Brainstorming Ideas for solving factory audio solution
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
From: NoVA
Brainstorming Ideas for solving factory audio solution
I've run into a problem and the only downside to owning my 08. The audio system is sub-par. I'm looking for a relative cheap solution. I'm already pumping retained earnings into another project I have so I want to keep this as cost effective, as possible. Should I run a 4-channel amp to get some juice to those mids/highs? Change out speakers? I mostly listen to progressive house / vocal trance, so thumping lows isnt a priority compared to crisp highs and mids.
Anyhow, I'm open to any ideas or current setup any of you guys currently have. Thanks!
Anyhow, I'm open to any ideas or current setup any of you guys currently have. Thanks!
Upgrade Components
If you upgrade your front speakers to components (separate mid and tweet) that will cost you around $150-200.
Center channel speaker $50-75
You can get 2-ways for the rear deck $60-100
You will not benefit by using the stock amp to power these speakers so you'll want to install an amp $250-400
Of course once you get all that done, you'll say you need more bass, so in goes a sub w/enclosure $300-500 and a mono amp $300
Throw in about 15% more for LOCs and an amp wiring kit and you're all set
If you're lucky, the whole thing will cost less than $1500 if you do the work.
Center channel speaker $50-75
You can get 2-ways for the rear deck $60-100
You will not benefit by using the stock amp to power these speakers so you'll want to install an amp $250-400
Of course once you get all that done, you'll say you need more bass, so in goes a sub w/enclosure $300-500 and a mono amp $300
Throw in about 15% more for LOCs and an amp wiring kit and you're all set
If you're lucky, the whole thing will cost less than $1500 if you do the work.
Senior Moderator
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 21,406
Likes: 2,185
From: Space Coast, FL
Cheap and easy solution is to get a new center speaker, new 1011T tweeters from infinity and some infinity 2 ohm speakers. These speakers can run off the factory amp and are a big improvement, though I must warn you that the highs can get harsh with this setup, so you may need to install a new cross-over or not install the tweeters, or turn down the treble.
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,563
Likes: 2
From: USA
lol dude i listen to techno as well as everything except polka. i changed out my system completely.....and when i tell u its worth it...its worth it. my highs scream to the point of no return...my bass is absolutely insane im hitting frequencies as low as 20hz....16 is touched with a sealed box. i ported the box into the cabin its got 3 10inch JLw6v2's all the interiors are loud speakers by a company in spain named beyma (pronounced bay-ma) obvious to some not all lol.... i have a pioneer avic z1 with a z3 hardrive the only diff is the navihas more points of interest in it other than that the amps are jl 1000 and jl 300 both slash series.
I started with a lil change then i said wtf is wrong with me....i need crisp quailty bass and highs....so i did the whole swap without slackin. lol
I started with a lil change then i said wtf is wrong with me....i need crisp quailty bass and highs....so i did the whole swap without slackin. lol
Suzuka Master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,564
Likes: 1,093
From: Sugar Land, TX
I changed out my entire audio system ('08 non-nav). I am glad I did. It sounds 1000 times better than what I was able to get with: just upgrading the speakers; then adding an amp (all of fth efactory head unit).
Then I sait WTF am I doing?.. so I ripped ou tthe head unit and upgraded that.. 5 channel + 2 sub outs on this Kenwood.. sweet!
Then I sait WTF am I doing?.. so I ripped ou tthe head unit and upgraded that.. 5 channel + 2 sub outs on this Kenwood.. sweet!
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,797
Likes: 945
From: Atlanta, GA
im a sound/music engineer/producer by night (been doing it for 20+ years).
I will say this: an easy method to getting more "perceivable" mid/high performance from the stock system is to simply lower the bass (and the sub) levels. What this allows you to do is turn the volume up higher before you drown out and/or overload the system with too many lows. the stock system speakers can handle higher volume levels in the mids/highs than it can in the lows before it starts to breakup. thus you end up with better high-mid performance, since the mids/highs are now louder.
this is a common and easy way to change the "perceived" response of any audio system. it's why you get tone controls on audio systems.
A simple way to tune your stock system is:
1. turn your sub and bass down completely. (values of -6)
2. turn up the volume to the point where you feel your mids/highs are where you want them to be....
3. now slowly turn up the bass and sub levels to get the right balance at the volume levels you are trying to achieve.
I listen to alot of electronic/techno/industrial/experimental music. low is just as important, but not as important as the mids and highs.
