zeppelin77

Hello everyone. I own an 06 TL. I just wanted to share my success story of converting my 04-06 OEM Navi to 07-08 OEM Navi w/ NavTraffic. I also upgraded the HFL unit (roof console) and have the new HFL functionality (i.e. import phonebook). I can also call out from within Navi software (i.e. call a restaurant).

Pics first, then the next post will be a lengthy summary.

Here you go:

Navi diagnostics.


XM diagnostics.


NavTraffic working.


NavTraffic construction details


My trunk showing wiring of the new XM unit


FCAN navi diagnostics


Imported phonebook


AcuraLink self-diagnosis. I have no idea what it means. Can anyone decipher the messages?

zeppelin77

You may remember me from another thread where I converted my 06 TL from non-navi to navi with the help of board member JPTL04. Not complacent with just the 04-06 OEM Navi, I had major penis envy. I was jealous of all those 07-08 guys with their fancy-shmancy NavTraffic and other cool toys. One of the reasons why I didn't originally get Navi with my 06 TL was because there was no live NavTraffic. I noticed that a few guys on the boards we able to use an 07-08 navi drive in their 04-06 cars, so I didn't think it'd be a huge leap to add the XM part.

Parts required:
- 07-08 XM receiver. pn: 39820-SEP-A22 retail price: 1269.42 acureoemparts price: 1015.54 (Price I paid: $44.00 -- ebay)
- 07-08 Navi drive. pn: 39546-SEP-A51 retail price: 2558.05 acuraoemparts price: 2046.44 (Price I paid: $500 -- acuzazine member. included original 4.62 disc)
- 07-08 HFL unit. pn: 39770-SEP-A12ZA retail price: 500.35 acuraoemparts price: 400.28 (Price I paid: $65 -- ebay)
- 4 conductor w/ ground wire insulated wire
- 2 condcutor w/ ground wire insulated wire
- insulated wire
* Make sure you get the connectors with each part or else you'll end up needing to buy the wire harnesses to get the connectors. I had to buy the roof wire harness because HFL unit didn't include connectors. I tried for about a month to get the connector from salvage yards -- it was just one damn connector. No luck. I ended up buying the entire harness.

So, I bought all the Helms manuals: 04-06 Service, 04-06 Electrical and 07 Electrical. I studied the wiring diagrams and went about my business. Acura added much more functionality to the 07-08 XM receiver, such as NavTraffic and AcuraLink features. Also, it's more thoroughly integrated with the Navi drive and HFL unit. This requires feeding additional wires from the Navi drive (easy, because it's next to the xm receiver) and HFL unit (very hard, because it's in the roof console) to the XM receiver. The single most difficult part of the project was feeding wires all the way from the HFL to the XM -- meaning having to take out the interior trim. I had never done it before, but reading the manual and reading the boards helped give me the confidence to continue.

Another pain in the ass is that the HFL and XM receiver uses different connectors than an 04-06. And on top of that, the HFL unit uses different size pins, so you have to crimp the old wiring with new pins in a very tight space. I decided to use butt connectors for this part because there just wasn't enough space to solder. At least the XM connector pins were the same size. But it still required de-pinning the connectors.

Here are a few other hurdles I had to overcome:
1) In an 04-06 there are two separate data bus lines (Navi <---> Display and Audio unit <---> XM). In an 07-08, those two data lines are combined into one called 'GA-NET II'. Not too hard to overcome. Just need to solder a wire to join the two existing data lines.
2) New XM unit uses different power lines (fuse 32 and 21). Fuse 32 can be tapped into from the Navi drive. Fuse 21 took some creativity. There's a junction connector for fuse 21 under the passenger side front seat. I had to take out the seat and get under the carpet in order to tap into that power line.
3) In an 04-06 there's a data line (Tele Sig+) going from HFL <---> Audio unit. In an 07-08, the XM receiver is added into this data line. This required tapping into the data line at the HFL unit and feeding wires all the way to the XM receiver.
4) In an 04-06, there's 5 wires that go from the HFL into the Navi drive. In an 07-08, those 5 wires from the HFL go into the XM receiver and then 5 wires go out of the XM unit and into the Navi drive. I think this is where the Navi drive gets its NavTraffic info. I had to create a custom harness from the Navi drive to the XM receiver.

