Max wattage with factory charging system
01-21-2014, 03:21 PM
#1
Max wattage with factory charging system
Coming from a 96 es300, I had a loud setup with a 220A mechman alternator. Don't feel like going through all that again.
What is the max wattage I can create for my system that my existing car can hold (factory). Any suggestions for maxing that out even more are appreciated.
What is the max wattage I can create for my system that my existing car can hold (factory). Any suggestions for maxing that out even more are appreciated.
01-21-2014, 04:55 PM
#2
Registered Bike Offender
iTrader: (3)
Well the math is simple enough: 12V * alternator output in amps = watts. I think the OEM alternator output is something in the neighborhood of 130A, so this would support a continuous load of 1560 watts. Obviously you're not planning on consuming all of that power continuously, but that would be the maximum output of the factory charging system. Keep in mind that it has to run the rest of the car too. As for the maximum wattage, it all depends on the kind of music you listen to: if you like rap with low, deep, long bass notes (assume you're talking about subs) then I would probably not exceed 2000-2500 watts on the factory charging system. (I'm sure others have done more power, successfully. Please keep in mind that it depends on the music you'll be playing.) Get a class D amp, too, as it will dissipate less power from heat compared to a less expensive class A/B/AB.
Also, if you're operating at the limits, I strongly encourage you to do the "big 3" to avoid unnecessary power losses in wiring from voltage drops due to high current draw. You'll want to maximize efficiency to get more out of the factory charging system.
Also, if you're operating at the limits, I strongly encourage you to do the "big 3" to avoid unnecessary power losses in wiring from voltage drops due to high current draw. You'll want to maximize efficiency to get more out of the factory charging system.
01-21-2014, 05:17 PM
#3
Well the math is simple enough: 12V * alternator output in amps = watts. I think the OEM alternator output is something in the neighborhood of 130A, so this would support a continuous load of 1560 watts. Obviously you're not planning on consuming all of that power continuously, but that would be the maximum output of the factory charging system. Keep in mind that it has to run the rest of the car too. As for the maximum wattage, it all depends on the kind of music you listen to: if you like rap with low, deep, long bass notes (assume you're talking about subs) then I would probably not exceed 2000-2500 watts on the factory charging system. (I'm sure others have done more power, successfully. Please keep in mind that it depends on the music you'll be playing.) Get a class D amp, too, as it will dissipate less power from heat compared to a less expensive class A/B/AB.
Also, if you're operating at the limits, I strongly encourage you to do the "big 3" to avoid unnecessary power losses in wiring from voltage drops due to high current draw. You'll want to maximize efficiency to get more out of the factory charging system.
Also, if you're operating at the limits, I strongly encourage you to do the "big 3" to avoid unnecessary power losses in wiring from voltage drops due to high current draw. You'll want to maximize efficiency to get more out of the factory charging system.
lol. check my old setup
I am always concerned about low voltage and don't want to strain it creating a pull on my amps. Just wanted to know what others were running stock.
01-21-2014, 05:51 PM
#4
Registered Bike Offender
iTrader: (3)
Haha no offense taken bro! You asked for an opinion on maximum wattage and suggestions for maxing out even more which I read as efficiency improvements, so I dropped my knowledge. :-P
Nice setup!
Honestly, I am curious to see what others are running on stock setup too as I've always wondered how high you can go without adding a battery/upgrading your alternator, etc.
Nice setup!
Honestly, I am curious to see what others are running on stock setup too as I've always wondered how high you can go without adding a battery/upgrading your alternator, etc.
The following users liked this post:
justnspace (01-21-2014)
The following users liked this post:
Vlad_Type_S (01-21-2014)
01-21-2014, 07:27 PM
#6
Registered Bike Offender
iTrader: (3)
I'm not sure what you mean, Justin, but I'll take it as a compliment.
Also, to OP: love the Brutus amp and LOVE the kicker subs for their volume/spl. I setup a Hifonics system in my ex's Celica: used their components and one of the Zeus 4ch. amps with a Sony head unit. I know these aren't top shelf brands, but it sounded damn good!
Also, to OP: love the Brutus amp and LOVE the kicker subs for their volume/spl. I setup a Hifonics system in my ex's Celica: used their components and one of the Zeus 4ch. amps with a Sony head unit. I know these aren't top shelf brands, but it sounded damn good!
01-21-2014, 08:19 PM
#7
Team Owner
Great advice by Vlad. In practice I would say 2400w of class D power is pushing it with an AGM battery and the big 3.
