geekybiker

Also a quick how to on RCA shield repair
http://bcae1.com/images/rca/temporar...eldrepair.html
my next attempt to quiet the noise. Let you know how it goes.

Gryphen

If your gonna go with something like the RF BLD I would highly suggest the Audio Control Matrix over the RF unit. The audio control unit is 6 channels instead of 2 and will do your entire system all in 1 package. If your thinking about going the LOC way I would suggest using the Audio Control LC6i or the LC7. Again these units are 6 channels so they will allow you to do the entire system with 1 unit. The LC6i is a bad ass unit that has internal signal summing, signal-sense turn-on, and line driver. Or even better is the Audio Control LCQ-1 that is more or less a LC6i with 17 bands of equalization 6 for the front and rear and 5 for the sub. For the audiophiles I would suggest the DQL-8. Audio Control has been making products like this for over 30 years and imo one of the best EQ/Processor companies around.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWRyv...embedded#at=90

RBeachTL

I applaud your approach to systematically troubleshoot the alternator whine. When you connected your iPhone directly to your amp and with the car running was able to demonstrate music with no whine shows that you are dealing with a ground loop between the HU and the amp.

Did you try and run the amp ground back to the battery? I know that you should keep your grounds as short as possible but for troubleshooting purposes it is sometimes easiest to run a cable back to the battery as opposed to creating a new ground point. Your next experiment should be to use a better ground point, i.e. a more common ground point between the HU and the amp. If they are both at the same ground potential then there would be nothing to create the ground loop.

geekybiker

Grounding the shield did nothing. So you think its just a bad amp ground? I don't have any cables long enough to ground back to battery. I'll try moving the ground point if you think that is it.

RBeachTL

It's hard to be sure when troubleshooting ground loops. But you just know that somewhere you are getting a current loop. When you grounded the signal interconnect cable, did you make sure that you had isolation between the center conductor and the outer/shield conductor? What ground did you use for the shield ground? I would have used the ground that is in the cable where you got the HU output from. Then make sure that you have good conductivity between this ground and the shield all the way to the outer conductor of the amp inputs.

And yes, I would try a ground point other than the fuel pump ground point. I use the sheet metal in the trunk floor behind the left wheel just under the driver's side, side marker light. It goes without saying make sure that you sand/grind off the paint to bare sheet metal and then attach your ground cable to the chassis. Make sure that you are using a cable of the same size/gage as your power to the amp.

Is your factory amp unplugged? I couldn't tell if you were still using the factory amp for your center channel. If you haven't already totally unplugged your factory amp I would do so. I always try and troubleshoot the simplest configuration possible.

If you still have the ground loop after these steps, I would make sure that the amp its self isn't the problem. Sometimes the amp has internal grounding issues. If you could borrow another amp from someone this would be another troubleshooting approach.

Wish I could be of more help. Good luck!

geekybiker

Tried factory amp plugged in, factory amp out. Input completely detached from the factory amp. I re-grounded the amp to different sheet metal, scraping the paint, and using a non-zinc bolt. No go. Time to spend the money for the balanced>unbalanced conversion I think. I'm fairly convinced I've been as thorough as I can be.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

You going for the Matrix or BLD? The BLD can be had on SonicElectronix for $75, half the price of the Audiocontrol. Thing is that I'm not sure if the sub channel needs its own channel or not. I've heard that it should and that it will just cancel out noise...BUT the signal would still be a low voltage signal.

geekybiker

Neither. I found a used 3sixty.2 for a good price locally. The guy is out of town right now, so I can't pick it up for a week. The BLD is the cheap "good enough" solution. The Audiocontrol is the "I won't have to buy more crap later" solution. The 3sixty.2 is the complete solution.

Oh and the noise cancellation doesn't apply to me. I have a base '06. If you decide to run the sub off the front channel you should be okay. Its full range pre-amp. The issue is that you'll lose sub specific control (unless you run a bass knob from your amp up front) You'll also tie the sub level to the fade. So if you fade rear you'll lose the sub. Also if you do ever play real 5.1 audio, I'm not sure if the sub will be on the front channels. Since DVD-A kinda died, I'm not too worried.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

The dedicated sub channel is fine. I just meant it will LP all the noise in the system on the sub channel. That's why I'm not sure if I need more than 2-channel RF-BLD setup. I'm not trying to get too crazy right now anyways. Once I finish my last year of college then I'll look into getting a nice 3-way setup with processor, etc. Not too sure if it'll be in this TL though. I'm sure I'll still stick around b/c there's a good group of guys here and knowledgeable

I can pick up the RF-BLD and sealed box for my subs (about 1.5 after displacement) from SonicElec. for $130 shipped. The box shipped alone would cost $80 so it's a good deal to buy the box if I do the RF-BLD. Hell..the RF unit alone here locally is $110 so why not. Found a shop that will build a ported box however I want for roughly $150..also another option. When I had the sealed box modeled..it was flat as a board. It gets plenty loud for me already, just feel like 70+ is a bit "weird" sounding as you get that sealed box resonance. Ugh. Decisions. Good find on that 3sixty.2 though!

geekybiker

One thing to consider is that you can pick up a 3sixty.1 for around $100 used. I *think* it should do everything you need, but I didn't look into it that much.

http://cgi.ebay.com/3sixty-1-/280721...item415c4ffb09

http://cgi.ebay.com/RockforsFosgate-...item3cbaaf7910

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Yeah true. Didn't think about that. I wonder what advancements have been made over the years with the 360, 360.2, etc. I mean how much can change with basic stuff like this...

