Trunk Monkey: Car Audio Build Thread
03-31-2011, 11:44 AM
#1
Trunk Monkey: Car Audio Build Thread
Hey guys, just a quick little tid bit about what I had and what I thought about it, then I'll get into what I'm looking at and hopefully you guys can help me pick out the best possible setup for me!
I had (sold) 2 JL 10" w3v3's in a 2.75cu.ft box tuned to 31hz off of a Kicker 400.1. All speakers are stock. Now, the problem was I thought it didnt give enough punch and the JL's just hit bottomed out to early and didn't give that authoritative punch I was looking for in rock/electronic/etc. Looked like they had met their power match off like 300 watts
I sold the JL's and am in the process of selling the amp and possibly the box. Selling the box depends on if I go with 2 10" setup or 1 12" setup.
Possible Setups: 1 gets louder and probably punches harder...but likely more expensive for the same SQ as 1 12"
1. 2 10" subs in my 2.75c.ft. box @ 31hz
2. 1 12" sub and build a box to spec (@ around 28-32hz)
I'm looking for an SQ to SQL system as I don't need to be heard from a mile away. I would like it to sound very natural and warm inside, but still detailed. I've been into car audio for many years and I've just started researching some of the new players and some of the new products out these past few years. Here is what I've come up with and PLEASE! let me know what you think or if you have experience with any of these so I can get your opinion.
Subs:
- Sundown SA (I've heard its more SPL to SQL but it gets great reviews)
- SSA Dcon
- Alpine Type-R (the new line)
- 2 12" JL w6v2 (Local sale - $300 w/ sealed box... very tempting)
- 2 10" RE SEx (local sale - $200 w/ sealed box)
- TC Sounds EPIC
- DC Sounds lvl 3
- Image Dynamics IDQ
- others..
Components:
- Image Dynamics ctx65
- Hybrid Audio Imagine
- Alpine SPX-17REF
- Hertz ESK
- Morel
- Focal 165A1
- others..
Sub amp and Component amp will be picked up later. Probably craigslist for component amp. I'd like to stay around $200-250 for components and $300-350 for sub(s). I'm thinking those w6's might yield me the best sq but I'd need to build a new box b/c I'm not sure if they'd get decently loud in a sealed box. Any help?
I had (sold) 2 JL 10" w3v3's in a 2.75cu.ft box tuned to 31hz off of a Kicker 400.1. All speakers are stock. Now, the problem was I thought it didnt give enough punch and the JL's just hit bottomed out to early and didn't give that authoritative punch I was looking for in rock/electronic/etc. Looked like they had met their power match off like 300 watts
I sold the JL's and am in the process of selling the amp and possibly the box. Selling the box depends on if I go with 2 10" setup or 1 12" setup. Possible Setups: 1 gets louder and probably punches harder...but likely more expensive for the same SQ as 1 12"
1. 2 10" subs in my 2.75c.ft. box @ 31hz
2. 1 12" sub and build a box to spec (@ around 28-32hz)
I'm looking for an SQ to SQL system as I don't need to be heard from a mile away. I would like it to sound very natural and warm inside, but still detailed. I've been into car audio for many years and I've just started researching some of the new players and some of the new products out these past few years. Here is what I've come up with and PLEASE! let me know what you think or if you have experience with any of these so I can get your opinion.
Subs:
- Sundown SA (I've heard its more SPL to SQL but it gets great reviews)
- SSA Dcon
- Alpine Type-R (the new line)
- 2 12" JL w6v2 (Local sale - $300 w/ sealed box... very tempting)
- 2 10" RE SEx (local sale - $200 w/ sealed box)
- TC Sounds EPIC
- DC Sounds lvl 3
- Image Dynamics IDQ
- others..
Components:
- Image Dynamics ctx65
- Hybrid Audio Imagine
- Alpine SPX-17REF
- Hertz ESK
- Morel
- Focal 165A1
- others..
Sub amp and Component amp will be picked up later. Probably craigslist for component amp. I'd like to stay around $200-250 for components and $300-350 for sub(s). I'm thinking those w6's might yield me the best sq but I'd need to build a new box b/c I'm not sure if they'd get decently loud in a sealed box. Any help?
03-31-2011, 01:04 PM
#3
I've PM'd biggs and IHC about that box design before but IHC didn't want to give it up b/c it was bigg's design I believe, which is fine and respectable. Hopefully someone has the plans or can give the dimensions/rough sketch.
Eggy- Do you think those 12 w6's for $300 would be the best buy? I hear people talk about the w6's being way overpriced (new) but one of the better SQ/SQL drivers. I'd love to get an IDmax but I don't want to drop $450-500 for it!! The Fi Q looks very nice too but if I went with 2 10's it would come out to around $450.
