dboychuk

I just took delivery of an 05 TL and love the dvd audio... but
I just unloaded my 2002 tl and previous to that was a honda
prelude........ those other stock stereos at least had some
good volume to them...... the new TL.... 05.... doesnt seem
to go loud enough for me to really listen to my favs.......
all this talk of adding amps?? where., how...... is there a way
just to turn up the gain???? where the h e *## is the amp///
help...... help. to the power of 5

Repecat

Wow! Maybe something is haywire with your system. My normal listening level is 6 or 7, and sometimes boost it to 10 or 12 if I have the windows open which is plenty for me. But then, everyone is different.

Heat03

I agree.. stock system is horrible. have to go up to 30-35 with windows open just to hear the thing...

gatrhumpy

iTrader: (1)

30-35???!!! holy crap! I never go above 15-17. The only time I go above 10 is when I'm listening to the Comedy Channel. Sheesh, no wonder you are deaf.

Heat03

lol.. I'm not deaf.. just not loud.. maybe something is wrong with my system.. I just got the car a few days ago.. bought it pre-owned with 9k miles on it.

traded in my Armada and that factory system rocked.. was incredibly loud... this is like a toy in comparison..

is there an amp gain or something that can be adjusted.??

and no. im not deaf. lol

lflorack

Wow! My normal listening volume is 8-10. When I have the windows open, it may go to 15-20 at MOST. Usually not even that loud. Either our systems are entirely diffierent or we are.

dboychuk

to any one... is there any gain controls.... I could turn up and if so..... where
if not........ could anyone give me a very quick schematics of adding an amp???

Dave

Heat03

i agree.... there must be a gain or something that needs tuning

lflorack

I think it's more than that. I couldn't be in mycar at that volume! I'd bet on something being wrong with your system.

Modeler

There isn't any gain control. The system is extremelly loud and I've never gone beyond level 18 or so. My normal listening level for rock is 12-13. If it seems to you that the system is not loud enough, there may be a problem with your system. All you need to do is take it to a dealer for a five-minute listening check with a tech. Problem solved!

DeathtoToasters

There is no gain control and there is no doubt in my mind that the system is made for clarity and NOT volume.

The system is not soft but it is not loud either. I have it between 35-40 and can still talk to the person in the seat next to me just fine.

No I am not deaf and my hearing is perfect. No I am not some young kid, I am 33.

Like someone said above...to each their own!

mp3car

It is odd to see people say it isnt loud enough. I have a severe hearing loss, and it is probably the loudest stock system I've ever heard (that sounds good when loud).

My previous system was quite powerful with 3 pairs of MB Quarts, two pairs of two-way coaxials, and one pair of components, (www.adamcantor.com, click on the standard site, then pictures, flash site is neat too but less pictures) but that system could quite easily cause pain with some songs. But, back to my point - I think the TL's system is quite loud enough, at least loud enough to listen to without causing further damage to my ears - which it actually is loud enough to do I beleive if listened to for extended periods of time.

For anyone who likes trance/dance/techno stuff, two songs in particular I was talking about that could cause pain are: Prodigy's climbatize at 1:04, is one example, go download it, a decent bass part too, starts at 1:33, the other song i was talking about is from the CD "Ministry Of Sound" track 13, Prototype - Soundpiercing. anyone who likes trance dance should really check these soungs out, especially if you want to show off your mids and highs and cause yourself pain

(btw, my hearing loss, while im sure is partially caused form loud music, the majority of the loss is hereditary)

TL Fantasy

I'm with DeathtoToasters...this system IS made for clarity and not volume. My musical tastes are varied and I've listen all styles and formats in my TL and the the most prominent thing I noticed right away was lyrics and instruments I never heard in the song before. It's taken me 20 yrs and the TL audio systemt to realize Madonna is singing "Dress you up in my love" and NOT "Dress you up in mylar"

@cUr@-TL

everytime im in my dad's 04' i have the volume set at like 30-35... that shit is weak, but the sound is clear.

bluenoise

It must depend on the source. If I'm listening to most XM music channels, anywhere from 5 to 20 is pretty typical with 20 being the volume needed to hear the music over an open sunroof at 70 MPH. The comedy channels require me to go 20-25 with the windows shut. CDs, though, would deafen me anywhere above 25 with country like Alan Jackson, etc., but rock hurts at levels above about 15-20. Techno/Chill/Downtempo CDs are good at 25 after my ears adjust.

