I am going to overhaul my current system so to speak. While i am quite happy with it, its not living up to my expectations... especially after the amount of time i put into it.

I also have some noise issue which i hope to resolve by bypassing the factory amp and going straight from the head unit into the 3sixty.1 (thinking about upgrading to the ms8 but not sure if i will need to do so.)

I own two boston G5's 12" DVC and have one of them currently installed in almost a IB setup but it has a sealed box. It never sounded really good until i made sure the the front is as isolated from the back as it can be. Being the reason i think IB will work amazingly.

I am not sure but i dont think the boston's will be good for an IB setup so im leaning towards an IDMAX 12 which i think will be plenty for me as i want mostly accurate and deep sounding bass. Dont mind it getting loud but not my goal.

I have two alpine pdx ampflieres. One is a 600 watts mono and the other is a 4channel with 100rms per channel. Thinking to bridge and only power the front stage. ALso thinking to have factory speakers installed in the back for rear fill as opposte to components that i have now.

I appreciate everybody's input and thoughts on it. This is third time im redoing it and hoping i can finally get it right.

 

What don't you like about your current setup? What components are your currently running for your front stage?

What does almost IB mean? Sounds interesting. Can you post a picture of it?

A single IDmax 12" will sound awesome in an IB setup, but you might as well try one or both of your Boston's IB first to see if you like it. Once you have your baffle built it should be easy to switch out subs if it doesn't sound good.

G5

Re 3.0/ 6.0
Fs 20Hz
Qes .40
Qms 2.1
Qts .34
Vas 5.81 cuft
Xmax 24.9mm
Sd 545 cm2
Spl 93.1dB/88 dB 1w/1mG.P./SPLi

Pwr 1000 Watts RMS POWER

 

its front firing trough the ski pass...and it has a similar front face of the enclosure that was posted on the forum from IB installs and it is completely sealed off from the back.The only thing is that it still has a sealed enclosure behind it. Not really an IB but similar concept.

I have CDT audio components upfront. It was actually a set for $ 200 on woofersetc.com but i upgraded the midrange speaker to the EOS 06 drivers which handle up to 200 watts rms.

Im thinking to go all Image Dynamics

So basically IDMAX 12 and CXS64 V2

 

Ah okay. What's the enclosure volume on that?

I think you'll be very happy with that setup. Mine is very similar and I think it sounds terrific. I can personally vouch for the single IDmax 12 in IB and I really like the ID XS-65's which shouldn't sound much different from the CXS set. There are several others (Trunk Monkey, Pohljm...) who are running the CXS set and can probably chime in on their experiences.

I'd definitely bridge your amp to the front components and run the rears off the stock amp.

 

it was built to specs. 1 cubic foot exact. How much power are you feeding each sub ??

 

also if you dont mind me asking... but is one loud enough ?? Im not looking to shake the car but i do want to feel the low's

 

The subs you have now look like they would be fine for IB.

If the front of the box is already sealed to the car, you can always remove the rear of the box to get a taste of IB. You might like it good enough to keep the subs you have now. It looks like you will have about the same displacement with one Max vs two of your current subs. 400w should be plenty for whatever setup you go with.

I owned and liked the CTX components, supposedly the CXS are better in every way. They will take a lot of power and sound good. Just a thought since you're in the buying stages, I would never go with a 6.5" again after experiencing 10s in my doors. I know that's pretty bold but it's a world of difference and I was running some of the best 6.5s on the planet before I went with the 10s. I would at least do an 8" in the doors for a 2-way setup with a tweeter that can play down to 2khz cleanly. They're just better in every way. The 6.5s will be fine but I thought I would throw that out there since you haven't bought anything yet. The larger speakers will sound more natural and will have better dynamics than the 6.5s. They're slightly harder to install of course but not bad. I spent a lot of money searching for midbass dynamics and punch and no 6.5" could give it to me.

Unfortunately for your noise problems.... the older 3sixty had noise floor issues as did the early PDX amps. That's information I've heard on the internet, not personal experience.... The stock amp will add a hiss into the system as well so it's safe to say you will get rid of some of the noise, hopefully all of it, but don't be too surprised if it's still there.

 

Yea some strong midbass is what i was always missing.... do you think i should go with two of them or just one.... I have one sitting in the closet. Wouldnt mind using it but it would add some weight... one weighs 35lbs, similar to an IDmax. is 600 watts enough for two of them. I could wire them into a final 4 ohm load which should make the pdx very happy as it gets pretty hot under two ohm load. even though it puts out same wattage at either load.

