soloman37

I hope a separate forum section will be set up for the Navi system so we won't have to wade through all the posts about phones to find what people have to say about navi.

I am concerned about the two incidents I mention below and urge others to post any significant problems they have. If it's safety related, please note where you are, the date/ time/location (even your odomete reading), and feed the incident info to the NHTSA, as well as to Navitech, Acura, your dealer and, of course, us.

This is by and large an extract from the 3,000 mile review I posted elsewhere:

NAVIGATION SYSTEM
I have a 2005 Abyss Blue, AT, purchased 11/18/04. Navi is "A" version.


Being directionally challenged, I've (for the most part) enjoyed having the navi.

There have been two instances of potentially dangerous failures. Both occurred on Florida's Turnpike, mid-afternoon, heading south. In early December, I had just cleared the toll around Boynton Beach when the system told me to take a left exit in two (perhaps one) miles. A couple of hundred yards later, the system told me to turn left in 1/2 mile. A couple of hundred yards later, it said to take the next left. There are no left side exits. If I had turned when it told me to, I'd have crashed into the guardrail. It got back on track 10 seconds or so later, after I passed the non-existent exit it told me to take. I figured that was a one-time only aberration.

But, on December 14th, it told me to take a left exit when I was a couple of miles or so north of Sample Road. Again, if I had turned where it told me to, I'd have crashed into the guardrail. Once I passed the false turn, it gave me the right directions. But I fear for anyone driving at night, a little under the weather, on an unknown road, who gets that kind of misdirection. I finally went to the Navtech web site
http://update.navtech.com/english_d...a&submit=Submit and posted a complaint there. So far, I've only received an auto-reply email. I have also snail-mailed a letter (since I didn't see a way to do it on the web) to Acura Client Services.

I tried to file a complaint on the NHTSA site (Jan. 14th), but the only models it would let me comment on were the MDX, RL, and RSX. So I called their hotline: 1- 888-327-4236. The guy there took the info for the 2nd incident only, since I didn't have an exact date for the first one. I got on to Pohanka's site. http://www.pohankaacura.com/en_US/ and sent them a comment

Then I filed a complaint with NHTSA about not listing the 2005 TL, TSX, or NSX on their site. http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/contact.cfm A web person responded quickly and said the other models would be added by January 21st. They were on when I checked on the 17th.

I will try to get to the Turnpike in the next week or so and take a drive to see if I can duplicate the problem. I'll also post the responses I get.

As/of January 22, I have not gotten responses from anyone.

One forum poster suggested the "B" update might solve the problem. There was a comment that my version might have year old information. But the Turnpike has been around since before Acura was putting navi's into the TL.

The navi system will give you what I'd term theoretical directions. For example, it took me through towns on the way down if that's the way the highway went, ignoring the business district by-pass highway routes.

I was very surprised at the inability to find stores using their names. It's sometimes easier to find places by category, moving down levels, than directly by name. So, when I keyed in "Sears," the closest one to Delray Beach is 604 or so miles away. Actually, there are two within 15 miles. I couldn't find a couple of PEP Boys stores, either, although there are a couple that are within 15 minutes away. A few days ago, I was waiting in a mall next to a McDonalds. Couldn't find it by name, as a test; found it by category. If I knew the addresses or phone numbers of the places I look for, I wouldn't need the Navi. At the same time, it's great to have a system that can find the nearest gas station when you're on a highway, or locate the nearest post office. I've tried voice input, which can be convenient; but you still need to key in some info in many cases. The user guide could be a bit more user friendly. e.g., A user guide section about how to delete previous destinations assumed you had read the previous page.

I have a problem reading the screen when the is glare from the sun. One respondent suggested switching to night display, and I need to try that.

rets

Sorry to hear these issues (from your Navi), but I'd like to know a little more details if possible.


First, when you drive, are you sure your car is right and accurate on your Navi? I mean sometimes my car would off the center of Navi and Navi mis-direct my car. Usually, after driving under teh opened sky for a few mins or a few blocks, my Navi will set it right.