Also, set your center speakers to +6 (full volume, and your fader to +1. this shifts the overall perceived loudness to the front main speakers a bit, and helps remove some of the "boxiness" to the overall sound of the TL. when you're in a real production studio or mastering environment, you don't use 4 speakers. it's all from 2 main stereo speakers. So really in car's, 4 speakers tends to fuck up the sound and is what gives car sound a "boxy" sound to it. shifting the focus to the front a bit helps get rid of that and helps bring better overall definition, punchiness, and clarity to your music. bet folk or hard pumping detroit techno....
cheers.
I will say this: an easy method to getting more "perceivable" mid/high performance from the stock system is to simply lower the bass (and the sub) levels. What this allows you to do is turn the volume up higher before you drown out and/or overload the system with too many lows. the stock system speakers can handle higher volume levels in the mids/highs than it can in the lows before it starts to breakup. thus you end up with better high-mid performance, since the mids/highs are now louder.
this is a common and easy way to change the "perceived" response of any audio system. it's why you get tone controls on audio systems.
A simple way to tune your stock system is:
1. turn your sub and bass down completely. (values of -6)
2. turn up the volume to the point where you feel your mids/highs are where you want them to be....
3. now slowly turn up the bass and sub levels to get the right balance at the volume levels you are trying to achieve.
I listen to alot of electronic/techno/industrial/experimental music. low is just as important, but not as important as the mids and highs.
Also, set your center speakers to +6 (full volume, and your fader to +1. this shifts the overall perceived loudness to the front main speakers a bit, and helps remove some of the "boxiness" to the overall sound of the TL. when you're in a real production studio or mastering environment, you don't use 4 speakers. it's all from 2 main stereo speakers. So really in car's, 4 speakers tends to fuck up the sound and is what gives car sound a "boxy" sound to it. shifting the focus to the front a bit helps get rid of that and helps bring better overall definition, punchiness, and clarity to your music. bet folk or hard pumping detroit techno....
cheers.
Instructor
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
In the end it's your money & choice.
Trending Topics
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
From: NoVA
im a sound/music engineer/producer by night (been doing it for 20+ years).
I will say this: an easy method to getting more "perceivable" mid/high performance from the stock system is to simply lower the bass (and the sub) levels. What this allows you to do is turn the volume up higher before you drown out and/or overload the system with too many lows. the stock system speakers can handle higher volume levels in the mids/highs than it can in the lows before it starts to breakup. thus you end up with better high-mid performance, since the mids/highs are now louder.
this is a common and easy way to change the "perceived" response of any audio system. it's why you get tone controls on audio systems.
A simple way to tune your stock system is:
1. turn your sub and bass down completely. (values of -6)
2. turn up the volume to the point where you feel your mids/highs are where you want them to be....
3. now slowly turn up the bass and sub levels to get the right balance at the volume levels you are trying to achieve.
I listen to alot of electronic/techno/industrial/experimental music. low is just as important, but not as important as the mids and highs.
Also, set your center speakers to +6 (full volume, and your fader to +1. this shifts the overall perceived loudness to the front main speakers a bit, and helps remove some of the "boxiness" to the overall sound of the TL. when you're in a real production studio or mastering environment, you don't use 4 speakers. it's all from 2 main stereo speakers. So really in car's, 4 speakers tends to fuck up the sound and is what gives car sound a "boxy" sound to it. shifting the focus to the front a bit helps get rid of that and helps bring better overall definition, punchiness, and clarity to your music. bet folk or hard pumping detroit techno....
cheers.
I will say this: an easy method to getting more "perceivable" mid/high performance from the stock system is to simply lower the bass (and the sub) levels. What this allows you to do is turn the volume up higher before you drown out and/or overload the system with too many lows. the stock system speakers can handle higher volume levels in the mids/highs than it can in the lows before it starts to breakup. thus you end up with better high-mid performance, since the mids/highs are now louder.
this is a common and easy way to change the "perceived" response of any audio system. it's why you get tone controls on audio systems.
A simple way to tune your stock system is:
1. turn your sub and bass down completely. (values of -6)
2. turn up the volume to the point where you feel your mids/highs are where you want them to be....
3. now slowly turn up the bass and sub levels to get the right balance at the volume levels you are trying to achieve.
I listen to alot of electronic/techno/industrial/experimental music. low is just as important, but not as important as the mids and highs.
Also, set your center speakers to +6 (full volume, and your fader to +1. this shifts the overall perceived loudness to the front main speakers a bit, and helps remove some of the "boxiness" to the overall sound of the TL. when you're in a real production studio or mastering environment, you don't use 4 speakers. it's all from 2 main stereo speakers. So really in car's, 4 speakers tends to fuck up the sound and is what gives car sound a "boxy" sound to it. shifting the focus to the front a bit helps get rid of that and helps bring better overall definition, punchiness, and clarity to your music. bet folk or hard pumping detroit techno....
cheers.
