jda123

Thanks. I keep waiting for a device that has autotune and then manual, but I am still waiting... I could not decide on if I should try a MS8, and still cannot.

For now, the bandpass, high pass and -12/24 butterworth on my amps are working just fine, so perhaps I should just leave well enough alone... but I appear to be a tinkerer at heart always wondering if I can make it better, even when I am perfectly happy.

I hate cars

That describes me as well. One of the guys at work wanted to hear it today and he was blown away. This guy has heard it maybe a dozen times. I started going on about the changes I was going to make and he told me "you're done, leave it alone, it's perfect, there's nothing else to do". It made me feel so OCD because honestly I'm perfectly happy with it as it sits but I want that extra 1%. The really great thing is I don't know what to attempt to improve on. There's always been a weak area or weaker than the others. Right now I have no idea where to go. I am ordering the SBP15 subs right now and I doubt there will be an audible difference but maybe after I install them I'll figure out something else that needs to be upgraded. Now that I think about it, the center is a little on the cheap side but I doubt I'll find another 6.5" that fits with no modifications to the dash and it sounds good as is.

With that said, I really haven't been tempted to tinker with the tune as it's sat for the last week. I tried adjusting the eq a little and I ended up with it flat again. I usually cut the center volume down but every line level, eq, and tone control is flat. Once the MS8 gets it right, it really gets it right but when it's off, it sounds like a clock radio and a sloppy subwoofer. There's a ton of tinkering to do at first, learning head positions, line levels, and tricking the TA into a better stage. You can calibrate in less than 2 minutes so you can tune over and over again and quickly. Since I got the crossover points right the calibration is very close each time.

xxx_busa

Tuning is tuning.................

Tune it listen for a week, decide if it sounds better, Naturally it sounds different, But different isn't always better, the point is, somewhere the perfect setting is there, maybe hard to accomplish with an MS-8 and passives dont forget to take 3-6db out of 250hz, your voices will get better......................

I hate cars

Just an update, still haven't changed the tune that much, haven't recalibrated in nearly a month. Today I felt like bassing out on the way home so I bumped it a little in the 25-40hz range and turned the sub level up so the highs were overwhelmed. When I parked the car I put everything back to flat.

I did however get bored...... I'm swapping the MD 142 mids with the Esotar 2 430 mids. Nothing wrong with the 142 mids whatsoever, I'm extremely happy with the way everything sounds but according to a good source this is a place where there is room for improvement and it can possibly make the midbass sound better as well by crossing it lower. It seems kind of weird to me having the midbass play such a narrow range, 100hz to around 300hz but I see lots of people doing it. I'm a little worried about changing something when it already sounds so good but hopefully it will be worth it.

jda123

I run my midbass from 60 to about 250. I overlap the subs from 60 to 100. Once you get the really low stuff out of the midrange, they usually do very well on nicer sets. My midrange is as clear and crisp at 200 as it is at 1000, so I keep the midbass low.

You save your settings - you can always go back. It is kinda fun to experiment when there is no risk.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Can you save settings on the 3sixty.2??

I hate cars

I do 100-900 on the mb. They're so clean without having to cover the sub bass frequencies and the 15s do a wonderful job up at 100hz. With the mS8 there are no worries of localizing the subs. The domes don't like much below 800 and the way it is now, it's clean and dynamic no matter what the volume. Supposedly there's a little to gain by going with the Esotar cone mid and crossing it lower but I probably won't shoot for anything under 300-350hz. It does have a ton of throw for such a small mid but I've learned to let the larger speakers cover as much of the bandwidth as possible. Everything sounds so much more effortless with large speakers covering slightly higher frequencies that what's considered normal. The amount of kick you get from a pair of 15s covering 100hz can't be compared to any 6.5" no matter how good.

From what I gather, the Esotar system sounds much better in a 2-way to 2-way comparison. The mb can go higher while sounding good and the tweeter can go lower while sounding good. Apparently throwing a good mid in there allowing the mb to be cut off lower and the tweeter higher will even things out a little. I already have the tweeters low passed at 5,000hz so that's not an issue but being able to bring the mb low pass to 300 instead of 900 might offer an improvement. The Esotar 430 is supposed to sound much better than the 142 as well.

geekybiker

Absolutely.

I hate cars

Settled on the JL HD series amps. Just installed the HD 600/4. I'm super happy with this choice. They have a ton of power and fit easily under the seats. I now have a 2 amp solution (600/4 and 900/5) for my whole active system. They power the 8 ohm midrange with so much more power than any other amp I've used. Power is on par with the Zed, the JL actually sounds a little louder and cleaner when pushed to it's limit. Otherwise it sounds identical to the Zed. The noise floor is non existent with the JL and very low with the Zed but it's there if you crank the gains.

I like how all wiring is on one side while the controls are on the other. It allows me to bias it toward the front where rear passenger feet won't have a chance to touch it and controls are still very easy to access from the front.