 

I can vouch for noise problems on both the 3sixty.2 AND the early PDX models. The early PDX's have some crazy high noise floors as everything seems to get through to them. I've got an idea for ya...sell the 2 PDX amps and purchase the new pdx-v9. Same specs, newer w/ no noise and only 1 amp to run. There are some solid 5-channels that will take our signal without problems which also might be an option instead of a processor. If you're just starting out, the ms-8 is great. Easy to work with and doable in price.

 

Id rather not spend much money if i dont have to. I think the subs are decent, if they are going to play good in an IB setup im not sure yet...

3sixty as oppose to the ms8 is about 400 dollars difference if i sell it.

I would like to upgrade the components tough. Then again the cdt's sound good . If i can sell them then i might.

The amps never gave me a problem... i had different amps before and the noise was always the same... even before the 3sixty. So I think the the stock amplifier is the culprit.

Still thinking if i should put 2 subs in there again. at 35 lbs each im at seventy plus amps and panelling... ill be over 100 punds easy...

 

Manufacturers' recommendations are usually on the small side. 1 cubic foot would give you a Qtc of .89 and a fairly steep roll off below 60hz. You'd get a better low-end response with a bigger box or by going IB.

I was running the single IDmax with 900 watts @ 2ohms. The dual IDmax's are getting 1300 watts @ 1ohm. The Max's are efficient subs and are even more efficient in IB so you can run them off a lot less power than that.

One IDmax should give you more than enough output and plenty of low end. It also should be able to shake your car pretty good. The only reason I got the second one was because it wouldn't take up any additional trunk space in IB and $170 for a BNIB IDmax was too good to pass up.

 

g5 is a hell of a sub.

You're not getting the most u can out of them in a sealed enclosure.

Port them before writing them off.

 

any one of you guys concerned about the weight??

 

I am a little, I try to break even weight wise with everything I do.

Weight gained:

Subs- 17lbs x2.
Baffle- 7lbs.
Amps- 6.8lbs x2
Mids- 1lb x2
Midbass- 5lbs x2
Tweeters- .3lb x2
Door metal lost... lol

Weight lost:

Stock sub
Stock mids and tweeters
Stock amp
Trunk lid weight


With just the weight of the components, the weight gain isn't bad at all. The sound deadener is hurts. I estimate 150lbs, it would be easy to figure up.

 

Nah. I don't race or anything so I don't care unless it would severely affect my gas mileage. If you're concerned about weight then you should definitely use birch plywood instead of MDF for your baffle. It's about twice as light.

 

Two of your subs weigh less then one G5. Which is 35 pounds.

 

I dont race either but this car has very little low end torque abd when it becomes heavy it also becomes very boring to drive

 

That's one advantage of an IB specific sub, they can use a smaller motor if needed although some are heavy. The thing I really like about them is the moving mass (Mms) is only 150g which is lighter than many 10s. Good luck with the build, let me know if I can help.

 

J-pipe mod

 

Lol. When I switched from a pair of 12W6s in a bandpass enclosure to the IB15s infinite baffle, I had to re-aim my headlights, they were pointing like 5 feet in front of me.

I think the IDMax would be excellent in IB, it's been proven many times and output will be good. Don't forget about Fi. There's the Fi3 IB specific sub in 12-18" sizes. They have about 30mm xmax so a single 15 would be like 1-3/4 IDMaxes in output. A pair of them would be awesome. I don't know about sound quality, I've seen good and bad reviews. I believe they do better when lowpassed pretty low based on the reviews so you probably want a good midbass speaker. They're not that expensive either.

You can always do a single Fi 18". The baffle would have to be slightly angled but you would still use very little trunk space and with the huge xmax, you would have the output of a pair of regular 15s so it would be good from a weight savings and cost standpoint since only one would be required.

You can always get the AE IB15. They're being made again along with the SBP15. The IB15 is under $200 and is without a doubt one of the best IB subs in the world. They're incredibly power efficient, have excellent SQ and extremely low distortion. TS parameters have very little change as the stroke increases and they have 19mm xmax and 25mm xmech so displacement is good as well. I can't see myself ever changing this setup. The downside of course is that wait times can be long but you can use your current subs for now and if you don't like them, place an order for the AEs.

 

I started the process of removing everything in the back. I took out the back seats and the sub, amps and started preparing little by little for the new setup. I drove around today just to see how the car feels with all that weight removed which was not that much but then some. As far as acceleration goes, yes she felt lighter and a little quicker i guess but nothing drastic that would point me in a different direction of interest. What improved drastically was the handling, I couldn't believe how much easier i was hugging corners and with so much less body roll, the car felt so much more controlled and predictable. Lots of fun that could only get me in trouble so im still going for the IB install .


