aren't getting enough power, or if what I'm hearing to get them to actually move some air is just distortion. Again...wish someone lived closer!

 

My components are capable of enjoyable listening without the sub. I keep mine above 80-90hz, for right now. I can feel the bass from my mids, but not that much... I do run quite a bit of wattage to them and they are run active. They are just for midbass, not for bass.

Not gonna be much that you can do if you are using the xovers.

Give those a little while to break in, if they are new.

I guess that you need to turn the treble down and the bass up on the HU - terrible thing to do, but without better xovers, then you might be stuck. Play with this and see if you can be happy.

Does the amp make noise without the car on?

 

Yeah I've got my Treble at -1, bass at +3, and sub at 0 right now. They are crossed at about 70-75hz right now and my sub is crossed at 80hz. There is a member over at DIYMA that put a 2-ohm resistors wired in series (http://www.parts-express.com/mills-c...-resistors.cfm) and he got the sound he was looking for. Tamed down the tweeters without taking out frequencies, etc. I'll either try this or put a little felt over the tweeter, though I feel like this might just muffle the sound. I'm sure these RK6 mids will open up once I break them in, but they seem to be playing deeper every day.

The amp/tweets make no noise with the car off. Once it's turned on, they go crazy with a static/slight clicking noise. VERY annoying. I hope to hell the ground loop isolator works tonight or I'm SOL until I get back from Colorado in 5 weeks.

Edit: My passenger side door will not open from the inside haha. Guess I'll be tearing that down and finding out why. I'm assuming the wire to the handle came off, hopefully it didn't snap!! Just another damn thing..seems like this is getting to be more work than I wanted it to be. Never fails though