Suzuka Master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,564
Likes: 1,093
From: Sugar Land, TX
my
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,797
Likes: 945
From: Atlanta, GA
looks have nothing to do with it.
over the last 30+ years, professional studio mixing all around the world have been done on some of the cheapest looking speakers ever. The Yamaha NS-10's. They look like something that should be sitting on a bookshelf, compared to most speakers you'd find in a home theatre setup. look them up in google for yourself if you don't believe me.
however, the NS-10's became the industry standard for pro-studio mixdown for decades, because of their flat and accurate response, meaning they were neutral and did not discolor the sound by adding unecessary extra bass/mid/highs. in other words, they reproduced exactly what was put into the music when it was being mixed, without adding additional frequencies.
again, audio quality doesn't always relate to better equipment, it is largely based on "perceived" frequency response and whether your system is coloring the sound or giving true flat response, along with properly tuning your system to give the best flat response as possible within the acoustics of your listening environment. Cars are very difficult to tune a system too, because there is soo much room for echo response, vibration, and frequency reflections.
the goal in any audio system is to get the flatest response possible, so that you hear the music the way it was originally mixed in the studio, not by discoloring it with tons of added frequencies that were not intended in the original mixdown.
cheers.
over the last 30+ years, professional studio mixing all around the world have been done on some of the cheapest looking speakers ever. The Yamaha NS-10's. They look like something that should be sitting on a bookshelf, compared to most speakers you'd find in a home theatre setup. look them up in google for yourself if you don't believe me.
however, the NS-10's became the industry standard for pro-studio mixdown for decades, because of their flat and accurate response, meaning they were neutral and did not discolor the sound by adding unecessary extra bass/mid/highs. in other words, they reproduced exactly what was put into the music when it was being mixed, without adding additional frequencies.
again, audio quality doesn't always relate to better equipment, it is largely based on "perceived" frequency response and whether your system is coloring the sound or giving true flat response, along with properly tuning your system to give the best flat response as possible within the acoustics of your listening environment. Cars are very difficult to tune a system too, because there is soo much room for echo response, vibration, and frequency reflections.
the goal in any audio system is to get the flatest response possible, so that you hear the music the way it was originally mixed in the studio, not by discoloring it with tons of added frequencies that were not intended in the original mixdown.
cheers.
Last edited by holografique; Aug 28, 2008 at 09:23 PM.
Suzuka Master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,564
Likes: 1,093
From: Sugar Land, TX
**Cough** 20 years as a sound professional at 34 years old? Ok, I'll buy that for a dollar.
Who's got that ocean front property in Arizona for sale? I'm buying!
Cheap speakers the best?? Long ago Yamaha speakers were never cheap.
Who's got that ocean front property in Arizona for sale? I'm buying!
Cheap speakers the best?? Long ago Yamaha speakers were never cheap.
Last edited by Stew4HD; Aug 28, 2008 at 09:59 PM.
Senior Moderator
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 21,406
Likes: 2,185
From: Space Coast, FL
the poster said that during 30+ years, not his personal experience of 30/20 years.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,797
Likes: 945
From: Atlanta, GA
2. I started doing sound design with my first synth when I was 14. and used to help my uncle (whos been studio engineer since i was 5) studio work when I was aroud 8-9 and started learning the art of sound engineering.
got any other cute little comments you'd like to add? :roll eyes:
Suzuka Master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,564
Likes: 1,093
From: Sugar Land, TX
1. I said "cheapest looking..." in response to you saying the stock speakers looked cheap. I never once mentioned anything about cost.
2. I started doing sound design with my first synth when I was 14. and used to help my uncle (whos been studio engineer since i was 5) studio work when I was aroud 8-9 and started learning the art of sound engineering.
got any other cute little comments you'd like to add? :roll eyes:
2. I started doing sound design with my first synth when I was 14. and used to help my uncle (whos been studio engineer since i was 5) studio work when I was aroud 8-9 and started learning the art of sound engineering.
got any other cute little comments you'd like to add? :roll eyes:
I have nothing further to say to you, the expert on speakers
Advanced
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
From: Novato/San Diego Area
I agree with stew. I will gladly pay a lot of money for quality sound and it will be worth it in the long run. The stock speakers are by no means good at all. I am going to blow all the speakers on purpose before I install my new ones. If you want sub par music quality, go ahead and stick with stuck
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
From: NoVA
Thanks for all the suggestions, guys. I think at this time though, I might hold off until next spring before doing anything to the stock system. I think I might just upgrade the speakers and install a few amps. Can that easily be wired to the NAV display? I am not planning on taking out the currentt NAV display nor get an upgraded head unit, if possible
Right now, I'm already pumping money into my track bike and unfortunately, that has taken precedence
but the first mod I always consider in a car is upgrading the audio. I listen to music in my car more than anywhere else!
