Hi Everyone,

First let me say that I've been reading on here for weeks and have done a bunch of experimenting myself and am getting very disappointing results from my aftermarket stereo install. There are a ton of knowledgeable members here so I finally decided to break down and post to get your opinions.

Here's the deal. I have a 2004 TL 6MT with Nav that I use as a commuter car. I have a long drive, like to listen to good music loud, so I pulled the trigger on an aftermarket stereo install. I found a reputable installer, bought some components and scheduled the install. So far so good.

So, here's what I have: JL JX500/1 driving a 10W3V3-2 in a box. JL JX260/4 driving JL component C2-650's in the front and coax C2-650's in the rear deck. All of this is running off the stock amp through an Audio Control LC6I. The LC6I is wired off the stock amp outputs, and the three outputs feed the two amps. I kept the center channel off the stock amp and put a bluetooth converter in. I also have full fade/balance/sub control from the stock head unit. The install took a week, and everything works great. He did a great job, the entire thing looks stock (unless you lift the trunk).

But here's the problem: The system sounds only marginally better than stock. If I shut the 10W3 off, the four main C2's are hollow and lack any mid-bass punch at all. I've had systems before with an old four channel kenwood $100 amp and pioneer 6x9's that sounded louder and had more mid bass than this. I'm vastly disapointed in the sound level and am starting to wonder if the summing capability of the LC6I isn't really compensating for an over filtered stock amp?

At first, we didn't have the summing jumpers set in the LC6I so I figured the stock amp was filtering the mid bass from the 6.5"'s...So I set the summing jumpers and had almost no change. I have seemingly limitless gains that I've messed around with and all I manage to do is lower the clipping point if I turn them up--as in, turning the amp and/or LC6I gains up only lowers the point on the volume control that the speakers start to distort. And I'm telling you, distortion happens no where near as loud as I expected with a two amp system with four 6.5" speakers.

I'm starting to wonder if the JX series amps and C2 speakers are just plain running out of steam and hitting their ceiling, but somehow I doubt it.

So anyway, I thought I'd reach out to the Acurazine community and see if you had any thoughts on my issue.

 

I know what the problem is.

Pouring over the LC6I datasheet, it hit me all at once. ONLY theMAIN output has the summed signal—chan 2 and chan 3 are not summed, and arevirtually passed through direct from the factory amp. The factory amp isfiltering the rears and sub exactly like I thought.

 

I am confused? Your talking about the stock head unit correct and not the amp? You have bypassed the stock amp I hope. It can be used for rear fill and center channel. You should immediately bridge the JL amp and feed all of the power to the front components. Remove the coaxial speakers from the rear. Having tweeters behind you is a huge no no unless you have crazy processing. It would be better to run the stock speakers in the rear. With just a little rear fill if you want.

The stock HU is virtually flat in response. No cutting or boosting of the signal.

 

No, unfortunately we did not bypass the stock amp and ran its speaker level outputs to the audio control lc6i, which also is unable to put all the filtered signals back together again it seems.

So that said, bridging the jx360 would put something like 180w RMS into my tiny little 60w C2-650 components. They probably wouldn't be happy for very long.

 

So does anyone have any comments on the jx series amps and C2 components? Despite my installation issues with the jc6i, I'm still not entirely impressed with my amp and speaker choices. The impact and sound output just doesn't seem to be there.

 

take the FL and FR signal from the HU . 180 watts aint gonna be a problem. the sound isnt there because you have a poor signal coming from a POS factory amp. leave rears and center channel on OEM. I use a 5 channel XD and it works great, no experience with the C2's

 

So, I took the car back to the installer and he's putting in RCAs from the head unit back to the trunk. We're bypassing the factory amp and removing the audio control JC6I. We're going to start by routing the RCAs directly to the JL amps with no Line Out Converter. Both of us are a little skeptical about routing an 800mV max signal into the amp inputs, but we'll see how well the JL's handle it.

