skidaddy88

Searched and didn't find this. Basically, I lived in PR for 3 years, and moved my 05 TL non-nav back to NJ. Now the stereo has gotten quiet, that is I need to have it at full blast to be able to hear. Same sound on CD, XM, and ipod thru the tape player. All speakers have sound coming through. Went to what I heard was a reputable shop, they say it is amp (without looking), and recommended following for about $1000 installed:

XD750 5 channel amp under the seat
ipod integration (think isimple)
alpine 8" type R sub w/ enclosure for the trunk
keep stock HU and speakers

I'd be willing to pay $1000 if this solves the issue and gives great sound, but I'm skeptical I'll have HFL with a 5 channel amp based on research here. Also seems this is way overpowered for the stock speakers

I'd be willing to also just by replacement amp on ebay for $200, and do the isimple myself, but want to be sure the amp is the issue first.

My goals are factory sound, or slightly better, but of course for $1000, I'd expect a nice little bump. Please help me, as I'm a n00b in the car audio.

skidaddy88

By the way, thanks for all the knowledge on the site, this is a great source of info...


One thing I left out...today was warmer than yesterday and the car stereo is noticeable louder. The colder it is outside, the quieter max volume becomes...my car misses the tropics..

Any ideas? Maybe it's the battery or the head unit?

pohljm

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-audio-bluetooth-electronics-navigation-94/mild-grade-fever-854353/

My build . same amp and ipod integration.
HFL and voice prompts work. steering wheel control of ipod.

would certainly upgrade the front stage and not bother amping rears.

look at other sub options

skidaddy88

Thanks, pohljm, and to all the others on your thread. You're build is amazing, but I'm really just after a minor upgrade from stock. A few questions from your experience:

1. My OEM amp seems on the fritz, but the HFL sound is good enough...so I like idea of OEM driving the center, as in your setup. Then, I'm driving 2 very weak component stock speakers on the JLXD700, and the subwoofer. Anything wrong with this? Do I drive the stock rears off the 2 remaining channels of the new amp or the OEM amp?

2. How bad is this 8" sub? i really want barely more bass than stock...not much of a thumper here, just want clear music on the commute. Not willing to mess with IB's, and don't want to give up much space. The guy at the shop played this amp with this sub and some standard AM speakers, and it sounded more than enough for me.

3. What iPhone integration did you use that allowed steering controls.


4. Bottom line....unable to find anything very simple...so since I'm not nearly the aficionado of so many on this board, will this investment leave me disappointed for $1000? Am I ultimately better off just buying a replacement stock amp for $200?

Thanks again for the help! Interested in feedback, and also if anyone on here agrees/disagrees that the issue I have is with the amp. (and not the battery or something else)

I hate cars

Amping the stock speakers will give better sound quality and dynamics. They can take double the factory power as long as you know what you're doing, just use a conservative highpass filter, around 100-120hz and let the 8" sub do the rest. If you decide to upgrade the fronts down the road, you already have the amp. The fronts only require 2 amp channels; the door and tweeter are on the same channel so you will have an extra two channels to either use for the rears or amp the center. I wouldn't do either of those options, I would probably save money and go with a 4 channel and bridge two channels for the sub unless you have plans in the future of going with aftermarket speakers.

About the sub, the Type R is a good sub for the money but keep in mind bigger will have less distortion at a given output so if you have the space you might look into the 10" version. I look at an 8" speaker as more of a midbass lol. Another thing is you don't have eq to make any corrections so its a good idea to make sure you use a large enough box. Larger boxes will have a flatter frequency response giving you that tight punchy clean bass while also going low when its called for. A small box will give a slow, boomy sound. The manufacturers suggested size is usually on the small side.

pohljm

iSimple is what i am using for idevice connectivity.
I have $900 in mine and am completely happy.
can you do your own work?

skidaddy88

Update--the wife is giving me serious crap about a $1200 upgrade, which is what shop is saying...so I need to value-engineer a bit...trying to get everything installed for $1000 or under, just good enough to fix the problem, and maybe add IB sub and front speakers later as Stage II upgrade....I might be catching this bug...while just swapping the stock amp may be smarter, it is becoming less desirable by the day.