The thought always crosses my mind, will I even be able to tell the difference between a couple of the new type-r's that seem to be getting good reviews and some w6's, id Q, fi q, etc. I've been without subs for 2 days now and I can really see how bad the midbass is from our factory components. I find them to be a tad harsh on the upper end too. It seems the ID ctx is the no-brainer for a set under $200, but would it be worth it to step up $50ish to the HAT Imagine's, Alpine's (I hear they have a great warm, detailed sound w/ midbass), etc.
Hopefully IHC and/or cswbiggs will post up in here with the plans for that box. I'd like to check it out and see if I couldn't build it myself.
Eggy- Do you think those 12 w6's for $300 would be the best buy? I hear people talk about the w6's being way overpriced (new) but one of the better SQ/SQL drivers. I'd love to get an IDmax but I don't want to drop $450-500 for it!! The Fi Q looks very nice too but if I went with 2 10's it would come out to around $450.
The thought always crosses my mind, will I even be able to tell the difference between a couple of the new type-r's that seem to be getting good reviews and some w6's, id Q, fi q, etc. I've been without subs for 2 days now and I can really see how bad the midbass is from our factory components. I find them to be a tad harsh on the upper end too. It seems the ID ctx is the no-brainer for a set under $200, but would it be worth it to step up $50ish to the HAT Imagine's, Alpine's (I hear they have a great warm, detailed sound w/ midbass), etc.
Hopefully IHC and/or cswbiggs will post up in here with the plans for that box. I'd like to check it out and see if I couldn't build it myself.
03-31-2011, 01:13 PM
#4
Drifting
300 each or for the pair? if for the pair, that's a steal. If it's 300 per, there are way more superior drivers on the market.
If it were me, i'd get 2 of the sa-10's in a 4th order and spend as much as i can on components. The id's are nice, but they are entry level comps and you'll probably want more in a year or 2.
Or 1 15" ssa xcon sealed
If it were me, i'd get 2 of the sa-10's in a 4th order and spend as much as i can on components. The id's are nice, but they are entry level comps and you'll probably want more in a year or 2.
Or 1 15" ssa xcon sealed
Last edited by eggyhustles; 03-31-2011 at 01:23 PM.
03-31-2011, 01:42 PM
#5
Yeah he's asking $350 for the pair..with the sealed box they're in. I figure I'd go have a look and flaunt like $250 cash in front of him, see if he budges. Then $275, then $300 lol.
Anyways, any component recommendations in the $250 range? I need to research a cheap alternative to second skin/dynamat too! Going to try to lay down a layer on each door and the trunk. I've heard about peel n' seal from Lowes/Home Depot and a few other products that are cheap and damn close to dynamat/rammat.
Anyways, any component recommendations in the $250 range? I need to research a cheap alternative to second skin/dynamat too! Going to try to lay down a layer on each door and the trunk. I've heard about peel n' seal from Lowes/Home Depot and a few other products that are cheap and damn close to dynamat/rammat.
03-31-2011, 01:45 PM
#6
Drifting
350 for the pair is a good deal depending on how much power you have. 350 would get u an xcon which would do what u want plus more. The smartest thing to do is spend the least on the sub and the most on the comps. The subs are only gonna play .004% of the frequency range. What was your total budget for the new setup? For 250, i'd get the hertz esk or the massive ck 6.
Last edited by eggyhustles; 03-31-2011 at 01:54 PM.
03-31-2011, 03:10 PM
#7
Budget:
Sub(s): I'd like to keep my box is possible just b/c I don't feel like building another but if I have to then whatever. For sub(s) I'd like to stay around 300-350. I just needed a sub that will hit harder, likely b/c those w3's can't take much power to begin with. I keep saying I might just get a few $125 subs, like the type-r's, dcons, etc..but I don't want to NOT be happy and only save 50-100 bucks.
Components: $250ish
Component Amp: I'll just pick one up off craigslist unless I can find a new one that will drive the comps that's around $100ish
Sub Amp: Not sure about this one...depends on the sub
For those 2 12" w6's, I'd have to build a new box b/c I doubt my 2.7 cu.ft is large enough. It can definitely fit the 12's, I just don't think that's enough volume for the w6's...even if I stuffed with about 2 bags of polyfill. I dunno...maybe someone with w6's will chime in
Sub(s): I'd like to keep my box is possible just b/c I don't feel like building another but if I have to then whatever. For sub(s) I'd like to stay around 300-350. I just needed a sub that will hit harder, likely b/c those w3's can't take much power to begin with. I keep saying I might just get a few $125 subs, like the type-r's, dcons, etc..but I don't want to NOT be happy and only save 50-100 bucks.
