To those debating upgrading just speakers or amp too.
#41
The center is very important if you're playing 5.1 surround DVD-A disks. If this format was not dead I would still be using it. It sounds VERY nice but the disks just aren't being made anymore.
For regular 2 channel stereo which is 99.9% of everything you listen to, the center is doing little to nothing.
If you do the rears again, I would literally use stock speakers in there before I would put the Sonys back in. I amped my rear speakers with 75w each and they didn't sound bad at all. I didn't push them hard but they really woke up.
For best sound quality the rears are rarely used. They tend to mess up the sound stage. Only if you're using a processor like the MS8 that has 7.1 surround would you worry about doing the rears or if you always have passengers back there and you care about them lol. It doesn't hurt to put a set back there, you can always shut them off but if your budget is limited it's a place you can save money.
For regular 2 channel stereo which is 99.9% of everything you listen to, the center is doing little to nothing.
If you do the rears again, I would literally use stock speakers in there before I would put the Sonys back in. I amped my rear speakers with 75w each and they didn't sound bad at all. I didn't push them hard but they really woke up.
For best sound quality the rears are rarely used. They tend to mess up the sound stage. Only if you're using a processor like the MS8 that has 7.1 surround would you worry about doing the rears or if you always have passengers back there and you care about them lol. It doesn't hurt to put a set back there, you can always shut them off but if your budget is limited it's a place you can save money.
Ok, so based on that, I've decided i do not need the center channel. Done.
In your previous post, you said swap the polk's from the front to rear since i dont need tweeters back there. The Polk's have tweeters on them though...
This part is confusing me a little-->
You will have to run an additional wire from the crossover to the tweeter. With the stock setup, the mid/tweeter wire comes off of the stock amp in the passenger kick panel and splits into two wires on to the tweeter and one to the mid in a block behind the glovebox.
The simplest way of doing this is to locate the front right and front left wire coming off of the stock amp. Tap into these wires with a LOC and send the signal to your aftermarket amp.
The simplest way of doing this is to locate the front right and front left wire coming off of the stock amp. Tap into these wires with a LOC and send the signal to your aftermarket amp.
Is there anything special i need to do for the rears??
and i'm not sure what to do with the crossover. Where do i put it? what do i hook it up to?
So when you go before the stock amp, you no longer need the stock amp, correct? I just wanna make sure I'm understanding this. So before, means theres nothing in between the stock headunit and the aftermarket amp. After, means you go from the stock headunit, to the stock amp, to the aftermarket amp. right?
Based on the fact that it's easier, and you said you did it that way for years, (and I'm definitely not looking to compete) I will go after the stock amp.
Why do i need a 5 channel amp? Wouldn't it be better to get a 4 channel for the fronts and rears, and then a mono amp for the aftermarket sub?
So, is everything up front? Like do i need to wire anything back through the car? I know i have to for the aftermarket sub, but for like the rear speakers? don't their wires come right up into the stock amp, so i can just use an LOC and then send them to the aftermarket amp. Because I'm planning on putting the aftermarket amp right in the same place where the stock amp is. Is there enough room in there?
And i read somewhere that you need to replace ALL the wiring to get really good sound? Is this true? It sounds like a ton of work and if it's not that much of an improvement, i really dont wanna mess with it.
If i dont need the rears then i wouldn't even need a 4 channel amp, right? I could use a 2 channel for the 2 front mids, and 2 tweeters. But i think i Kinda want the rears. I might buy a front component set like you said, and put my Polks back there. I'm also surprised that having the rears will make it sound WORSE. That is very surprising. I want it to be loud, and the more speakers, the louder it is right? Don't get me wrong, i want great sound quality as well. So I'm sure there's a happy medium. The 4 channel amp i was looking at for the Polks: http://www.crutchfield.com/p_113KAC8...r_Level_Inputs
Now, that was the one i was looking at BEFORE i knew that the tweeters ran off the same channel as the mids. So the Polk's are 55 watts RMS, and that amp is 60 watts x 4 RMS. But I'd actually need more than 60 watts on at least 2 of the 4 channels, right? since the tweeters are also on that channel? Are there any amps you'd recommend for what I'm doing?