Notice, though, that I have NEVER needed or wanted to exceed about 25 with any of the material I listen to. The only time I've cranked anything that high is the HFL when the caller's phone is weak.

Ken1997TL

CD's and DVD-A's can vary.. i know from testing it out that my burned CD's were far volumes different than a "Grand Theft Auto: Vice City" Soundtrack CD I also used for testing.

I'd try the XM, DVD-A and CD to see if there is a volume discrepancy...

But you might as well just mention it to the dealer, its under warranty so why not get it checked?

jobes

Pretty weak. The first ride I had I kept turning the volume knob up , up what the &^$&^$ something stuck. Wouldn't go past 40. Sounds great but very short of that pump I was hoping for.

Maybe something is incorrect with the gain. and yes, my ears are fine. hmmm whaddya say.

Heat03

yea i agree,
I had the windows open at 80 mph, I had to turn it to 40 and could barely hear it... I don't know what you guys are talking about, its crystal clear, but certainly not loud enough..

with the windows up, its ok i guess, but crank em down to smoke one and ya can't hear a thing lol

jeeper31

I agree. Very clear but not loud enough. I hav never had a stereo that I can max out the vonlume as you can with this one. Maybe it's a psyccological hing. YOu always want more. If it could go louder I wold probably use the extra volume.

bluenoise

I just put on some hearing protectors and did a couple of tests in my car.

First, I turned on Squizz on XM and turned it up to 40. The average A-weighted sound pressure level was about 112 dB and it was distorting. I then tuned in XM Cafe, turned it to 30 and got an average SPL of about 105 dB with little to no discernable distortion. The results were about the same across a random assortment of music channels.

I played a Sarah Evans (country) CD that happened to be in the player and got about 105 dB at a volume setting of 25.

If you don't think 105 dB is a loud enough average volume, you're looking for some hearing damage.

Modeler

You expected to hear music over the roar of wind at 80mph??? Are you sure you have reasonable expectations?

Heat03

yes absolutely.
It is weak !
Everything else about the car I love, no complaints whatsoever....
just need a little more kick in the stereo dept.

MY previous car/truck, the Armada with the Bose system was great.... very loud and very clear... and before that my FX35 also had a decent system... at least I didn't have to ever come close to full volume, even with the windows down...

but I do think they could have done a better job on the TL sound system... the quality is good but just needs some more..

It is not that much of an issue I guess, since half the time I'm on the bluetooth and the other half I'm listening to the pleasant lady's voice guide me to my destination

I'm certainly not going to get rid of the car because of this and I'm also not going to start adding amps because then it becomes a big expense, you need amps, the clean sweep, new speakers, installation $$, and it won't ever end lol.
just my 2 cents worth

krichter1

I have a 2005 Anthracite/Ebony w/Nav 5AT myself and have been listening to DVD-a and DTS 5.1 music since inception, (I have audiophile quality equipment in the house), and there is most certainly a huge difference in SPL with these 192KHz discs vs. 44K 16bit CD's, (and most ceratinly a compressed digital signal such as XM). The 5.1 system should be at least 20-30dB higher but requires much greater amplification to do so. The comment about 105-115dB sound pressure is in NO WAY reflective of a 5.1 uncompressed signal test, (he had to have been testing radio, CD or XM only).

Understand when listening to a compressed signal it will be "perceived" as louder because the bandwidth of the signal is much more narrow than that of a 192KHz 5.1 signal (uncompressed).

Think of the signal being a wad of gum . . . I you ball it up it will most certainly "look" bigger to your eyes; just as a compressed signal will "sound" bigger to your ears.

