SpiderX1016

For the stock rear speakers, what to do with them? Hook it up to the MS8 or leave it on the stock amp?

I think I'm going to leave the stock center connected to the stock amp and disabled on the HU. Unless told otherwise.

I hate cars

Everything has to go through the MS8. It has an automatic time delay of 8ms on everything. If you bypass any speakers you will have an echo and it will mess up the stage.

The MS8 has outputs for 1,2,and 3 way fronts, center, sides, subs, and rears.

The center is a major player, it has to be run through the MS8 or shut off completely. Turning the Logic 7 feature off turns the center off through the MS8 and you would have to turn it off through the HU also if you don't want to run it through the MS8.

If you want the navi voice functional you'll have to run the center from the pre-amp to the MS8 so you'll have L+R+C going into it. As long as you don't run the rear inputs, you'll have a fully functional bluetooth that will sound better than you ever imagined lol.

SpiderX1016

Ok, I won't be lazy and not hook all speakers up lol. I don't have Navi so that won't be a problem.

What do you have for center and rear fill? Do you recommend upgrading the center?

I hate cars

Definitely upgrade the center, this is probably the most important speaker when using the MS8. I have the Massive Audio Sk-6 set which I only used the one for the center. I'll give you a good price if you want the other brand new one. They're 6.5" and only 1.66" deep so they fit in the center with no modifications. The bigger the better, ideally you want a center that's capable of keeping up with your midbasses in the doors. If you cross the midbasses at 80hz, it's best to cross the center at 80hz but it has to be capable of playing that low or it won't sound right.

Stock is fine for rear fill. You don't want tweeters back there and most of the time there's little information coming from those speakers. I would try it out with the stock speakers first and upgrade if you think you need it.

If you're running a 2-way, you're in luck. 4 channels for the fronts, a center, 2 rears and a sub. You can be fully active with no passives required. Part of the reason I don't run the rears is with the 3-way fronts I would be out of channels. I would have to run the tweeter and midrange on the passives to gain enough channels.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Why are you using the center channel for music??

I hate cars

The MS8 uses the center heavily for Logic 7. The center is not the summed left and right channels but anything that's not the same between left and right. It pulls the stage even more forward and stabilizes it. On a live recording you can tell where the guitar is, the drums, the singer, etc. It adds detail and depth to the music and it just sounds more real. It's very good without the center with a wide stage up on the hood but it's even better with the center. Most people say the center is the most important speaker in the system when using the MS8. I've had several people tell me that my car sounds like you're at a live concert.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Hm that's weird. I know the center is very important in multi-channel setups but I just assumed you were just running your 3-ways and subs. No rears or center.

I hate cars

I don't really like most setups that use a center but this one is awesome. You really hear little details in the music. Vocals seem more up front. You don't miss the rears at all with the stage this provides. I'm going to eventually upgrade to a Dynaudio 162GT and 102 tweeter for the center but the Massive is working pretty good for now. I would love to do the Esotar 430 mid like I'm getting ready to buy for the kicks but it only plays down to 250hz. The great thing about the Dyns is they don't get harsh at high volumes. The Massive tweeter gets a little harsh when I crank on it, probably has something to do with the passive even though it's in the -3db position. The MS8 tames it very well during setup but something changes when you turn it up. I wish I wasn't using all 8 channels or I would run the center as a 2-way and ditch the passive.

SpiderX1016

I think I will upgrade the center if I decide to go active and a nice 3/4 channel amp for the tweeters + center.

Picked up the MS8 and Look what I found from my dad's HT setup from the 90s.

I hate cars

You're considering not going active??? You won't get half of the MS8's benefits without going active.

At a minimum run the tweeters and center off of the MS8's internal amp and the midbass and subs off of your existing amps. The MS8's internal amps will be enough for the tweeters and center.

SpiderX1016

Eventually but not for a while. I need to start saving money.

I hate cars

What's stopping you now? You have a 4 channel amp, right? The MS8 will power the tweeters and center. Use the amp for the doors and sub if you have to. You should be able to go active for no additional cost.