Ihatecars: thanks a lot for the input. Any recommendations on a 4 channel amp that works well with the 3G HU without signal processor, that will be less than the JL, but still fit under the seat? Maybe I only need 100W/channel for this application instead of 125?

pohlJM: Part of me wants to dive into this as you have done, but the reality is that work is busy, and I am more of a home improvement guy, with a bit of a backlog in my 100+ year old house....don't think I want to take on learning car audio beyond simple wire runs and hooking things up. I can do an i-simple, but not sure I want to start cutting harnesses, soldering RCA connections, and ripping out seats. My strategy was to gain knowledge here, then take it back to the original shop, and try to gauge if they're going to give me a good setup for a fair price that meets my needs, or if I should find someone else local. Or, if I run into someone reputable here who works locally in NJ, I'd be happy to support them as well.

I think I may go back to the shop I started, with a slightly modified plan from their original to simply amp the front stage stock speakers and stick with a type R 8", maybe downgrade the Amp from the JL XD700 they recommend. (The sales guy may have considered amping front and rear originally) Throwing in the iPod integration, this is all I can expect for a shop to do <$1000.

Phase II is to pawn the Type R 8", go custom IB 12" and improved front stage speakers, maybe sound deadening...bringing it similar to your setup after 2 phases, but with a bit less power and punch (so I don't want to downgrade the amp too much). Of course, I will end up in total spending more and getting less, but can't stomach the installation hassles right now.

Questions:
Are they overselling me on the JLXD700, or is this quality amp appropriate in order to avoid a signal processor on the OEM HU and/or keep it small enough for under-seat? Any other amp suggestions to try and keep this more reasonable?

Should I just go with 4 channels? Any other amp recommendations that would meet my needs for less$, but still deliver good quality considering the OEM HU output?

Is there anyone on here that can recommend a NJ installer for a 2nd opinion? ideally one willing to fabricate a custom TL sub IB?

Do I need a better battery to power this? I have a basic Pepboys replacement battery.

Thanks again for the help, and patience dealing with a noob on this.

LGcbp8

The jl amp is a really good amp. It seems to be a popular choice on here as many people have that amp on here. There are other amps depending on you budget. Kickers ix series amps are cheaper than jl's and will fit under the seat. For multichannel ones they have a 500/4 & a 1000/5. They accept high or low level signals to. I have a 1000/5 (cuz I got a great deal on it from private seller). Depending what speakers you go with the 500/4 would push 2 highs & a sub if that's what your looking to do. I'm happy with the ix amp I have. The jl's are great too. You'll have to decide on speakers & budget 1st then see what's left in your budget. & what amps fit your needs & budget from there.
Without knowing ohms or # of VC's its all kind of guessing at this point.

I hate cars

A couple things to keep in mind in the planning stages.... IB drastically reduces power requirements for a given output. Many times you can get away with cheaper subs and still sound good since they don't need a huge motor to overcome an air spring without the enclosure. You can do a Pyle 15" for $40-$60 a d outperform more expensive box subs and with less power.

With a JL XD or HD class D amp's efficiency coupled with an efficient 15" sub (they usually get more efficient and require less power as they get larger) you won't have to worry about upgrading any wiring or charging system. I just had a couple guys that are heavily into car audio just shaking their heads with big smiles amazed at what a wimpy 250w on each 15" can do.

Another advantage to an IB specific sub is they're usually lighter if that's important to you. If done right, IB can save you money by going with cheaper speakers, a smaller amp, and less materials along with no need to upgrade any wiring.