Second, I'll try to get the newest Navi DVD (I'm sure you have almost the newest one).


Wish someone driving those roads frequnetly could help you check your case. Good Luck.


Also, as for the sub-forum, we'll work on it, but cannot give you any specific answers yet.

nfnsquared

Guess I don't understand. You're on a major highway. The Navi tells you to exit in 2 miles. A major highway will have prominent exit signs. I'm sure as hell not going to try and exit just because the Navi tells me to. Yeah, so it's wrong, but don't see how it's dangerous.....Common sense tells me if there ain't no exit sign, then something must be screwed up.

bluenoise

I wouldn't necessarily say it is dangerous to have it tell you to exit when there's no exit, if you're paying attention. I've heard of people following their navs to the letter, though, and making U-turns on freeways, so I guess it could be dangerous for those people. No wonder there's a disclaimer screen.

Nonetheless, I've had my navi do some strange stuff. For instance, if I have it calculate a route to my local Costco, it really messes up the directions for pulling into the parking lot. The blue line becomes a tangled zig-zag on the screen when it's really just a simple left turn. If I were to follow the blue line, I'd drive around the block two or three times before dead-ending in a field. Luckily, I can see the Costco while the directions are still good so I stop paying attention to the nav at that point anyway (not that I need it to find my Costco ).

I also had trouble finding McDonald's, but it came down to messing with the apostrophe S. I think I typed it without and it didn't find anything nearby. I added the apostrophe and all was good. It would be nice if it had a fuzzy search capability.

nickademus

How could you possibly have the money to buy this car? You couldn't possibly hold a job.
I guess you inherited it.

Jeez, the NAVI data can't be 100 percent accurate. This situation sounds a little wierd, but a safety issue?????????? You've got to be kidding. I would recommend turning your navi off from now on and using all of your limited brain power to concentrate on the road.

ohmygators

I've noticed this a couple of times on the Florida Turnpike (southbound at the I-4 exit). The Navi says to exit left when there's only an exit to the right and you are supposed to be continuing straight. Instead of saying "exit left," it should probably say "keep left" so that you don't accidentally exit right by following the dedicated right turn lane.

I've never thought this error in the Navi was "dangerous" though. No matter how confident the Navi sounds in its directions, if there's not a road to turn on to....

soloman37

I took a ride on Florida's Turnpike to see if I could duplicate the dangerous failure that had occurred with the navigation system (Version 3.40A) in my 2005 Acura TL. It happened again. Date: January 23, 2005; Time: 10:30 a.m.

I set the navi to take me to an address on Cocoanut Creek Parkway. There is a Turnpike exit there. I got on to the Turnpike, heading south, a few miles North of Boynton Beach Boulevard, about 24 miles away from my destination. About 100 yards south of the Boynton Beach toll plaza, the navi told me to make a left turn in two miles. The Boynton Beach Boulevard exit is about two miles away from the Toll Plaza, but it is on the right side. About 1/2 mile later, the navi told me to make a left in one mile. About 1/2 mile later, it told me to make a left turn. That would have taken me into the concrete guardrails. I glanced at the screen and saw that it was still showing my destination being more than 20 miles away.

A few hundred yards farther on, the system told me to stay on the highway for 22 (not sure of the number) miles. Sheets of rain started pouring down soon thereafter, so I did not drive down to Sample Road to see if the failure occurred there as it previously had. I assume it would have and that there is something about those two spots on Florida's Turnpike (and probably elsewhere around the country) that throws the navi off and causes it to provide dangerous directions.

Yes, I knew there was no exit there. But someone else who is not familiar with the area, especially travelling at night or in heavy rain as occured when I was doing this, might decide to follow directions.

As far as I can tell, the navi has my car properly situated on the screen. But even if it didn't, it's unlikely that would have caused the problem. It knew I was on the Turnpike before and after I pass that spot. I respectfully disagree with other posters who don't think this type of thing is dangerous. I'll report it to Navitech again. Since they didn't respond to the last message, I'll try reporting this as a d.b. error.

oblio98

Good Grief! There are bound to be errors in the mapping, consider the size of the database and the compexity of the USA road system.