Incidentally, I got the stereo bug and know that I'm not going to be happy with the C2 components no matter what I drive them with, so he's agreed to take them back and install C5's in their place for no install charge. I decided to splurge for an XD600/6 that we're going to bridge to drive them with, so I'll have 200W @4Ohm to each of the fronts and 75W to the rear C2 coaxs in the deck. I'm also putting in a dual 8W3 ported sub box which will be run off the JX500/1. That 200W per channel should really wake up the C5's. I'm hoping that anyone that gets in the car will know, even at very low background volumes, that something very special is housed in the trunk...

So after all this, I'm going to have a JL360/4 and a 10W3V3-2 in a power wedge box for sale.

 

MadeGade,

I am confident that you will be extremely satisfied with your sound if you took your signal input from the HU (pre-amp) utilizing the front left/right. Also, if you intend to utilize after market sub utilize the sub +/-. I would highly recommend adding the Audio Control Line Driver to boost the output from HU.




The install above is IB with the sub-woofer mounted to 3/4" MDF behind the rears seats.

0/1 Gauge Power
0/1 Gauge Ground
18 Gauge Remote
1 RCA Front Left/Right
1 RCA Sub-woofer

I have Image Dynamics 6.5 Components w/with the Mid-Bass in the doors and the tweeters in the stock location (dash). The sub is the Image Dynamic 12" ID Max. I left the center speakers and rears on the factory amp.

 

That will be a much more successful approach. The coaxials in the rear deck are going to cause a huge soundstage problem. Go back to something without a tweeter back there, and bridge everything you have to the c5's. That is why we keep saying to keep the rears and center on OEM amp. The XD amp works well with the low HU signal. Mine is under my seat so the run is much less. line driver may be beneficial with your long run to the trunk or perhaps the JX doesnt like it.

 

I was gonna say, dump the oem amp for signal...it's dirty and limiting. That install above is fantastic and not very in your face until you turn the radio up. Nowadays though, I'd get the side trims body worked and go ahead and put in a double din for a clean and strong headunit signal. Working with the integration of OEM and aftermarket creates a lot of headaches.

 

stock HU is very flat and a great platform. Integration is really not that difficult. It just requires research and planning

 

I'm going all the way. I just found an integration kit and will now be also installing a kenwood double din with apple play.

Final system is kenwood double din, C5's in front, C2 coaxes rear, xd600/6 with four channels bridged to the fronts for 200w, and 75w to the rears. 12w6 in a powerwedge box and a jx1000/1d running the sub.

I understand the problems with the sound stage and coats in the rears, but they're already installed and I figure I can just turn the fader off and only run them if I want to. That plus I already have the 600/6 amp, and it seems like such a waste to leave two channels unused.

This will undoubtably be the best audio system I've ever had the pleasure of owning.

 

Like I said...dump OEM headunit/amp!
LOL...

It's not that it isn't awesome and flat...it's great set up to use it's own amp and all the ohms of oem speakers but mixing it with aftermarket was more trouble than it's worth IMO.

Aftermarket HU will probably be awesome!

 

Good info. Just bought an 05 TL and have been researching which type of processor to use and exactly where to insert it. Before factory amp (line level) or after (line converter). Thought I had ultimately chosen the Audio Control DQ-61 but after reading though various threads my thoughts have now changed..
Have been reading that OEM HU line level doesn't output strong/clean enough. I understand that good aftermarket HU is far superior but would love to achieve the stealth, clean appearance

 

ClayMation,

The preferred method is to take the Front L/R signal from HU (Pre-Amp) where is signal is clean/flat. Also, because the HU output is extremely low, I added the Audio Control Matrix (Line Driver) to increase the output. A aftermarket HU will be a much simplier install as it relates to equipment, however, the downside is cosmetic and getting the aftermarket HU to look like it belongs. The hardest part of my install was converting the Front L/R and Sub-woofer to RCA's. After that, it was all down hill. I had considered adding a Sound Processor in the mix, but after listening to the sound, I am extremely happy. I am using the Image Dynamics 6.5 XS Components (Front) with the 12" ID Max sub-woofer. For amplifiers, I have the Precision Power P900.4 (Bridge) for the fronts and the 1000.1 for the sub-woofer.

