Finally...Infinite baffle is just as loud as sealed with lower power requirements
Confirmation comes tomorrow. OPTION #2 will be like ^ pic of UNCALD4 side enclosure.... still not a bad 2nd option 
01-23-2012, 07:20 PM
#43
Team Owner
Thread Starter
The bolt is 6"x3/8". I used it to hold the baffle in place since I didn't have a helper. The rest are self tapping screws.
The screws in the baffle were put there to hold the two halves together while the glue was drying. Depending on who you talk to, the glue is the most important part, many people remove the screws once the glue is dry. I left them in since the whole setup is hidden and looks aren't important.
The screws in the baffle were put there to hold the two halves together while the glue was drying. Depending on who you talk to, the glue is the most important part, many people remove the screws once the glue is dry. I left them in since the whole setup is hidden and looks aren't important.
01-23-2012, 07:54 PM
#45
Team Owner
Thread Starter
01-24-2012, 12:19 PM
#46
Thanks for answering my questions. I'm going to go IB after reading numerous threads and posts. I'm going have 1 IDQ12v3 powered by a ID i5800 and for the front stage a set of Rainbow SLC 265.25 components. It's going to be a while before I get everything in. Also going to get a audiocontrol matrix to feed the signal to the i5800.
01-27-2012, 11:24 AM
#47
Drifting
Question: why use MDF for sound deadening when the back of the speakers face the trunk.. and the front of the speaker is up against the back of the seat? I agree about MDF in a standalone box, but this is just 1 plate of wood in a trunk and mounted against the rear seat. So, I don't see the point in MDF since we are not trying to enclose the sound with a box, cause the trunk is doing it. And the front side doesnt matter because it is up against the seat. Thats my logic. Would requre testing. haha
01-27-2012, 01:12 PM
#49
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Exactly. If the baffle flexes, you lose output and get unwanted vibrations and rattles. That's why 1.5" minimum is recommended. My subs only weigh 17lbs each, a single sheet of 3/4" MDF is plenty just to support them but it wouldn't stop the flexing.
01-27-2012, 01:15 PM
#50
Thanks for answering my questions. I'm going to go IB after reading numerous threads and posts. I'm going have 1 IDQ12v3 powered by a ID i5800 and for the front stage a set of Rainbow SLC 265.25 components. It's going to be a while before I get everything in. Also going to get a audiocontrol matrix to feed the signal to the i5800.
... LOL!
02-19-2012, 02:24 PM
#51
Drifting
I posted over on DIYMA and finally got answers.
I always thought when dealing with sealed or IB systems, output would be excursion vs cone area so it made no sense why people would say that IB is not as loud as sealed. In fact IB has the potential to be louder in the really low frequencies.
Sealed requires more power to hit the same SPL while IB requires much less. So when people saying IB sucks because it can't handle as much power, it's actually a very good thing. It can't handle as much power because the subs are able to hit their full excursion with much less power. The differences seem to be less at higher frequencies and greater at lower frequencies. Since the sealed box acts as a high pass filter, the IB can really stretch it's legs at the lower frequencies with very little power. In order to get the full power potential from IB, a sub sonic filter will be required to avoid damaging the subs. IB is not as idiot proof, much easier to damage subs as I have almost done several times. In fact I got to test the 15s suspension a little harder than I ever wanted the other day while goofing around on a 7hz test tone.
The thread: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...ib-output.html
I got to thinking about this when I was playing my 2 IB15s up against another guy's pair of 15s in a large sealed box and mine gave up nothing in output. Just another reason I will never go back to sealed in this particular car.
I always thought when dealing with sealed or IB systems, output would be excursion vs cone area so it made no sense why people would say that IB is not as loud as sealed. In fact IB has the potential to be louder in the really low frequencies.
Sealed requires more power to hit the same SPL while IB requires much less. So when people saying IB sucks because it can't handle as much power, it's actually a very good thing. It can't handle as much power because the subs are able to hit their full excursion with much less power. The differences seem to be less at higher frequencies and greater at lower frequencies. Since the sealed box acts as a high pass filter, the IB can really stretch it's legs at the lower frequencies with very little power. In order to get the full power potential from IB, a sub sonic filter will be required to avoid damaging the subs. IB is not as idiot proof, much easier to damage subs as I have almost done several times. In fact I got to test the 15s suspension a little harder than I ever wanted the other day while goofing around on a 7hz test tone.