When you take that same amount of gum (being the signal) and S T R E T C H it out (like a 5.1 audio signal does to an amplifier), it will most certainly "look" smaller to your eyes; just as an uncompressed 192KHz signal will "sound" smaller to your ears.

Albeit much (much) better resolution and sound quality, it WILL be percieved as "quieter".

The problem with the Panny system in the TL's is it was designed by a huge audio purist who only had a limited Panny/Acura budget. In order to get it to sound reasonably good within that budget AND be able to play 192KHz signals without frying the voicecoils (you would have to think that he wanted to provide more, most certainly, but to play at the levels of a 16bit CD or compressed XM signal, the system would have had to cost another 1K in amplification alone!) Panasonic would have charged Acura a price that it simply would not have accepted for this vehicle; too cost prohibitive.

I would be interested in knowing if there's an easy way to add higher quality amplification, which I think (assuming the components themselves are of reasonably good quality), would provide the best ROI (return on investment) over new speakers or better subwoofers.

Just my 2 cents though, (from a 5.1 audiophile).

Modeler

Panny??? You and Matsushita are life-long buddies, right?

bluenoise

Are you talking about data compression or dynamic compression? It seems you're describing data compression having an effect on perceived loudness.

Data compression has absolutely no affect on perceived volume, when using modern audio codecs within their design parameters. Dynamic compression has tremendous effect on perceived volume, though. The more dynamic compression and limiting, the louder the perceived volume as the average energy content is maintained at a higher level. Sample rates have nothing to do with volume, either. Rock music tends to be more dynamically compressed than classical or traditional jazz, so it will sound louder regardless of sample rate, bit rate, or number of channels.

My tests were made by using XM and CD as source, but I ran another test with a DVD-A (Porcupine Tree) and found similar results during louder passages. At a volume of 30 during the louder parts, the meter hit 110 dB.

As with any factory system, tradeoffs were made between sound quality, maximum volume, and cost. While I'd like a few tweaks myself, I only did the tests to see what other posters are talking about when they say they crank it to 40 just to hear it. My point is that something must be wrong with their systems if that's the case and the "system" may include their ears!

Heat03

Lmao, there's nothing wrong with my ears.
I'm 33 and have owned many, many, many cars and audio systems...

Maybe there is something wrong with my system. On FM and/or CD audio, with the windows down on the highway, I DO have to turn it up to 40 to hear... It is not a problem with my ears...

I just traded in my Armada last week and I could hear that one fine. Never came close to full volume, yes on the highway with the windows down. The bose system in my old truck was great... I don't know about all this technicall mumbo jumbo, thats too complicated for me. Yes I want good quality, but what good is it if I can't hear it.

krichter1

It's an industry term you must not understand. But thanks for your insight!

krichter1

If you look up the specs on XM compression and DVD-a and you'll have a better understanding of my explanation.

I think it's great that your system is performing up to expectations, but for the other 98% of us (who must all have hearing problems), it isn't good enough and we're looking for alternatives.

The sound quality of DVD/DTS 5.1 is certainly much better than XM or 16bit CD's, (no ones disputing that; it's obvious and why we all paid handsomely for it), we just all would like a bit more punch; above and beyond the 30-40db of engine/environment noise mixed into your 110db measurements.

bluenoise

Which specs are you talking about? Compression ratios? Dynamic range? Frequency response vs. bitrate?

I'm not disputing the need for more oomf and clarity. I'm simply pointing out that the system is capable of 105+ dB of volume and that is clearly audible, even with the windows down at 80 MPH. It's certainly not something I would call a "reference system," but it's an impressive system nonetheless, given the tradeoffs that need to be made in a factory system. At some point, I would like to put in better drivers and amps, but not because I currently need to crank it to 40 just to hear it.

My tests were done with the car engine off, BTW, so engine and environment noises were not included in my measurements.

I'm still not clear what kind of compression you're describing. From your most recent reply, I'm almost certain you're describing data compression and I maintain that such compression does not affect real or apparent signal amplitude. It affects distortion, bandwidth, and channel separation, but not volume. Certainly, the lossless compression of DVD-A and even redbook CD are far superior to XMs crappy compression, but that doesn't mean a lick to how loud they are in relation to each other.