#46
From what I've gathered, you want:
1. To keep rears in the equation..just in case.
2. Add a little more bass
3. More volume
Here's what I'd do on that budget...
Move the Polk DB651's to the rear or leave the Sony's back there and sell the Polk's. You can either leave these on stock power or amp them...we'll get to that later.
Purchase a nice set of components speakers, which are where it's a midbass/midrange speaker + a tweeter + a crossover. You're running a coaxial and a extremely inefficient tweeter right now so even a $100 component set will be leaps and bounds above what you have now in terms of volume and most likely SQ.
Purchase a sub that requires a small box and not crazy high power requirements.
OK..so here's the amp situation. You can either:
5-channel Amp
2 channels on front components
2 channels on rears
1 sub channel on sub
5-channel Amp
4 channels (bridged) on front components
1 sub channel on sub
4-channel Amp
2 channels on front components
2 channels bridged on sub
3-channel amp (there's a few out there)
2 channels on front components
1 sub channel on sub
You can easily purchase a set of components, amp and small sub/box for $600. Install shouldn't be too difficult, but if you wanted a shop to run all the wires or something to take out the hardest part then it'll cut in to the budget a bit. There's TOOONS of write-up's here and people to help. Crazy good forum we have here. It's also incredible the deals you can find if you're patient, know what you want to do and purchase used. Knowledge is the key here. Research and learn...find what you want and what you need and go after it!
1. To keep rears in the equation..just in case.
2. Add a little more bass
3. More volume
Here's what I'd do on that budget...
Move the Polk DB651's to the rear or leave the Sony's back there and sell the Polk's. You can either leave these on stock power or amp them...we'll get to that later.
Purchase a nice set of components speakers, which are where it's a midbass/midrange speaker + a tweeter + a crossover. You're running a coaxial and a extremely inefficient tweeter right now so even a $100 component set will be leaps and bounds above what you have now in terms of volume and most likely SQ.
Purchase a sub that requires a small box and not crazy high power requirements.
OK..so here's the amp situation. You can either:
5-channel Amp
2 channels on front components
2 channels on rears
1 sub channel on sub
5-channel Amp
4 channels (bridged) on front components
1 sub channel on sub
4-channel Amp
2 channels on front components
2 channels bridged on sub
3-channel amp (there's a few out there)
2 channels on front components
1 sub channel on sub
You can easily purchase a set of components, amp and small sub/box for $600. Install shouldn't be too difficult, but if you wanted a shop to run all the wires or something to take out the hardest part then it'll cut in to the budget a bit. There's TOOONS of write-up's here and people to help. Crazy good forum we have here. It's also incredible the deals you can find if you're patient, know what you want to do and purchase used. Knowledge is the key here. Research and learn...find what you want and what you need and go after it!
Last edited by Trunk Monkey; 03-06-2012 at 12:39 PM.
#47
From what I've gathered, you want:
1. To keep rears in the equation..just in case.
2. Add a little more bass
3. More volume
Here's what I'd do on that budget...
Move the Polk DB651's to the rear or leave the Sony's back there and sell the Polk's. You can either leave these on stock power or amp them...we'll get to that later.
Purchase a nice set of components speakers, which are where it's a midbass/midrange speaker + a tweeter + a crossover. You're running a coaxial and a extremely inefficient tweeter right now so even a $100 component set will be leaps and bounds above what you have now in terms of volume and most likely SQ.
Purchase a sub that requires a small box and not crazy high power requirements.