I absolutely love Dynaudio, I truly believe nothing else will give more accurate life like music at any volume. They're truly amazing but expensive. Some middle to upper end speakers that perform very well for the price are the JL C5 component set. My next system will probably use them.

The JL XD amps are tiny, efficient, and will work without signal conditioning. Important for me is they fit under the seats. The HD line does everything just a little better and with more power.

About power, 75w will get very loud, too loud for most. But it's the dynamics you get with the additional power that gives the sound quality improvements. I'm now running 300w each to my midbass in the doors. 200 each to my 3.5" midranges. 150w each to the tweeters. I don't listen to it super loud the time, no louder on average than when it had the old 75w/ch amp but the realism and dynamics have improved tremendously. It has the headroom to produce the musical peaks and the whole dynamic range without sounding compressed. It's like being at a live performance and I'm not meaning that its super loud.

skidaddy88

ihatecars, thanks for the insights...I think what you are saying supports my plan, but maybe i will stick with the XD700/5, since I see a nice price on it (Amazon) rather than downgrading to say a 400/4.

Only question. Can I really send 125 W to these stock front stage speakers (20W rated), and not blow them, even with conservative filtering? My immediate need now is an amp.

Probably you are all cringing at the idea of not just going IB and good AM front stage components from the start...but my system now is barely audible, as the stock amp is kaput...no time to plan further. So, I'll take the financial hit of having to redo the sub later...with more time to plan this stage, Just unscrew the box, sell on ebay, take the wire, and connect to the IB system construction, correct?

Or, should I get amp and front stage speakers now, run the stock sub (ugh) and build the IB over the next 4-6 months? maybe this is a better plan? I might take a crack at a DIY IB, since it is mostly "crafting" work, which I'm good at, and the installer will have already connected the factory sub back to the amp.

Here are my options I plan to discuss w/ installer, want to decide by Friday. Let me know any issues with these, and which you prefer. Thanks so much again to everyone, you guys are a great community!:

Option 1: JLXD700/5, ipod integration, JL front components. JL amp to front stage, OEM amp to center channel and rears, Installer decide which Amp is suitable for factory sub. Take on IB sub baffle project over the next 6 months as DIY.

Option 2: JLXD700/5, ipod integration, 8"TypeR box sub in side of trunk. JL to stock front stage and new sub. OEM amp to center channel and rears. Stage 2 project later to hawk some good components on this forum, and upgrade sub IB as DIY (can take longer to do)


Pohljm, I may be peppering you with questions in a few months, I see no reason to reinvent the wheel on your sub set up. As I write this, Option 1 may make more sense if it doesn't damage anything.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Sending 125w to the speakers and having an amp that says 125rms (capable) is a totally different ballgame. You're speakers won't see 1/4 of that power 99% of the time. The 700/5 is a solid amp and you'll be just fine with it. Set the gain properly, set the HPF appropriately and you'll be set. If you want to play around with your budget, then look at 5 channel amps that are still solid, but without the price of JL. The kenwood xr-5 comes to mind

I read this thread very half assed lol.....too many repetitive questions were going on here and I got burnt out lol. It looks like you're on a pretty strict budget correct? The JL XD amps are solid for the money and small. Is there cheaper? Yes, but they've got a good track record, do rated and cleanly and will last ya. Best of all they meet your size requirement and will do an entire system!

Since you're on a budget, why are you looking at JL speakers? Nothing against them, but there are many other options for better pricing. What else does the shop have? Or are you buying this and taking it to them? $1,000 for the 700/5, ISimple and a 8" type-R is bank for them. WAY overpriced if you ask me. Hell...I'm in it for not much more than that. I would ask them to install amp kit and leave wires in the back. If you don't feel confident about pulling the door panels, possibly and likely cutting the sheet metal to fit the mid/woofer, etc..then have them put those in and run the speaker wire to under the seat where you want the amp. That shouldn't run much and you can certainly purchase and hook up the amp I'd hope.