SpiderX1016

Does the MS8 have enough power for the tweeters is what I'm thinking about.

geekybiker

18w @ 4ohm. Tweeters are usually more efficient, you need about -3db per octave higher you go, and you only have a 4.80 amp IIRC. Worst case scenario is you have wasted some time. Likely you'll be just fine.

I hate cars

I ran my tweeters off of it briefly and my center for a couple months. It was plenty. During setup, it will calibrate the system to the weakest speaker so if the overall system volume is too low, that's probably the issue. If not, you're good to go.

SpiderX1016

I'll try it out. I'm curious to see how much power do the tweeters get right now.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

From stock amp? 40watts...and a dirty 40 at that! So let me get this, you have to wire up the center and rears on the MS8 or it wont work?? That sucks. He could run the active with the 4 channels off the MB Quart and run the rear/center on the MS8 also if that would free up space for inputs (..if that's the case). Then just run the sub amp/subs seperate from MS8. I guess I don't see why you aren't able to go active with the MS8 when you have 4 channels....

I hate cars

It doesn't require a center or rears to work. If you're running a standard front plus sub setup as I did for a while, you turn Logic 7 off. You still get a very good high, centered stage and bass up front, auto eq and TA, and all of the other features.

However, every speaker that you have playing has to go through the MS8. You wouldn't want to run the fronts through the MS8 and the rears straight off the HU signal.

He was talking about saving up more money to go active so I assumed he didn't have enough amp channels, maybe running his passives on 2 channels and the other 2 bridged for the sub. If you have a 4 channel you run the outputs of the MS8 through the amp, that takes care of your midbass and tweeters. But you must have an amp for the sub too since that needs to go through the MS8. Due to the assumed lack of amp channels I suggested running the tweeters and center off of the MS8's internal amp to free up the 4 channel for the more demanding speakers.

There are 8 high level and 8 low level outputs. You can run any channel straight off of the MS8's built in amp and you can mix and match with some using low level outputs into and amp and some high level outputs straight to the speaker. 18w is plenty for a tweeter. It will get louder than the stock setup off of that. You could do the rears plus center plus front tweeters off of the MS8 and the rest off of the 4 channel if you choose to.

On my 3-way set, I ran it with passives for a while when 4 of the 6 channels of the JL amp went out. You can run passives with it. For my 3-way you select 2-way during setup and run the mid and tweeter off the passives which frees up 2 channels. During the TA sweeps you cover up the tweeters since TA on the mid is more important and you uncover the tweeters during the EQ sweeps. The MS8 still applies equalization to both the mid and tweeter but you can't select the crossover point or slope since it's already done with the passives.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

I just assumed he had the equipment in his sig. 4 channel amp and AP amp for subs. OP...whatcha got??

I hate cars

That's what I thought until he mentioned having to save up to go active. I thought his sig might have been his wish list. If he's got a 4 channel plus sub amp, he's set to go fully active.

I'm not sure I would add the center to the mix with the stock center. The lower you can high pass the center, the better it will sound. It wouldn't hurt to try it both ways even with the stock center but I wouldn't count on a huge improvement to the sound. I would probably still help the staging somewhat. I did mine in increments starting with an Infinity 3.5" that had been in there for many years to a cheap Type S 5.25" to the current Massive 6.5" component set.

SpiderX1016

That is my setup (minus the MS8 which isn't installed yet) but I have the 4 channel bridged to 2 channels to the RK6 so yes, I'm short a few channels.

I hate cars

That's perfect for your new setup. Ditch the bridging and run the 4 channels to the mids and tweeters. Use the MS8's amp if you choose to try the center and rears.

You can run the MS8 to the passives too if you choose to. You'll just cover the tweeters during the time alignment stage and uncover during the eq stage. The biggest disadvantage is the MS8 can't level match the tweeters independently of the mids and you can't choose your crossover point or slope.

SpiderX1016

The guy I bought the MS8 gave me something to think about. Ditch the MB quart and get a Zuki Eleets 4 channel.