OK..so here's the amp situation. You can either:
5-channel Amp
2 channels on front components
2 channels on rears
1 sub channel on sub
5-channel Amp
4 channels (bridged) on front components
1 sub channel on sub
4-channel Amp
2 channels on front components
2 channels bridged on sub
3-channel amp (there's a few out there)
2 channels on front components
1 sub channel on sub
You can easily purchase a set of components, amp and small sub/box for $600. Install shouldn't be too difficult, but if you wanted a shop to run all the wires or something to take out the hardest part then it'll cut in to the budget a bit. There's TOOONS of write-up's here and people to help. Crazy good forum we have here. It's also incredible the deals you can find if you're patient, know what you want to do and purchase used. Knowledge is the key here. Research and learn...find what you want and what you need and go after it!
1. To keep rears in the equation..just in case.
2. Add a little more bass
3. More volume
Here's what I'd do on that budget...
Move the Polk DB651's to the rear or leave the Sony's back there and sell the Polk's. You can either leave these on stock power or amp them...we'll get to that later.
Purchase a nice set of components speakers, which are where it's a midbass/midrange speaker + a tweeter + a crossover. You're running a coaxial and a extremely inefficient tweeter right now so even a $100 component set will be leaps and bounds above what you have now in terms of volume and most likely SQ.
Purchase a sub that requires a small box and not crazy high power requirements.
OK..so here's the amp situation. You can either:
5-channel Amp
2 channels on front components
2 channels on rears
1 sub channel on sub
5-channel Amp
4 channels (bridged) on front components
1 sub channel on sub
4-channel Amp
2 channels on front components
2 channels bridged on sub
3-channel amp (there's a few out there)
2 channels on front components
1 sub channel on sub
You can easily purchase a set of components, amp and small sub/box for $600. Install shouldn't be too difficult, but if you wanted a shop to run all the wires or something to take out the hardest part then it'll cut in to the budget a bit. There's TOOONS of write-up's here and people to help. Crazy good forum we have here. It's also incredible the deals you can find if you're patient, know what you want to do and purchase used. Knowledge is the key here. Research and learn...find what you want and what you need and go after it!
The only one of those four options that included a way to power the rears was the first, so i think that one would be my best bet, since i want to keep power on the rears.
So based on that option... You're saying to have my sub powered off the same amp thats powering my speakers. Isnt the sub going to require a lot more watts than the speaker? Wouldn't it be better to buy a 4 channel for the front components, and the rears, and then a mono amp for the sub?
How large of a sub should i get, and should i get 1 or 2? Again, im not trying to compete, but i like a lot of bass. (i listen to hardcore, not rap or anything like that). And how many watts should the sub have? If the sub has like 400 watts RMS, and I'm running it off the same amp that is powering my rears, (which only need 55 watts), isn't that a waste?? And dangerous? Because i'd have to buy a huge amp to power the sub, and it might be too much power for the speakers. (i just noticed you said the sub will be on a sub channel, maybe that will answer my question. not sure what a sub channel is)
#48
Ok, i definitely CANNOT leave the Sony's in the rear, one of them is blown, and they sound like poop anyways. So i will move the Polk's to the rear, and buy a component set for the front.
The only one of those four options that included a way to power the rears was the first, so i think that one would be my best bet, since i want to keep power on the rears.
So based on that option... You're saying to have my sub powered off the same amp thats powering my speakers. Isnt the sub going to require a lot more watts than the speaker? Wouldn't it be better to buy a 4 channel for the front components, and the rears, and then a mono amp for the sub?
How large of a sub should i get, and should i get 1 or 2? Again, im not trying to compete, but i like a lot of bass. (i listen to hardcore, not rap or anything like that). And how many watts should the sub have? If the sub has like 400 watts RMS, and I'm running it off the same amp that is powering my rears, (which only need 55 watts), isn't that a waste?? And dangerous? Because i'd have to buy a huge amp to power the sub, and it might be too much power for the speakers. (i just noticed you said the sub will be on a sub channel, maybe that will answer my question. not sure what a sub channel is)
The only one of those four options that included a way to power the rears was the first, so i think that one would be my best bet, since i want to keep power on the rears.
