Rate my set up and recommend an AMP
#1
Cruisin'
Thread Starter
Rate my set up and recommend an AMP
Planning on puting into my TL.
2 10" JL AUDIO W3V2s
JL AUDIO TR690 6 x 9 3 Way Component Speakers
JL AUDIO C3-650 6.5 3 Way Component Speakers
I purchased a JVC double din but after the purchase price and the custom dash kit install I am over $1000 so I might keep it stock and the guy said something about some kind of upgrade to the stock unit?
I love the double din navigation but its a lot to spend for so little. Any thoughts?
Also - I was recommended to get the JL HD 900/5 Amp. Its pretty damn expensive, similar alternatives for less?
2 10" JL AUDIO W3V2s
JL AUDIO TR690 6 x 9 3 Way Component Speakers
JL AUDIO C3-650 6.5 3 Way Component Speakers
I purchased a JVC double din but after the purchase price and the custom dash kit install I am over $1000 so I might keep it stock and the guy said something about some kind of upgrade to the stock unit?
I love the double din navigation but its a lot to spend for so little. Any thoughts?
Also - I was recommended to get the JL HD 900/5 Amp. Its pretty damn expensive, similar alternatives for less?
#5
Cruisin'
Thread Starter
Haha no just a local audio shot. I had JL back in high school and was pretty happy. I researched and researched until my head started spinning - seems like so many directions you can go (JL, POLK, DA, BOSTON) -
They all have good reviews and are recommended in different forums so I decided to do the JL outfit. You see what I am ballpark spending so I am looking for anything you dont agree with or something better for a little more.
I think I will ditch the HU and get a processor, but the color of a NAV looks so sexy its gonna be hard.
They all have good reviews and are recommended in different forums so I decided to do the JL outfit. You see what I am ballpark spending so I am looking for anything you dont agree with or something better for a little more.
I think I will ditch the HU and get a processor, but the color of a NAV looks so sexy its gonna be hard.
#7
Coolest A-zine Member
iTrader: (1)
My take:
1. Ditch Double Din
2. Ditch rears all together
3. Ditch those fronts and use the money from rears to buy a nicer 6.5" component set
4. 900/5 is a nice amp but super pricey for the small power it offers
I had 12 w3's and didn't really like them at all. They were in my custom built box at 30hz and 3cubes total. They sounded decent but didn't have any balls. The w3 and w6 aren't made to blow people away while going down the street. The Dcon's will get louder and SQ will be close enough to the same it seems. Plenty of budget subs that will outperform the w3's. Take a look at Dcon, Dayton HO, ARC12 or ARC10, Idq, or even IB (infinite baffle) if you want to save space and still get great SQ and low end.
1. Ditch Double Din
2. Ditch rears all together
3. Ditch those fronts and use the money from rears to buy a nicer 6.5" component set
4. 900/5 is a nice amp but super pricey for the small power it offers
I had 12 w3's and didn't really like them at all. They were in my custom built box at 30hz and 3cubes total. They sounded decent but didn't have any balls. The w3 and w6 aren't made to blow people away while going down the street. The Dcon's will get louder and SQ will be close enough to the same it seems. Plenty of budget subs that will outperform the w3's. Take a look at Dcon, Dayton HO, ARC12 or ARC10, Idq, or even IB (infinite baffle) if you want to save space and still get great SQ and low end.
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#9
Cruisin'
Thread Starter
I guess I should have mentioned what I am after...
I dont want to blow anyone away these days - my girlfriend and neighbors will kill me.
I want awesome sounding mids/high with a good punchy bass. I dont need to rattle the car next to me off the road. Thats why I opted for the 10's.
Here is what I paid so far, but I am defiantly willing to switch things up based on your recommendations.
2 10" JL AUDIO W3V2s $200 (Craigslist hardly used in box)
JL AUDIO TR690 6 x 9 3 Way Component Speakers $105 (New)
JL AUDIO C3-650 6.5 3 Way Component Speakers $215 (New)
I am going to have a custom built trunk to save room for the golf clubs
Everyone saying ditch the rears? Why? TELL ME WHAT TO DO )) Im willing to spend the money just want some direction.
