dtech

Hmmm...but I've already made an MP3 disc that contains about 120 tracks...so how would DVD-A serve its purpose then? Better sound quality? You compared the free method vs. Disc Welder Bronze and said there wouldn't be a huge notable difference...so then, will there be a huge difference from CD quality to DVD-A?

bluenoise

The sound quality of the DVD-A you burn will never be any better than that of your source files. So, if you start with a crappy 32 kbps MP3 and burn it onto a DVD-A at 96/24, you'll just have a very faithful reproduction of the crappy MP3. It can't restore the quality that was lost.

The reason many of us are interested in the DVD-A vs. MP3 discs is that our cars (mine's an 04) can't play the MP3 discs, but can play the DVD-A discs full of stereo tracks. If you car can play discs with MP3s, though, that would be easier. I wish mine had that feature.

rimz

i forgot that you had an '07 TL, which can play mp3 discs as well as DVD-A discs...you're better off just burning MP3 discs...you'll get basically the same quality and save some time not having to convert mp3 files to WAV or FLAC...

and yes, there is a huge difference from CD to DVD-A quality...the quality is at least twice as good, plus with 5.1 surround sound, you can really 'feel' the instruments being played...

bmode

Yes Bluenoise is correct. Your only as good as your source no matter what the format, bit-depth or frequency. The only reason that Rimz and I were trying to get the most is that I stated I'm burning my own music created from Logic Pro which exports 32-bit and 96khz audio files, and I don't want to lose a generation by a conversion of any kind. Although we know 32-bit float won't work anyway, but I'm now exporting 24-bit 48khz from now on to maintain a lossless flow to my TL.

By the way, I just made a trip from San Francisco to LA in four hours. I took interstate 5 all the way down at 1am with no one on the road. The cruise control was at 90mph, but I hit 120mph a couple of times. It's the first time I opened her up, and it was pretty dang smooth. I'm gonna miss this car when I turn her in next November...

rimz

four hours, so that's like 1 DVD-A disc...

fastest i've gotten mine up to was 105mph...but yes, very smooth indeed...if my eyes were closed i would've never known i was going so fast...

why are you getting rid of your TL next November? ...if that's when the 2009 TL's are coming out, then i'll be joining you, because that's what i'm waiting for...

bmode

My lease is up next November, and I'm considering another one, unless my company has something else in mind.

Back to the DVD-a thing. I'm really pissed off right now. DVD-Audiofile is not working properly and I can't figure it out. Sometimes it makes the ISO file with no problem but I can't make an ISO file with a bunch(20 or more) of tracks?

bmode

Aight, it's done. FLAC file is the one! Rimz you were right all along by using .flac file format! DVD-Audiofile does support 24-bit depths, even at 96khz, but use .flac files with it, as .wav are not reliable and creating the ISO file is incomplete.

However, Switch does not support batch processing of 96khz files unless you pay for the full application. So I downloaded Max 0.7.1, and used it to do batches, and it works flawlessly.

1) get the best files possible (from DVD, CD, mp4 or mp3)
2) convert the audio file to .flac in any bit-depth or frequency. (Max 0.7.1)
3) drop those .flac files in DVD-Audiofile.
4) make the ISO file.
5) use Toast or Disk Utility to burn the DVD.

Any specific questions, holla... I'm going to bed....

rimz

i think we've officially figured out most of the dvd-a creating problems...and now have all the specifics laid out...

yeah, WAV can cause major problems...stick with FLAC...

i...uh....'paid' for switch....so i use that for batch processing...never tried out Max...

i'm about 2/3 done with my next dvd-a disc, so i'll definitely be using the new settings you've uncovered...

bmode

werd.

dtech

so the DVD-A disc will sound substantially better than an MP3 disc, correct? Honestly, I feel that there is degradation in sound when burning the disc into MP3 vs. normal audio CD...

rimz

dtech, like stated above, creating our own dvd-a discs are only as good as the source files we use to create them...i don't know about substantially, but they will be of better quality (frequency and bit rate) than mp3 cds...

commercial dvd-a discs will be substantially better because you'll be able to hear each instrument individually better (if you listen close enough)...plus the clarity is much better (you can turn up the volume and the sound will still be crisp)...

these are my observations from experience...the technical data will give you all the numbers you're looking for as far as the exact difference between them...

what program are you using to burn your mp3 disc? ...i used to burn mp3 discs when i had my alpine deck in my previous car...the sound was pretty good...at least i got i what i expected from an mp3...i only get 128kpbs and 192kbps mp3 files...

allykahn

iTrader: (1)

Just burned 4 DVD-A discs at 99 songs each on my Mac. This is very nice!

bmode

It is sweet indeed. The whole process to make these DVD-A discs take a minute, but in the long run it's worth it. I also just realized that the FLAC file is still compression. It's lossless and all, but it's still a compressed audio format. It's hard to tell because there is so much headroom on the DVD-A compared to a standard CD. I guess it all relies on your source and how well it was recorded.

