JayVee

iTrader: (21)

so true

Today, depending on what happens when I walk in the front door at home...lol

I plan on adding the 3rd sheet supporting/speaker mount panel to the baffle and MAYBE some carpet. Again, really all depends. I also need to get cracking on laying down the deadening. These are my task for the week to accomplish. So maybe...MAYBE by weekend, I can start looking to wiring. But I am in no rush since I want it to come out perfect. So one thing at a time as I complete em.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

I totally agree with you, man...sometimes I'm in such a rush to finish stuff, that I do it quickly and then have to redo it 3 more times.

Get all the wiring done and just take your time...no rush!

JayVee

iTrader: (21)

It never fails! I always fk up somewhere along the line and have to do shit again...NOT THIS TIME!!! ...lol

I am determined to do it right! And do it right the first time! Check once check twice...check again and again...leave it alone...check again tomorrow. Measure not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6... like Lebron/HEAT to win championships...

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Jay, if you need some cheap carpet then check out Wal-mart. They carry automotive carpet in grey and black for like $7. It's back near all the auto stuff like floor mats, etc. I want to say it's like 40" wide and 74" long or something like that. I picked up a few for my false floor build....which is being finished today! YAAAY

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

^^^Nice tip...thanks for that, TM.

JayVee

iTrader: (21)

That is awesome to know...YESTERDAY! ...lol

I already bought 3 yards of poly carpet for speaker boxes. I should be good. But, if all else fails...as I said before ^ shit happens every time. In case it catches fire or melts into a sticky goo... I will kepp Wal-Mart in mind. Thanks!

mamamilk008

Yes, I felt the same way too. Kept thinking about where things could go wrong, tried to plan ahead so that I would get everything needed from HD in 1 trip. Guess what, I ended up redoing my amp rack twice, had to go to HD multiple times... no matter how hard you try to plan things out, there is always a surprise here and there.

What made it easy for me is the information I found from Acurazine. Without the help I got from Acurazine, it would have been 10x harder....

And I'm not done yet, after seeing how clean the builds you guys have... I can't stand my ghetto sub box sitting in the trunk, taking up so much space. Now I"m thinking using the spare tire area for the sub....

Anyway, I don't have any kid and felt so mentally and physically drained by the end of week 2 (signs of aging?), could imagine how it feels when you have to take care of the little one and keeping the project going at the same time ...

Good luck!

JayVee

iTrader: (21)

...matter of fact...I may have thought of a design flaw with the road I was going down with the panel and layering while sitting here at work ... I will look it over when I get home.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Think of something else!

JayVee

iTrader: (21)

I know I think to much... Off to LOWES to buy my 3rd sheet... Simple burp, easy fix. I will post pics later of OOPS...and fix

mamamilk008

Not sure if this will apply to your build but I learned it during my build. Make sure you add some foam (I used those window/door seal foam types from HD) to the bottom of your sub mount MDF platform if the platform would be sitting right on top of the horizontal area of the metal frame when the platform is bolted to the crossmember.

Otherwise, you may get some creaking sound with the wooden platform rubbing against the horizontal part of the metal frame as the crossmember flexes when the car goes over bumps, which is extremely annoying. Not a good thing to find out after you had everything installed in place.

JayVee

iTrader: (21)

Good call! Last week when i finished the first layer fascia baffle i had it placed in the car as if installed. The cross braces and tge shere perfect fit had it snuggly pinched in place and just as you said, as i was driving the top deck lip that pinches fhe top of the baffle was creeching like a Ol'rocking chair...lol!

Btw... no work for the day. Just like i called it 3pm severe lightning and thunder storms with heavy down pour. I am not about to work with electric power tools at this point...But A quick update to let you guys know it is somewhat back to the drawing board for a new and improved modification That is needed in my opinion to make it perfect. Absolutely needed? Maybe not... But I will show you and explain in full details with pictures when I get to work And you will see just what I am talking about.

JayVee

iTrader: (21)

Okay, I am back with 3 clean sheets of canvas...lol

JayVee

iTrader: (21)

OK...so here is my new 3 sheets of canvas Trial and error I have learned my mistake in inturpreting Jerry's build and design wrong. All is being corrected now and I will show you guys were I went wrong...so u don't make the same mistake(s) as I did.

As you can see from my first rendition I cut BOTH panels the same size. Jerry explained to me the importance of 2 things regarding this build, SEAL EVERYTHING and SUPPORT FROM FLEX. Well, supporting in total with 3 layers, the second layer is to mount and hold the sub. With it cut the same diameter as the sub, that would not work which will leave the 3 panel alone supporting the vibration and suspension of the sub.

Example:



Would this still work...Hell YES! But I am just so pickey regarding detail and the desire to do it like the PRO's, I must make the change or else this will bother me for years to come... Really, it will...

