TranceAddict

Nice progress ! Good read on the Tempest X

16psibrick

looking great! should bring it up for one of the next SQ comps i am hosing up here in SJ...love to hear it!

b

I hate cars

Thanks. Lol. It's no where near competition level, just a fun daily driver system. But I would love to bring it up there anyway to check out some of the other cars. It seems like every time I go to one of those events I end up changing just about everything in my system.

What's your "16psibrick"? Where have I heard of you before? Maybe DIYMA?

16psibrick

i am not sure why sometimes i post on tihs forum, its under 16psibrick (a nod to my old volvo days)

and sometimes i post, it comes up as Simplicity In Sound

i did chicoOG's TL recently, and quite a few other TLs on the board.

I hate cars

Oh wow, I saw it on DIYMA. Very nice work! I heard his car a couple years back with his old combo and I can't imagine it sounding better than that. That was some amazing work.

Do you mind if I post a link to it over here?

simplicityinsound

i think someone already beat you to it : )

which iterate did you hear? this is the third version in his car i worked on, the original install before i got the car was a bit less than desirable, the first version i did had it all in the floor, the second version had two sideward facing DIYMA 12" subs...but i have to say, this latest version sounds MUCH better than either of those two

I hate cars

It was the sideways mounted DIYMA 12", one on either side. It sounded great to me, I had never heard an SQ car before that point. I stepped on the drivers' side mid by accident. Felt pretty bad for a while after that, luckily it was covered. I believe it had Zapco amps. The only negative thing I can think of was I thought the subs could've used a little more snap but who was I to critisize at that point.

I hate cars

One thing I forgot, I would love to hear any and all cars in the upcoming competition. Without hearing something better than mine, I would have no idea which direction to go next or where mine is lacking. I remember the days of thinking mine was awesome with some Infinities powered off the stock amp and a couple 12s in an undersized box in the trunk. It wasn't until I got blown away by a single 10W7 with some $300 comps in a truck that I realized that mine sucked.

niebur3

You can come to the KC meet and listen to mine...lol! Just a short jaunt east .

I hate cars

Man, I would love to. If I had the time and could afford it I would be at the meet. You have the speakers (Esotars) both comps and subs that I want to hear most. With what I paid for another factory radio I could've had enough gas to get me most of the way out there.

The Esotar sub was brought up in one of the IB threads over at DIYMA today btw. I REALLY want to compare it to the IB15s. The one review I heard of it by some guy with a G35 described it as the most perfect sub out there. His review was actually very detailed and had me saving up for it before I discovered the cheaper IB15s. When you get the time, would you mind giving a brief review..... unless I missed it in your build thread.

Way off topic but it's time for some new toys in the upcoming months. I'll be texting you when I get my replacement phone.

Nick337

iTrader: (2)

I swear you must eat those cell phones lol.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Dude, funny enough...I sometimes avoid hearing new systems...or driving faster cars etc. Being ignorant is better...and cheaper .
The money pit never stops...so I eventually have to stop the bleeding. Ha ha...

That said, I DO want to look into possibly attempting a little infinite baffle setup.

I hate cars

This is my 5th Droid II Global replacement. I can't express just how much I hate this phone. They're finally going to replace it with an Iphone. The only thing it can do is surf the internet. Making calls or texting, forget it. It has screwed up so many business deals and meetings.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Wow...that is absolutely annoying!
Iphone should be better, let's hope.

simplicityinsound

there is a comp coming up in huntington beach
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...june-18-a.html

you should go for sure, i think Mike is gonna try to be there

I hate cars

I'll go for sure but probably not compete. It would still be cool (but intimidating) for any of you guys to hear my system for any pointers.

Just an update, I have sort of an odd setup now but I'm loving it. The subs are low passed at 120hz, midbass at 120hz. Center at 80hz. Going to leave the subs and midbass where they are for now and try going down to 63hz for the center. Having a decent 6.5" in there has opened up a whole new world of possibilities. It sounded better out of the box and each time I lower the high pass it sounds better. Can't wait to try 63hz tomorrow.

simplicityinsound

once you go you will realize that most of us dont take ourselves thats seriously, its all about a bonding and learning experience and to have fun...go, listen to others cars, have others liten to your cars, i would say get judged just because you can have some very useful constructive critique of your car, versus others who may just give you more generic opinions

go, have fun and stop worry about it or be intimidated, you are just one of us who are into SQ and car audio

csmeance

are you using the Logic 7 option with the MS8? Also how many channels do you have the MS8 configured to? 8?