Exported material bounced out of Logic at 24-bit/96khz sounds incredible! I just wish I had enhanced the stock system in the TL so I could really hear the way it is in my studio.

Rimz, did you try the new bit depth and frequencies yet?

rimz

nah, still gathering songs for my DVD-A disc...i'm at like 50 something...i usually put at least 80 songs on them...if you have any recommendations for songs, feel free to post them...

allykahn

iTrader: (1)

Listening to the DVD-A's that I burned, it seems that a few tracks are missing on some songs. Nothing major just a few instruments here and there...Stuff that I hear clearly on the iPod or regular CD. Why is that?

rimz

that's odd......what were your source files (mp3, etc.)? what program are you using to burn them? ...i assume you're using the steps in this massive thread to burn your dvd-a disc, so i won't ask what you used to convert your source files...

allykahn

iTrader: (1)

Since they were from my iTunes library, most were ACC audio files and some WAV. I'm wondering...One batch I used QuickTime for WAV conversion and then to DVD-Audiofile. The latest batch I just copied music from the library, put in a folder, used Switch to convert to .flac then to DVD-Audiofile for the ISO. I can't remember what was what though.

rimz

i'll bet my TL that the second method (converting files with switch to FLAC) was the method that WORKED for you... (and if i'm wrong, you're not getting my car)

but seriously, i've stated it before and bmode confirmed it up above -- converting to FLAC is the best method as WAV files have too many 'things' that can make your disc go wrong...or not create the ISO correctly...

i've never converted an AAC (which i'm sure is what you meant, not ACC) track, but it can't be any different than converting an mp3 file...but when you said you used QT to make it a WAV, i knew it was downhill from there...stick with Switch and converting to FLAC...it's faster and is flawless (has been for me anyways)...

bmode

Absofrickinlutely! FLAC files is the only way to go, although I've never heard of losing any musical information with any format? That's bizzare and probably something strange in your process? If your on a Mac, follow the steps above that I posted. Rimz certainly has done his homework, and now, so have I.

Things to look out for when making your DVD-A on a Mac:

1) When burning the .ISO file in DVD-Audiofile, make sure all sound files are the same format, whatever they are. 16-bit/48khz, 24-bit/48khz, or 24-bit/96khz. ALL TRACKS MUST HAVE THE SAME AUDIO SAMPLE RATE AND BIT DEPTH THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE DVD-A. Otherwise, the .ISO file will come up short and incomplete.

2) I've taken a few steps to make sure volume levels match as well from track to track. Everyone masters their CD's at different levels anyway, so take the time to bring down or up those odd tracks in your DVD-A.

3) Get the right applications. I have not used DiscWelder even after the demo download, but you don't really need it. Apple has given you ample applications to make your own DVD-A. I recommend these:

DVD-Audiofile(free)
Roxio's Titanium Toast 7 or higher($79) or Disk Utility in the applications folder(free).
Max(free) to batch convert to .FLAC format
Audacity sound editor(free), and
Cog to test your playlist in the .FLAC format *However it's an unstable application and quits frequently. At least for me.

Buono fortuna!

Magcura

so I read this entire thing...only to find out that with '07s, you don't need to go through all of this....

someone mentioned that they made a data CD-R with MP3s...what about a data DVD with mp3s? That way I can fit about 4.5 gigs of MP3s....will this work?

Also, the DVD player will ONLY play DVD-R? no DVD+R?

rimz

DVD MP3 discs have been covered on here numerous times....but no, the TLs don't play DVD MP3's, so you'll have to stick to either MP3 CDs or DVD-A discs...

i only use DVD-R, though others have said +R worked for them as well...though it didn't for me...

and welcome to AZ...

bmode

I had no luck either with DVD+R or DVD+RW's. I am going to try the 8.5GB DVD's next though... As anyone tried anything other than 4.7GB DVD's?

rimz

i personally have not tried dual-layer DVD's, but have read about others on here having success with them in our car...

by the way, i'm planning on writing a DVD-A PDF outlining everything we've talked about in this long ass thread and including any other info relative to this topic such as experiences and such...i'll keep you all updated...

allykahn

iTrader: (1)

rimz and bmode...

I have a question or two about sound levels between songs. How do I adjust it so that all songs are at the same level. I never really worried about this since I usually used my iPod, but since I now have the TL, I want everything to sound great so I am going to redo my discs.

Do I use Audacity to adjust the levels? If so, how?

Also, what program is better to use Max or Switch? I just downloaded Max...any special settings that I should use?