Once you have some time and feel like tackling the IB project if that's what you wanna do, then learn how to pull the panels off the front doors and at that time you can start doing a little deadening/sealing. You should be able to put something decent together for that budget and have someone install some or most of it.

skidaddy88

Trunk monkey, i deserve the abuse! I talked to installer, and some other guys at the shop. they have an ok (not great) price on the alpine type R components, which sounded quite good to me in the shop for the front end. So, I bought the JL XD700 myself on Amazon, they couldn't match the price, the components, wires, iPod integration, etc from the shop, and they're installing everything. They'll leave me wires for the rear sub if I choose to DIY this later. It fits my price for now. Is it a great deal? No, but they're a reputable shop, and I do like the fact that their choices (other than the sub) were relatively aligned with the TL community

I'll update you all end of next week when it's done.

I can still change my mind on the speakers, if anyone thinks I'm doing something totally silly.


Thanks again.

pohljm

Thats what I would do. add 5 channel amp and front components.
I am living in one of those 100 year old houses as well and with those skills you can DIY a IB baffle easy. I am running one of those cheap pyle subs. but in the meantime even without a sub it will sound better than OEM setup. Add a sub later DIY.

amd64bit

Im having same problems with my stock amp as well, whats weird is that it seems to work better when its warm than when its cold.. i have an alpine type r 12 in a huge ported box tapped into the stock sub line and after some tuning it sounds very balanced and clear, WHEN the stock amp is working(btw everything else is stock too). Me im not worried about trunk space and i tend to like alot of thump,so i wouldnt suggest this sub for you from what ur describing.

Im working with a bit less of a budget to fix this and have been considering just ordering another stock amp, but im having difficulties finding where to get one. Does anyone know where to find em??

skidaddy88

amd64bit, this is exactly my symptom as well, it is worse on colder days, so I can't diagnose for certain when it happened (I moved the car from PR, which never goes below 70 F). On cold days, I have max volume, and cant hear my ipod through the cassette adaptor, which forces me to listen to XM.

I need to tell you, I'm not completely 100% the amp is the problem, won't know for sure until these guys are done. If it's the head unit, I will be pissed....and broke. If it's the battery, no big deal, but the wife will be pissed. ( a little part of me has always wanted a nice system in my car, and this amp issue was the excuse I needed to do it)

I did see a stock amp on ebay, used for $200. If you can wait till end of next week, I will update this post, install is wednesday. Then, I'll know for sure that the amp corrected the issue.

pohljm

Test the output from headunit before replacing amp!

amd64bit

Yes please do let me know, ive been having similar suspicions on whether its the deck or amp as well. It just now started getting cold down here in louisiana so im sufferin. Hey mayb i should find an amp warmer huh lol=P

skidaddy88

Just a doublecheck: I'll just download and burn a one kHz tone on a CD, play it in my car to make sure it works, then unplug the 20 pin connector going into the amp. I should be able to get the multimeter probe into any of the 5 channel outputs from the HU there. And I should expect to see ~0.8-1 v on my low AC volt setting on my multimeter with the HU at full volume, correct?


Hmm...assumed the installer would have checked this if it was in doubt, but the more I read about installers on this forum....

skidaddy88

Just checked the HU output through the 20 pin connector. Both left and right channels showing 0.12 V on my multimeter (set to max 2 V AC) on max volume when playing a 1kHz test tone. I adjusted volume down, and the voltage scaled down and up as expected .looks like I'm back to square 1. Good thing Amazon will take my amp back!


Unless I'm missing a calculation, but I don't think there is one. I should be seeing 0.8-1.0 on max volume, correct, the measured voltage is simply the amplitude of the sine wave on the test tone?