Also, the voice coils in the drivers are in no way affected by the sample rate of the source. To say that they could be fried by audio sampled at 192 kHz implies that such high sampling rates somehow carry more electrical power. The only thing such high rates bring to the party are increased upper frequency response and the inductive nature of voice coils is what limits their ability to even pass signals at those frequencies and the mass of the cones protects them from even trying to move at those rates should the signal still pass through the coils.

krichter1

I'm really not going to debate you about the properties of sound. But all in all I am referring to the additional dynamic range of these MLP lossless discs which put a great deal more strain on the amplifier (electrical power) at higher levels. If the amplifiers damping factor is such that it allows a higher THD percentage than the voice coils can handle, they WILL burn them to the point of failure. A voice coil will ALWAYS pass a signal it is given, (from an electrical capacitance standpoint), but depending on quality of materials and purity of signal (a clipped signal from the amp), they may not be able to reproduce that waveform within tolerance.

It is a well known and industry documented FACT, that a lossless, high sample rate signal will be perceived as significantly quieter to the human ear, than a digitally compressed MP2-4 signal (like XM); especially in the 40-1khz range. It is also why there is such a great compression debate over Dolby's schema vs. DTS's.

The extreme upper and lower end of a lossless signal is harder to reproduce, so turning up the volume to match the "perceived" output level (to match that of the XM compressed signal) is what we normally do and why an amplifiers damping factor is so crucial. That is why I believe Panasonic put in those limitations of "40" so as not to burn out (blow) the speakers. The amp would have be a lot "beefier" than what is installed, and also why they went with a 2ohm output load (to increase efficiency).

We all just are looking for a little more "Oomph" from this normally great sounding system (albeit a little weak); plain and simple.

I hope indeed you are correct and some (if not most) of us have an issue w/ our '05 systems over your '04's (but I seriously doubt it).

Heat03

amen

give us some more power !!!

bluenoise

I wasn't debating that the system didn't have enough punch or power. It could use more. I'd like more. I might add more one of these days after my warranty expires. I was only commenting toward those who say they need to turn it up to 40 just to hear it. To me, that's the same thing as saying, "My car only has 270 HP and I have to floor it just to get the car to start rolling. I need more horsepower!" Yeah, I'd like more horsepower in the same way I'd like more watts. Both would make the car even more enjoyable, but it doesn't mean the system is inaudible right now. I mentioned this only as a suggestion that the listener's system may be faulty, just like someone would suggest a fault if someone said they needed to floor the car just to pull out of their garage.

I guess I got too wordy and my points got diluted. I didn't mean to turn this into a technical debate, certainly not with someone who thinks they understand the way digital audio works.

Yes, the system could use more power. No, I don't expect Acura to deliver it, so it's up to the custom guys to make it happen.

krichter1

Yeah and there's many other's here Mr. Noise who think you're a TOOL! I'm trying help the others make their point over your condescending banter. You may think I don't know what I'm talking about, but your recent statements prove you don't!

Move on ya putz!! Better yet... take your SPL meter and measure your IQ . . . No wait . . . that would be A weighted "Blue" noise . . . nothing!!

On a NICER (more positive) note... there is another thread about swapping out the factory amp for a 6 channel one but MAN does it sound like a hassle...

https://acurazine.com/forums/audio-video-electronics-navigation-22/questions-adding-sub-amp-120614/

MORE POWER Please!!! (easily though!)

bluenoise

Wow, such an angry response.

Do you not agree that a system that is inaudible until turned to 40 may be defective? Am I wrong to suggest the poster get it checked out for proper operation before spending money and effort to fix the problem? I never meant to imply the stock system was perfect and I've said that several times now. There are many threads here detailing the upgrade of amplifiers and speakers. My comments initially were to point out that a system playing typical material is not only audible at 25-30, it is capable of dangerously high volumes. This was meant as a point of reference, not a condescending blast at those who may be having trouble with their systems. If I was condescending, I apologize. It was not my intent.