Right now, I'm already pumping money into my track bike and unfortunately, that has taken precedence
but the first mod I always consider in a car is upgrading the audio. I listen to music in my car more than anywhere else!
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
From: NoVA
Suzuka Master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,564
Likes: 1,093
From: Sugar Land, TX
My buddie's MB with the Harmon Kardin system sounds much better than the stock TL... Oh well... I still like the car though I am tossing around the idea of moving up to an MB.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,797
Likes: 945
From: Atlanta, GA
cbrydr...
not sure how much the 06' audio system differs from the 08' model, but try these settings to help you get more out of your mids/highs before you're able to spend more money on some new speakers.
treble: +6
bass: +1
sub: +5
center: +6
fader: F1
btw....my original advice was just that, a method to help you get some more out of the stock system before you go plopping more money on new equipment focused around improving your mids/highs. there are hundreds of other options out there that are going to get you an overall better sounding system. and if overall loudness/volume is what your after, then yes, the TL stock system doesn't let you get really loud before you start to saturate the stock speakers. I never go above 28-30 on volume, but that is loud enough for me.
good luck.
not sure how much the 06' audio system differs from the 08' model, but try these settings to help you get more out of your mids/highs before you're able to spend more money on some new speakers.
treble: +6
bass: +1
sub: +5
center: +6
fader: F1
btw....my original advice was just that, a method to help you get some more out of the stock system before you go plopping more money on new equipment focused around improving your mids/highs. there are hundreds of other options out there that are going to get you an overall better sounding system. and if overall loudness/volume is what your after, then yes, the TL stock system doesn't let you get really loud before you start to saturate the stock speakers. I never go above 28-30 on volume, but that is loud enough for me.
good luck.
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
From: NoVA
cbrydr...
not sure how much the 06' audio system differs from the 08' model, but try these settings to help you get more out of your mids/highs before you're able to spend more money on some new speakers.
treble: +6
bass: +1
sub: +5
center: +6
fader: F1
btw....my original advice was just that, a method to help you get some more out of the stock system before you go plopping more money on new equipment focused around improving your mids/highs. there are hundreds of other options out there that are going to get you an overall better sounding system. and if overall loudness/volume is what your after, then yes, the TL stock system doesn't let you get really loud before you start to saturate the stock speakers. I never go above 28-30 on volume, but that is loud enough for me.
good luck.
not sure how much the 06' audio system differs from the 08' model, but try these settings to help you get more out of your mids/highs before you're able to spend more money on some new speakers.
treble: +6
bass: +1
sub: +5
center: +6
fader: F1
btw....my original advice was just that, a method to help you get some more out of the stock system before you go plopping more money on new equipment focused around improving your mids/highs. there are hundreds of other options out there that are going to get you an overall better sounding system. and if overall loudness/volume is what your after, then yes, the TL stock system doesn't let you get really loud before you start to saturate the stock speakers. I never go above 28-30 on volume, but that is loud enough for me.
good luck.
10th Gear
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
From: CT
good previous advice but hahaha...
looks have nothing to do with it.
over the last 30+ years, professional studio mixing all around the world have been done on some of the cheapest looking speakers ever. The Yamaha NS-10's. They look like something that should be sitting on a bookshelf, compared to most speakers you'd find in a home theatre setup. look them up in google for yourself if you don't believe me.
however, the NS-10's became the industry standard for pro-studio mixdown for decades, because of their flat and accurate response, meaning they were neutral and did not discolor the sound by adding unecessary extra bass/mid/highs. in other words, they reproduced exactly what was put into the music when it was being mixed, without adding additional frequencies.
again, audio quality doesn't always relate to better equipment, it is largely based on "perceived" frequency response and whether your system is coloring the sound or giving true flat response, along with properly tuning your system to give the best flat response as possible within the acoustics of your listening environment. Cars are very difficult to tune a system too, because there is soo much room for echo response, vibration, and frequency reflections.
the goal in any audio system is to get the flatest response possible, so that you hear the music the way it was originally mixed in the studio, not by discoloring it with tons of added frequencies that were not intended in the original mixdown.
cheers.
over the last 30+ years, professional studio mixing all around the world have been done on some of the cheapest looking speakers ever. The Yamaha NS-10's. They look like something that should be sitting on a bookshelf, compared to most speakers you'd find in a home theatre setup. look them up in google for yourself if you don't believe me.