Any ideas what to do? take to the acura dealer? Good source for like-for-like stock? Looks like it's time to search...Pohljm, thanks for the last minute heads up!

pohljm

Hopefully someone can let you know what a healthy OEM headunit puts out. I do not have those numbers, but your assumed numbers seem correct. You may want to start another thread with that as a title just to see if you get any responses.

skidaddy88

Never got clear answer on if my HU output was/was not OK, so took it to acura dealer. The tech there listened to the system, didn't have any theories on the cause (said this has never happened), but felt there was enough signal from HU to drive a good quality amp. Also told me about HU replacement options which were all very bad and costly.

So I rolled the dice, and went ahead as planned with the JL XD 700/5 install and front component upgrades to alpine Type R, and I'm very pleased with the results! Disclaimer: this is my first aftermarket system outside of a simple 1DIN headunit, so I don't have any real comparison, e

The Type R's look very stock, and the amp is tucked away under passenger seat. Center channel still on stock amp. Installer went ahead and put stock sub (and I think the rear stage, but need to check) on the amp with conservative filter/gain settings, so I'll post an update in a few months to confirm the stock rear speakers/sub can or cannot hold up.

Installer actually followed my instructions, tested outputs, and felt the stock amp was definitely the issue, not the HU...so I clearly did something wrong testing the output signals from the HU...maybe my test signal was not at 0 dB.

I can hear now how even a moderate sub upgrade will really complete the picture, but I almost don't need it...as is, it's a massive improvement over the stock system from when it was functioning normally, let alone when it decided to go "cold and quiet". Now getting same volume at 9 as i was at max (40) before.

Very pleased with the job done by installer, and very addicted to the much fuller, high quality sound in my car! Only lesson was that I forgot to specify where I wanted the ipod connection, and he put it in the console, but with no groove to allow for exposed iphone w/ console door closed. I will ask them to fix this.

Very happy with SQ through the isimple, it is now far better than the XM source...I may cancel XM subscription, and go spotify/slacker/itunes from here on out, once i find a good iphone mount solution.

PohlJM, thanks for the inspiration on this, and thanks to others for your help along the way...

Bottom line lessons for the acura community:

1. if your stock system gets quiet, and is worse in the cold, drop in a nice aftermarket class D amp under the seats, put some front component speakers in while your at it, and tell your wife those stock amp sound gremlins forced your hand.

2. Another +1 for JL XD amps...look for Amazon sales to get the 700/5 for ~$375.

3. The 4 ohM Alpine Type R front components seem to be a nice RMS match to this amp...but take this one loosely since I have no basis for comparison.

pohljm

I would suggest bridging the amp to your front components and running the rears off of the OEM amp for rear fill if you ever want some. I never use mine at all.

I hate cars

I can't believe I didn't answer clearly in my post. I guess in my head I had already made up my mind it was the factory amp. Volume getting low and worse in the cold, sometimes accompanied by noise in the cold is almost always the factory amp. It's becoming very common.

I think you made a great choice with a simple but high quality small class D under the seats and decent speakers. I still have a pair of 5.25" Type S speakers I bought for the center channel and used one for about a month if you're interested. I don't really suggest it but the offer is there. Just an FYI, as long as you use a relatively shallow speaker, you can fit just about anything in the center. I had a shallow 6.5" in there with no mods to the car back when I had the MS8.

skidaddy88

pohlJM..I didn't dive into the details enough into your post to see that you bridged , and used all 4 non sub channels for front stage....

As much as i'd like to say i'm happy as a clam, the thought of more power.....I can see now how this audio game is a very slippery slope!

If I bridge, I'll obviously need to retune the gain and filters, and put the rears back on the stock amp...not sure I have the stomach now, but maybe i'll get bored between xmas and new years, since I'm using up vacation time. I'll probably mess with the sub upgrade first, then decide to bridge the fronts...Just curious, did you happen to try both bridged vs. just running off 1 channel per front? How much better is SQ with 2X power to each front with our HU-amp combo on aftermarket 4 ohm speakers?

pohljm

only bridged! never considered sending aftermarket power to the rear speakers which i do not ever use. you cannot have to much power going to the front components. will make you more happy! your using crossovers correct?