So based on that option... You're saying to have my sub powered off the same amp thats powering my speakers. Isnt the sub going to require a lot more watts than the speaker? Wouldn't it be better to buy a 4 channel for the front components, and the rears, and then a mono amp for the sub?
How large of a sub should i get, and should i get 1 or 2? Again, im not trying to compete, but i like a lot of bass. (i listen to hardcore, not rap or anything like that). And how many watts should the sub have? If the sub has like 400 watts RMS, and I'm running it off the same amp that is powering my rears, (which only need 55 watts), isn't that a waste?? And dangerous? Because i'd have to buy a huge amp to power the sub, and it might be too much power for the speakers. (i just noticed you said the sub will be on a sub channel, maybe that will answer my question. not sure what a sub channel is)
When choosing a sub, the enclosure will have the biggest influence of how it sounds. A larger enclosure will be better in nearly every way. Better SQ, less power required, flatter response, and it will dig deeper.
Same with sub size. No matter if you want sound quality, SPL, or both, larger and/or multiple subs is better. The less it has to move (excursion) the less distortion it's going to have. The more cone area you have, the less power is required for the same SPL. Larger usually has a lower Fs and will play flatter and lower with less power. Basically bigger is better. The only negative is the space they take up. 500w on a 15 in a large enclosure can get a lot louder than 500w on a 10 in a small enclosure.
Some people think it's weird that I have a pair of 15s when I consider mine a sound quality setup but you can barely see them move even with it pretty loud. They always stay in a very linear range with very low distortion. Since they're infinite baffle (using the whole trunk as the box), they require very little power. 250w each is all they need to flex the roof and drown out the front stage.
#49
The amp channels are all separate. A typical 5 channel like mine has 100wx4 and 500w for the sub. They're all adjustable separately.
When choosing a sub, the enclosure will have the biggest influence of how it sounds. A larger enclosure will be better in nearly every way. Better SQ, less power required, flatter response, and it will dig deeper.
Same with sub size. No matter if you want sound quality, SPL, or both, larger and/or multiple subs is better. The less it has to move (excursion) the less distortion it's going to have. The more cone area you have, the less power is required for the same SPL. Larger usually has a lower Fs and will play flatter and lower with less power. Basically bigger is better. The only negative is the space they take up. 500w on a 15 in a large enclosure can get a lot louder than 500w on a 10 in a small enclosure.
Some people think it's weird that I have a pair of 15s when I consider mine a sound quality setup but you can barely see them move even with it pretty loud. They always stay in a very linear range with very low distortion. Since they're infinite baffle (using the whole trunk as the box), they require very little power. 250w each is all they need to flex the roof and drown out the front stage.
When choosing a sub, the enclosure will have the biggest influence of how it sounds. A larger enclosure will be better in nearly every way. Better SQ, less power required, flatter response, and it will dig deeper.
Same with sub size. No matter if you want sound quality, SPL, or both, larger and/or multiple subs is better. The less it has to move (excursion) the less distortion it's going to have. The more cone area you have, the less power is required for the same SPL. Larger usually has a lower Fs and will play flatter and lower with less power. Basically bigger is better. The only negative is the space they take up. 500w on a 15 in a large enclosure can get a lot louder than 500w on a 10 in a small enclosure.
Some people think it's weird that I have a pair of 15s when I consider mine a sound quality setup but you can barely see them move even with it pretty loud. They always stay in a very linear range with very low distortion. Since they're infinite baffle (using the whole trunk as the box), they require very little power. 250w each is all they need to flex the roof and drown out the front stage.
#50
How many watts should each channel have for this component set? It says 10-100 watts RMS, so i don't know how many watts i should have on each channel. http://http://www.crutchfield.com/p_...f2#details-tab
#51
You can adjust the sub using the gain control on the amp. Even with the pair of 15s, mine is very balanced, you can't tell where the subs leave off and where the fronts pick up. If I want, I can crank the gain to bass out once in a while but I can also turn the subs down or even off.