I was looking at the MS8 and saw it had logic 7 in it and I'll tell you this, it really makes the speakers sound like they've disappeared and make the music sound so much more natural in my 760. I don't know how exactly it works with the MS8 but my Logic 7 has settings 0-10 and I have it set on 4 or 5 so it sounds well balanced. At 10 the stage is in the rear and at 1 it's all the way in the front with the rear speakers barely working.

I hate cars

Sounds like a good group of people. I'll be there.
I had it configured to 8.... 3-way fronts, center, and subs as one channel. One channel in my JL amp died so I had to pull run the passive crossovers for the mids and tweeters so I'm running only 6 channels off of the MS8.

Definitely using Logic 7. Before I added the center I kept it off, it just sounded funny and lost dynamics. With the two smaller centers it was kind of the same story. Now that I have the 6.5" center it brought the system to life. So much more dynamic and life-like.

Even with Logic 7 off, the stage is very nice. You can barely tell where the sound is coming from, it's up high and on the dash. With it on, it sounds like there's a band out on the hood and wider than the car. You can not tell where the individual speakers are by the sound only.

I'm in a dilema now to retain the passives and use the extra two channels for the rears or to go back to full active. There's no doubt it sounded better with the mids high passed at 600 and low passed to 5,000 vs 900 and 3,500. However, I want to at least hook up the rears just once to see how it sounds with the full Logic 7 working.
I've heard the one in the Bimmers, very nice. Listening to my boss's 760 helped make my decision to go with the MS8.

csmeance

The Logic 7 works VERY well with the rear speakers added onto it. Like I said before it uses the rear as fill for some portions and as well to give a more realistic surround effect.

If you want a good song to showcase the Logic 7's surround abilities, Listen to the song "Bright Lights Bigger City" From Cee Lo Green. The beginning of the song really helps with figuring how harsh to make the higher notes and getting them dialed in just right. The good amount of bass and mids helps as well.

Also another song you might want to try out is "Be With You" from Akon.

Another song which is kinda techno but less Hip-Hop is from Owl City and is called "Sky Diver" and it has a good amount of Bass that's VERY low at the 1 minute mark. If you want to try out low bass that's a bit looser, you may want to look at their song "The SaltWater Room".

simplicityinsound

having installed a dozen MS8s now, i have to say its a very cool piece, the logic 7 setup in that thing is perhaps the first surround sound that works well in the automotive environment with so little tuning time.

if you ever catch the SQ comp bug though, you may find that the lack self tuning becomes a hinderance. its super duper easy to get to say 85-90 percent of the systems overall capability but to achieve that last 10 percent, as most competitors do, is really hard, because its almost impossible to generate the same baseline autotune everytime, regardless of how steady you position your head...

this is why i highly reocmmend it to my guys who are just into good sq, and almost 100 percent not recommend it to the guys who want to seriously compete but as mentioned, its perhaps the perfect piece for 99 percent of the consumer public.

at the comp you will get to hear both kinds of cars, those with ms8 and those with other self-tune processors, see what you think.

b

I hate cars

I think that's the best description of the MS8 I've heard. I feel like I'm 80-90% there but it seems like I"m at a brick wall now. Same thing with the auto tune, it's never the same even if you change NOTHING.

The good thing about it is I've had to learn about stuff I didn't know just 6 months ago. I didn't even know what a crossover slope was. Now I feel like I know enough to mess around with some of the other processors. It may take a few months (at least) to get to where the MS8 has already gotten me but at least I'll have the opportunity for that last 10%.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Looks great man! Any more pics of how you sealed the it all up, bracing, etc?

What's your impressions now? I know you loved them more than anything when you first got 'em set up...what about now

I hate cars

Still love them. I got a 3 day break during my cruise and just listened to them again. With the system balanced (not bass heavy), they just disappear. The low end is there but you can't tell where the mids end and the subs begin. And as before, they just play every type of music flawlessly. The sound doesn't change as you increase the volume. I never noticed that other subs do this until I installed these and realized that they don't change.

I had to finally push these subs and I've never heard such good deep clean bass as "down on you" by jeremih and 50 Cent. I wanted to see how these "SQ" subs would do. I have to say, it is the cleanest loud and low bass that I've heard bar none. It's impressed even the bass heads that have listened to it. Output is amazing especially for an IB setup. It's just so clean at such high volumes. Eyeballing the subs, they're not even using up 3/4 of their xmax at that level. I took it out to my stereo shop parking lot to try it and it's the kind of bass that turned every head in the parking lot instantly. It rattled the entire store front glass and overhead and the car was about 20' away from the store. That's not how I listen to my music but I had to try it just once.