however, the NS-10's became the industry standard for pro-studio mixdown for decades, because of their flat and accurate response, meaning they were neutral and did not discolor the sound by adding unecessary extra bass/mid/highs. in other words, they reproduced exactly what was put into the music when it was being mixed, without adding additional frequencies.
again, audio quality doesn't always relate to better equipment, it is largely based on "perceived" frequency response and whether your system is coloring the sound or giving true flat response, along with properly tuning your system to give the best flat response as possible within the acoustics of your listening environment. Cars are very difficult to tune a system too, because there is soo much room for echo response, vibration, and frequency reflections.
the goal in any audio system is to get the flatest response possible, so that you hear the music the way it was originally mixed in the studio, not by discoloring it with tons of added frequencies that were not intended in the original mixdown.
cheers.
And the reason they were put in every studio is because at their inception, yamaha was trying to boost them so much that they practically gave them to every studio on the planet. Personally I use them as a reference monitor because they sound closer to a crap consumer speaker than they do to a "flat studio monitor" so i know how my mix might translate on other systems. If you want flat try listening through a pair of Ausperger's or some westlake mains.
But seeing that this isn't a pro audio forum i guess i'll stop talkin nonsense... I do agree with how you should tune your system though, as flat as possible. Elliot Scheiner designed this system- so as long as you aren't going for the "you can hear me coming down the street from a mile away" sound, it sounds great and I must say while the sub could be a little tighter, I am impressed with the overall sound of the LFE channel in this car.
Last edited by rcknrollin; Aug 29, 2008 at 01:17 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,222
Likes: 5
From: IE Baby
Yea, kinda sad that for all the hard work that engineers put into making great music most consumers listen to it through lousy speakers, bad acoustic environments and subpar audio equipment. Most consumers wouldn't know flat response if it bet them on the leg. Most consumers don't even want flat. That's why there is a market for big subs and large amps.
I wish my perception of good audio was adjusting the tone controls. It would have saved me a ton of money and time.
I wish my perception of good audio was adjusting the tone controls. It would have saved me a ton of money and time.
all work and no play
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,916
Likes: 134
From: Wakefield, Ma
I agree with stew. I will gladly pay a lot of money for quality sound and it will be worth it in the long run. The stock speakers are by no means good at all. I am going to blow all the speakers on purpose before I install my new ones. If you want sub par music quality, go ahead and stick with stuck
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,172
Likes: 1,818
From: Bakersfield
You guys might be surprised at how hard you can push the stock speakers with a good amp and a reasonable crossover point. My rears are stock, I added a JL 6 channel amp pushing well over 3 times the stock power. I have it crossed over at 110hz for the rear and the stock speakers flat out hurt my ears. I tuned it at the max volume I could listen and brought the crossover down until they clipped and then backed off some. I've been waiting for them to blow for 5 months now so I can put the Infinities in the back and Focals up front but they won't blow.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,797
Likes: 945
From: Atlanta, GA
You guys might be surprised at how hard you can push the stock speakers with a good amp and a reasonable crossover point. My rears are stock, I added a JL 6 channel amp pushing well over 3 times the stock power. I have it crossed over at 110hz for the rear and the stock speakers flat out hurt my ears. I tuned it at the max volume I could listen and brought the crossover down until they clipped and then backed off some. I've been waiting for them to blow for 5 months now so I can put the Infinities in the back and Focals up front but they won't blow.
i've been listening to alot of indie pop-rock / folk / acoustic music lately (iron&wine, american analog set, AIR, etc.) and im really impressed at the definition and clarity in the mids/highs out of the stock system.
You guys might be surprised at how hard you can push the stock speakers with a good amp and a reasonable crossover point. My rears are stock, I added a JL 6 channel amp pushing well over 3 times the stock power. I have it crossed over at 110hz for the rear and the stock speakers flat out hurt my ears. I tuned it at the max volume I could listen and brought the crossover down until they clipped and then backed off some. I've been waiting for them to blow for 5 months now so I can put the Infinities in the back and Focals up front but they won't blow.
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,563
Likes: 2
From: USA
i dunno i had the stocks running at high wattage but they still didnt make me happy.....i needed quality and clarity at extreme levels.....im in classes now in toronto learning how to build systems and the details behind the music.....theres more to it than bringing the volume down and stabilizing noise til ur comfortable. waaaaayyyy more.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
cycdaniel
1G TSX Performance Parts & Modifications
8
Dec 17, 2019 10:58 AM
siularbar
1/2G MDX (2001-2013)
2
Sep 11, 2015 10:40 AM