#52
You can adjust the sub using the gain control on the amp. Even with the pair of 15s, mine is very balanced, you can't tell where the subs leave off and where the fronts pick up. If I want, I can crank the gain to bass out once in a while but I can also turn the subs down or even off.
But how many watts per channel for that component set do you think i need?
#53
Ok, well I'm not gonna waste the money on something like that since i don't compete or anything. So i think I might just get one sub. Like a 12". I still might get the Infinity Basslink. It's simple, got great reviews, and it might be all I need. Plus it's like 200 bucks. Cant beat that!
But how many watts per channel for that component set do you think i need?
But how many watts per channel for that component set do you think i need?
You can usually get a larger version of a sub in the same family for a few bucks more.
Many people I've seen are not happy with the Basslink. Maybe you will be but don't expect anything special. You'll get more bass than stock but not a whole lot.
#54
50w will get plenty loud. A more powerful amp even if you don't listen to it real loud will give better dynamics meaning better overall sq.
You can usually get a larger version of a sub in the same family for a few bucks more.
Many people I've seen are not happy with the Basslink. Maybe you will be but don't expect anything special. You'll get more bass than stock but not a whole lot.
You can usually get a larger version of a sub in the same family for a few bucks more.
Many people I've seen are not happy with the Basslink. Maybe you will be but don't expect anything special. You'll get more bass than stock but not a whole lot.
I think I've almost got it all figured out (as in, what i want for my audio upgrade). I just need to know whether i should get a 2 ohm sub and a 2ohm mono amp, or a 4 ohm sub and a 4 ohm mono amp...
#55
Ok, good. I'm glad I don't HAVE to get a 100watt x 4 amp to power that component system. I'll probably go 60-75 watt x 4. I just got off the phone with Horizon Audio (my local audio shop), and I've now decided to get one 12" sub in a sealed box. I'm gonna get a 4 channel amp for the component system and rears, and a mono amp for the sub. He told me that this would be best for my situation.
I think I've almost got it all figured out (as in, what i want for my audio upgrade). I just need to know whether i should get a 2 ohm sub and a 2ohm mono amp, or a 4 ohm sub and a 4 ohm mono amp...
I think I've almost got it all figured out (as in, what i want for my audio upgrade). I just need to know whether i should get a 2 ohm sub and a 2ohm mono amp, or a 4 ohm sub and a 4 ohm mono amp...
#56
And what kind of sub should i get? I just want one 12" Sub in a sealed box. Should i get 4 ohm or 2 ohm? Are there pros and cons to both??
#57
5 channel makes MUCH more sense for a low-powered, space acing setup. Should be cheaper also, like IHC said. You can pick up the Kenwood XR-5s on EBay for $280 shipped as a refurb. EASILY the best amp in that range for you.
What sub you want depends on the space you want to take up and power. So take $600 - $185 install = $415. That's how much for a sub, box, amp & components. That's not much at all. Either install it yourself or piece together as you go.
What sub you want depends on the space you want to take up and power. So take $600 - $185 install = $415. That's how much for a sub, box, amp & components. That's not much at all. Either install it yourself or piece together as you go.
#58
5 channel makes MUCH more sense for a low-powered, space acing setup. Should be cheaper also, like IHC said. You can pick up the Kenwood XR-5s on EBay for $280 shipped as a refurb. EASILY the best amp in that range for you.
What sub you want depends on the space you want to take up and power. So take $600 - $185 install = $415. That's how much for a sub, box, amp & components. That's not much at all. Either install it yourself or piece together as you go.
What sub you want depends on the space you want to take up and power. So take $600 - $185 install = $415. That's how much for a sub, box, amp & components. That's not much at all. Either install it yourself or piece together as you go.
#60
Agreed. There are four threads that have been dug up with the same questions. I don't mind helping but at some point you have to help yourself. I read for months getting a base and then started asking questions about the stuff I couldn't figure out from the research. Things like impedance can be researched in seconds rather than waiting for people to write what's been written a thousand times.