A few notes of advice:
1) Always work with the battery disconnected. I blew two fuses because of dumbass me. I thought I fried some components in the car. Thank god for fuses.
2) Use T tap connectors. I only found out about them today! They would've saved a bunch of time. Instead of T taps, I stripped the insulation right in the middle of the wire. I have these self-adjusting wire stippers that gives me about 1/2" of bare wire and I just solder right onto it.
3) I bought the pin tool set that's used to de-pin the connectors (pn: 07XMJ-001000A, price: $56). It's basically a waste of money. I used these instead: http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00947090000P for $10.

So, there are a couple minor things that don't work:
-The HVAC sub-display shows the incorrect time between the hours of 1am-10am. This issue has been noted from other non-navi navi converters that used a 07-08 navi drive in an 04-06 TL. It's got to be the audio unit or display because everything else is wired correctly and it's essentially an 07-08 system now.
- The FCAN multiplex network is showing up in red in the XM (HIP) diagnostics (see picture). I think this is an incompatiblity with the 04-06 FCAN multiplex network with an 07-08 device. Again, everything is wired correctly. I tapped into the Navi drive's fcan lines and tested the connectivity. By the way, the FCAN line in the Navi diagnostics shows green. The manual shows that it's for AcuraLink reprogramming. But, really everything is working.
- Finally, I can't connect to the AcuraLink Server through my mobile phone. I think it's because my phone doesn't have a data plan, but I tried other phones and they don't work either. It doesn't really bother me because the feature seems pretty worthless to me and I'm sure the Acura servers would be really confused having an 06 TL connect to their servers.

Thanks for looking.

jmkiang

iTrader: (5)

Very impressive! I'm jealous

Silver Bullet

You need to sell your services and do the install for some of us more mod-challenged weenies.

Excellent write-up but I don't have the kahoonas you have.

DMZ

Nice work!

I've been waiting to see this done since the '07 came out.
I can see the prices you paid for parts, but not $3000+.
.
.

bigred123

Congrats. I have a Canadian 2008 TL Navi and your diagnostics screen looks different from mine. Also, how did you get the XM diagnostics menu?

Here is my screen:


and here is my Navi diagnostics screen:



Also, where abouts in the trunk is the AcuraLink module? I don't think the Canadian units have this.

Still trying to find a way to get XMTraffic feeds on my Canadian TL!!! Appreciate any help you can provide!!!

zeppelin77

According to the electronics manual, AcuraLink and NavTraffic is not an option for Canadian TLs. The Canadian XM receiver is just the regular one, with no NavTraffic or other features.

Since you don't have the same diagnostics menu as me, it makes me think that Canadian TLs have a different firmware and/or different software loaded in the Navi drive.

Does the USA Nav disc have Canadian coverage? Is so, then you could get a USA version navi drive and buy all the parts to fully upgrade your system to include NavTraffic.

I have an additional XM (HIP) button in the diagnostics screen.

The AcuraLink module is the XM receiver and it's located i the passenger side trunk, next to the navi drive.

bigred123

Thanks. Does the service manual list different part numbers for these components for US and Canadian vehicles:

- 07-08 XM receiver. pn: 39820-SEP-A22 retail price: 1269.42 acureoemparts price: 1015.54 (Price I paid: $44.00 -- ebay)
- 07-08 Navi drive. pn: 39546-SEP-A51 retail price: 2558.05 acuraoemparts price: 2046.44 (Price I paid: $500 -- acuzazine member. included original 4.62 disc)
- 07-08 HFL unit. pn: 39770-SEP-A12ZA retail price: 500.35 acuraoemparts price: 400.28 (Price I paid: $65 -- ebay)


I doubt it's as simple as using a USA Navigation disk, but I'm willing to try. Anyone have a 4.62 US disk they could send me a link to download the image off?

I'm hoping I don't have to put a new HFL module in...that would kill the attempt for me - I'm not talented enough to put that in. However, if it's the XM receiver with AcuraLink, and I can get it off ebay for $44 I'd be willing to try a swap of that....

Anyone willing to help me continue in my efforts here???? Thanks!!!!

zeppelin77

The service manual does not list any part numbers.

Eject your navi disc and take a picture. Chances are it's a Canadian version navi disc. A USA navi disc will not help if it does not provide Canadian coverage. Someone should be able to answer this question. No one has been able to crack the 4.XX navi disc (yes, you can change the boot up image and other little stuff). So you will not be able to use a Canadian navi disc AND enable NavTraffic, which is only available on USA navi discs.

