FRST4DR

Ok so two weeks ago, I spent tons of time installing my replacement factory sub and adding an amp. Took out the back seats, sealed the back deck the best I could, had to drill new holes for the sub, which was a pain to find a drill small enough to fit back there, dynomat top and bottom. Get everything all put back together and after two weeks of music the sub is blown. So where do I go from here? I’m open to putting a 10 or 12 inch sub in the trunk but I'm not sure what to buy. I guess I need a new amp. Can I go with a 4ohm sub and amp? Any suggestions would be great as I want something that will last this time and bass sound a lot cleaner. Here are some pics of my setup that did not last long.

FRST4DR

Here are my pictures of my install gone bad.

Kracker

That sucks that your sub died. That is the cleanest *simple* install I have seen... What went wrong.

I would get JL to replace your sub. Did the amp die too? Why do you need a new one?

I would have recommend getting JL stuff, but that didnt work out to well. Alpine?

FRST4DR

The amp is still good but it's only rated 125 rms watts at 4 ohms and 200 rms watts at 2ohms. Im afraid if I get a 10 or a 12 inch sub to put in the trunk now the amp will not be enough power. Also Im not sure what to do, stick with 2ohm equipment or change to 4.

FRST4DR

Also even though I dynamatted the crap out of it I still had ratles. Just to much bass for that area. I think there was still to much free air thats why the sub didnt last. Here is one more picture I forgot to post of the trunk.

Kracker

Dynamatted the crap out of it, not really.... I have dynamatted the crap out my car.

In your picture looking into the trunk, the left corner is a hole. I spent a lot of time covering holes.. The center seat belt, thats a hole. Taken it out since this picture.



Most of my car looks like this:



Headliner, under the carpets, trunk... Everything.

I think that because the enclosure wasn't sealed, and you were pushing it caused damage... I would have guessed it would just sound bad, not burn up or break.

I dont have any advice because I want to do what you just tried. I should take this opportunity to learn from someone elses mistake.

I think that you should go for a custom sub enclosure that I have seen in this forum. Spend the money once and be happy forever.

FRST4DR

Wow you do have a lot more. I bet that took awhile, I give you props on that. Yep I don't recommend what I did. The sound quality wasn’t the best. Even the third brake light cover was rattling when the sub was working. Yeah I’m going to look for a new setup in the trunk.

draztic1011

iTrader: (1)

woww...and i just purchased the same sub. I have PM a lot of people who say they have had no problems. Could have had all the settings too high? Or maybe it was a defective sub.

FRST4DR

Im leaning towards a defective sub but who knows though. It was not enough change in bass for me and the sound was not that great because I could not seal the sides were the seat belts come out. If I could do it all over I just would have made a box for it and put it in the trunk.

draztic1011

iTrader: (1)

I don't want anything in my trunk so I will be going this route. I was going to purchase a pioneer shallow mount sub, but I chose the jl since people have successfully used it on this forum. maybe for those places its difficult to seal you should try Great Stuff or one of those spray foams to seal the area because it is sound deadening. ill be happy as long as it sounds a little better and deeper than stock.

draztic1011

iTrader: (1)

also....how did it sound. in one post u say u didn't hear much change, but in another you say there was too much bass for the area.

FRST4DR

Certain songs there was not much change in. Other songs the bass it hard enough to make the rear bumper have a ratle noise. Good luck with the install.

draztic1011

iTrader: (1)

what did you have to do to drill the new holes for the sub? what kind of drill did you find? self-tapping screws?

ChicoOG

Something doesn't sound right...does the manufacturer recommend a sealed enclosure? How high did you set the gains? Was is wired from the stock amp to the new amp or directly from the hu? Better to isolate the problem before throwing more money at new equipment...If it rattled with the 8'', it will rattle even more with the 10''-12''

FRST4DR

This is the drill I bought. It was the smallest drill I could find. Not very powerful at all but enough to drill 4 pilot holes.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=4246047

FRST4DR

Yes JL audio requires a certain encloser ported or not. I dont remeber what the specs are on it. I had a LOC from the stock sub wires to the amp JL audio e1200 then to the sub. The gains were set at the halfway point and the sub level on the stock hu was at -2. I no I might have some rattles with a new 10 or 12 from the outside, though it should not be much as I am going to make a stand alone box to put in the truck for the new sub. I have given up on putting another speaker in the rear deck.

lars161

well, if you have not enough amp for the sub and you run it too high and run it distorted it will still blow.