So, here is it starting again and doing it the JERRY WAY! = The RIGHT way IMO Is there any other way???





...in addition, there are some small changes. Notice the top edge of the front panel is a lil higher by approx 1in or so. Also, the bottom corners of the panel shaped so the bottom corners will fit more snug in the natural curve of the floor. Last design I did make a slight cut (see previous pages) on the bottom and this time I will attempt to fill in the gaps a lil more helping with sealing and allowing the panel to do so with added deadening later in the install.

Hopefully now, we will be cooking with grease in this build! Every this else should be CAKE... Hopefully

niebur3

Looking good. Here in the Midwest, Thunderstorms don't stop any work with power tools. You get hit with lightening, you get a little more power for your tools and done faster, that's all....lol!

JayVee

iTrader: (21)

...and a chance to feel like a comic book villian when you get thrown 30ft across the back yard Yeah, it calmed down so I went right to wk first chance I got on at least the cut outs, as shown. Between the weather and my baby son being very grump after coming from the Dr's getting his first shots... Poor thing. 2 shots on his rt thigh and one for the road on his left. I have never seen his cry with such pain in his 9 week life. Since he has been a lil moody but he did sleep for a while allowing me to get back to wk

Thanks Jerry for all your help with clearing things up for me. Things should be moving right along since I already have the idea how things fit from the previous design. Can't wait to get home again and work on it.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

When this thing gets done...you're going to be SOOOO effing board.
Hey Jay, want a business idea?

I bet if you were to trace out your design for the infinite baffle onto a huge piece of paper...people would paypal you $20 for the template.

JayVee

iTrader: (21)

STAY OUTTA MY HEAD JER!!!

already thought about that! I was just talking to the wife about that as I was tracing the new ones. I was in the same ball park in price $20-25.00...I have the old baffle as a template INCLUDES: both sizes. Front fascia and back panels templates.

ANY TAKERS? I take PayPal I will leave the speaker hole for u to cut so u can position the sub how high or low u want it to place and what size you may run 10in, 12in or 15in sub.

I gotta PM Ron A and see how to post that in the BM as multiple items or a name list or something...? Hmmmmm....

JayVee

iTrader: (21)

OK, so here it is... I just spoke to Ron A by PM and he advised me I am able to list or bring up possible takers or anyone who is interested in the exact copies/templates for a INFINITE BAFFLE install. I will send you BOTH panel sizes. 1.) front panel/fascia 2.) back supporting panel. The 2nd panel you will need (recommended) to make 2 for better support as seen in my build and Jerry's/niebur3. I also will leave the speaker hole for you to place and cut out for yourself so this can be left open for different size subs of your choice. (8in, 10in, 12in, 15in...)

Getting these templates will eliminate HOURS of fitting, trimming, fitting, trimming... and fit just as my build shows. Any one who may be interested, pls PM me for details. Or call or text msg #813-841-5563 Josh/ JayVee Thanks

JayVee

iTrader: (21)

Here it is. The NEW baffle with the preliminary trimming starting with the bottom floor board arch to help seal naturally from design.






The downward shaped corners will help with a snug fit and just adding deadening.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

If I ever decide to go that route, I'd gladly pay $25 for the template. Make it a cool $40 and include the finished false floor template when you get to that too.

JayVee

iTrader: (21)

LOL... Thanks Jer

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

You're welcome...
so you're saying we're soulmates!?

I saw your other thread first and was like "oh noooo he diiiiddnnn'''ttttt"!!!!!!!!

JayVee

iTrader: (21)

Lol... i just responded over there how it went down. Lol... anyways i wish i can invest about 6-8hrs straight on this project. I juggle so many different things in my day its so hard to really invest a good amt of time and get some real progress. I believe i am going to have some good time available this weekend. We will see

JayVee

iTrader: (21)

Just got hm... Spending a lil time with fam and I should be getting some wk done today on the build

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Looking good Jay

ohseven

This is awesome about time someone came up with this. I'm In.

JayVee

iTrader: (21)

PM returned

JayVee

iTrader: (21)

OK...Here they are in their final raw form. TEMPLATES ARE FINISHED AND FIT PERFECT!!! I will be tracing the 2 panels on enlarged paper FOR SALE $25.00 + PayPal Fee / SHIPPED / Mailed.

Here they are ~

*Remember, here they are (NEWEST DESIGN) freshly cut from the 2x4x 3/4 sheet of MDF Before all the final trim to fit was done*





Now here they are trimmed and fitted into the TL. ***REMINDER*** This design is ONLY for the 3G TL.

Here is how I started today:


And this was the progress made till finished:






The dark marked area is where the HARDWARE will be mounted. I first marked a spot then changed the location later to spread them as equal as possible on baffle for each side where I saw fit:

These are the mocked spots. On your templates you can mount your hardware where u see fit.