Components: $250ish
Component Amp: I'll just pick one up off craigslist unless I can find a new one that will drive the comps that's around $100ish
Sub Amp: Not sure about this one...depends on the sub
For those 2 12" w6's, I'd have to build a new box b/c I doubt my 2.7 cu.ft is large enough. It can definitely fit the 12's, I just don't think that's enough volume for the w6's...even if I stuffed with about 2 bags of polyfill. I dunno...maybe someone with w6's will chime in
Last edited by Trunk Monkey; 03-31-2011 at 03:18 PM.
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03-31-2011, 03:52 PM
#9
Dogmatic Dinosaur
A single 12 without a great big wooden box plugging up the deck and rear seat passage is more than the TL needs if you aren't looking to compete or blow people away outside of the car. You can rattle the dash and shake coffee out of a half-full cup (in the cup-holder) with a single 12. I think that people underestimate how much a large box cuts off the cab from the sound.
You can tell a difference in a Q, IDq, or the like, over a type R. They are crisper, smoother and not as peaky. It is easy to tell. I think that the w6 is JLs best sounding sub, but it is not a high power sub and on a different level from some of the others.
The cool thing about buying 1 sub is that you can always buy a 2nd one later if you want.
CXS65s, they are a nice upgrade over the CTX... and available in 2 ohm for more power from your amp. The focal access are just OK - Polyglass or above would be fine. ESKs are cool. No experience with the others. Look for high-quality used on a national board or something - make you dollar go further here since these are the most important.
If you go hertz or focal, then be careful... lots of fakes out there. Get the serial numbers and check them out.
I would definitely deaden you doors - 4 or 5 sheets will do. I would not deaden my trunk again - not enough of a gain. Do the regular rattle fixes.
You can tell a difference in a Q, IDq, or the like, over a type R. They are crisper, smoother and not as peaky. It is easy to tell. I think that the w6 is JLs best sounding sub, but it is not a high power sub and on a different level from some of the others.
The cool thing about buying 1 sub is that you can always buy a 2nd one later if you want.
CXS65s, they are a nice upgrade over the CTX... and available in 2 ohm for more power from your amp. The focal access are just OK - Polyglass or above would be fine. ESKs are cool. No experience with the others. Look for high-quality used on a national board or something - make you dollar go further here since these are the most important.
If you go hertz or focal, then be careful... lots of fakes out there. Get the serial numbers and check them out.
I would definitely deaden you doors - 4 or 5 sheets will do. I would not deaden my trunk again - not enough of a gain. Do the regular rattle fixes.
03-31-2011, 07:13 PM
#10
I understand where you're coming from though! Every time I try to research the Hertz ESK165 vs the ID ctx65cs, or ID vs HAT Imagines, or HAT Imagines vs ESK165...I always come up with subjective answers. I really wish I was able to hear some of these and figure out which I like but there's nothing around here, they all carry Kicker, Rockford and all those mainstream shit brands.
A single 12 without a great big wooden box plugging up the deck and rear seat passage is more than the TL needs if you aren't looking to compete or blow people away outside of the car. You can rattle the dash and shake coffee out of a half-full cup (in the cup-holder) with a single 12. I think that people underestimate how much a large box cuts off the cab from the sound.
You can tell a difference in a Q, IDq, or the like, over a type R. They are crisper, smoother and not as peaky. It is easy to tell. I think that the w6 is JLs best sounding sub, but it is not a high power sub and on a different level from some of the others.
The cool thing about buying 1 sub is that you can always buy a 2nd one later if you want.
CXS65s, they are a nice upgrade over the CTX... and available in 2 ohm for more power from your amp. The focal access are just OK - Polyglass or above would be fine. ESKs are cool. No experience with the others. Look for high-quality used on a national board or something - make you dollar go further here since these are the most important.
If you go hertz or focal, then be careful... lots of fakes out there. Get the serial numbers and check them out.
I would definitely deaden you doors - 4 or 5 sheets will do. I would not deaden my trunk again - not enough of a gain. Do the regular rattle fixes.
You can tell a difference in a Q, IDq, or the like, over a type R. They are crisper, smoother and not as peaky. It is easy to tell. I think that the w6 is JLs best sounding sub, but it is not a high power sub and on a different level from some of the others.
The cool thing about buying 1 sub is that you can always buy a 2nd one later if you want.