Mine is a SQ setup that will get decently loud. I have 1200w on the fronts (2 JL HD600/4s) and currently an HD1200/1 on the subs. I get some interior light dimming at full tilt but luckily my subs are very efficient so they actually require less power than the fronts. That's why it's not exactly fair to say 2400w is the limit, I'm not pulling 1200w from the sub amp. I run 9s in the doors in order to keep up with the subs and sound good doing so off of 600w total and they soak up every bit of what the amp has to offer.
So basically I have 2400w available and I get a little interior light dimming at full tilt. I assume you're into rap judging by the L7s tuned high. It's a tough call because a lot of the music I listen to goes deeper than rap but rap tends to have longer bass lines.
The Diehard Platinum supports the system fine on my music and the alternator has no problem keeping it charged. Most importantly there's not a huge voltage drop at the amps. It will go down to battery voltage but as many have found out, the TLs alternator seems slow to respond to voltage drops. Luckily the HD amps work fine at 12v.
So in short, the stock alternator won't keep up with the peaks at near 2400w but it will keep up with the average draw, keeping the battery fully charged. The type of amp will matter, especially one like the HD amps that will put out about the same power from 11v to 14v.
Mine is a SQ setup that will get decently loud. I have 1200w on the fronts (2 JL HD600/4s) and currently an HD1200/1 on the subs. I get some interior light dimming at full tilt but luckily my subs are very efficient so they actually require less power than the fronts. That's why it's not exactly fair to say 2400w is the limit, I'm not pulling 1200w from the sub amp. I run 9s in the doors in order to keep up with the subs and sound good doing so off of 600w total and they soak up every bit of what the amp has to offer.
So basically I have 2400w available and I get a little interior light dimming at full tilt. I assume you're into rap judging by the L7s tuned high. It's a tough call because a lot of the music I listen to goes deeper than rap but rap tends to have longer bass lines.
The Diehard Platinum supports the system fine on my music and the alternator has no problem keeping it charged. Most importantly there's not a huge voltage drop at the amps. It will go down to battery voltage but as many have found out, the TLs alternator seems slow to respond to voltage drops. Luckily the HD amps work fine at 12v.
So in short, the stock alternator won't keep up with the peaks at near 2400w but it will keep up with the average draw, keeping the battery fully charged. The type of amp will matter, especially one like the HD amps that will put out about the same power from 11v to 14v.
Trending Topics
01-21-2014, 08:19 PM
#8
I'm not sure what you mean, Justin, but I'll take it as a compliment.
Also, to OP: love the Brutus amp and LOVE the kicker subs for their volume/spl. I setup a Hifonics system in my ex's Celica: used their components and one of the Zeus 4ch. amps with a Sony head unit. I know these aren't top shelf brands, but it sounded damn good!
Also, to OP: love the Brutus amp and LOVE the kicker subs for their volume/spl. I setup a Hifonics system in my ex's Celica: used their components and one of the Zeus 4ch. amps with a Sony head unit. I know these aren't top shelf brands, but it sounded damn good!
01-21-2014, 08:25 PM
#9
Well the math is simple enough: 12V * alternator output in amps = watts. I think the OEM alternator output is something in the neighborhood of 130A, so this would support a continuous load of 1560 watts. Obviously you're not planning on consuming all of that power continuously, but that would be the maximum output of the factory charging system. Keep in mind that it has to run the rest of the car too. As for the maximum wattage, it all depends on the kind of music you listen to: if you like rap with low, deep, long bass notes (assume you're talking about subs) then I would probably not exceed 2000-2500 watts on the factory charging system. (I'm sure others have done more power, successfully. Please keep in mind that it depends on the music you'll be playing.) Get a class D amp, too, as it will dissipate less power from heat compared to a less expensive class A/B/AB.
Also, if you're operating at the limits, I strongly encourage you to do the "big 3" to avoid unnecessary power losses in wiring from voltage drops due to high current draw. You'll want to maximize efficiency to get more out of the factory charging system.
Also, if you're operating at the limits, I strongly encourage you to do the "big 3" to avoid unnecessary power losses in wiring from voltage drops due to high current draw. You'll want to maximize efficiency to get more out of the factory charging system.
I had an SQ system in my TL with theoretically about 2500 watts of class a/b power (2 ARC Audio 4200SE and 1 ARC Audio 2300SE). I say theoretically, because even though the power was available, most of it ended up being just head room. The system was extremely dynamic, but not bass heavy at all.
Last edited by niebur3; 01-21-2014 at 08:28 PM.