I have to say though, while they are about the best thing I've personally heard, the W6 doesn't give up much besides output. SQ alone I give the nod to the AEs because they are just a tiny bit cleaner at high volumes which is expected since there's practically no excursion with all that cone area, and they do play up higher in the frequencies. In the 20hz to 65hz range, the 12W6 is just so nice. I would still choose the AEs for that range but it's a close race. Output wise, of course the two 15s with more xmax are going to destroy the single 12" I had in there. Got to get a meter.

A little off topic but I found out the suspension on the 12W6 is good for about 3" of peak to peak excursion. I ran mine pretty close to that when IB and it sounded great. I might have found something that's 5% better in SQ than the W6 but I still wish I would've just installed a 3rd W6 from the beginning and called it a day.

I hate cars

Another sort of breakthrough.... It seems like every time I'm ready to rip the MS8 out of the car and run it over I restore to factory defaults and love it again. I was told by Andy to do this once when I was having issues with it and it worked out. It seems like each time you make a large change such as going from a super bottom heavy sub to these AEs that are balanced or huge crossover point changes, or a larger, much more efficient center, it needs o be reset first. I'm going to make this part of every tune.

I noticed today that when I hit "defeat" so that the MS8 is nothing more than a set of crossovers and volume control that it actually sounded better, especially the subs. Not what you want to hear from an $800 retail processor. So I was about to start tuning the system with the MS8 bypassed but reset it first and gave it one more try and wow, it's amazing.

I've been told repeatedly to use 24db crossover slopes. That's what I've been doing on everything but the subsonic where I use a 6db slope at 20hz. Today I used a 12db slope on the sub to mid point at 80hz and the same slope but at 70hz on the center and it sounds great, probably the best it's ever sounded. However, since there's no way to save a previous tune I have no idea if it's the crossover settings, the reset, or the new auto tune. If I could add one feature to the MS8 it would be to have the ability to save at least one full tune. The MS8 introduces a ton of inconsistency in the tuning of the system. One tune might be awesome, the next not so good and the really bad thing is you start second guessing yourself if the old "good" tunes were really so good or maybe it was just the memory. Then you get a great tune like today and remember just how good this thing can sound.

Almost forgot, might get rid of the Mac. It's just so huge. I had no idea and wasn't expecting something this big. I'm definitely going to hook it up and if it just blows me away with the SQ I'll make it work even if it takes up half my trunk. If it sounds no different than the current setup, it's out of here and I'm going with the RF and the Massive.

csmeance

why not write down the settings as you program them and the date you did it

That way you remember your settings and can figure out what changed and how it changed!

I hate cars

I've got a small notebook that stays in the center console just for that. I learned a long time ago not to attempt to rely on my memory.

The problem with th MS8 is when you run a new auto tune, everything can change. It would be great if you could change one parameter and listen to the differences but to change anything other than some basic EQing or levels requires a complete retune with the mics and everything.

What I'm running into now is page after page of notes with different crossover frequencies and slopes, head position during the auto tune, amp levels, line driver levels, etc and getting an average of what tends to have a positive effect and what tends to have a negative effect. On any given tune, what might have produced a positive effect previously could now be a negative but then again you don't know for sure because it could just be the new auto tune...... This is where my frustration comes from.

Nick337

iTrader: (2)

Time to get rid of that ms-8 and get a bitone.1

I hate cars

Or a bit ten lol.

Talk about a love hate relationship with the MS8. I was just one tune away from loving it. Now for the first time I feel like all the time and money spent was worth it. This thing sounds so amazing I don't know how to put it in words. I'm paranoid I'm going to lose this tune with a dead battery or accidentally hitting the wrong button.

I changed crossover points and slope and did another auto tune and wow! It's never sounded this good, not even close.

This is the first time I didn't write it down because I figured it would sound like ass. It went something like sub-lo 80hz/12db, lo to high 900/12, center 80hz/24db...... Not completely sure about the center though. It might've been 70hz/12db this time. Subsonic is always 20hz/6db. Wish I could go a little lower with it.

I turned the line driver down before doing the calibration which turns the whole system down. Turned the midbass channels down on the amp, the subs down on the other amp, and after calibration turned everything back up. Calibration volume was -50. I haven't had to mess with levels or EQ at all. For the first time, no bump needed in the highs or subs it just came out perfect on the first try.

niebur3

This is what scares me about it. You get it perfect and so much is dependent upon the code and how you are sitting and turning your head, etc. that if you ever need to change anything or the battery runs dead, you could be totally screwed and may never get the sound back again.

I am glad you are happy as it sits right now though. It sound more like tennis/golf than car audio though....you hit that 1 great shot that gives you hope, then followed with frustration and anguish until that 1 great shot comes around again!