I dont want to blow anyone away these days - my girlfriend and neighbors will kill me.
I want awesome sounding mids/high with a good punchy bass. I dont need to rattle the car next to me off the road. Thats why I opted for the 10's.
Here is what I paid so far, but I am defiantly willing to switch things up based on your recommendations.
2 10" JL AUDIO W3V2s $200 (Craigslist hardly used in box)
JL AUDIO TR690 6 x 9 3 Way Component Speakers $105 (New)
JL AUDIO C3-650 6.5 3 Way Component Speakers $215 (New)
I am going to have a custom built trunk to save room for the golf clubs
Everyone saying ditch the rears? Why? TELL ME WHAT TO DO )) Im willing to spend the money just want some direction.
#11
Dogmatic Dinosaur
Those 10w3 can be ok in a ported box with about 600W max. I had some of those exact same subs with a MTX 2300 (from craigslist also) and they had some authority and decent sound quality. However, they needed a big box. I mean 25% more than what JL recommends. Aim small, miss small with JL box sizes on these things... from my experience.
Those C3 and TR will sound better than stock, but they are not great.
The 3G TL rears are 6.5s, not 6x9s.
For JL speakers, skip the rears and put that money towards some some C5s for the fronts. For the same money (or close), I would look at some Morel Tempos, Focal Polyglass or some Phass ES.
Those C3 and TR will sound better than stock, but they are not great.
The 3G TL rears are 6.5s, not 6x9s.
For JL speakers, skip the rears and put that money towards some some C5s for the fronts. For the same money (or close), I would look at some Morel Tempos, Focal Polyglass or some Phass ES.
#12
Drifting
If you already bought them, use them.
I would've def taken 2 of these
http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=SDX10
Or these
http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/s...onsAudio/DCON/
Over the w3's, though.
I would've def taken 2 of these
http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=SDX10
Or these
http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/s...onsAudio/DCON/
Over the w3's, though.
#13
Cruisin'
Thread Starter
So its 6.5 all around?
Everyone keeps saying ditch the rears - is it not work it to do rears or just not with the TR's? What if I got C5's all around.
2 pairs going on ebay for 589
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-PAIRS-JL-A...item519a95e10d
Everyone keeps saying ditch the rears - is it not work it to do rears or just not with the TR's? What if I got C5's all around.
2 pairs going on ebay for 589
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-PAIRS-JL-A...item519a95e10d
#14
Three Wheelin'
People say to ditch them because they're really just for rear passengers. They just screw with the stereo image for the front passengers. Why spend money on something that will be off most of the time?
#15
Coolest A-zine Member
iTrader: (1)
^ This. All they do is mess up the true stereo image and will likely create more problems in the sound (think processing, wavelengths, etc). I'd sell both of those speakers and use that money on a nice set of 6.5" components....like I said.
If you already purchased the w3's then use them. If you don't like them...sell them on DIYMA or locally. People have boners for JL Audio stuff b/c it's one of the best "locally sold" brands and that's all "normal" people know lol. Love mine and the w6 is tried and true as an awesome SQ competitor but there's SOO much out there these days so it's always a toss up.
To bad you're not local, I've got my box for the w3's I could sell ya.
If you already purchased the w3's then use them. If you don't like them...sell them on DIYMA or locally. People have boners for JL Audio stuff b/c it's one of the best "locally sold" brands and that's all "normal" people know lol. Love mine and the w6 is tried and true as an awesome SQ competitor but there's SOO much out there these days so it's always a toss up.
To bad you're not local, I've got my box for the w3's I could sell ya.
#16
Coolest A-zine Member
iTrader: (1)
So its 6.5 all around?
Everyone keeps saying ditch the rears - is it not work it to do rears or just not with the TR's? What if I got C5's all around.
2 pairs going on ebay for 589
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-PAIRS-JL-A...item519a95e10d
Everyone keeps saying ditch the rears - is it not work it to do rears or just not with the TR's? What if I got C5's all around.
2 pairs going on ebay for 589
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-PAIRS-JL-A...item519a95e10d
#17
Cruisin'
Thread Starter
Thanks a bunch guys. Im going to take your word and get some c5 components for the front.