I would suggest that you "look before you turn"!

caball88

oh man i thought this was a serious problem, but did you read the warning screen that appears everytime you start the car? gosh the navi is great but it is to be used with caution and assumption that sometimes it can make mistakes and not account for real world situations such as construction, accidents and road closures.

cM3go

you know that safety message many want to get pass or eliminate? its there for a reason, it states to use the navigation as a guide, and not as a fact of direction

ACCURATEin

Dangerous is not the word. It's just like someone telling me to open my car door and jump out at 57 miles an hour. SIMPLY NOT gonna do it!

Brewmaster

I'm with the majority here ... this is not dangerous .. dangerous is the person driving who blindly follows directions from a navigational aid and drives into a concrete median.

If you are one of those people ... for the sake of the rest of us, pull into the right hand lane, speed up to 35 mph, turn off your left turn signal, exit the highway at the first possible exit (designated by sign not NAV) park the damn car and take public transportation.

For the sake of me, my wife, our children and the rest of society, I'm begging you ... take the bus!

wallaceoh

BRAVO! BRAVO!!! I couldn 't have said it better. Hmmm... Let's see new roads built, modified, updated daily. NAVI disk updated maybe once a year. Sorry Soloman, if you're expecting absolute perfection, you need a reality check. Your expectations are WAY WAY too high.

thebolt99

It does this to me all the time. On the NJ turnpike it will say "Stay Left" or "Stay Right" when the highway splits. Prime example of this is when the turnpike splits into "Cars and Trucks" and "Cars Only". It will also mess up if you go in the "Cars only" (I think). It sometimes thinks you are in the other divided section. So it will say "Next Exit on Left" but it really is on the right. I don’t ever blindly follow the voice !!!


-The Bolt

soloman37

Even if you were right, and I have no money, no job record, and no intelligence, that would still be better than you having no class.

If people don't think what happened is potentially dangerous, ok; we disagree. That's still not a reason for jackasses whose egos are so wrapped up in their choice of cars that they can't stand to see anyone mention something negative to start braying on the forum and making personal attacks.

Rather than my turning my navi off (which I happen to enjoy using) it would be better for you to ignore postings you don't like or rebut them in some manner that doesn't ridicule the other poster. Otherwise, this will just be a flame session, because I'm not going to let asinine comments like this go unanswered.

soloman37

Ok, ok. You and other posters don't think there's a danger. I hit "ok" on the screen whenever use the navi, because the vendors want to try to limit their liability, and I'm not complaining about that.

I had no problem with what happened because I know the Turnpike doesn't have left turns, much less left hand exits, and it was daylight. I've had enough "regular" errors with the system to realize it can only be relied upon up to a point.

But I still feel people travelling there at night and unfamiliar with the area are at risk. You think I'm a worry wart or worse. Ok. As long as the comments don't get anymore attacking than yours did, I don't have a problem with anyone disagreeing with or ignoring my post. I'll continue to post anytime I run across something I feel has the potential to put others at risk.

soloman37

No, I'm not expecting perfection. I spent too many years in computing to ever think that's possible.

I had two purposes with my posting: 1) to alert others who may wind up driving on, but not be familiar with, Florida's Turnpike so they can be more careful at night or in inclement weather. 2) I hoped others who travel on the Turnpike might send a note to Acura and the navi developer asking them to look into it and fix the problem if they find it to be real. Otherwise, the system is likely to stay the same.

I figured some people wouldn't think what happened was dangerous, and they would be more likely to post rebuttals and say I was overreacting. That's ok. I just didn't anticipate juvenile responses on something like this.

gatrhumpy

iTrader: (1)

This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard of. The navigation system is there to assist and help you, not drive the car for you. You need to have common sense when it comes to these things. I've never had a problem with the navigation system, but if it told me to take a left turn into a guard rail, you'd have to be retarded to do that. Same thing with one way streets. If it told me to go down a one way street, use common sense and don't do it.

spackletoe

I must say, I'm surprised that someone would make such an effort to get the word out about a map problem in a GPS system. You've done everything short of write a letter to your congressman. I didn't read your whole message, maybe you did that.