CXS65s, they are a nice upgrade over the CTX... and available in 2 ohm for more power from your amp. The focal access are just OK - Polyglass or above would be fine. ESKs are cool. No experience with the others. Look for high-quality used on a national board or something - make you dollar go further here since these are the most important.
If you go hertz or focal, then be careful... lots of fakes out there. Get the serial numbers and check them out.
I would definitely deaden you doors - 4 or 5 sheets will do. I would not deaden my trunk again - not enough of a gain. Do the regular rattle fixes.
Thanks for all the info! The way I look at it is: If I went with 1 12", my box would only be slightly smaller and I'd use about a $250-$300 sub. But if that's the case, why not go with those 2 12w6's for more cone area and good sq. Is my logic correct or am I missing something? It also doesn't help that I only have a few ported box plans I made years back. There's hardly any box building stuff for a Mac computer so I just have to search google to see what kind of plans I can dig up for 1 12" or 2 12's, etc.
About components, you say the ESK's are just "cool"? You not impressed by them? I won't be running an ms8 straight off the bat so I need something that will sound good w/o the proper tuning equipment.
EDIT: Just realized I said my box was 2.75 cu.ft.......It's actually 3.0cu.ft. So it'll be perfect for that w6 pair if I decided that route.
03-31-2011, 07:37 PM
#11
Drifting
w6's won't outshine the sa's in "sql"
I hate that term btw lol
To be 100% honest, the dcon nor the w6 are meant for output oriented installs. They can get loud, but that's not their purpose. same goes for the re sex, and id idq
Think about how much power you want to use then go from there.
If u want a 800w+ sub, get a ssa icon or xcon. Those would outshine and jl sub in sq or spl.
I hate that term btw lol
To be 100% honest, the dcon nor the w6 are meant for output oriented installs. They can get loud, but that's not their purpose. same goes for the re sex, and id idq
Think about how much power you want to use then go from there.
If u want a 800w+ sub, get a ssa icon or xcon. Those would outshine and jl sub in sq or spl.
03-31-2011, 08:10 PM
#12
"sql" haha. I don't like that term either but I don't know how else to say it without writing out a damn sentence about how "I want good sound quality, but to not be a puss driver that can't punch me in the back when I need it to" haha. You know what I mean eggy
Well I was just going to find an amp to power whichever sub accordingly. I've always seen on the car audio boards, that the w6's get great reviews for sq-ish? haha...setups off about 600w a piece. I don't need anything crazy loud but I'd like it to have that authority in the car that will make you jump. I see great reviews about the SA but I also see it being used off 600+w and more for spl-oriented setups. I mean if the RE SE-x woofer was a comparable driver to both of those I would scoop those up from this local guy for $200 or whatever but I hear they aren't nearly as good as the old SE's since US AMP's bought RE. I feel like I've researched the hell outta these subs but it does me no good really b/c its not in a TL, off the same amp, etc. I'm thinking 2 12" w6's would get PLENTY loud for me, as long as the sq will be there. That hard punch and be able to hit those lows off about 600w. I figure I can just find a good used amp around $200 on craigslist or new (audiopipe, audioque, hifonics, etc) that will give me 500-700 per woofer
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another question for you guys...I'm not sure if you use or have a specific box building program you like but I designed a box and just realized that Home Depot made a cut 4" shorter than I told them. In the first box below, they were supposed to cut the port that goes "into" the middle of the box 19". Instead they cut it at 15". Using the other box with the same dimensions and an 8" that came out to 40hz, that would put my box around 34hz instead of the 30-31hz I wanted.
BUT! I just found this box calculator on RE's website and when I put in the dimensions of my box (my dimensions are already put into the picture given below) it comes out to around 29.5hz. Can anyone confirm which is correct? I'm hoping the 29.5-30hz is as I want it more sq-oriented.
Well I was just going to find an amp to power whichever sub accordingly. I've always seen on the car audio boards, that the w6's get great reviews for sq-ish? haha...setups off about 600w a piece. I don't need anything crazy loud but I'd like it to have that authority in the car that will make you jump. I see great reviews about the SA but I also see it being used off 600+w and more for spl-oriented setups. I mean if the RE SE-x woofer was a comparable driver to both of those I would scoop those up from this local guy for $200 or whatever but I hear they aren't nearly as good as the old SE's since US AMP's bought RE. I feel like I've researched the hell outta these subs but it does me no good really b/c its not in a TL, off the same amp, etc. I'm thinking 2 12" w6's would get PLENTY loud for me, as long as the sq will be there. That hard punch and be able to hit those lows off about 600w. I figure I can just find a good used amp around $200 on craigslist or new (audiopipe, audioque, hifonics, etc) that will give me 500-700 per woofer
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another question for you guys...I'm not sure if you use or have a specific box building program you like but I designed a box and just realized that Home Depot made a cut 4" shorter than I told them. In the first box below, they were supposed to cut the port that goes "into" the middle of the box 19". Instead they cut it at 15". Using the other box with the same dimensions and an 8" that came out to 40hz, that would put my box around 34hz instead of the 30-31hz I wanted.