When you started posting information containing half-facts and misinformation about digital audio, I had to question what you were talking about. I wasn't trying to get your panties in a bunch, so I should've just let it lie. But none of the technical discussion means a bit to someone who can't hear his system until he turns it up all the way, so I go back to my original poorly-worded point: Before spending a bunch of time and money upgrading, make sure it's working properly. Then go to town on it and have fun. Be sure to post your results when you're done. Many of us love to read about that stuff, even us "tools."

stretchb69

My God,,,this is getting ridiculous. The man simply asked if there was any way to boost the volume of his stereo. He didn't ask to argue and listen to shit from people that obviously don't like loud music.

There is no denying that the 05 TL stereo is weak with volume. I also realize that the designers weren't going for volume, but clarity and rich sound. But to people that like some kick, and to feel the music, the volume is weak.

The volume of this stereo is the weakest of any new car I've ever owned. I have owned three brand new Accords, my current TL, and a Nissan Titan. And the TL is blatantly, the weakest volume stereo. Though, if I want to hear the symbols in the back ground of some symphony music, the TL has that covered.

The orginal thread was started asking for any advice on a simple fix to boost the volume, not to debate the volume, with people who are listening to Barry Manilow.
So if anyone has any advice with boosting the volume, please post. To anyone that thinks that the volume is to loud at 25, please, shut up and move on.
I want more sound, Stretch

2LOW4U

LOL... yea, I can hear my dad's stereo at 100 with the top down, but of course so can everyone within 10 car lengths...

Three PG ZPAs, 3 sets of Focal Kevlars and a 12W7 will cover the wind issue... even in a convertible.

2LOW4U

I think the channel has a TON to do with it... Even now with aftermarket amps, at 25 on the 80s channel, I flip to BPM or something and the volume HAS to go to like 16, or its rattling my windshield... lol.

stretchb69

Whoooaaa, slow down Mr Hate! Why you gotta call me names? Tool?

Once again, the original starter of this thread was freaking asking for advice on how to increase volume, not to debate how loud you think the stereo is.

"I just took delivery of an 05 TL and love the dvd audio... but
I just unloaded my 2002 tl and previous to that was a honda
prelude........ those other stock stereos at least had some
good volume to them...... the new TL.... 05.... doesnt seem
to go loud enough for me to really listen to my favs.......
all this talk of adding amps?? where., how...... is there a way
just to turn up the gain???? where the h e *## is the amp///
help...... help. to the power of 5"

You, you, you! That's all you ever think about.

Get over yourself and your seemingly endless, vast knowledge, of how loud other peoples stereo should be. As I said before, if you don't have any words of advice for him to get more volume, then shut up and move on. (Or maybe that's where I pissed you off, shut up. I'll take those hate words back, please be quite. Is that better?)
And man, go see someone about this anger problem. Maybe if you could crank up some really loud music, it could serve as a release valve for all your pent up anger. Thus, you wouldn't need to go around calling people a tool and giving the finger.
Otherwise, I will not stoop to your level and call you names, rather, I will just end with,
I know you are but what am I?

krichter1

Read the quote again my man . . . it wasn't a response for "Stretchb69" was it??

I agree with you and that's why I posted something for everyone on the install of an amp (there's pictures of the stock amp location there too).

I just didn'care for the condescending remarks from the Blue man, that I "think" I knew my stuff and that everyone that felt the volume was too low should get a "hearing aid" etc... Why allow him to push opinions on us?? Everyone just wants the facts to make an educated decision on their own, right?

If he would have just stated he tested his "04" TL and registered over 100dB in his car, that would have been all we needed. Anyhow... enough of this as it is UNIMPORTANT and we're not children! Nuff said.

Anyone check out that link I posted and better yet, has anyone read of any aftermarket harnesses we could use to replace this stock amp with something "beefier"?

Have a great day (even you Blue man)!!

stretchb69

Well said. And thanks for the reply. To each his own, with everyone having their own opinions, as you stated above.
And you sir, have agreat day, and life as well.