I hate cars

Exactly. I just sat on the passenger side while letting someone else listen to it and on the "driver" setting it still sounds ok on the passenger side. Switching it to "front" or "passenger" it goes back to the dull, lifeless, processed sound we're so used to. I'll take what I can get, the only way this tune is getting changed is by accident.

simplicityinsound

go to the comp in huntington beach this weekend, ChicoOG should be there, and there will be i think a share of cars running the ms8 and tuen your own processors, listen to as many as you can, get a good feel and talk to the people...then you would have a better idea on what you should do

and bit.one, dont get the baby cheaper version the bit.ten, it doesnt have nearly as many features.

as usual, the KEY with doing a tune your own processor is finding someone to tune it if you arent comfy doing your own.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Matt, I havent tried but usually your PM box is full.
Please, send me your number. no homo
kthxbye.

Nick337

iTrader: (2)

I agree with you on the bit.ten. Its slightly cheaper than the bit.one.

Flipster23

iTrader: (15)

looks legit hopefully u come to Afest this year so I can check out

I hate cars

I'll clear it out in a second. I'll send you my work number, my Droid II is DOA as usual. I've also ordered a new work phone as it will no longer text and rarely recieves texts.
I'll definitely be there. I finally have something I won't mind showing off.

That's THIS weekend? I volunteered to work Saturday to pay for my Mcintosh but I'll see if I can get out of it. If not, is anything going on Sunday? I already talked to the GF and she would love to go down even if it's only for a day. I love HB.

I hate cars

Well, I've finally gotten some consistency and settled on crossover points. I haven't changed a setting in 5 days which is by far a record. In fact, I haven't changed it at all from the auto tune.

Tunes were all over the place, the mids were harsh most of the time and I would get ear piercing sounds out of them at certain frequencies.

I took a step back and reassessed everything. I figured I have a pair of 15s that will play into mid range territory, a processor that will keep the bass up front, the smaller 6.5" instead of the 8" mid bass, and dome mid ranges that are known for not liking lower mid range. So I raised the sub to mid bass point to 100hz/24db, mid bass to mid range to 900hz/24db, and mid range to tweeter to 5,000hz/24db. Center is at 100hz/24db. The system came alive with dynamics and detail I've never heard before. No more "weirdness" The best part is, my MS8 tunes are somewhat consistent now which is a first. I'm back to just enjoying the music which I haven't done since I went active. Somehow the stage improved dramatically. I would describe it as "fuzzy" before, now it's right where it should be and sharp. The difference is night and day just from changing crossover settings. I've since calibrated a few times and it sounds about the same every time. I guess I was trying to run the mids too low at 650hz/24db.

The JL amp went completely out. I ran it over about 10 times with the front tires and couldn't hurt it at all. Ironically, the best this system has ever sounded is with a super cheap Interfire 100w 4 channel powering the midbass and mids and a McIntosh powering the center and tweeters.

Going to order a Zed Levethian 6x150 amp for the front stage and powering the center with the MS8. This is the only 6 channel I've seen that offers this kind of power at 4ohms. Back to only two amps finally. Depending on how I like it with the center MS8 powered again I may order another Zed 6ch amp since bridged into 4 ohms it makes 600w. I could do my subs, the entire front stage, and even bridge the mid bass if I feel like it with two of the most efficient amps out there.

As of now, I'm loving this system. I feel like I've only been able to sit back and enjoy the music for a couple weeks in the 6 months I've spent installing and tuning it.

eggyhustles

2 would be insane


DO IT!

jda123

What is your final (or near final) take on the MS8? Good enough without the ability to tweak after autotune?

That zed could be the best 3 way amp on the market. The double band pass would be awesome for me.

I hate cars

It's hard to say. If I based it only on the past week I would recommend it to everyone. The auto tune has gotten so good, it requires practically no tweaking with the eq or levels. The stage is dead on, dynamics are back and clarity is back. The only thing I've touched is occasionally when you get a very bass heavy song I'll turn the subs down a couple clicks. But right now, 90% of the different songs out there sound good without adjusting anything.

If I based it on the past few months I would recommend against it. Part of this might be my own fault for trying to run the domes too low and the MS8 not being able to make them sound right. I also learned how to gain match which is something most people into this hobby would have done from the beginning. For the time alignment portion I sit forward and to the center for both seats which centers the stage a little better. The biggest issue I've had with the MS8 is no consistancy between tunes and lack of dynamics. I have the dynamics back, even better than on the passives (which was a big deal for me) and so far so good on the consistency. I definitely won't give it a pass for consistency yet but as time goes on, hopefully I will. In the beginning it was making my system sound like a clock radio with a subwoofer. No dynamics. Raising the calibration volume a little and changing crossover points compltely turned it around.

I would say if you get one, expect to experiment quite a bit. It can be extremely frustrating but it can also transform your system.

With that said, my next entry will probably be about hating the MS8 lol.