BUT! I just found this box calculator on RE's website and when I put in the dimensions of my box (my dimensions are already put into the picture given below) it comes out to around 29.5hz. Can anyone confirm which is correct? I'm hoping the 29.5-30hz is as I want it more sq-oriented.
Last edited by Trunk Monkey; 03-31-2011 at 08:14 PM.
03-31-2011, 08:25 PM
#13
Drifting
A lot of spl dudes get the sa because they can handle alot more than rated daily, 1500+ on a burp, yet maintain good detail and depth for a musical setup. Plus they put up huge numbers on the term tab. Jacob(owner of sundown) got a 151 wit 1 8(video below). The w6's are meant to play flat from 25 to 80hz. Can they get loud? sure..but any sq sub can get loud if you throw it in the right box with the right amount of power. Same goes for the idq.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o02UKK6PvsQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o02UKK6PvsQ
03-31-2011, 08:25 PM
#14
Dogmatic Dinosaur
I could have sworn that eggy would have taken that opportunity to remind you that JLs like more room than advertised... maybe closer to 2 per on those w6.
The ESK are fine - even on the crossovers. They belong in that group and you would likely be very happy with them over the stock.
If you make it up I35, stop by and you can hear some 1000+ sealed 12s. I have a 3.0 cu ft ported box that you could hear a w7 or a T2 (loud, but blah) in if you want with similar wattage. I have an old orange mojo 12 too if you really want to hear a loud and harsh sound. According to a shop in town when I went to get some wire, I hit 140.8 at with a sealed Q on about 1200W at what I assume to be near-full excursion. I think that he played 38 or 40hz. Seems high to me, but you can get plenty loud and save your trunk space and have good quality. Doesn't that seem high? Maybe he measured it in the trunk.
If I had it to do over again, I would bolt a box to the back of the seat and fire the thing through the armrest and forget about sealing my trunk.
The ESK are fine - even on the crossovers. They belong in that group and you would likely be very happy with them over the stock.
If you make it up I35, stop by and you can hear some 1000+ sealed 12s. I have a 3.0 cu ft ported box that you could hear a w7 or a T2 (loud, but blah) in if you want with similar wattage. I have an old orange mojo 12 too if you really want to hear a loud and harsh sound. According to a shop in town when I went to get some wire, I hit 140.8 at with a sealed Q on about 1200W at what I assume to be near-full excursion. I think that he played 38 or 40hz. Seems high to me, but you can get plenty loud and save your trunk space and have good quality. Doesn't that seem high? Maybe he measured it in the trunk.
If I had it to do over again, I would bolt a box to the back of the seat and fire the thing through the armrest and forget about sealing my trunk.
04-01-2011, 11:40 AM
#17
Drifting
Same build house
Someone recently bought that up and this is what the owner of ssa had to say
someone else chimed in and said
Also, I just want to make clear.
Someone recently bought that up and this is what the owner of ssa had to say
One point should be made here, not many people really should be making any objective or subjective statements on the Zcon seeing that only a small group of people have actually heard them, they are not technically in production yet, and I don't think anyone out side a hard to find, unmarked warehouse in las vegas has heard both the Zcon and BTLN2. Not to mention, I have not publicly stated anything about pricing of the Zcon, so to compare two different drivers based on pricing when pricing of one is still unknown, does not make sense to me.
But again, as stated they are two different drivers that is very evident is the drastically different motor designs. When we release specs, that will be more evident. Something else to think about is that the Fi BTL has a hell of a track record in SPL competition, with that said, we (SSA) have a good number of low tuned "ground pounder" types that are putting up respectable numbers, but we have never once gone into or after the mega SPL market. Is that saying our drivers do not do well in competition, no not at all, but even from the different philosophy of the different brands, it should be a good indication that there is a difference in the sub woofers at hand. Lastly, and I think it was kind of explained before, but it would make zippy sense for us to have a product built that is a copy or a clone of a existing driver that is built by the same people then try to sell it heads up for the same price or more. I have three degree's, none of them business degree's, but I know enough to know it would be a silly business plan. In other words, not going to make an Infinity G coupe, when there already is a 370Z.