01-21-2014, 08:28 PM
#10
Great advice by Vlad. In practice I would say 2400w of class D power is pushing it with an AGM battery and the big 3.
Mine is a SQ setup that will get decently loud. I have 1200w on the fronts (2 JL HD600/4s) and currently an HD1200/1 on the subs. I get some interior light dimming at full tilt but luckily my subs are very efficient so they actually require less power than the fronts. That's why it's not exactly fair to say 2400w is the limit, I'm not pulling 1200w from the sub amp. I run 9s in the doors in order to keep up with the subs and sound good doing so off of 600w total and they soak up every bit of what the amp has to offer.
So basically I have 2400w available and I get a little interior light dimming at full tilt. I assume you're into rap judging by the L7s tuned high. It's a tough call because a lot of the music I listen to goes deeper than rap but rap tends to have longer bass lines.
The Diehard Platinum supports the system fine on my music and the alternator has no problem keeping it charged. Most importantly there's not a huge voltage drop at the amps. It will go down to battery voltage but as many have found out, the TLs alternator seems slow to respond to voltage drops. Luckily the HD amps work fine at 12v.
So in short, the stock alternator won't keep up with the peaks at near 2400w but it will keep up with the average draw, keeping the battery fully charged. The type of amp will matter, especially one like the HD amps that will put out about the same power from 11v to 14v.
Mine is a SQ setup that will get decently loud. I have 1200w on the fronts (2 JL HD600/4s) and currently an HD1200/1 on the subs. I get some interior light dimming at full tilt but luckily my subs are very efficient so they actually require less power than the fronts. That's why it's not exactly fair to say 2400w is the limit, I'm not pulling 1200w from the sub amp. I run 9s in the doors in order to keep up with the subs and sound good doing so off of 600w total and they soak up every bit of what the amp has to offer.
So basically I have 2400w available and I get a little interior light dimming at full tilt. I assume you're into rap judging by the L7s tuned high. It's a tough call because a lot of the music I listen to goes deeper than rap but rap tends to have longer bass lines.
The Diehard Platinum supports the system fine on my music and the alternator has no problem keeping it charged. Most importantly there's not a huge voltage drop at the amps. It will go down to battery voltage but as many have found out, the TLs alternator seems slow to respond to voltage drops. Luckily the HD amps work fine at 12v.
So in short, the stock alternator won't keep up with the peaks at near 2400w but it will keep up with the average draw, keeping the battery fully charged. The type of amp will matter, especially one like the HD amps that will put out about the same power from 11v to 14v.
But I personally love Deka. They are AGM deep cycle and NEVER had a problem. Ran one for 3+ years with good charging system and still sat at 12.3 at rest. Impressive for abusing it.
I am not familiar with HD, do they have a website? And yes, I will only run high efficiency amps for now on seeing the TL is more limited to charging system upgrades. Plus like I said, taking the SQ route now.
01-21-2014, 08:31 PM
#11
This is an outstanding answer. Perfectly answered the question!
It seems as if you are an SPL type guy. You should try and finish the rest of it sometime and consider an SQ or SQL system. Fits the TL better, IMHO.
I had an SQ system in my TL with theoretically about 2500 watts of class a/b power (2 ARC Audio 4200SE and 1 ARC Audio 2300SE). I say theoretically, because even though the power was available, most of it ended up being just head room. The system was extremely dynamic, but not bass heavy at all.
It seems as if you are an SPL type guy. You should try and finish the rest of it sometime and consider an SQ or SQL system. Fits the TL better, IMHO.
I had an SQ system in my TL with theoretically about 2500 watts of class a/b power (2 ARC Audio 4200SE and 1 ARC Audio 2300SE). I say theoretically, because even though the power was available, most of it ended up being just head room. The system was extremely dynamic, but not bass heavy at all.
and did you mean SQ v SPL? cause if so, disregard my answer
01-21-2014, 11:48 PM
#12
Registered Bike Offender
iTrader: (3)
Yeah man, for the price it had alot of bang though many look down on it for being a dirty signal and not efficient. They did GREAT for SPL. Now I had my fun with busting ear drums and leaning more to SQ setup. I love my w0's the sound quality is unmatched to kicker, but I am considering upgrading soon.
I'm also desiring an SQ setup eventually. I'm currently very satisfied with the OEM system and I'm spending my time/money on other mods, but after reading some of the AWESOME audio build threads on this site, I'm all but financially committed to do an infinite baffle build. (i hate cars has one I think!) I also wouldn't want to modify the battery/alt.