It's not a simple swap. The connectors are different and there are additional wires that go into the XM receiver.

rksokol

That's great! Congratulations!

mmade22

Like I posted on your last non-nav thread, Great job!!!!! Lots of great info and now it gives everyone out there someting to shoot for when doing this. As the cars get older, these parts are popping up more and more. Thanks again for the great info

rockyfeller

iTrader: (6)

Wow very nice. Good job.

Doesn't it annoy you to the max that so many subtle things like connectors etc. are different on the new models? Why does Acura do this?? I noticed that SO many parts are not readily interchangeable on the 04-06 to 07+ models. From the exterior it always looks like an easy swap but then when you get all the parts and you try to mate them you get an instant headache because you realize they purposely made it non-interchangeable!! You know they must be doing that on purpose, but why? It's not like it saves them money, they need to redesign it slightly off and that is extra effort. Annoying! People will still custom mod anything if they want it bad enough.

-REDHORSE-

Sweet....nice job....

bigred123

Try this:

TSB 08-021: Acuralink Message Cannot Be Read, There Is No XM Radio Or Traffic, Or XM Channels Are Wrong
http://www.in.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SB/b08-021.pdf

bigred123

I got 2 disks with my TL:


The one I primarily use is v4.62 with the description "Canada and Northern USA":


The secondary disk is v4.63 with the description "United States and Southern Canada":


I'd be willing to try a "US Navigation disk" if the US ones are different than the ones I have...just to see if it is the software holding me back. For instance, I could then verify if the traffic feeds are working in the NJ area for instance.

I'm beginning to suspect, however, that their are different components on the Canadian TLs that are blocking this. The fact that I don't have the XM (HIP) diagnostics option likely means I have a different XM unit. So, the next step would be for me to take a picture of my XM unit in the trunk. Does anyone have details on how to remove the trunk side panel where the DVD Navigation drive is? Thanks!

bigred123

OK, so I loaded the v4.63 disk I have in (United States and Southern Canada) and nothing changed. Since I live in the Toronto area, either DVD disk will do, since most of Ontario is covered in the second disk.

I carefully started to take apart the right trunk side panel....I got partway there, but it looks like this is a multi-step process to remove this, as other parts of the trunk liner are attached to this.

At any rate, I was able to pull the cover back far enough to snap a picture of what I think is my XM unit...it's at the side of the trunk close to where the trunk hidge comes in.

Here is a picture:


Based on the limited picture I could get, how does this compare to your unit? Or, am I even snapping a picture of the right part?

Thanks.

zeppelin77

So yeah, I could've told you that your XM receiver does not have NavTraffic and other goodies. The electronics manual explicitly states that Canadian TLs do not have AcuraLink or NavTraffic features. You have the base XM receiver.

You took the right picture, but I don't even see the Acura part number. Probably Canadian parts have different part number schemes, but American Honda/Acura parts are like: 39820-SEP-A22.

I am almost certain that your Navi drive is flashed with a Canadian firmware, crippling the NavTraffic and AcuraLink features. So, even if you hooked the NavTraffic XM receiver up, you won't get anything to work. No one has been able to crack this. And honestly, there is not much interest in it.

The big question is whether someone can take a functioning USA 07-08 TL w/ Navi and insert a Canadian disc AND have NavTraffic work. Why don't we continue this conversion via email because I know you don't have PM access yet and it's getting off-topic. Shoot me an email at: zeppelin 1977 @ yahoo . com

erick3

dude, WOW. too bad there's a hefty price tag on this one - definitely something i'd be/have been interested in doing!

bigred123

Email sent...thanks!

Sigwill24

Very Nice Job. This is one sweet upgrade. I'm gotta say I'm jealous. Just like rockyfeller said, I'm surprised Acura spent the time and money to change such little connectors around between the 06 and 07/08 Models to make the parts interchangeable. I guess they just wanted to give you more of a challenge. Well Done!

zeppelin77

Actually, Acura does try to make the parts interchangeable. For instance, the 04-06 and 07-08 navi drives use the same connectors, with only the addition of the rear camera connector in the 07-08.

On the other hand, with the XM receiver, it's almost impossible. The 04-06 xm receiver (and 07-08 non-navi xm receiver) uses a single 14 pin connector to connect with the audio unit only. Whereas the navi xm receiver uses two connectors (a 16 and 20 pin) because of the additional functionality. It makes additional connections with the navi drive and hfl unit.

Superb

I wonder if this can be installed on a 2nd gen w/ navi....

SQAcuraTL04

Does your time show up correctly in your sub screen above the center vents?