The IDMAX seems very appealing to me, never experienced it but trough the years it was one of the most respected drivers out there. Considering it weighs less then the current Boston G5 that i have (which i couldnt believe and still dont but it says so on the specs around the internet websites) and has the output that would be most likely plenty for me... Since it is very efficent i hope the pdx 600.1 can feed it with enough power. Thinking to get the 12" DVC 2ohm to have a final 4 ohm load. The PDX as i said outputs the same wattage at 1 2 4 ohm loads. I thing it would be easier on the amp.

My Plan is to start working on the front stage first. For the rear fill im gonna put stock speakers back in and run that of the factory amp and center channel as well for the HFL. I wanna get the preamp from the factory head unit to hopefully get rid of the noise. I guess i gotta solder female connects for the front left and right and also sub wires.

Im wondering if i should put the processor in the trunk or somewhere closer.
What are your thoughts on it ?? should i stick with the 3sixty or is it worth upgrading to the JBL MS8.

You mentioned doing maybe 8" drivers in the doors... how do you control the crossover points.

The other amp is a PDX 4 channel which im looking to bridge for 200 watts for each side.

Now I gotta decide on the Speakers or maybe keep mine ill see. I could never feed them the right power because of the noise it produced while bringing the gains up.

I will post some pictures which i took today while taking out the old setup.

 

what do you guys think of the Boston SPG555

I cant find any exact specs on it but on there brochure it says :

Versatile design works in small sealed,
ported alignments, and even free air!



http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...-SPG555-4.html

its 279 free shipping, compared to woofersetc.com which is 449 but msrp is 699.

would the IDMAX still be better. Somehow i still believe so but its 399.99, so this one is 120 cheaper and only 26lbs !!

The G5 sounds very good, im sure this one wouldn't disappoint.

 

Just about any sub that sounds good in a sealed box will be fine IB so don't worry about their sales literature too much. Most won't recommend it because people will go out and put the full thermal power rating to it with no subsonic filter and bottom it, meaning more warranty claims.

The IDMax is a proven performer in IB. If you want to know the output potential, it's as easy as multiplying the cone area (Sd) by the maximum excursion (xmax or xmech). It's as simple as that. You're not going to find many subs in the same size that will match the Max's output.

Not only is the sub efficient but IB is very efficient compared to sealed. 300w to each sub is more than enough, it will get you the same output down low as 1,000w will in a factory recommended sized sealed box.

The 13" Boston sub has 555cm^2 of cone area, the IDMax has 545cm^2, hardly a difference worth worrying about. The Max has 26mm one way linear excursion and 45mm full mechanical excursion. You could always do a 12W7 which has about the same cone area and more excursion or even a 13W7 .

Just for fun, here are some displacement numbers at xmax and xmech of various subs that work extremely well in IB.

IDMax- Xmax- 13,407 Xmech- 24,535
12W6- Xmax- 8534 Xmech 12,550
13W6- Xmax-14,256
12W7- Xmax 15,718
13W7- Xmax- 22,176 Xmech (est) 41,580
IB15 Xmax- 15,770 Xmech- 20,750

For fun:
Boston Acoustics Xmax- 12,210

These numbers show how the subs will compare to one another in SPL in the lowest notes. You can see the IB specific sub of the group does not have as big of a gap from xmax to xmech, partly because the suspension is designed to reel things in so there is no bottoming if the user gets carried away. A single 12W7 has about the same linear output as my 15s. A 13W7 has insane linear and total output. My experience with the JL subs is they sound good and the motor and suspension remains extremely quiet, practically silent all the way to their mechanical limits. The IDMax will start to have some suspension noise before it's mechanical limits.

A single 13W6 is a good alternative to a single IDMax 12 as well but for the price, the Max is going to be hard to beat.

Just throwing stuff out there but the numbers will at least give you an idea of the output potential of each sub.

 

I haven't heard it, but here are the T/S specs:

Thiele-Small Parameters
Model: SPG555-4

Fs (Hz): 31.90
Re (Ohms): 3.15
Oms: 11.66
Oes: 0.86
Ots: 0.80
Vas (Liters): 39.77
Mms (Grams): 276.7
Cms (j.JMINewton): 89.9
Xmax(Mm): 22
Xmech (Mm): 49
Sd (CM 2): 555
BI (Tesla-M): 14.27
SPL Eff (dB @ 1wI1m): 83.6
SPL Sen (dB @ 2.83v): 87.7

Looks like it will have almost as much displacement as the IDmax (2,442cm3 vs. 2,725cm3). As far as IB, the Fs is pretty high so you might have some trouble getting it to play low and the Qts is on the high side too, so it's going to be underdamped.