01-22-2014, 01:48 AM
#13
Haha that's just it: I got into the car audio game in high school. When I was a little baller with my McDonald's cash, I only wanted the most loudness/$ since I barely had any $ lol. My first setup was 2 12" comps with a Kenwood amp. Cheap as fuq but it BUMPED! The only kid that was louder than me had 2 L5's lol. He's my best friend to this day.
I'm also desiring an SQ setup eventually. I'm currently very satisfied with the OEM system and I'm spending my time/money on other mods, but after reading some of the AWESOME audio build threads on this site, I'm all but financially committed to do an infinite baffle build. (i hate cars has one I think!) I also wouldn't want to modify the battery/alt.
I'm also desiring an SQ setup eventually. I'm currently very satisfied with the OEM system and I'm spending my time/money on other mods, but after reading some of the AWESOME audio build threads on this site, I'm all but financially committed to do an infinite baffle build. (i hate cars has one I think!) I also wouldn't want to modify the battery/alt.
01-23-2014, 10:29 AM
#14
Team Owner
Haha that's just it: I got into the car audio game in high school. When I was a little baller with my McDonald's cash, I only wanted the most loudness/$ since I barely had any $ lol. My first setup was 2 12" comps with a Kenwood amp. Cheap as fuq but it BUMPED! The only kid that was louder than me had 2 L5's lol. He's my best friend to this day.
I'm also desiring an SQ setup eventually. I'm currently very satisfied with the OEM system and I'm spending my time/money on other mods, but after reading some of the AWESOME audio build threads on this site, I'm all but financially committed to do an infinite baffle build. (i hate cars has one I think!) I also wouldn't want to modify the battery/alt.
I'm also desiring an SQ setup eventually. I'm currently very satisfied with the OEM system and I'm spending my time/money on other mods, but after reading some of the AWESOME audio build threads on this site, I'm all but financially committed to do an infinite baffle build. (i hate cars has one I think!) I also wouldn't want to modify the battery/alt.
01-23-2014, 11:31 AM
#15
Registered Bike Offender
iTrader: (3)
Don't do it! The SQ build that is. You go from enjoying the music to constantly wondering if your stage is a couple inches off center or how you can get more depth, etc. Thats why I quickly started leaving the laptop at home so I couldn't adjust it. Plus the money spent is many times that of the typical spl setup.
01-23-2014, 03:00 PM
#16
Team Owner
Haha damn dude, you know what? I'm a bit of a perfectionist and I can totally see myself getting consumed with tuning it just right. I'm okay with spending more money for the clarity, but I don't think I'll be springing for the component sets over $1k. I did some lurking at diyma so I know how much a decent SQ setup costs and I'm already over the sticker shock. Aside from the cash, I also understand that I'll have to completely sound deaden the interior, relocate speakers to kick panels, fabricate and fit custom baffles, etc. so there is a lot of labor involved as well. I'm still going to do it because I have so much fun on those projects! But your warning is noted.
I'm more than happy, I feel that mine is as close to perfection as I'm going to get. I got the Dynaudio Esotars because the company philosiby is authentic fidelity and it shows. These give the closest to real life sound reproduction I've ever heard. Secondly they take retarded amounts of power and never sound strained or distorted.
If you get into SQ, get plenty of power. Each time I've upgraded to more power, the system sounds better, more alive, more dynamic and realistic.
Bigger is better many times, at least with subs and midbass. It's easy to fit an 8-9" midbass in our doors as long as they're not over 3" deep. The larger speakers deliver a more realisitc sound with less distortion due to less excursion for a given spl, all else being equal.
Same with the subs, I run a pair of 15s IB because being in my 30s I don't want to give up my trunk space like I used to. The 15s barely have any visible movement during moderately loud music which means they're very linear with very low distortion and with the additional efficiency, they have less power compression and distortion due to less power used.
I had a point to all of this but I've got to take care of something at work real quick. Real life sucks lol.
05-05-2014, 12:51 PM
#17
Haha no offense taken bro! You asked for an opinion on maximum wattage and suggestions for maxing out even more which I read as efficiency improvements, so I dropped my knowledge. :-P
Nice setup!
Honestly, I am curious to see what others are running on stock setup too as I've always wondered how high you can go without adding a battery/upgrading your alternator, etc.
Nice setup!
Honestly, I am curious to see what others are running on stock setup too as I've always wondered how high you can go without adding a battery/upgrading your alternator, etc.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
TLDude876
Car Talk
134
12-28-2016 03:18 PM
Yumcha
Automotive News
1
09-17-2015 09:01 PM
Yumcha
Automotive News
4
09-15-2015 06:44 PM