 

Thanks wlbolton for the advise! Will study up more on the Matrix Plus. Seems to make better sense. Since such a weak signal generated by HU would it be beneficial to locate Matrix at factory amp location (remove amp of course)??
Wiring schematics for TL only list front & rear LR line inputs to factory amp. I'm assuming sub if filtered through rear inputs as well as center is filtered through fronts? Did you get your sub preout just from the rears??
Nice setup BTW! Very similar to mine. Fosgate T1 12", T1000, P400 & Fosgate components

 

The rear and center channel remained on the stock amp. I took my signal from the front left/right and sub-woofer. Please refer to the below diagram.

IN
@ the Stereo Amplifier in the passenger kick panel in the 20 pin Black & White connector

Right Front + Black
Right Front - Gray
Left Front + Green
Left Front - Blue
C+ Brown
C- Greeen w/White
RR+ Orange
RR- Red
LR+ White
LR- Yellow
SW+ Red w/Blue
SW- White w/Green

Remote Turn-on -> Red w/Yellow
Amp Mute -> Yellow w/Green


OUT

@ the Stereo Amplifier in the passenger kick panel with the 14 pin gray connector contains the speaker outputs if you want to utilize the factory wiring.

Right Front + Blue
Right Front - Red
Left Front + Light Green
Left Front - Purple
C+ Green w/White
C- Blue w/Yellow
RR+ Red w/Blue
RR- Yellow
LR+ Brown w/White
LR- Red w/Yellow
SW+ Yellow w/Black
SW- Light Green w/Red

Ground -> Black
+12V -> White

 

Most jl audio amps support a signal input as low as 200mv minimum. The factory head unit, before the factory amp, has an output of 800mv at max volume. You can cut the wires, solder rca cables onto them, and route them directly to the input of the amp. No LOC needed, and most would argue that an LOC only serves to distort a fairly flat and clean factory signal.

 

Got it. Thanks guys! Anyone know if they make a female version of the 20 pin (in) and 14 pin (out) of the factory amp? A pigtail so to speak so I would'nt have to splice into factory wiring. Would be nice to have an easy restore-to-normal route, should I ever decide to sell.

 

flea-bay has a double DIN install kit that makes an aftermarket radio fit in pretty nice. There's still the problem with the half moon cutouts for the factory knobs, but I'm okay living with that for all the amazing features that come with a new Kenwood head unit these days. I ended up with a DDX6702, that has time delay features as well as built in cross overs... and did I mention Apply CarPlay? I'm truly excited to see this thing rock.

So on that note, it took a bit of experimenting to get where I am. I'm going to have a JL JX360/4, a JL JX500/1, and a 10W3V3-2 in a JL PowerWedge for sale shortly...

 

Yeah, the half moon cut-outs was not very astetically pleasing to me either


I did find this and figured with fabricating some fillers and possibly stainless/carbon vinyl wrapping the side trims it could look great!

 

I bet that's that brushed metal vinyl. Looks good!

 

Half moons or not, the install kit looks great and the kenwood is all in.

 

Wow, what a journey this has been. I have now upgraded both my amps, rear deck speakers, and subs since I posted here last. The current system has a JL Audio HD600/4 running C5 components in the front and C5 Coaxes in the rear deck. I have another HD1200/1 driving two 12W6V3's in a sealed box. If you didn't open the trunk, you would not know there was anything in the car at all, and it's been incredibly easy to do this install. The TL was made for an aftermarket stereo, and it comes apart/goes back together very well. I had to cut the doors a bit to fit the 6'5" components, but the rear deck ones fit well with a 3/4" spacer with no modification. I created an amp rack across the pass through in the trunk and all four crossovers and the two amps are nicely mounted to it, in front of the subs. The system sounds amazing and I didn't lose much trunk space or modify the interior in any way. Future mods may be to add a ZR800-CW into the stock sub location in the rear deck and band-pass it for more mid bass.

If anyone needs any tips, I have now completely diassembled the interior of my car about three times, and can remove the rear seats/rear deck in about 5 minutes--almost quicker than I can change the kids car seats over from my other car! :-)

 

How you liking the 12w6v3's?

 

how do you like that kenwood unit? it seems to be very well priced but i read some reviews that were not very supportive. i'm particularly interested in something with apple carplay. did you think the unit is worth buying and would you recommend it?