Sutitan

Any pics of the install.

Im suffering similar issues, and was about to make a thread where everyone would yell at me to use the search feature. My amp has to be between 30-40 to be listenable to. I also have the issue of the amp hissing.

Ive been looking at the JL, but I cant dont have an idea of where it can be installed and how. Would it require any carpet cutting to fit under the passenger seat? Also, is there any issue with running the stock speakers with the aftermarket amp? im completely new to audio, and need quite a bit more of reading before I can tackle this, but I want to get started sometime early january.

I hate cars

No cutting required. It will work fine with stock speakers as long as you're nice with the gains and highpass crossover points. It will add clarity and dynamics even while using the stock speakers.

Sutitan

If you feel this may be more appropriate in my own thread, let me know, and ill remove this comment and just start my own.

I was looking at this image
https://i.imgur.com/DORtX.jpg

So there are 5 channels
1 and 2 would be connected to the door speakers and tweeters
3 and 4 would be to the rear 6.5's
Sub connections going to the sub.
The center speaker connection would remain on the stock amp.

Next is power. Run 4awg cable, fused, to the amp. Ground to a close point to the amp.

Input mode is 2 ch, so take the L and R channels from the HU and splice them to RCA audio cables and plug them into the CH1 and CH2 on the new amp.

Next would be setting up gain and filtering. Im assuming for channels 1-4 to set up a conservative HP filter (so between 120 and 200?) and play around with gain?

For the sub, set up a conservative LP filter, somwhere from the 80-120 notches, and play with the gain.

My only real question if I got everything else right, is how to set up channels 1 and 2, with both the door speakers and tweeters. For example, Channel 1 would be the left door speaker and left tweeter. the tweeter is 4ohms, and the door is 2 ohms. Paralleled, they would be 1.333 ohms, which is too small. Should the be wired in series for 6ohms. is this a reason for concern?

Also, should any of the wires be upgraded? or can they simply be removed from the old amp and run to the new one.

Edit: went back and read older comments...
So it seems as is, the tweeters and door speakers are already in series. I guess my only big concern is using the stock wires and knowing how to set the gain (I dont want to be blowing speakers).

skidaddy88

I have no problems adding to this thread. Pohljm thread is referenced at the top, along with a deathby toasters?? thread that is linked in the audio FAQ sticky.

I was very impatient, and while I'm happy with my choices on the amp/speakers, I'm not sure I have the optimal wiring config/install. Seems they amped front and rears from the 4 channels on my JL, while most here seem to think amping the stock rears is not really worth it.

What's your budget?

Seems the simplest solution with stock speakers is a 4 channel under the seat to amp fronts and sub, and use stock speaker wires.

mle724

Thanks for the info gents. My '04 TL w/NAV is all factory stock and I just started experiencing this a few days ago. Morning temps have been in the low 50s and highs for the day in the 80s. The drive to work has the volume at max and sounds like it is on 2 or 3. It improves greatly during the high temp of the day, but still no full volume. It impacts everything, including the Nav voice. Thought I was losing my hearing at first. trying to decide what I am going to do, but at least I know it's not just me.

Slpr04UA6

^

This website below fixed my amp, and were very helpful in describing what I was experiencing. I had low volume even when cranked. You could always call them and ask if they have any suggestions..
It cost $125 to fix amp.

Carstereohelp.com

mle724

Update...
Purchased a used amp ($85) from AckTL05 and installed it this morning. took less than 30 minutes, and working great!

chefboyardee

You can fix this yourself if you are handy with a soldering iron. I had the same problem and fixed it by replacing all the 5mm capacitors in the amp. It took maybe two hours and the parts would cost maybe $20 tops. Let me know if you want a howto.

chefboyardee

I posted the howto here:

https://acurazine.com/forums/audio-b...volume-922588/

Hope it helps!