After final cut, I saw the sub needed to be moved down for equal spacing & strength against any possible flexing. See top very small body/spacing of wood panel.


From the trunk:



From the trunk with mocked 2nd panel. NOTE: 3rd panel will be identical so no need showing fitment or mock.


FINAL PRODUCT:




NOTE: There is one thing I will not be able to mock or trace on template and will be needed to be done for flush fitment and braces to be installed. VERY EASY! Either sand or jig saw cut a shaved piece from the indicated corners to clear the metal suspension wells/tubs as shown:



Hope you guys enjoy this build as much as I am in learning and molding my progress. Any inq/interested members wanting the TEMPLATES of this design PM me or call/text #813-841-5563 Thanks!

...PM from today have been returned and 3 pending purchases

JayVee

iTrader: (21)

Gorilla Glue and sandwiched the 2 rear supporting panels



This should work with clamping them together tightly overnight LOL! I don't have FANCY vice clamps like the PROS! (...*cough cough* JERRY!)





MORE TO COME TOMORROW & TEMPLATES TO BE CONVERTED ON PAPER TOMORROW FOR AVAILABILITY

mamamilk008

nice to see you are making progress!

I think you mentioned what size of bolts you would be using to secure the platform behind the cross-brace. If you are using large enough bolts, you should be fine. Otherwise, make sure you put a washer sitting flat on the wooden platform. I used very narrow screws to bolt my amp rack wooden platform behind the braces. The screw ended up pulling the first few layers of the MDF upward because the washer was sitting on the cross-brace, not completely flat on the wood itself.

Hope what I tried to explain makes sense to you.

JayVee

iTrader: (21)

I am using 1/4 in...if that is correct, maybe 5/16 ~ LAG SCREWS (6). Same that Jerry used in his build, he used 4. I decided not to use the "Sandwich" technique with the hardware going through all 3 panels. I opt to use "BOLT TO/TOGETHER" technique instead. I will be using the lag screws to screw into the panel fascia screwing the braces and panel together.

Hope that made even more sense...lol

Pics coming tomorrow of the hardware also.

JayVee

iTrader: (21)

Up since 604am thinking of what's next and some details that make sense to me at this point when sealing and installing the panel back in the car with all of the final touches and int pcs.... i could not sleep

JayVee

iTrader: (21)

SERIOUS UPDATE:

After further research and find by audio Guru's alike...(definitely NOT me) and hrs of talking and texting Jerry, my IB build has come to a screeching hault, abrrupt stop, crash and burn, epic FAIL, good wood for smores and a friendly camp fire. My IB build is DEAD! Its been advised due to the specs and perimeters of my IDQ12 V3 the over all optimal performance will be met in a small 1 cubic ft enclosed box... Yes, its true. Does this mean the IB is a waste or does NOT sound good? HELL NO! Just ask IHC! It sounds every bit of good and some of the BEST musical tones ever heard... ***WITH THE RIGHT SUB*** And here is a article posted by Jerry explaining in full ...(sounds like Chinese to me) detail. My perimeters just don't meet the usage for a IB set up.

BUT!!! I still have the TEMPLATES for those who want to run with a IB set up and has the woofer(s) to back it up. Contact me

Here is some good reading regarding a Critically Damped Vs Underdamped Vs Overdamped. Again, I think the driver still needs to be selected carefully for IB installation.

"Damping & Q
Before we define Q, let’s think about a car again. All automobiles have a suspension which prevents bumps and dips in the road from jarring the passengers. However, a car cannot use a spring suspension by itself because the car would continue to bounce (resonate) after each bump or dip. The bouncing needs to be suppressed and this is what the shock absorbers or dampers do. They suppress the unwanted bouncing after the springs have absorbed the initial impact of the bump or dip. In similar fashion, a speaker driver needs to be damped. Otherwise, its diaphragm will tend to vibrate excessively at its resonance frequency.

Several things serve to damp the driver. These include the suspension (surround and spider), motor (voice coil and magnet circuit) and amplifier output resistance. Achieving an optimal amount of damping can sometimes be a challenge and it almost always requires a consideration of the type of box in which the driver will be used. If the driver is not designed properly, it may be underdamped or overdamped. An underdamped driver will have ripples in its response and it will reproduce transient signals poorly. An overdamped driver will have a reduced low-frequency response.