But it's just a mapping error. you drive 10 feet past the mistake and odds are the car will plot another course that won't use that turn. Heck, I just got a 2005 TL the other day and it takes me on an offramp that isn't there on my way home from work.

You mention that you understand the system isn't perfect, which we all know, but what I'm amazed at is how you're devoting such an effort to right this error. It's both commendable and creepy.

midas69

Dude, you tried to file a complaint with NHTSA. You don't think that's a little much? And you wonder why people jumped on you.

Reporting it to the disk manufacturer is the right thing to do. No problem. I've done the same thing. But a report to NHTSA is so far overboard it's hard to comprehend.

t951

I'm curious, has one person agreed with you that this is dangerous?

CarShopper

Sounds like a real dangerous problem with the nav system.

My uncle, who is totally blind, has been thinking about finally getting a car. What with all the technology in new cars he figured it might be about time. A nav equipped TL was one of his top choices. With the voice recognition he wouldn't need to feel his way around the controls that he can't see. And then of course the nav system tells him where to go and when to turn.
:killer:

But this valuable thread alerted me to this dangerous problem. Now I don't think this is the car for a blind man to get. Not if he can't depend on the nav system to guide him. You may well have saved his life.

While its more expensive, I think he is going to have to save his money and get the new Infiniti M45. It has the voice recognition, nav, and the added feature of intelligent cruise control so he doesn't rear end cars he can't see on the freeway. And I haven't heard of any nav problems with that car.

Thanks again.

Repecat

Thanks for the chuckle, CarShopper. Good way to terminate the thread.

Contivity

I actually think that the intention of the first poster is to warn people on the POSSIBILITY of the danger. I know most of us are good drivers that will follow the conditions rather than following the nav blindly, but there're some crazy drivers out there that might do the reverse. Just as he said, under certain low-light/extreme downpour, people might make mistakes and follow the Nav.

Brewmaster

Midas hit it right on the head ...

• Make us aware of a problem .. great!
• Call it dangerous to get our attention .. fine!
• Email the NAV provider .. bravo for taking action
• then you complained to the NHTSA, (in fact you complained to the NHTSA about your ability to complain to the NHTSA)!!!!
• AND you went back to the same spot for no other reason but to verify that the problem actually occurred ..

That's when it went way over the top.

If the Nav were blonde with big boobs she'd have filed a restraining order by now ... learn to let it go .. life's too short (even shorter if you drive into a median )

thane11

In the setup screen you probably had the voice set to female. She gave me bad directions all the time. Switched to the male voice and no problems ever since.

Mike_TX

Soloman, I agree with you, so you have at least one supporter.

No, you don't blindly follow the nav's instructions ... you have to use your head and your eyes. But giving instructions like a left turn on a divided freeway is nuts. I could see where *some* people might at least cause a wreck if, say, it is late at night and it is raining or foggy, and they are completely unfamiliar with the road. If the freakin nav says a left turn is coming up, it's natural to assume there is a left turn. If nothing else, they'll slow way down in the left lane and someone may plow into them.

If you can't trust the nav, it becomes pretty damn useless.

Mike

spackletoe

None of the guys who are giving soloman a hard time think that the error shouldn't be fixed. They're all just uppity because of the word "dangerous" and the idea of putting such blind trust into the navi.

Fix the error, more power to ya!

Contivity

I have been working in the computer industry as bug reporters... If I saw this bug, I would consider this a pretty big bugs (Level 2 bug, with 1 being the highest and 5 lowest priority)... A lot of people might just shrug this off as nothing, but these bugs might pose threat in another way that it has not been seen if left alone... Soloman, good job at the bug reporting..

waahu

This is no big deal. The Navi will occasionally tell you to stay left or turn left if there is an exit it doesn't want you to take on the right.

crazymjb

Im not sure if its on the Navi disk(we dont have the car yet) but mapquest says my street is connected to another when there is actually a lot filled with trees in the middle.