One of the reasons I really love these amps is they fit under the seats with ease. You would never guess these guys put out an underrated 150x4:

I hate cars

I also wanted to add that the subs and mids blend better now. This was never an issue before but it just got better. I always felt that if I had the subs and midbass blended well at lower volumes, the subs would begin to overpower them as I turned the volume up. Now they stay more consistent from low volumes to high volume. More power adds so much in the form of SQ and dynamics.

Fatfrii

man I'm glad I'm into soul music.....its so much cheaper to enjoy

I hate cars

How's that? The only music that I would say is cheaper to enjoy is rap. Throw in a few large cheap subs in a ported box and cheap tweeters that make your ears bleed and you've got the typical rap setup. For real soul music you might be surprised how good it can sound on a good system.

Fatfrii

dont temp me damnit! i got more important things to spend money on

I hate cars

Too late. The sickness is getting to you. I'm going to pull this thread up a year from now and say I told you so lol.

You have no idea how much I used to make fun of people that spent this kind of money on audio. Now I'm one of them.

Nick337

iTrader: (2)

Get it ready matt. I might be making another trip to Bakersfield.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Yup..you're screwed . Once you're here, you'll start spending money

sddale

IHC: I'm considering getting an MS-8 so I'm just thinking about the install. How do you have it hooked up on the input side? I was checking out the manual and it says not to use the the OEM rear or center outputs. I think you need the center out for the navigation right? Did you take the preamp signal and make RCA's? Where did you mount the display? Was the remote turn on from the head unit enough to power up the MS-8? Thanks

I hate cars

Using just the front L+R will be enough for all MS8 functions plus bluetooth. You will have to use the center if you want navi to work but keep the center volume turned all the way down or it will severely interfere with the processing.

I took the preamp signal and ran it though a line driver which automatically converted it to RCAs. The only part I'm a little hazy about is if you use the input side harness if you can use a low level preamp signal to it or not so that you don't have to make up RCAs. I think you can because I seem to remember someone correcting me when I said you couldn't.

I put the display right in front of the shifter with the wire coming from inside of the cubby hole. I have a small piece of velcro on the bottom of the door and on the display that will hold the display in place but allow you to throw it in the cubby if you don't want to see it or if you're in a bad area. The velcro is not visible with the screen in place or with the door closed. It looks completely stock when the door is closed. The neat thing about the remote is it's RF and not IR so you don't have to have line of sight to the screen. You can put the screen away and still use the volume function.

I'm probably not explaining the mounting of the display very well but I'll take some pictures tomorrow. I tend to adjust a lot or at least switch inputs between the ipod and HU so I need the screen to be there most of the time.

Here's my favorite. I doubt it would work on the TL's auto dimming mirror but it still looks neat and hides itself when off.
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1224980-post24.html

sddale

That mirror is pretty nice.

Hmm, I don't want to give up the voice on my nav. Also, I was hoping to eliminate the line driver. Have you tried to hook it up using the speaker level lines?

I hate cars

The line driver is not necessary but it gives a nice small boost. You can retain the navi voice. Just turn the center volume all the way down in the audio control section of the hu but leave it on in the navi section. I suggest starting with the navi volume really low because it will now come out over every speaker including the sub. It actually sounds very good.

sddale

That's strange. If the voice comes over all the speakers then why would the center be needed? I thought that the voice only came over the center.

geekybiker

Stock. I think the ms8 logic setup is what is doing that.

Gary Mac

What line driver are you using?

I hate cars

Gary- Using the RF balanced line driver. Not really necessary anymore.

So an update to the final system even though I said I would never upgrade again.

I have two HD amps, one under each seat powering the whole system.

I removed the trunk air vents and put a screen over them and cut the carpet for airflow to lower the Qtc of the subwoofer and bass is much nicer now, better integration with the front stage and just an overall nicer sound.

I swapped the Dyn162 midbass for the Dyn e650.

I swapped the Dyn142 midrange for the Dyn 430.

Tweeters are still the 102s and I doubt I'll be using the Esotar 110 ever because they are nearly as big as my mids. I did have an idea of integrating them flush into the dash, not sure if that would work but that's for a later date.

So I think it's done but I'll never say I'm never upgrading again because it would probably make a liar out of me. Now if only those 430s would ever show up I would be done. I had no idea they would take so long to get back to me after the klippel testing. Note: Jerry's (Niebur3) part was done when they arrived at the klippel and yet he's still helping to make sure they arrive as quickly as possible.

Oh, and MS8 is surely getting the boot. It "hates" the 650s. It seems like the more dynamic the speaker is the more the MS8 neuters it. I've found tricks to get the TA aspects out of it but with very little auto eq.

And just a note to myself, the current crossovers for the 2-way are 2,200hz/24db.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

You are the man, IHC. Thanks for sharing. I've love to see your final product, the visual aspect of how the bass looks and how the amps got got wired in finally. I'd imagine with the amps under there and the subs mounted IB, you have PLENTY of room left over.