The thread: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...ib-output.html
I got to thinking about this when I was playing my 2 IB15s up against another guy's pair of 15s in a large sealed box and mine gave up nothing in output. Just another reason I will never go back to sealed in this particular car.
02-19-2012, 03:47 PM
#52
Drifting
I also just noticed my box had slipped to the back of my car. Probably from a heavy foot. Anyway.. I had to turn the bass down. haha I ended up pushing the box back up against the rear seat and closing the windows and then the bass sounded lower or normal again. kinda weird. oh well
12-07-2012, 10:06 AM
#54
Instructor
12-07-2012, 11:22 AM
#55
Three Wheelin'
Anyone have a template for an IB baffle they can share? I need to do a better job with my in trunk mounting and Might as well move to IB while I'm at it.
05-09-2015, 04:18 PM
#56
Instructor
05-09-2015, 11:10 PM
#57
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Here are one of the only pictures I have left of my old setup:
Here's my new subs. This is during the install. It's missing carpet, moulding, just about everything. This was right after getting the subs and baffle installed. The wires are temporary, I just had to hear it so I wired it up super quick to hear it before I finished installing.
The other subs have a lot of cone area for a 15 at 825cm^2 and good excursion at 18.5mm linear and 25mm total before damage. All excursion is one way. My new ID MAX15 subs have more cone area than any other 15 that I'm aware of. They actually measure almost 16.5". Cone area is 935cm^2 and excursion is 28mm linear, 50mm total. That's 4" of excursion peak to peak! The other subs are touted as one of the best sound quality subs but the Max 15s sound better than just about anything I've ever heard. They will blend with the front stage and gently fill in the bottom end and they have good detail for a sub and sub bass. On the flip side, they're outright brutal when you put the power to them. It's more than I can take and I feel bad for the car when it's cranked up. Still, first and foremost it's one of the best sound quality subs I've heard.
Again, excuse the wires and the half installed mess. No where else can you have a pair of high displacement 15s and still have most of your trunk usable. They look pretty neat with the seats out too.
Here's my new subs. This is during the install. It's missing carpet, moulding, just about everything. This was right after getting the subs and baffle installed. The wires are temporary, I just had to hear it so I wired it up super quick to hear it before I finished installing.
The other subs have a lot of cone area for a 15 at 825cm^2 and good excursion at 18.5mm linear and 25mm total before damage. All excursion is one way. My new ID MAX15 subs have more cone area than any other 15 that I'm aware of. They actually measure almost 16.5". Cone area is 935cm^2 and excursion is 28mm linear, 50mm total. That's 4" of excursion peak to peak! The other subs are touted as one of the best sound quality subs but the Max 15s sound better than just about anything I've ever heard. They will blend with the front stage and gently fill in the bottom end and they have good detail for a sub and sub bass. On the flip side, they're outright brutal when you put the power to them. It's more than I can take and I feel bad for the car when it's cranked up. Still, first and foremost it's one of the best sound quality subs I've heard.
Again, excuse the wires and the half installed mess. No where else can you have a pair of high displacement 15s and still have most of your trunk usable. They look pretty neat with the seats out too.
The following 2 users liked this post by I hate cars:
bluescreenofdeath (05-10-2015),
csmeance (05-10-2015)
05-10-2015, 04:43 PM
#58
Instructor
That's incredible. Holy crappin XMAX batman!
I'm definitely doing this. Any recommendations on how to research for a budget build, being able to identify which subs are 'good' for IB vs. which aren't, etc, would be appreciated.
Thanks so much for bringing this one back IHC.
I'm definitely doing this. Any recommendations on how to research for a budget build, being able to identify which subs are 'good' for IB vs. which aren't, etc, would be appreciated.
Thanks so much for bringing this one back IHC.
05-10-2015, 07:50 PM
#59
Team Owner
Thread Starter
No problem, this ha always been a fun hobby. I'm at a mothers day dinner so I'll get into detail later.