"Q" is the term used by speaker designers and engineers to describe how well damped a driver is. However, Q is not damping. Instead, it is resonance magnification which is the exact opposite of damping. So a higher amount of damping results in a lower value of Q and visa versa. Let’s return to our earlier graph:



The driver which was used to create this graph has a total Q (Qts) that is super low at only 0.19. This low Q value results primarily from an extremely strong magnet and this driver by itself would be considered severely overdamped. To get a maximally flat response out of it we had to counteract some of the damping by stiffening the overall compliance. We did this by putting the driver in a relatively small box having an air volume with a much smaller compliance than the driver suspension. This caused the overall compliance to decrease considerably and the total Q (Qtc) to increase to 0.7 as shown in the green curve in the graph. A Q of 0.7 is considered by many to be the ideal value because it balances driver damping with a smooth low-frequency response and a reasonably good transient response.
The red curve was created with a huge box whose volume was over 100 times larger than the maximally flat box. As a result, the box has a very high compliance and so it could not stiffen the compliance of the driver much at all. In fact, the total Q was 0.2 which is just slightly greater than the driver, itself. Because the total Q is allowed to remain so low, the design is considered overdamped. Notice how it produces less low-frequency amplitude between 95 and 400 Hz. You might consider its greater output below 95 Hz to be an advantage but this is probably not the case because the driver would have to move a tremendous amount of air at these low frequencies and its maximum excursion (Xmax) may not be large enough to handle this. If it is not, it will at best have higher distortion and at worst become damaged.

The blue curve was created with an ultra small box whose volume was over 25 times smaller than the maximally flat box. As a result, the box has a very low compliance and so it stiffened the compliance of the driver by a very large amount. In fact, the total Q was 3.0 which is quite high and causes the box to be underdamped. Notice how it produces a 9 dB response peak that is centered at 580 Hz. The peak occurs at this frequency because the low compliance of the box has in effect shortened the spring, raising the resonance to 580 Hz. The peak is 9 dB high because the driver lacks sufficient damping to overcome its resonance. This means that the driver will ring like a bell at 580 Hz. Needless to say, it will also have poor transient response at this frequency.

Note: The compliance of the driver and box are in series with each other but they sum in parallel like capacitors so the sum is always less than the lowest of the driver or box compliance values. In other words, the lowest compliance dominates the system. With the red curve, the box had a compliance that was much higher than the driver and so the driver’s compliance was dominant. Therefore the total compliance was not influenced much by the box. However, the box of the blue curve had a compliance that was much lower than the driver, and being the lower value it became the dominant one and caused the total compliance to appear to be much lower."

This was an exert found here:http://www.ht-audio.com/pages/SpeakerBasics.html
__________________

More can be found here: (pg12 of thread)

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...643925&page=12

pohljm

just use that IB baffle as the front of your box. problem solved

JayVee

iTrader: (21)

I wish it was that simple buddy and it does sound like simple logic...But the sub firing in the sq footage of a cabin is NOT the optimal sound or performance...true story.

Enclosed box set ups sound BEST when firing from spare tire enclosures straight up, firing straight sideways left to right or right to left or... directly backwards facing the trunk.

Fact of the matter, the IB would sound GOOD maybe even GREAT...to me. Someone who has no idea what quality sound sounds like in the first place as long as it THUMPS and I hear the words...LOL ~ sounds like most of us anyways that are your everyday Joes and not PROS like NIEBUR3, IHC or even TM... shit I even read some comments you (pohljm) have posted and you sound like you know what you are talking about. But I don't want something that will sound GOOD to a normal Joe. I want something that will sound GREAT to a Jow and very good quality to a PRO for what I have and the amt of spaced used (DEFINITELY need my trunk...Newborm baby here). And I am confident that is what I will establish now.





even though JERRY is the one who steered me and directed me to this equip. and this IB set up!!!! ...lol

But Jerry has always helped me and I feel he may have helped me even more now. I just don't have the sub for it. And this may have prevented me from damaging or even blowing my sub later on.

JayVee

iTrader: (21)

TRUST ME!!! There is NO ONE more disappointed...THEN ME! But on a bright note... For those who are serious audio guys or even the avg joe investing in quality and capable equipment. * I HAVE THE TEMPLATES FOR THE DESIGN APPLICATION: ACURA 3G TL* ~ $25 for front baffle and rear supporting panel(s) *

BOOM! the work is virtually DONE!

pohljm

Ok other solution would be to switch subs

05_NBP_TL

iTrader: (1)

^ That would be the easiet solution
throw one or two 15's in there and keep this IB setup .

before scraping anything, think this over. You have been sleep deprived and you need to get some rest. You have put a great amount of planning/work into this build. Good Luck

JayVee

iTrader: (21)

Also TRUE... but costly I already made the templates out (pre-cut outlined) for the new box. I can't believe how small! *22Wx15Hx7.5D* Practically a dam show box! I guess I see why ROCKSTAR143 has never switched or started his IB project or any other for that matter. He is running 2 12in subs and says his box depth is only 11-11.5in. That is skinny and barely even taking any space at all. And this box of mine for my 1 12in is less! Now I just need to figure out what and where to place the amp. I just don't want to mount it to the top or sides etc. Plus this amp isn't so small. Its practically the same damn size of this box. ID i5800 measurements ~ 18-1/2"L x 8"W x 2-1/4"H