SQAcuraTL04

Please ignore my last post, I missed the part in your post where you mentioned it still didn't show up correctly. When I get the money this is definitely something I want to do. I have been wanting to for a very long time but times are tough. Kudos to you though man for taking the time to post your write-up. It's hard to follow but if I were to look at some schematics I could better understand it all. Do you have digital copies or just hard copies of the 07 electrical manual.

zeppelin77

Sorry, only hard copies.

Mug

Zepplin77:

Awesome job! I'm about to do a navi conversion on my 07 with 07 parts and have a few questions:

Do you know if I will have issues with my clock?
Do all non-navi 07-08 TLs have come with the upgraded XM unit?
Is it true that I have to take about the whole back seat to install the GPS antenna (seats, pillars, and rear deck)?

Thanks

acura_dipset_tl

iTrader: (40)

that sound great man nice job. like someone else said in here u should sell your services to other people who would like to do this to their tl's. awsome write up

jimsta

iTrader: (1)

Wow....freaking awesome job man... but a bit pricey for me to make that leap and time commitment.

Grats on that beautiful work though!

zeppelin77

I'm 99.99% sure you will NOT have clock issues. My TL is a mix of 04-06 and 07-08 parts, so somewhere down the line I have a conflict (most likely the display unit or audio unit).
Non-navi TLs do not have the upgraded xm unit. You will have to find one. It took me 2-3 months to find one on eBay -- and I got lucky. I did find one later on from a salvage yard. Check http://www.car-part.com (search for Radio/CD --> XM satellite. There's one now for $200) or http://www.copartfinder.com Make sure you get one from a Navi TL.
Yes, you have to take apart the back seat. It's not that bad, actually. Although I didn't install the GPS antenna (JPTL04 did), I did take out the back seat for my own upgrade.

zeppelin77

I would consider selling my services, but I haven't done a non-navi to navi conversion. For instance, I know the non-navi to navi conversion requires getting into the steering column and removing the airbag. Although probably pretty straightforward, I have not done it before. So, someone would have to upgrade their TL from non-navi to navi, first. Then I could do the xm navTraffic conversion. If someone wants to be a guina pig, I can try my hands on a navi conversion. People are selling entire conversion kits on eBay with detailed instructions.
Another thing is: it's hard to find the upgraded xm receiver.
I have no problems working on someone else's car. I'm pretty confident in my skills. But, a lot of stars would have to align for my services to come into play.

waicho

i want to change my non-navi to navi only add the LCD, i just want the LCD, i dont want add the nav dvd, do u think the wire is same that i just plug the new LCD into the old wire?? can u give me some suggestion!! thanks!!!

Brooklyn11206

dude is there anyway you could email me a link to those pics?????? i got everything on your list i especially need the xm conections one and the bluetooth one also. elore36225@yahoo.com

zeppelin77

sorry, it's back up now.

Elegant TYPE S

iTrader: (2)

Very impressive.... I do like the upgraded Nav function of the 07's so all in all, you shelled out about $1200 bux more or less right?

Steven Bell

iTrader: (2)

Zeppelin, if that is the correct price, you've saved yourself about $1,300-the Nav upgrade on a TL is about $2,500!!

sixsixfour

very impressive!

what id like to know is how to mount an OEM reverse camera to work with an 06 Navi unit. i looked around and almost everything pointed to getting aftermarket.

Mug

All I know is that you'd need to get a Nav-To-Go type unit that cuts into your navi feed to the screen. Then you'd need to find/make a 6 volt power source. I was told the stock camera is 6 volts.

Where did you get a stock camera? I've never seen any for sale yet.

zeppelin77

My apology a few posts up was because my pictures were taken down, but I fixed the problem.

Paid $1200 in parts to convert to 06 Navi.
Paid $700 in parts to upgrade to 07-08 Navi.
Sold my 06 navi drive + disc for $400.
Ends up to $1500 more or less.

---------------------------------------------------------

OEM reverse camera will not work on an 06 navi, there is no hardware support for it at all.
I'm thinking of installing the OEM reverse camera on my 07-08 navi drive, but they are expensive $500+ and I haven't seen them on ebay. Might as well install an aftermarket one instead.

sixsixfour

i dont have one. ive been contemplating on installing one but every dealer said it isnt compatible. so ive been searching for ways to have it customized.

Mug

I'm sure Zeppelin77 will attack the rear camera next. He's converted everything to 07 navi, why stop there? One last red "block" on his diagnostics screen to make green!