Just about any sub that does well in a sealed box will do as well or better IB. The preferred specs would be Fs < 40hz. Vas < 200l for dual subs in our sized trunks or <500l for a single. Qts < .7 with my personal preference around .55. Vas affects final Q and final Fs. More on that later. Lots of cone area and Xmax is good too.
Just about any sub that does well in a sealed box will do as well or better IB. The preferred specs would be Fs < 40hz. Vas < 200l for dual subs in our sized trunks or <500l for a single. Qts < .7 with my personal preference around .55. Vas affects final Q and final Fs. More on that later. Lots of cone area and Xmax is good too.
05-13-2015, 09:10 PM
#60
Suzuka Master
lookin good!
06-13-2015, 10:56 PM
#61
So I currently have this 12" Kicker Sub along with this 500W RMS 1000W peak amp in a ported box. Would these be ok to do an IB setup with? If so I'm somewhat confused with how to actually mount and seal the setup, most threads I've come across has dead links for the pictures. Also what would be the estimated cost to do this for both doing it myself or bringing it to a shop.
06-14-2015, 10:03 AM
#62
Team Owner
Thread Starter
So I currently have this 12" Kicker Sub along with this 500W RMS 1000W peak amp in a ported box. Would these be ok to do an IB setup with? If so I'm somewhat confused with how to actually mount and seal the setup, most threads I've come across has dead links for the pictures. Also what would be the estimated cost to do this for both doing it myself or bringing it to a shop.
Which model sub is it? Going from ported to IB or sealed will lose output, probably around 3db or so. If you do a pair of those subs IB, output will be about the same and it should sound considerably better but it's hard to say not knowing your setup. Do you know what frequency the box is tuned to?
Over on DIYMA there are a lot of good threads with pictures on IB installs and just about every other configuration imaginable. You're basically going to build a wall between the trunk and the cabin, right behind the rear seats. It's called a baffle. The baffle doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to be fairly close, usually within an inch gap of the car. The rest you can seal with sound deadener, foam, etc.
You can have a shop do it but they will probably tell you not to do it. The vast majority of the shops I've come across are very ignorant when it comes to IB. IB has the exact same potential output as sealed. You can't run as much power to an IB setup because it's more efficient which is a good thing. Most shops only understand that you can't run as much power and they assume that means you lose output but you don't. The other thing is the sealed box causes LESS cone control but most shops will say you will get "sloppy" bass without a box. In fact, the opposite is true. IB will give the tightest, quickest sounding bass of all other setups and it will dig the lowest as well. If you can find a shop that knows what they're doing, I wouldn't have a problem having a shop do it. I'm not very good at wood working and if I take my time it's a 2 day job when starting from scratch to make the baffle, fit it to the car, install the subs, and seal it. I'm sure to other people it's probably a 4-5 hour job.
The only thing I would worry about with your subs is how much linear excursion they have (xmax) and how much total excursion they have before damage (xmech). Some Kickers that are made for ported enclosures have low xmax which is fine for ported and will work fine in IB too but output will be limited. In IB and sealed, the only thing that determines output is excursion and cone area. Ported reinforces the sound with the port so high excursion is not always needed.
The following users liked this post:
aameghoo (06-14-2015)
06-14-2015, 11:19 AM
#63
Which model sub is it? Going from ported to IB or sealed will lose output, probably around 3db or so. If you do a pair of those subs IB, output will be about the same and it should sound considerably better but it's hard to say not knowing your setup. Do you know what frequency the box is tuned to?
Over on DIYMA there are a lot of good threads with pictures on IB installs and just about every other configuration imaginable. You're basically going to build a wall between the trunk and the cabin, right behind the rear seats. It's called a baffle. The baffle doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to be fairly close, usually within an inch gap of the car. The rest you can seal with sound deadener, foam, etc.