If you decide to go with the IDmax you might want to wait around to see if there's another sale. Sonic had the IDmax 12's for $229 a couple weeks ago. The 10's are still on sale for $199 or you can get two 10's from Sonic off of Ebay for $389. If you went with two 10's you'd get about one and a half times the displacement of a single 12. I know people don't usually go with 10's IB, but the IDmax 10's have an Fs of 20hz and you'll have plenty of xmax to work with.

I've also seen a lot of used ones up for sale on DIYMA that have sold pretty cheap ($150-200).

 

Ok noobie question. Isnt IB the same as a sealed box without the cone control? Isolating the front wave from the back just in different ways?

 

It's the same as a very large sealed box but it has more cone control. The air spring of a small box reduces cone control, not increase it which is what many don't understand. The air spring can cause cone overshoot. The box does reduce efficiency on the low end where in IB you use a subsonic filter to do the same thing electrically instead of mechanically, greatly increasing efficiency.

 

Yes, the overall output potential will be the same, but IB will reach the same output with less power. It iis true that IB does not have the air spring of a sealed box. The air spring, however, does not provide cone control per se. It acts as a high pass filter by limiting the excursion of the speaker in the lower frequencies. A sealed box raises the Qtc and decreases the damping factor which can have a negative effect on transient response.

 

I guess I'm the echo today. I've gotta learn to type faster

 

Its been so long that i have touched anything in this car as far as audio
so if someone can just verify if this is correct..

IN
@ the Stereo Amplifier in the passenger kick panel in the 20 pin Black & White connector

Right Front + Black
Right Front - Gray
Left Front + Green
Left Front - Blue
C+ Brown
C- Greeen w/White
RR+ Orange
RR- Red
LR+ White
LR- Yellow
SW+ Red w/Blue
SW- White w/Green

Remote Turn-on -> Red w/Yellow
Amp Mute -> Yellow w/Green


OUT

@ the Stereo Amplifier in the passenger kick panel with the 14 pin gray connector contains the speaker outputs if you want to utilize the factory wiring.

Right Front + Blue
Right Front - Red
Left Front + Light Green
Left Front - Purple
C+ Green w/White
C- Blue w/Yellow
RR+ Red w/Blue
RR- Yellow
LR+ Brown w/White
LR- Red w/Yellow
SW+ Yellow w/Black
SW- Light Green w/Red

Ground -> Black
+12V -> White

 

Yup.

 

I found a four channel female rca's that are part of the navone LOC




Im wondering if I should use that to splice into the stock head unit for the front channels and one for the sub. Or should i do it differently ??

I would cut them half way and then splice and solder on top of it. From there run a 4 channel rca's to the trunk.

By the way which RCA's do you guys recommend. I dont feel like spending to much money if its not needed.

 

I also found 3 female Rca's connectors from radio shack in my drawer. Maybe im better of soldering directly but im not sure if its worth the hassle ...

 

I am thinking maybe these.... I have stinger helix cable already but they are short, gonna use them from the processor to the amp anyways.

So these maybe??

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...er-SI4612.html

 

Monoprice for cables

 

Ok I just talked to a really nice lady from sonicelectronix.com

And she offered me the IDMAX v3 D2 12" and the 6channel cable from stinger which is 26.99 and original price from the IDMAX 399.99

for 331.94 shipped to the door. the sub is 304.99

I know its not the sale price that i missed for 229 but comparing to the current prices it is still almost a $ 100.00 discount.

Should i jump on it ??

 

Do it! Just don't blame me if they go on sale again next week

 

Unless you're in a hurry....I'd build everything and then see what happens with the price. I HIGHLY doubt it's going to go up (the sub I mean).....

Maybe you'll catch another sale. Plenty of places for cables so don't let that drive you into a "i should buy this now" type of situation. They'll make you that offer forever. Especially if you tell the guy to write in the notes that he's making you that offer. They'll be able to see when you called and what he offered you. Jerry (Neibur3) on here is a great guy to go to if your looking to purchase something and want his prices. Great customer service and loyal guy. Monoprice is also a good place for cheap cables. Not bad quality at all, just a little stiff on the jacket. If you don't need them to wiggle around (which you shouldn't anyways!) then they might work. I run their digital coax's for my RCA's.

 

Matt, what about those AE15's? are we doing a group purchase? Bukva may want to get in on that too?

 

^

 

I would be interested...