I know very little about car audio so it never occurred to me that the rear speakers are mainly for rear passengers. I had the impression that the front and the rears need to both be good to bring it all together. Good thing for Acurazine!
I know very little about car audio so it never occurred to me that the rear speakers are mainly for rear passengers. I had the impression that the front and the rears need to both be good to bring it all together. Good thing for Acurazine!
#18
Team Owner
Thanks a bunch guys. Im going to take your word and get some c5 components for the front.
I know very little about car audio so it never occurred to me that the rear speakers are mainly for rear passengers. I had the impression that the front and the rears need to both be good to bring it all together. Good thing for Acurazine!
I know very little about car audio so it never occurred to me that the rear speakers are mainly for rear passengers. I had the impression that the front and the rears need to both be good to bring it all together. Good thing for Acurazine!
The W3 sounds great. The W6 will be louder, sound a little better and will go lower. You may want to consider this, by dumping the rears it will almost make up the price difference. Remember that the size of the sub does not determine if it's going to be punchy, tight, hit hard, or go really low. The enclosure determines that. My pair of 15s are tighter than any 10s I've heard. The beauty of large subs is they are just as tight and musical as smaller subs but you end up with less distortion since they will have less excursion for the same SPL, they require less power for the same SPL, and they will go lower with much less power than smaller subs all while having the same punch and upper end. If you have the room and money, go larger when you can.
I love JL amps and subs but I'm not a huge fan of their components. IMO, the amps and subs are worth every penny. The comps aren't bad but I think you can get better for the money. I have the money for just about anything I want to get in car audio and I've stuck with JL for the amps, would've stuck with them for the subs when I went infinite baffle but I received some bad advice that they would not work.
You're going to run into lots of people that hate JL because it's cool to hate JL and for some add reason that blows my mind, once a product becomes mainstream and you can go down to any store and buy it, it's no longer any good. When it comes to their subs and amps, I haven't found another brand that matches JL on every front. The ZR comps are nice, you wouldn't be disappointed but you can find better for the money. I've jumped ship a couple times only to be disappointed most of the time.
I suggest the Dynaudio 242 set. You can find them used for around $500. Jerry (Niebur3 on here) is an authorized dealer and I'm sure he can hook you up. I have the 342 3-way set and they're wonderful, worth every penny. I've never been so happy with a set of speakers and they will take a TON of power while sounding excellent at any volume. If getting the Dyns or not getting them came down to going cheaper on the sub stage, I would say go cheaper on the subs so you can get the better fronts.
The following users liked this post:
adam34996 (09-13-2011)
#19
Team Owner
I just tried a Zed Leviathan which everyone loves and swapped it for the HD 600/4. IMO, no comparison between the two, the JL kills it.
#20
Drifting
#21
Team Owner
No chance. I don't believe an amp changes the sound if it's doing it's job correctly, only power has an effect. I've been one of the only people pushing that on here.
However, the noise floor is noticeably lower on the JL. With the gains maxed out, there's nothing there. The Zed had a low noise floor but it was still present.
Running the Zed unbridged, there's absolutely no doubt the HD puts out more power even though both are rated for 150w rms. Dynamics of the music on the JL is just as good as the Zed when bridged. The midbass has that same pop as the Zed did when bridged. Much better than the Mac, Interfire, the old JL, and the Zed unbridged.
At first I did not change the tune on the MS8, just hooked the JL up and level matched it so tune, MS8, and eq are out of the equation.
This is the ultimate amp for anyone wanting great power, efficiency, small size, ultra low noise floor, and more than rated power.
However, the noise floor is noticeably lower on the JL. With the gains maxed out, there's nothing there. The Zed had a low noise floor but it was still present.
Running the Zed unbridged, there's absolutely no doubt the HD puts out more power even though both are rated for 150w rms. Dynamics of the music on the JL is just as good as the Zed when bridged. The midbass has that same pop as the Zed did when bridged. Much better than the Mac, Interfire, the old JL, and the Zed unbridged.
At first I did not change the tune on the MS8, just hooked the JL up and level matched it so tune, MS8, and eq are out of the equation.
This is the ultimate amp for anyone wanting great power, efficiency, small size, ultra low noise floor, and more than rated power.