You can have a shop do it but they will probably tell you not to do it. The vast majority of the shops I've come across are very ignorant when it comes to IB. IB has the exact same potential output as sealed. You can't run as much power to an IB setup because it's more efficient which is a good thing. Most shops only understand that you can't run as much power and they assume that means you lose output but you don't. The other thing is the sealed box causes LESS cone control but most shops will say you will get "sloppy" bass without a box. In fact, the opposite is true. IB will give the tightest, quickest sounding bass of all other setups and it will dig the lowest as well. If you can find a shop that knows what they're doing, I wouldn't have a problem having a shop do it. I'm not very good at wood working and if I take my time it's a 2 day job when starting from scratch to make the baffle, fit it to the car, install the subs, and seal it. I'm sure to other people it's probably a 4-5 hour job.
The only thing I would worry about with your subs is how much linear excursion they have (xmax) and how much total excursion they have before damage (xmech). Some Kickers that are made for ported enclosures have low xmax which is fine for ported and will work fine in IB too but output will be limited. In IB and sealed, the only thing that determines output is excursion and cone area. Ported reinforces the sound with the port so high excursion is not always needed.
Over on DIYMA there are a lot of good threads with pictures on IB installs and just about every other configuration imaginable. You're basically going to build a wall between the trunk and the cabin, right behind the rear seats. It's called a baffle. The baffle doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to be fairly close, usually within an inch gap of the car. The rest you can seal with sound deadener, foam, etc.
You can have a shop do it but they will probably tell you not to do it. The vast majority of the shops I've come across are very ignorant when it comes to IB. IB has the exact same potential output as sealed. You can't run as much power to an IB setup because it's more efficient which is a good thing. Most shops only understand that you can't run as much power and they assume that means you lose output but you don't. The other thing is the sealed box causes LESS cone control but most shops will say you will get "sloppy" bass without a box. In fact, the opposite is true. IB will give the tightest, quickest sounding bass of all other setups and it will dig the lowest as well. If you can find a shop that knows what they're doing, I wouldn't have a problem having a shop do it. I'm not very good at wood working and if I take my time it's a 2 day job when starting from scratch to make the baffle, fit it to the car, install the subs, and seal it. I'm sure to other people it's probably a 4-5 hour job.
The only thing I would worry about with your subs is how much linear excursion they have (xmax) and how much total excursion they have before damage (xmech). Some Kickers that are made for ported enclosures have low xmax which is fine for ported and will work fine in IB too but output will be limited. In IB and sealed, the only thing that determines output is excursion and cone area. Ported reinforces the sound with the port so high excursion is not always needed.
Thanks for all the great info on IB setups, spent the past few hours going through some of your posts. I think I have a pretty good idea as to what to do for the install now, I currently don't have any woodworking tools however so that will be something I'll have to figure out. As far as sealing goes, the only thing I can imagine is using spray foam or silicone. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around how I would go about properly sealing the gaps between the MDF and the frame of the car with just sound deadener or something similar, a little more insight would be nice, don't think I'm thinking about it the right way.
The first and foremost reason I am considering IB is because I want that tighter bass. With the ported box I currently have, it's loud but also more boomy than I want, I never play it at full volume because it gets overwhelming. In the future I would like to get another sub so I can run a pair but the budget doesn't allow me buying another speaker AND amp at the moment so I'll have to wait a little for that. Also it would be nice to regain some trunk space going from the ported box to IB.
I had a feeling I would lose output going from ported to IB but since I already don't turn my sub up all the way it might just still be enough until I can get a second sub down the line. By the way would it be more beneficial to upgrade to a single 15 or get another 12 to have a pair, looking at the kicker spec sheet the 15 has OVER twice the displacement as the 12
which has me thinking a single 15 would give me more output than two 12s. I probably wouldn't have to get a new amp for just a single 15 but I would definitely need to if I decide on doing two 12s
06-14-2015, 11:44 AM
#64
Team Owner
Thread Starter
As much as I like promoting IB, you would probably be happy with what you have with a lower 30-32hz tuning. It will give that tighter bass you want and have more low end. You will lose a little output but it should be barely noticeable if at all. Ported can sound better than sealed and with lower distortion if done right. A lower tuning frequency is a start. You might be able to get away with just changing the port length temporarily just to see how you like it. Later on, build a larger box with the lower tuning frequency with the correct sized port to get back the lost output and with better sound quality.
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