But again, as stated they are two different drivers that is very evident is the drastically different motor designs. When we release specs, that will be more evident. Something else to think about is that the Fi BTL has a hell of a track record in SPL competition, with that said, we (SSA) have a good number of low tuned "ground pounder" types that are putting up respectable numbers, but we have never once gone into or after the mega SPL market. Is that saying our drivers do not do well in competition, no not at all, but even from the different philosophy of the different brands, it should be a good indication that there is a difference in the sub woofers at hand. Lastly, and I think it was kind of explained before, but it would make zippy sense for us to have a product built that is a copy or a clone of a existing driver that is built by the same people then try to sell it heads up for the same price or more. I have three degree's, none of them business degree's, but I know enough to know it would be a silly business plan. In other words, not going to make an Infinity G coupe, when there already is a 370Z.
Also, I just want to make clear.
Just because Scott(Fi and ect) OEMs for SSA does not mean they are the same as the sub his companies sells.
If they was the same but cost less, why in the hell would SSA even bother investing money to sell their own brand of drivers? I mean think about it.
SSA found a niche that currently didn't have many other options.
A Sound Quality first but still retain higher power handling and be USA made.
Not saying other companies drivers can't sound good, but most in the high power handling range, SQ isn't the first priory.
As far as price, its right on point IMO.
If they was the same but cost less, why in the hell would SSA even bother investing money to sell their own brand of drivers? I mean think about it.
SSA found a niche that currently didn't have many other options.
A Sound Quality first but still retain higher power handling and be USA made.
Not saying other companies drivers can't sound good, but most in the high power handling range, SQ isn't the first priory.
As far as price, its right on point IMO.
Last edited by eggyhustles; 04-01-2011 at 11:42 AM.
04-01-2011, 05:19 PM
#18
Sooo...any ideas on that box thing?? Still can't decide what I'd like to do about components. I can't find any shops around that have any decent components set up.
How would those jl's sound in that sealed box? I understand sealed is good for sq but I'm guessing it won't get very loud or dig low
How would those jl's sound in that sealed box? I understand sealed is good for sq but I'm guessing it won't get very loud or dig low
04-01-2011, 07:02 PM
#20
Options for now:
1. $300 - 2 12" jl w6's sealed or ported
2. $340 - 2 10" SA-10 ported
3. $230ish - 2 10" SSA Dcon ported (might be able to fit the 12's in my 3cuft box)
4. $200 - 2 10" RE SEx ported
5. Do a $250ish 12" and build a new box. Not sure how a 12" Fi q or icon would stack up to the above setups in terms of that hard punch I like.
Too many options and I need to just pick one I think. I'm going to look at the w6's tomorrow probably. Now...onto the components! Should I buy any mdf rings to mount them on so they aren't in direct contact with the door metal? Havent seen the TL with my door panel off so I'm not sure how it's set up. I'm sure a layer or 2 of deadener will be a must with some good midbass components right? Any cheap suggestions for deadener?
1. $300 - 2 12" jl w6's sealed or ported
2. $340 - 2 10" SA-10 ported
3. $230ish - 2 10" SSA Dcon ported (might be able to fit the 12's in my 3cuft box)
4. $200 - 2 10" RE SEx ported
5. Do a $250ish 12" and build a new box. Not sure how a 12" Fi q or icon would stack up to the above setups in terms of that hard punch I like.
Too many options and I need to just pick one I think. I'm going to look at the w6's tomorrow probably. Now...onto the components! Should I buy any mdf rings to mount them on so they aren't in direct contact with the door metal? Havent seen the TL with my door panel off so I'm not sure how it's set up. I'm sure a layer or 2 of deadener will be a must with some good midbass components right? Any cheap suggestions for deadener?
04-01-2011, 07:59 PM
#22
Yeah I read the 12" dcon wrong, so that's off the list. And about the JL's, it's not that I really want them but for 2 12" subs that have a good amount of output and solid SQ I'm sure will be plenty for me. I'm sure the SQ will be leaps and bounds above my 2 10" w3's and it will obviously dig deeper...and be louder, but I don't really care about being any louder. I'm the farthest thing from a JL nutswinger as I think they are extremely overpriced for what they are, but when you can get them for $150/per w6, that's not bad for a sub that is like the Fi q with maybe slighty less output.
I tried to send IHC a PM because I thought he had 2 w6's but his box is full, hopefully he'll chime in. Would 1 12" FI q in a ported box to spec hit just as hard as those 2 w6's or dcon's? It would be a tad cheaper and the box would likely be smaller and fit up against the seat a little better than what I have now. Honestly, I think i'll be happy with anything but I just want to make the right decision b/c I don't want to be stuck with something and be disappointed. Hopefully when I get some good components in there everything will sound great no matter what.