#22
Wallet raped by my
No chance. I don't believe an amp changes the sound if it's doing it's job correctly, only power has an effect. I've been one of the only people pushing that on here.
However, the noise floor is noticeably lower on the JL. With the gains maxed out, there's nothing there. The Zed had a low noise floor but it was still present.
Running the Zed unbridged, there's absolutely no doubt the HD puts out more power even though both are rated for 150w rms. Dynamics of the music on the JL is just as good as the Zed when bridged. The midbass has that same pop as the Zed did when bridged. Much better than the Mac, Interfire, the old JL, and the Zed unbridged.
However, the noise floor is noticeably lower on the JL. With the gains maxed out, there's nothing there. The Zed had a low noise floor but it was still present.
Running the Zed unbridged, there's absolutely no doubt the HD puts out more power even though both are rated for 150w rms. Dynamics of the music on the JL is just as good as the Zed when bridged. The midbass has that same pop as the Zed did when bridged. Much better than the Mac, Interfire, the old JL, and the Zed unbridged.
#23
Cruisin'
Thread Starter
Quick update. Im have 3 sets of speakers coming to me, will be selling the other 2
I decided to ditch the rears, and got some FOCAL 165A3 6-1/2" 320W 3-WAY CAR COMPONENTS.
I looking for subtle base so I am paring them with either 2 10" JL W3V2 OR 2 8" JL W3V3's.
Do I still need a 900/5 to power this setup? Would my rear deck even get hooked up to the amp if its stock? Any Amp insight is appreciated.
I decided to ditch the rears, and got some FOCAL 165A3 6-1/2" 320W 3-WAY CAR COMPONENTS.
I looking for subtle base so I am paring them with either 2 10" JL W3V2 OR 2 8" JL W3V3's.
Do I still need a 900/5 to power this setup? Would my rear deck even get hooked up to the amp if its stock? Any Amp insight is appreciated.
#24
Racer
I recommend that you keep the stock speakers for these purposes. I would experiment with levels, you want the rears to become only just slightly audible so that you don't weaken the front sound stage. For me I find the rear fill helps with road noise at highway speeds.
#25
Team Owner
Quick update. Im have 3 sets of speakers coming to me, will be selling the other 2
I decided to ditch the rears, and got some FOCAL 165A3 6-1/2" 320W 3-WAY CAR COMPONENTS.
I looking for subtle base so I am paring them with either 2 10" JL W3V2 OR 2 8" JL W3V3's.
Do I still need a 900/5 to power this setup? Would my rear deck even get hooked up to the amp if its stock? Any Amp insight is appreciated.
I decided to ditch the rears, and got some FOCAL 165A3 6-1/2" 320W 3-WAY CAR COMPONENTS.
I looking for subtle base so I am paring them with either 2 10" JL W3V2 OR 2 8" JL W3V3's.
Do I still need a 900/5 to power this setup? Would my rear deck even get hooked up to the amp if its stock? Any Amp insight is appreciated.
As for the subs, trust me on this you're better off doing a single 12" rather than two 10s. It's a win-win whether we're talking efficiency (less power required), sound quality, and it's about even in loudness. It will get lower with much less power required and be just as tight and musical as the 10s. You might be able to get a 13W3 for the same price as the pair of 10s. This would be a no-brainer.
If you decide to run the rears at all, the stock ones sound pretty good on an aftermarket amp.
I think the Focals are a good choice.
The following users liked this post:
adam34996 (09-13-2011)
#26
Three Wheelin'
I don't agree with this at all. The rears are for two purposes; rear effect channels for multi-channel, or rear fill. In no way are the rears for passengers, in fact the stock rears are only mid-bass, there are no tweeters.
I recommend that you keep the stock speakers for these purposes. I would experiment with levels, you want the rears to become only just slightly audible so that you don't weaken the front sound stage. For me I find the rear fill helps with road noise at highway speeds.
I recommend that you keep the stock speakers for these purposes. I would experiment with levels, you want the rears to become only just slightly audible so that you don't weaken the front sound stage. For me I find the rear fill helps with road noise at highway speeds.