BoneZTL

It amazes me that this thread has gotten this far. Lets not forget to take into account that GPS is only so accurate, that other factors can come into play that will make your system think you are at location X, when you are really 100 or 200 feet from X, geography being the biggest player. The point is, that its not flawless, or fool proof, nor is it guaranteed.

I have a similiar instance like this, where my NAVI thinks I'm on the frontage road directly next to the freeway, because there is a hillside blocking my signal from one of the GPS satellites, so everytime I drive this 1 mile stretch of freeway, it says I'm on the frontage road next to the freeway, as opposed to being on the freeway. Bear in mind that the frontage road is about 20-40 feet parallel to the freeway, Just a fact of life, its not perfect, and there's really no reason to report it as a flaw or bug because its not a bug, its just a lack of signal from one of the GPS satellites so it thinks I'm somewhere I'm not. Dead spots like this exist all over the world.

If the developers had to go through and put in little patches/fixes for every single instance like this across the US, the hoho magic fixing code would be nearly as big as the code base itself, and in reality, there may not be a need for a fix to begin with.

Anyways, enough rambling... I don't think the original poster needed some of the abuse he took, but at the same time the actions he took in my opinion may have been a bit much.

-BZ

Xpditor

Let me resurrect this tome.

I live in South Florida and have noted the same "errors". There are a couple of glitches and they are usually around the Sawgrass Expressway where it intersects with the Florida Turnpike.

Another glitch is "verbal" only as I head north on SR 441 in Broward County. The voice tells me to turn left even when the blue route marker is showing straight ahead. I just ignore it as I know where I am going and I can see the blue route.

I attribute these glitches to three factors:

1) Often, especially in Florida, route numbers will merge and split even when you are continuing straight ahead. Sometimes the Navi will read this as a left or right turn because the main numbered route is going the other way. The Turnpike is a good example. It is technically SR9 but is not marked as such either by signage or on maps. That designation comes and goes as you procede down the turnpike. In some places it is SR9, in others, it's not.

2) Tinted windows with metallic tint. The Navi Owner's Manual warns you not to put metallic tint on the TL but many people did it anyway- including some who have posted in this thread and acknowledge problems with the Navi- but who have not seen the nexus with metallic tint.

3) Bald-face bugs. Errors. In a database with over 3 million points of interest and routes for the entire United States and Southern Canada, there are bound to be bugs.

I would say my Navi is 99% accurate. That is just amazing to me. I often wonder how they mapped the streets. Is it done from aerial photos? Satellite photos?Does someone have the job of just driving around and plotting them in real time/real space??? If so, I want that job!

acuraTL44

I think the navi tells you to exit left when there is a major exit, like if there is another highway the exit takes you to. The navi reads it more as a split in the road, rather than a normal exit. I noticed this when driving on the Alantic City Expressway, where the parkway intersects. just my

AdamNJ

I'll hear "exit left" plenty of times when I am on the GSP...but all you have to do (as mentioned earlier) is look at the navi screen and you will see that all you need to do is keep going straight. For some reason the Navi is stupid and says "exit left" instead of "bear left" or "continue on the road"...etc.

When I am actually using the Navi, I will never use it blindly because it is not 100% accurate with where you are and you need to glance at the screen to understand what the roadway looks like.

Xpditor

Yes. My point #1 exactly.

Neumahn

This is obviously some idiot looking for a settlement.

Xpditor

Hello, NEUMAHN!

Be nice.

walker29

That was funny!

Lazaro1717

I have the same rattlesnake issue, the dealer stated that it was the exhaust clamps that were loose. I'm going to pick it up today. I'll repost the outcome if it's still not fixed. I have another issue pending in which is my two front seats that have melted. Call American Honda's Consumer affairs at 1-800-382-2238 and select option 3. Make sure you have your vehicle identification number to report the problem. They will then assign you to a case worker in which they will have your vehicle inspected at the dealer. My next step is calling their Legal Department to form this some kind of class action lawsuit. Good luck.

Leo