Last question, Should I continue to use the files in the iTunes library (AAC /WAV) for conversion or should I use the original source CD's?

Thanks,
Allykahn

rimz

Allykahn...

in itunes there's a setting to make all your songs be on the same level...you have to go into the itunes 'preferences' and turn it on...i don't use it, though...instead, i keep my computer volume at a desired level and play each song for a few seconds...if one of them is quieter than the others, i get rid of it and find another...or if it's not too quiet and i want to try and 'save' it, i'll open up my audio program (bias peak) and increase the gain of the song...

i've never used Max, only switch....so i'll let bmode tell you about Max...but switch has worked consistently for me as long as i've been burning DVD-A discs...

it really doesn't matter if you keep using your itunes files or original CD's...as long as your source file is of good quality, then it all depends on what you want to use...ripping CD's can take more time, so if your current itunes songs sound nice and clear, use those...unless you have a different reason for wanting to rip them off of your CDs...

allykahn

iTrader: (1)

Thanks. I know about the preferences but it seems that the later versions of iTunes doesn't do it quite as well as the older versions, if at all. Even if I check and uncheck the box, nothing happens. I'll do the play and listen method.

bmode

The levels of every song varies with any compressed audio. It's unfortunate but a good thing I guess to keep music creative and subjective that people master their projects at different levels and such. To comment on your question Allykahn, when making a DVD-A, I always check all the tracks using Bias or Sound Studio, so at least during playback every track is relatively close. This process is time consuming but I feel worth it.

Rimz had a good suggestion, keep a steady monitor volume during a DVD-A project, and it should be ok in the car. I wouldn't bother with iTunes playback levels, make the adjustments with other sound editing applications.

Oh Rimz, I applaud the PDF document of this whole thread. Respect. I just hope those who follow appreciate the magnitude of their impending good fortune!

rimz

so i've been working on the PDF guide today and realized something...

now that we've realized FLAC is the best format to convert our source files to, there's no need to worry about all this 16bit/48khz, 24bit/48khz, 24bit/96khz stuff...FLAC doesn't let you change the bit-depth, so it's constantly 16-bit...you can, however, choose your own sampling rate, but ONLY using switch, not Max...i've tested all this tonight and if you convert to FLAC using Max, your output FLAC file will be 16bit/44.1khz...if you use switch, your FLAC file will be 16-bit and whatever sampling rate you choose, up to 96khz!! ....so you could have 16bit/96khz and it will work...i've tested it...

FYI, the PDF document is almost finished...i thought it would take longer, but i've almost got revision 1 complete...

sistim turbo

rimz, remember way back when ,,,,when we started this thread. i am excited to see many are creating dvd-a's,,,,,,i am also excited to see your pdf document. be sure to send it my way!! hope all is well!!

rimz

man i can't believe it has been almost a year since you started this thread...damn that time went by quick...yeah, i would have to say a lot of people, not just who have posted in here, have used this thread to aid them in their DVD-A burning process...

update on the PDF: all the information has been written up...now i'm just putting a few cosmetic finishes on it and it'll be ready to go...so i should have it released later tonight or tomorrow...i'll probably make a separate thread for it, hoping one of the mods on here makes it a sticky...but i'll also link to the file in this thread as well...

rimz

here it is... The Definitive DVD-Audio Guide...

http://www.tloftulsa.com/dvda/

let me know what you think...

sistim turbo

WOW! Many people will benefit from your hard work!
this is the way life and society should be.
doing good for the good of the people!
rimz for president!

mikestr

Anyone know an alternative to DVD Audio File? I can't seem to download this anymore....

gtgt

funny I was just looking for the same thing

rimz

sorry for the delay...just now saw your posts in here...

what can't you download anymore?

besides a standard CD, the only alternative would me an MP3 CD, but you'll need an '07+ TL to play those with the stock system...or if you have an AUX input you can plug in your iPod...

ava

Thanks guys for the great info. I just did everything with my Intel mac and with the Audio File. The disc works perfectly fine until song 37-41...where it just skip through those songs and then the disc is ejected. anyone had this problem?

ava

Also...does the 99 songs applied using the Audio File and osx method to burn it?

pgemme

I just want to thank you guys for the info here. I hadn't been on the forums in a long time and had tried creating one of these DVDs years back; with no luck. I used DVD-audiofile 0.80 with Max and Toast.

Took no time at all and worked great.

rimz

nice

awesome to see this thread still helping others almost 3 years later...

jojo972

hi i have a problem or i'm doing something bad, i'm in montreal ca and i have an 06 tl no nav!!! i have download your pdf and try everithing .wav and .flac dvd-audiofile burn with toast and disc utility and when i put the dvd into the car it don't want to play it (FORMAT) can you help me please thks