#27
Team Owner
How often do you really use multi-channel? I mean there is virtually nothing on dvd-a. The Hu doesn't do any neat processing to take advantage of the multi-channel with a stereo source. Rear fill is going to screw with getting really good image without running processing on it and a lot of tuning. If you like it great, but I don't buy that it does anything for your stereo SQ. If you *like* a little rear fill, great. Its nothing the stock speakers probably can't handle though. I wouldn't actually take the stock speakers out (well unless you're having issues with them becoming passive radiators in a IB setup) The question is really if you should split your funds on buying speakers for the rear and amps with more channels, or just stick to getting a really solid front stage and leaving good enough alone out back.
#28
Three Wheelin'
Yah, that's way I gave the "If you having processing and tuning" caveat. You can do synthetic surround and stuff then. I've seen it done with HT setups, just not a car with it.
#29
Drifting
No chance. I don't believe an amp changes the sound if it's doing it's job correctly, only power has an effect. I've been one of the only people pushing that on here.
However, the noise floor is noticeably lower on the JL. With the gains maxed out, there's nothing there. The Zed had a low noise floor but it was still present.
Running the Zed unbridged, there's absolutely no doubt the HD puts out more power even though both are rated for 150w rms. Dynamics of the music on the JL is just as good as the Zed when bridged. The midbass has that same pop as the Zed did when bridged. Much better than the Mac, Interfire, the old JL, and the Zed unbridged.
At first I did not change the tune on the MS8, just hooked the JL up and level matched it so tune, MS8, and eq are out of the equation.
This is the ultimate amp for anyone wanting great power, efficiency, small size, ultra low noise floor, and more than rated power.
However, the noise floor is noticeably lower on the JL. With the gains maxed out, there's nothing there. The Zed had a low noise floor but it was still present.
Running the Zed unbridged, there's absolutely no doubt the HD puts out more power even though both are rated for 150w rms. Dynamics of the music on the JL is just as good as the Zed when bridged. The midbass has that same pop as the Zed did when bridged. Much better than the Mac, Interfire, the old JL, and the Zed unbridged.
At first I did not change the tune on the MS8, just hooked the JL up and level matched it so tune, MS8, and eq are out of the equation.
This is the ultimate amp for anyone wanting great power, efficiency, small size, ultra low noise floor, and more than rated power.
My dreadnought was dead quiet. You gotta have better ears than me, lol.
And since when do the jl's do more than rated? don't they have a regulated power supply?
#30
Team Owner
The regulated PS means it will make rated power from 11v to 14v. Impedance has very little effect on power. I forgot about this until I hooked it into my 8ohm mids and had to cut the gains way down to match the rest of the system. Previously, I had to run more gain to the mids than the others due to the impedance.
I've seen the 600/4 make about 10 more watts than rated into a dummy 4 ohm load. After digging, it's said they can make significantly more power into an actual speaker. JL seriously underrates their stuff. Max power is rated at .003% THD and full range 20hz to 20khz vs the standard 1% at only 1khz, just like their xmax standards are MUCH higher than the industry standard 10% on subs.
I understand it takes considerably more power to hear a difference with your ears and I need a few more days of listening time or preferably a meter but the JL is extremely close in output to the Lev I when I had it bridged.
SQ is better but I need to explain that better. The music sounds 99% similar. When I really crank it especially on metal, the music stays clear and crisp while on some of the other amps including the older JL I ran seemed to blur everything together and sounded harsh. The Lev wasn't as guilty of this but the other amps were.
In no way would I say anything bad about the Lev, it was a great amp that I would gladly recommend to anyone. The performance of the amp had nothing to do with why I got rid of it. It came down to size really. The JL will fit under the seats and offered comparable performance to the Lev. I'm always worried about theft and having an amp under the seat that requires the seat to be removed to steal it is a good thing. The only place the JL had a clear cut advantage was noise floor. This wasn't a problem on the Lev unless the gains were cranked 70% or higher which really wasn't necessary. I maxed out the JL to see if I could get a hiss and none existed. The Dyns seem to pick up every little flaw in the system, things that my IDs never picked up.
