King of Pain specifically, because you truely know what you're talking about...

Ive never done an install with LOC's always after market decks so I ask this...

- The LOC's are installed between the stock amp and new power amps, correct?
- To do this do you cut each speaker wire and wire accordingly?
- Did/Do you wire the LOC's right by the stock amp and run RCA cables to the amps or do you extend the speaker wire to the trunk and hook up the LOC's there.
- Finally how easy is it to run speaker wire to the center speaker?

Thanks

 

This was my first install with LOCs. I am not a professional at this. I learned this by trial and error, mostly error.

-The LOCs are installed between the stock amp and the new amps
-Yes, cut each speaker wire and connect to the LOCs
-If you can find room near the stock amp to install the LOCs, great. But I'm not sure if it makes a difference. I put my LOCs in the trunk.
-The tweeters and the center speaker wires are very easy. Pop the speakers and drop the wires into the dash, pull them out from the bottom of the dash.

Hope that helps.

 

Yo... what is a LOC?

 

See above

 

LOC= Line output converter

These things take the speaker level output signal from the stock amp and convert (stepdown) the signal to a preamp signal. Converts the wires to RCAs

http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/IS...ps.html?page=4

 

Line Output Converter

Converts high power output signals from audio source to low power. For use in utilizing aftermarket amplifiers from an amplified source.

Steve

 

Really there is no need to use on in the TL. You can use the signal before the factory amp to get your RCA signal.

Jason

 

Gotcha... that is the thing I installed for my sub in the trunk with the Amp mounted to it... got it. I never knew what it was called...

 

I understand that the HU signal is very weak (around 1V) and you will need to turn up the gains on your amp to compensate for the weak signal. This puts more strain on your amps and brings more distortion into the signal. Most amps need around 5V. The weak signal also gives you undefined muddy bass responce.

Maybe I 'll experiment this weekend.

 

Did you remove your stock subwoofer when you installed your aftermarket sub? You didnt just disconnect it and leave it there did you? Im assuming doing this would cause issues with vibrations and such, I know there's a specific word for it, I think it starts with a "R" im not sure though...

 

I removed the stock woofer with the intent of cutting a hole for the bass to come through. I ended up pointing it to the back and it sounds nice.

My goal was clean accurate sound, not big bass rumble. No vibrations, no resonance issues.

 

For the most part that is untrue. The more components you go through before you get to an amp is what can cause problems. LOC or Line level converters are really not that great in a system. This is where you can induce alot of engine noise.

If you use a good twisted pair cable with the factory wires before the amp, you will eliminate the need of the LOC and have a cleaner sound. As for boosting the signal, you are better off to use a electronic line driver. I would only suggest using it on the sub input. This will allow you to boost it as high as 8 volt.

As for the input to the amp. There is no extra strain from using a 1 volt input to using a 5 volt. The gain on the amp is meant to match the signal coming into the amp to what the amp really needs. Its not a volume control. Most people will try to use it as such, this is where you run into people over driving the amp.

The amp I have actually has a meter on it to let you know when you are reaching a clipping point. I have the gain set at about half and it sounds great with the input coming from before the factory amp.

Not to mention the factory is not that strong after the amp and to then drop it down to a low level signal with the LOC!! yuck

Just some food for thought. Jason

 

"resonance" Is this the word you are looking for??

 

Hey Black, can you explain how you would wire a female rca jack to the wires coming from the headunit...lets use the front channel for example

do you have a link to such rca jack so I can see how they look, I searched but I couldnt find anything...dont know what I should search...

 

ALSO!!!

Will there be any issues with frequency and phaseing and all that other stuff that the deck puts out??? Isnt that why these Navone LOC's that King of Pain used are good for...

 

Thanks for the info. In my quest for audio perfection (lol) I am always willing try something different. I agree adding more devices in the signal path has the potential to add noise. The less the better. I'll experiment this weekend and see what happens.

 

While you are experimenting try splicing some RCAs straight into the factory amps output then straight into the aftermarket system. Cut one of the ends off of an RCA cable and wire it up. If I ever take my Zapcos out that is what I will go back to.

Kirk

 

I'm definitely interested in reading the results since we have a nearly identical setup.

Thanks!

 

You will need to sacrifice some female RCA's to the stereo gods, once you have the heads, I mean ends, you will want to strip back the wiring on the RCA, there are two ultra thin wires on the inside of the RCA, If you have a DVM or DMM you will need to test what is center or positive and which is ground or common. Once you have this, you will wire the positive up to the positive coming out of the radio and the negative to the common on the RCA. Then solder the two wires. Repeat for each channel of the radio. There is a wire diagram for the input into the amp on this forum, you will need to search for it, but it is correct on its wire colors. If you have any other question let me know.

Jason

 

Not a problem, glad I could add another aspect to the way it is done. Jason

 

I did some testing today on 2 different wiring configurations.

1. Bypassing the stock amp and LOCs, sending the signal directly from the HU to aftermarket amps

2. Sending the signal from the HU to the stock amp to the LOCs to the aftermarket amps

For this test I only used the front speakers and disconnected all other speakers, including the sub. I played 2 songs, Michael Jackson’s “Billie Jean” and Van Halen’s “Ain’t Talkin About Love”. I chose these song for their good used of high treble and low end bass. To bypass the stock amp and the LOCs I soldered and wired 2 female RCAs. Using the wiring diagram I connected these to their proper holes on the output plug from the HU as shown in the pictures. I connected these to RCA cables which I ran directly to the trunk as pictured. I left the gains the same on the aftermarket amps for both configurations (about a quarter turn).

Listening evaluations:

1. Bypassing the stock amp and LOCs:
I had to turn up the volume (almost to it’s maximum setting) on the HU to get a comfortable listening level. Both bass and treble seemed to be weak. Channel separation and imaging was lacking. I tried to adjust the tone setting to achieve acceptable bass and treble (still not the best). I turned up the gains on the amps. This increased the volume but did not improve bass, treble, dynamic range or imaging. The increase in gain added noticeable noise too. Not a lot, but noticeable.

2. HU to stock amp to LOCs to new amps:
The gains on the amps were set back to their original settings Volume was to about 15 and quite loud. Tone controls were set to center. Channel separation and imaging was great. The opening bass notes of “Billie Jean” were solid and tight. The guitars in Van Halen were crisp and airy. The was almost no noise (except for what is on the recordings) with the LOCs set at max and the gain on the aftermarket amps set to minimum

Notes:

With the direct approach the system seemed to be struggling with a weak signal and trying to do the best with it. I knew I could have increased the gain to get a stronger signal but this approach is not recommended. With the LOCs set at their max the signal from the HU was more than enough for the aftermarket amps and very little gain was needed.

Disclaimer: This test is solely based on my current equipment configuration and results will vary with different amp-speaker-equipment combinations. This is what my ears could hear and your ears may hear things differently.


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