And most people kinda know when you install a new sub you should be nice to it for awhile, like don't turn up the amp for the first week or two just run it pretty low to "break it in"

I think it could be a combination of the two.

Also, if you did get that sealed enough you prob are not giving it enough cabinet space. And some fiber fill in the area in between to "simulate" a larger cabinet space

King of Pain

Hate to give you bad news but this was a sub recommended for a small sealed enclosure (0.333 to 0.375 cubic ft). It sounds like you tried to run this sub as a free air sub and may have damaged it. Sealed means sealed, every nook and cranie needed to filled and sealed. Additional bracing between the two upper and lower frame members would have been a good idea too. This might have helped with the rattles. Also, getting an approximate volume of the rear deck would have helped get the sub dialed in.

I would check the sub on a different amp and your amp on a different speaker to check if they are both working.


Just for fun (or just painful to watch):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9rtG...eature=related

draztic1011

iTrader: (1)

so how come many people on the forum have been able to use it in this applicaton successfully?

FRST4DR

Thanks for the info. I'm pretty sure that's why the sub blew. I did not have it sealed enough, and it did state on the manual that the speaker needed to be in a sealed encloser but I thought I could get away with it seeing how other members had this same setup. Ofcourse they could have sealed the rear deck better than me. My next sub will be in a specified box in the trunk. I dont want the bass that you can hear me coming up the street, more a less tight clean hitting bass. I will do more research on my next setup.

King of Pain

That's a good question. Would those that have been able to make this work please provide input.

draztic1011

iTrader: (1)

This thread has made me stop before i install this sub. Im very skeptical now. However, this is the first person with a blown JL. Along with sealing the bottom squares, has anyone put cotton inside the rear deck to help the sound, as ive seen in many boxes? Likewise, even if he didnt seal every single piece of the rear deck, this sub does work in a ported enclosure, so not sealing properly would just affect the sound. I think he did a great and clean job on the installation. I really think he may jus have had a defective sub or maybe the amp clipped it.

draztic1011

iTrader: (1)

I was also thinking, is there a way to put vertical pieces of mdf board on either side of the sub to kinda make a wall to further help seal it and spray Great stuff or something for the gaps?

kinda like this: | \sub/ | <--- vertical piece
----- -----
plug plug

Kennedy

iTrader: (2)

I know why it blew... Overdriven.

The 8w3v2 is a dual voice coils sub the really NEEDS a sealed box to push against. DVC subs move dramatically to produce pressure waves, counting on a sealed box to resist the movement, and thus make "boom boom".

When installed ina free air application, the sub is not NEARLY as effecient, nor does it work as well... Granted, in this app, it work OK, that sub would hit so much harder in a truly sealed box.

As admirable as your sealing job was, it was in no way sufficient. The back deck is a giant grated frame, you can see all the other holes in it. It has to be fully SEALED.

That said, you should watch the cone move in a free air app, it goes crazy. If you overdrive it, with no box, the cone overextends... and in time, blows.

I've been running the EXACT same setup for over 2 years, but I spent a lot of time testing the gain... I'm probably 1/3 the gain with a high cutoff.... Every once in a while it pops, and I cringe... It's great, but ya gotta set it up right.

FRST4DR

Draztic1011

Just to give you some areas that I should have sealed. In the picture the two smaller circles could have been sealed. The larger circle on the right is of course the biggest area that I wasn’t quite sure how to seal. The square in the picture is just to let you know this is where most of my rattles were. I had to put three layers in that area just to minimize it.



The second picture just shows more areas I could have sealed in the trunk. I don't know if the holes around the dome light needed to be sealed or not.



Hopefully you have better luck with this project then I did. Main thing is like Kennedy said, you want to make sure everything is sealed.

draztic1011

iTrader: (1)

thanx for all the info. im determined to make this work.