#31
Team Owner
#32
Dogmatic Dinosaur
I believe that amps can make a difference so much that I am considering a Thesis Quattro for my utopias. If it can make as much different in going from slash to LRx, then I will be thrilled at the money spent. However, to each their own.
I have never had a HD, but the slash put out about 2-3% more than their rated power. O'scoped in my car. If the HD regulates too, I would expect the same... although they could regulate at a higher percentage as a line.
#33
Drifting
#34
Team Owner
#35
Team Owner
The Audison and DLS are in a different class from the JL and Zed - in many ways IMO. The Audison and DLS are less powerful, by a longshot (which could matter). The JL is the only one that is small enough to likely hide. The Audison and DLS will sound better if you have drivers and ears that can make/tell a difference. If you are ever in KC, I can play you the difference in the same car with the same setup (just replace the amp). However, you need some pretty detailed drivers to hear the difference - you can hear some of the difference with my KRX3 set and a lot of difference with the Utopias. I love JL and Zed (and Zed Built) amps, they are powerful and reliable and have never let me down, but they are not instrument grade. I just paid a pretty penny to get one of my JLs fixed (because I love it) and I might never use it again, but it is not as nice as the Audison that I have. ...and I don't give a shit who sells JL and how many people have them, I have used them in my car and formulated my own opinions based on performance.
I believe that amps can make a difference so much that I am considering a Thesis Quattro for my utopias. If it can make as much different in going from slash to LRx, then I will be thrilled at the money spent. However, to each their own.
I have never had a HD, but the slash put out about 2-3% more than their rated power. O'scoped in my car. If the HD regulates too, I would expect the same... although they could regulate at a higher percentage as a line.
I believe that amps can make a difference so much that I am considering a Thesis Quattro for my utopias. If it can make as much different in going from slash to LRx, then I will be thrilled at the money spent. However, to each their own.
I have never had a HD, but the slash put out about 2-3% more than their rated power. O'scoped in my car. If the HD regulates too, I would expect the same... although they could regulate at a higher percentage as a line.
I have a pretty nice set of speakers as well that bring out every flaw in the system and I can't hear a difference in a McIntosh and a $100 Interfire.
To go a little farther, the JL does not sound much better than any of the other amps I've run except the dynamics are very nice, probably due to the higher power. Other than that, at normal listening levels, it's a wash between the $100 amp and the $1,600 amp. Crank the volume up and the HD is no doubt cleaner. In fact, its a hell of a lot cleaner, I can listen at crazy levels for extended periods of time because it's not annoying like it was before. But again, that's probably due to the additional power.
The amp is supposed to amplify the signal without coloration. Assuming they all do that, how can one sound different outside of the differences I mentioned?
Most people that experienced the same thing as me would say the JL HD sounds much better than the others and it does but I know the reason is the additional power and low noise floor, not some magical property of the amp.
I'm not looking for a confrontation but just a discussion. I guess what I want to understand is what people think these super high end amps can do that a good medium priced amp with similar specs can't do.
#36
Drifting
#37
Coolest A-zine Member
iTrader: (1)
Agreed. Doesn't help that every local shop sells them as subs that will poud the hell out of your car, etc. I mean you go to youtube and that's all it is for JL is people with w6's and w7's playing Late Nite Tip and showing us how much their mirror can move and how horribly their trunk rattles. PLENTY of subs that will get MUCH MUCH louder for the same price or cheaper. That's not what these are built for in my opinion
#38
Team Owner
Agreed. Doesn't help that every local shop sells them as subs that will poud the hell out of your car, etc. I mean you go to youtube and that's all it is for JL is people with w6's and w7's playing Late Nite Tip and showing us how much their mirror can move and how horribly their trunk rattles. PLENTY of subs that will get MUCH MUCH louder for the same price or cheaper. That's not what these are built for in my opinion
#40
Codename Duchess
iTrader: (2)
From a JL training years ago, the W7 was designed to be a quantum leap forward from the W6 (original) which was the flagship sub in the early 90s.
The W7 was something silly like 8 years in development. They went so far as to write modeling software (DMA) to see how the driver would behave in a dynamic state which at the time had never been done.
I for one like the JL comps, but don't really love them until you get to C5 & ZR. I actually like the C5s better than the ZRs after owning both.