Eggy- Didn't you have a pair of dcons? or did you only use the icon. What'd you think and what other woofers can you compare them to (good and bad)
04-01-2011, 08:39 PM
#24
Drifting
I never had dcons. I had the xcons.
Fi q and w6 are apples to oranges.
the w6 is an sq driver first. The q is sq first, output second. Dcon is also an sq woofer. I would go with the w6's since 300 is a good deal.
Fi q and w6 are apples to oranges.
the w6 is an sq driver first. The q is sq first, output second. Dcon is also an sq woofer. I would go with the w6's since 300 is a good deal.
04-01-2011, 09:13 PM
#25
Cruisin'
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I've listened to, the ID ctx, focal 165a1, and the hat imagines blow them out of the water. I am running the HAT imagines in my s2000, but will be trying out a pair of the focal kr2's in my tl. Should be done in a couple of weeks.
04-01-2011, 10:25 PM
#27
Those HAT's get great reviews. Phampau...how do you compare the midbass and tweeter for each set?? Eggy...what makes you think hat is overrated?
Those ID's seem to be the way to go for midbass on the forums but everyone has different ears. I just want as much midbass as possible with warm, detailed tweeters. I hate the shrill, aluminum tweets
Those ID's seem to be the way to go for midbass on the forums but everyone has different ears. I just want as much midbass as possible with warm, detailed tweeters. I hate the shrill, aluminum tweets
04-01-2011, 10:54 PM
#28
Cruisin'
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The midbass in the HAT imagines are right on par wit the midbass from the ID ctx, both of which have better midbass than the focal a1. As for the tweets, i feel the HAT imagines are much more detailed than the ID, but also a little more bright than the ID's if that makes sense. Hope that helps. Paul
04-04-2011, 11:05 AM
#29
So I picked up the 2 jl 12w6's for $280 and they're in good condition and work perfectly. Anyways, I've only got my little Kicker 400.1 now so I'll need a much larger amp to run these. Any good budget amps for about 1000-1200rms?? I was looking on craigslist and found a few, what look to be nice amps..but I've yet to take a look at them.
Craigslist Amp's:
1. Memphis pr1.1000 - $150 (near perfect condition)
2. Memphis 16-st1000d - $175
Thinking about picking up this pr1.1000 for $150 and using the rest on components/deadener.
Craigslist Amp's:
1. Memphis pr1.1000 - $150 (near perfect condition)
2. Memphis 16-st1000d - $175
Thinking about picking up this pr1.1000 for $150 and using the rest on components/deadener.
04-04-2011, 12:34 PM
#30
Dogmatic Dinosaur
The distortion on those will be pretty high at 1 ohm. You might not be able to get full power out of them with good sound... maybe 75% or so (guessing). I imagine that they will get hot too. I have not owned either, though. I imagine that you will have this issue with any cheaper amp at 1 ohm, or less, so either are probably a good enough of a deal.
You could always buy a second 400.1 and run one on each sub at 2 ohms. Looks like you can get 'em for $50-125 used. They probably birthed near 500.
If you are going to seal them up and go for a SQ kind of thing, then I would get a more SQ oriented amp and keep the THD as low as possbile. Many say that you cannot tell with a sub, but you can tell if you are not running jackhammers, CVXs or P3s or something.
You could always buy a second 400.1 and run one on each sub at 2 ohms. Looks like you can get 'em for $50-125 used. They probably birthed near 500.
If you are going to seal them up and go for a SQ kind of thing, then I would get a more SQ oriented amp and keep the THD as low as possbile. Many say that you cannot tell with a sub, but you can tell if you are not running jackhammers, CVXs or P3s or something.
04-04-2011, 01:01 PM
#32
The distortion on those will be pretty high at 1 ohm. You might not be able to get full power out of them with good sound... maybe 75% or so (guessing). I imagine that they will get hot too. I have not owned either, though. I imagine that you will have this issue with any cheaper amp at 1 ohm, or less, so either are probably a good enough of a deal.
You could always buy a second 400.1 and run one on each sub at 2 ohms. Looks like you can get 'em for $50-125 used. They probably birthed near 500.
If you are going to seal them up and go for a SQ kind of thing, then I would get a more SQ oriented amp and keep the THD as low as possbile. Many say that you cannot tell with a sub, but you can tell if you are not running jackhammers, CVXs or P3s or something.
You could always buy a second 400.1 and run one on each sub at 2 ohms. Looks like you can get 'em for $50-125 used. They probably birthed near 500.