Stew4HD

That was why I went with the shallow mount, free air type sub... though it rattles the deck area when turned up much (but that is another issue). The only other option I was looking at was the molded type that fits behind the driver's side wheel... still might end up with one of those

draztic1011

iTrader: (1)

i may end up selling my JL and purchasing the 8" pioneer shallow mount....since it says it can be used in free air applications.

Stew4HD

If you decide to go with a free-air/shallow mount, just knwo that there may be some mods required to attach the sub to the deck. I am trying to work out a solid solution. I don't have access to a sheet metal shop but may look up one and have a plate made for this job. I could draw up a template and have a shop cut it for me.... hmmm..

draztic1011

iTrader: (1)

guess the kicker doesn't drop in. what is the diameter of that sub? if I have to mod for the pioneer i'll jus t try my luck with the JL.

Stew4HD

You won't have to mod the sub but will need to mod up a way to mount it (make an adapter plate). IMO, it is best to have a plan in place before you start taking the interior apart.. lots of panels, trim pieces, etc.

Kennedy

iTrader: (2)

... or you can drill 4 holes and use 4 sheetmetal screws like you have to do with the JL sub.

The JL "drops in", but you have to drill 4 holes to keep it secure.
It's not a big deal, and nothing anyone would ever see at trade in.

It took 10 minutes to mount the sub, and a full day to dynamat this bitch.

I'd liek to hear the Pioneer shallow mount free air and see how it stacks up... but I'm likely unwilling to pull the JL. Too much work again.

Stew4HD

It was probably just an issue with the 8" Kicker I put in mine. The overall diameter barely covered the hole from the factory sub. If the diameter was about 1/2 inch bigger, I could have managed to center it over the cutout.... I will take the seat/rear deck back out and have a closer look at this.

draztic1011

iTrader: (1)

i've been looking at all the dimensions of these subs. Though the JL and Kicker need a 7" cutout diameter, the stock cutout is 7.4". So maybe that's why the kicker didn't line up on one side. The pioneer requires a 7.3" cutout, so it should just make it and drop in. Worse come to worse, ill have to largen it a little. Though the JL is a better quality sub, I can't even use it to its full potential in this application. Therefore, i will try my luck with the Pioneer TS-SW841D shallow mount. I'm sure anything will sound better than stock. My JL is now for sale.

Kennedy

iTrader: (2)

I think you should remove the rear deck and try both. Drive around all ghetto for a week with the cover off and try both subs, and keep the one you like. It's a 10 minute swap...
I think you'll fnd the JL, improperly used, still works better.

You can't use any sub to it's full potential in a free air application... Subs just don't perform well that way... Even those designed to perform that way.

Edit: wait a minute. The pioneer you referenced is not a free air sub either... It requires a box as wel according to this:
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAu...roductID=18773

Stew4HD

I am soooo tempted to sh*t-can the 8", free-air sub and go with the molded sub-enclosure that goes in the side of the trunk. I don't want to be heard from miles away, just want a deeper bass than what I believe the 8", free air can provide.

Does anyone on here have one of these? I think it will sound much better than the rear deck type... wonder if I should remove the 8" and leave the open hole for the sound/air to pass. Maybe just passing through the back seat would be adequate?

draztic1011

iTrader: (1)

What is wrong, I thought you said it sounded much better than stock?

Stew4HD

It does sound better but not enough deep bass that I was hoping for. I have to do rework on the sub deck mount first due the severe rattle when the sub hits. I think it is from the sub hitting the deck cover.

draztic1011

iTrader: (1)

On the pioneer website as well as the manual, it says free air application

draztic1011

iTrader: (1)

Break-in Period: Due to the complex nature of Kicker Comp VT speakers, they require a break-in period in order to produce optimum low-bass response. The high-performance suspension system makes the speaker very stiff out-of-the-box. Approximately 2 weeks of daily playing will allow the suspension to break-in and reach its optimum equilibrium. A broken-in subwoofer will exhibit stronger bass performance, smoother response, and greater low-bass extension.