#61
Reading up on this stuff is what saved me install costs, product costs buying new, etc. I fully deadened/sealed my doors and deadened other parts of my trunk/car, installed everything and I've never done anything like that before. Lots of good info on here and it can save you hundreds!! Put that money towards your setup
#62
#63
I have done lots of reading myself about impedance, resistance, ohms, power, current, etc. but I too have a question regarding the front component speakers. What is our amp seeing as the total resistance if the woofer is 2 ohm, the tweeter is 4 ohm and they are wired together in series? 6 ohm? 3 ohm?
#64
I looked it up again and I get 6 ohm loads for our front Left and Right channels... That is a bit high don't you think? Perhaps that explains why some people claim to have higher SPL when using 4 ohm component sets like Polks (If I recall reading correctly).
Please correct me if I am wrong about the nominal impedance of our stock components.
Really makes me want to just put some nice aftermarkets in there and see how the stock amp does.
Please correct me if I am wrong about the nominal impedance of our stock components.
Really makes me want to just put some nice aftermarkets in there and see how the stock amp does.
#65
I looked it up again and I get 6 ohm loads for our front Left and Right channels... That is a bit high don't you think? Perhaps that explains why some people claim to have higher SPL when using 4 ohm component sets like Polks (If I recall reading correctly).
Please correct me if I am wrong about the nominal impedance of our stock components.
Really makes me want to just put some nice aftermarkets in there and see how the stock amp does.
Please correct me if I am wrong about the nominal impedance of our stock components.
Really makes me want to just put some nice aftermarkets in there and see how the stock amp does.
If you had two 2 ohm mids wired as the factory setup is wired it would give a 1 ohm load. A speaker's impedance changes with frequency. Due to this, each speaker is treated separately in it's respective frequency range and you end up with 2ohms in the lower frequency and 4ohms (if the stock tweeters are 4ohms) in the upper frequencies.
If you add a comp set with a crossover, impedance remains about the same throughout the range from what little I know.
#66
It's weird and it's right on the edge of my audio knowledge level. The amp still sees a 2 ohm load because of inductance and the fact that the tweeter and mid play entirely different frequency ranges.
If you had two 2 ohm mids wired as the factory setup is wired it would give a 1 ohm load. A speaker's impedance changes with frequency. Due to this, each speaker is treated separately in it's respective frequency range and you end up with 2ohms in the lower frequency and 4ohms (if the stock tweeters are 4ohms) in the upper frequencies.
If you add a comp set with a crossover, impedance remains about the same throughout the range from what little I know.
If you had two 2 ohm mids wired as the factory setup is wired it would give a 1 ohm load. A speaker's impedance changes with frequency. Due to this, each speaker is treated separately in it's respective frequency range and you end up with 2ohms in the lower frequency and 4ohms (if the stock tweeters are 4ohms) in the upper frequencies.
If you add a comp set with a crossover, impedance remains about the same throughout the range from what little I know.
You're correct also...stock tweeters are 4ohm with 3.3uF Cap. That's near 10,000hz for the x-over point!
Last edited by Trunk Monkey; 03-07-2012 at 04:49 PM.
#67
Thanks, that makes sense from what i've read. Hadn't considered that the tweeter only dealt with the high frequencies. so everything above 10k is around 4ohms nominal and below that should be 2 ohm. I am guessing then a 2-3db cut to highs is required for aftermarket component sets?
#68
Agreed. There are four threads that have been dug up with the same questions. I don't mind helping but at some point you have to help yourself. I read for months getting a base and then started asking questions about the stuff I couldn't figure out from the research. Things like impedance can be researched in seconds rather than waiting for people to write what's been written a thousand times.
#69
No problem. Sometimes it's better to just take it in on your own time. Being bombarded with info is just confusing lol. You can PM me if you have any questions...don't mind at all
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