If you are going to seal them up and go for a SQ kind of thing, then I would get a more SQ oriented amp and keep the THD as low as possbile. Many say that you cannot tell with a sub, but you can tell if you are not running jackhammers, CVXs or P3s or something.
My Kicker 400.1 had a birth sheet of 483rms. I haven't thought about looking for a second and hooking them up @ 2ohms, just figured I could get a nicer amp like the Memphis PR, as my Kicker is the '06/'07 one, and it would be an all around better amp.
04-04-2011, 01:03 PM
#33
I guess I just figured that Memphis would make a better choice than buying a Power Acoustik, Hifonics, etc. I've always heard/seen that "most" class-D amps will pull a little less from the electrical system than a class a/b. Not sure if that's just a theory but I don't have any special upgrades to my electrical...though I do need to buy a new battery soon and I figured I could get one that will do well with a good system. Not sure which batteries to look at though
The JL's are in sealed box that comes out to about 1.3cu.ft per woofer with about a half pound of poly fill in it. Each sub has it's own chamber in the box (it came with the subs). I'll play with this box and see what I think about it, then decide if I want to cut my 2 10" ported box for 2 12's for that low end extension. It's tuned to 31ish hertz so I'm sure it'll sound close to as good
The JL's are in sealed box that comes out to about 1.3cu.ft per woofer with about a half pound of poly fill in it. Each sub has it's own chamber in the box (it came with the subs). I'll play with this box and see what I think about it, then decide if I want to cut my 2 10" ported box for 2 12's for that low end extension. It's tuned to 31ish hertz so I'm sure it'll sound close to as good
Last edited by Trunk Monkey; 04-04-2011 at 01:14 PM.
04-04-2011, 01:25 PM
#34
Dogmatic Dinosaur
The Memphis should do quite a bit more than advertised power. I had a 4K and the THD on it was probably closer to 5%. The heat will wear out the components faster and the THD will climb with use... they don't last as long at 1 ohm, or less. Keep this in mind as you buy used - heat kills and you don't really know the history.
I think that even a 06/07 zx is a "better" amp than those Memphis, but the Memphis is twice as powerful.
I am probably being too picky, so don't listen to me.
How does one of them sound on your kicker in their current box?
I think that even a 06/07 zx is a "better" amp than those Memphis, but the Memphis is twice as powerful.
I am probably being too picky, so don't listen to me.
How does one of them sound on your kicker in their current box?
04-04-2011, 01:52 PM
#36
So what amp should I pick up new for $200 or look for on craigslist? I was planning on going to look at it/pick it up here in about 4-5 hours, should I say no and keep looking or what? I don't want to get into $250 amps and then not be able to get nice components though. I know the Kicker's and Alpine (m1000), etc are not 1ohm stable so I'd have to do 2 400-500 watt amps at 2ohms. I'm not quite sure I would see a significant or any SQ difference to my ears that aren't car audio sq-trained ya know.
I didn't think this was lower end Memphis amp though. The new version is $449, which is more than the kickers, alpines, etc. I mean most amps THD rises while the rms increases and ohm load lowers. The Audioque 1200d has a 5% THD @14.4V.
I didn't think this was lower end Memphis amp though. The new version is $449, which is more than the kickers, alpines, etc. I mean most amps THD rises while the rms increases and ohm load lowers. The Audioque 1200d has a 5% THD @14.4V.
Last edited by Trunk Monkey; 04-04-2011 at 02:04 PM.
04-04-2011, 02:08 PM
#37
A few good budget amps I see recommend on various car audio forums. I had a Power Acoustik a3000db back in the day and that amp put out solid, good power without too much current draw. Never got too hot either. Those are relatively cheap also
1. MB Quart ONX1.1500D
2. Audiopipe AP1500d
3. Hifonics BRZ1700
1. MB Quart ONX1.1500D
2. Audiopipe AP1500d
3. Hifonics BRZ1700
04-04-2011, 02:59 PM
#40
Dogmatic Dinosaur
I helped a neighbor kid with a Onyx 1500.1. The issue with it is that it does 500 at 4, or 1500 at 1. You cannot use it at 2. The 1500 is too much for those w6. It did more than rated power and sounded OK when new. You could try the 1000.1 onyx.
I would look bridged AB 2 channel around 700-1000w at 4 ohms.
You will be able to tell a difference in SQ, especially if you keep them sealed and are looking for musical output and not bludgeoning sound.
I have an 800a2 collecting dust - PM me if you want.
I would look bridged AB 2 channel around 700-1000w at 4 ohms.
You will be able to tell a difference in SQ, especially if you keep them sealed and are looking for musical output and not bludgeoning sound.
I have an 800a2 collecting dust - PM me if you want.