geekybiker

I understand its 31 vs 15 band eq, bluetooth, and a few other small things. If you're already spending $70 on a BLD, its a no brainer since it'll do 6 channels vs 2. I'm sure someone knows the differences though.

geekybiker

K- have the manual
f 5 vs 31 band
r,c 4 vs 31
sub 2 vs 31

only the .2 can-
Can link l/r channels for EQ
active crossover
change output levels (both have pots for input gain, only the 360.2 tunes the output)
Aux input

So you get a line driver with some eq and channel summing. Still a deal compared to the BLD.

geekybiker

I'm disappointed in myself. I used an Audio band-aid today. I bought and installed a $10 ground loop isolator on my amp. Good news is that the ticking and alt whine went away immediately. Bad news is that I feel like I'm missing part of my signal. Its probably mostly psychological, but I still feel like I'm cheating. One of the reviews from this particular unit said he checked it with a scope and its pretty level.

http://www.amazon.com/Raptor-GL15-Gr...3257245&sr=8-1

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

When installing the 3sixty.2, AC Matrix, etc..is it best to extend the factory pre-amp speaker wire to the trunk and hook it all up back there? They don't look really small like they'd fit unless you removed the factory amp. The Audiocontrol Matrix accepts RCA inputs/outputs so i guess you'd have to buy a few really short RCA's, cut the ends off one side and wire them into the speaker wire and then into the Matrix. Then RCA's out and into the amp. Seems simple and will do 6-channels for about half the cost of the 3sixty.2 (depends on what you can find obviously).

I put up a post on DIYMA for Wanting to Buy either 3sixty.2 or AC Matrix. It seems like these are the best "budget" things that will take our balanced signal and have more than 2-channels. Glad you found a 360.2 though! I wish there was more stuff on my local craigslist rather than the usual "Kicker 1,000,000,000 watt amp and sub in custom box" haha. I haven't had music for like 3 weeks now and when the trip to work is 45 mins one-way...it gets lonely! I've gotta buy something b/c I'm going insane. I figure I can use a 360.2 later on in another car so why not have all that EQ ready to go! Let me know if you've found any others while you were looking..Thanks! And keep in touch about all this. Hopefully we can get it worked out and help out people that might be new so they don't have to deal with this headache

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Geeky:

Looks like the E46 BMW owners had the same problem and the 3sixty.2 didn't work for them. They had to use the AC Matrix before the 360.2 to get rid of hiss/whine/noise. The guy said it would almost go into a protect type mode and not sound anywhere near the same, but that was all good when the AC Matrix was placed before it.

http://www.e46fanatics.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=399832

geekybiker

From what I understand the matrix has some sort of ground loop isolator build in. the 3sixty.2 does not. All you may need is a $10 isolator though. I'll probably continue my quest to kill the ground loop, but at least I won't go mad in the meantime.

geekybiker

The instructions on things like the matrix and bld say to install them as close to the source as possible. With balanced into I'm not sure that is important. I plan on putting the 3sixty in the back. Probably.

geekybiker

So I got used Rockford Fosgate 3sixty.2 this morning. Physical install in pretty cake. All the wires I needed were already there for my amp. Just spliced into them and it even ran off my stock remote wire just fine. No need to wire to the fusebox like I worried about.

So I ran through the OEM setup and let it sum the channels for me. I'm only running the fronts an sub through it. Its guided and easy enough. Its sort of amusing to see the before and after graph for the sub. Obviously there is a high pass, but it almost looks like a band pass arrangement below 30-40hz.

Anyhow, the ticking and whine is completely gone. Not even a whisper left. No more band aids. The sub is louder now as well. Adjusting the gains on the 360 in, I couldn't make the sub channel clip. So Eq magic at work. The real question is tuning with a RSA now to deal with cabin gain and the speakers response curve.

Additionally, I was playing with time alignment and I was able to get the stage to sound like it was sitting right on my dash. Neat. I've always ha car audio just sound like it was coming all around me at best.

So there you have it- the 3sixty.2 is a solution to the noise issues.

I hate cars

Glad it's working for you. FWIW, if you're taking the signal pre-amp, there's no need for the subwoofer signal. Just a front L and R is all you need to get full range.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

OMG that's good to hear!!! Can we/ME (lol) get pics of how you installed it??

I've got a few diagrams I drew on paper to post on here and ask which is right...I'll post them up later. Mine should be here tomorrow. School starts tomorrow though...last year!! I'm sure i'll still get it in asap as I can't wait to play around with it all. Ordered my new box today too. Now I just need to figure out how I'm going to mount this MB and PDX. I don't want to do it on the box b/c there's no way that can be good for them. Thought about building a big wall right behind the sub box (towards the trunk) and mounting them on the inside of it (towards the sub box). That way you open the trunk and can't see anything. The subs won't fill the trunk also if I try to seal it up like an IB type thing. Should fill the cabin a little better.


Glad to hear that though Geeky...we're set!

geekybiker

I thought that might be the case, but wasn't 100% sure so this was a little safer. I'll give it a go the other way soon. Any hints on the time alignment? It gives TA based on distance. I started with the sub since it was the furthest and started delaying speakers based on the actual difference in distance measured.

geekybiker

I'll get some soon, but it's loose right now. I might have room on my mount board, but I need to shift some stuff around first. Power + I got from my distribution block. Power negative I put a ring terminal on a piece of speaker wire and ran it to the amp ground in the truck. The remote line I just jammed in the remote post on the amp. RCA's that went into the amp previously went into the 360 and then another set of rca's from the 360 to the amp. Its a really simple physical setup.