I hate cars

It's like I don't have a system with the amount of space I have. The spare tire well has nothing in it and I have over 90% of the trunk available. The MS8 is behind the trunk carpet mounted to one of the braces near the rear quarter panel. I've got a lot of clean up to do to make it pretty and I still have to install the mids. I did take pictures of the 650s when they arrived but I forgot to take pictures as I was mounting them since I was in such a hurry.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

That's badass...not too much weight added and all your space still available.
I just got my 2nd mb quarts q series amp...another 20 inches long...ain't fitting under the seats unfortunately!

I hate cars

Thanks.

Have you hooked the new amp up yet? 20" lol. I've heard good things about that amp, I'm curious how you like it. Will it fit in the spare tire well or only in the trunk? It probably wouldn't be too bad with a false floor. That's the route I would have gone if I had any fabrication skills.

I saw one at our Anaheim meet in one of the SPL guys' cars that looked fake. It literally must have weighed close to 100lbs and pushed something like 6,000w rms. I believe it was a crown amp.

I hate cars

Here are some pictures of the Dyns I took and and the ones that are going in/just went in.

Old:




New:




And these are my actual 430s, pictures taken at the klippel test. The guy is in no hurry to send them back to me or even communicate, they haven't even been shipped yet so I'm not sending my 650s to be tested as we had planned.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...0/449c8072.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...0/69441554.jpg

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Wow are you serious?? That binkipup or whatever the hell his name is wont even get back to you?? That's messed up. I thought about shipping him my Massive RK6 mid just to see how they fair against others...but not now. Hope everything gets back to you ok. Interested to hear your interpretations about the acoustic differences between the old and the new 430's. I want to try those Scan 12m midranges now pretty bad..

I hate cars

Well, he said they would be out Thursday or Friday so he's not late yet. Oh well, I can't install them till next Friday anyway but I was really looking forward to getting them this weekend. He's really doing the community a favor by doing this testing but there's no way I'm giving up my 650s for this long so the wait has definitely changed my attitude toward sending in speakers that I'm currently using.

Those Scans seem like a real bargain. Right now I'm thinking about putting the Scans in the GF's car as a "present" so I can get some listening time with them. Totally different cars but I'm interested in comparing them.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Haha I like your thinking. I just wish there was a better way for me to run active with a 3-way front setup. Know of any way I could add a 3" or 4" midrange and be active or sound good??

I mean I could take the subs off and just use them straight from the PDX as it's the same slope as I'm using now (24db) and I can set my x-over the same. No TA through this channel though. I've also got the Center but it's just a single speaker so I doubt it has TA. Even if it did it wouldn't work for 2. Maybe I should worry about getting a nicer set instead of trying 3-way. ugh..who knows

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Gorgeous speakers...wow...no frills, just serious looking high end speaker. This thread and you have me thinking about IB a lot lately.

I hate cars

Yeah, these Dyns are just so incredibly natural and life-like. There's no harshness or dullness, just life like. I heard the Focal Utopic Be speakers and they sound very, very good but that life like quality the Dyns possess is missing. They just play every type of music well with so much pop and sizzle of the snare, vocals that sound like the singer is sitting on the dash and detail unlike any other without being harsh.

IB is just so nice sounding especially with these subs. There's details in bass that you never knew were there. I lowered the overall QTC of the subs and I played the 1812 overture after listening to Jon Whitledge's Magic Bus (google it, it's awesome). When the cannons go off not only do you have the big boom but there's so much detail in those cannon blasts that usually sound like just a big boom. Absolutely amazing setup. So detailed and yet powerful. I wish someone else could hear these to see what I'm talking about. The power requirements are ridiculously low. 250w each flexes the windshield. Any speaker that has the right specs will sound better in IB. Less distortion and more accurate production.

Steven Bell

iTrader: (2)

Dude, I wish I could hear your setup....

I hate cars

I wish we could get a meet together somewhere in the middle where the drive would be bearable. I'm driving as far east as Mississippi next year and I plan to visit some members of this board, hopefully Jerry as well and I think he's in your area. It would be nice to meet you. By then my speakers should be fully broken in with their crazy 100+hr break-in.

On another note, I'm upgrading to the MW-130 tweeter and figuring out how to fit it later. Hopefully then I will be done for good.

simplicityinsound

when its finally totally done, take a drive up to SJ when we have our next comp

I hate cars

Will do. Were you at this last meet? I had a lot of fun. It would have been more fun if I wasn't up all night trying to install my 650s only to have the MS8 "reject" them but I enjoyed listening to everyone else's stuff.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

man...the amount of knowledge you have I thought your TL would be the fastest on the forum not the best sounding TL on the forum....

damn def do want to hear your setup....

I hate cars

It's been fun because a year ago I didn't know the first thing about this stuff. I was the one asking all of the annoying noob questions. It's been a bit overwhelming with the amount of knowledge required to even begin putting something decent together. I can think of a couple TLs that probably sound better than mine but I think this has been a great journey and a wonderful daily driver setup with almost no compromises in space and weight.