I'm not sure 80 watts to these mids will cut it but I could try it, to get a sense of what Active is like.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

You can go active...but I forgot you only had the 4.80. I would ditch that amp and pick up the MB Q4.150 or something a little more powerful. 80rms just wont cut it to the RK6 mids. You'll definitely want to go active with this component set anyways. That's the whole reason you got a processor in the first place isn't it

SpiderX1016

Any good reads on going Active? I honestly don't know squat about it.

geekybiker

I'd give it a shot before tossing anything. And don't toss it if you decide its not enough. A second onyx 4.80 will give you 2x240w for your mids, 2x80w for your tweets and 1x240w for a sub. I might end up doing something similar. Or a 4.150 in addition would give you 2x80 for tweets, 2x 150 for mids, 1x450 for a sub, and 2x80 for rears. (or a center and an extra channel)

SpiderX1016

Routed all the wires to the trunk today. Almost ready to connect but I'll finish it up tomorrow.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Nice! It takes awhile lol

SpiderX1016

Yeah but I'm just being lazy lol. So many wires to crimp/solder.
I could of had it done and ready to be calibrated/tuned tomorrow but like I said, laziness.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

SOOO many lol

SpiderX1016

IHC, does it matter which inputs/outputs you use? Like do I have to put the tweeters on output 1/2 or can I put it on any and be able to select it on the MS8?

I hate cars

The sub input should be on channels 7-8. Otherwise it doesn't matter. When you do the setup, you assign each channel a speaker.

For example mine is setup like this:
Ch-1 FL Hi
Ch-2 FR Hi
Ch-3 FL Mid
Ch-4 FR Mid
Ch-5 FL Lo
Ch-6 FR Lo
Ch-7 Center
Ch-8 Sub

You'll set yours up as a 2-way so you'll only have a FL and FR Hi and a FL and FR Lo. Hi being the tweeter and Lo being the midbass.

If you're pulling the pre-amp signal you only need to run two input wires, the front left and front right into channels 1 and 2 of the MS8's inputs. Doesn't matter which channel is which, it figures it out. You could technically run these inputs to any channel from 1-6.

If you're running pre-amp, you'll go into the RCA inputs, if you run post amp, you'll go into the hi level harness supplied with the MS8.

If you're running a sealed sub, set the subsonic at 20hz/6db. If you're running a pair of subs, it's recommended to still run both subs off of one channel so during setup, select 1 sub, not 2 subs.

SpiderX1016

I will be using the preamp inputs. So would I have to solder RCAs on the end? Or do I just use the harness?

I hate cars

I'm not sure if you can go low level into the harness. I think I remember reading somewhere that you can. Worst case scenario the signal won't be strong enough and you'll know you have to solder RCAs on. During setup with the supplied CD playing, it will tell you if the level is ok or not.

There's the huge MS8 thread, several thousand posts on DIYMA. You can print out the huge manual online or you can PM Andy Wehmeyer over on DIYMA who is one of the engineers for the MS8. Very smart guy with very detailed answers.

SpiderX1016

Do any of you use caps on your tweeters?

I will be running the tweeters off the MS8 amp.

I hate cars

I don't but I will be installing soon. A 10uF will work as Andy of Harmon himself told me. All it would take is one rca or one speaker wire or one wrong setting during the setup and you have a fried tweeter. You could easily accidentally set your tweeter up with the sub input by accident. I really need to do this soon.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

....honestly....I thought about trying that today with these RK6 tweeters lol. I got down to 2kHz but I chickened out lol

SpiderX1016

I think I'll read up on the caps and pick some up tomorrow at the shack along with some RCA plugs.

SpiderX1016

Woohoo, I'm so happy right now and it's not because my setup is Active .

So I hooked it up and played around for 10 minutes. I get the MS8 set up and I go to the amps to change some settings. Whoops, the ground comes off and hits the remote wire. I was so scared that my equipment would be fried. I run to the Ignition to shut it off.

Time to investigate the damage. I can already smell something burnt. So I pull out the Add-A-Circuit and look at the fuse. Ok, it's blown. I throw in another fuse and my amps and MS8 work again but what's next confused me.
My radio stopped working, just the Anti-Theft kept blinking. So I try everything, pull the backup fuse, disconnect battery, check the radio fuses. Nothing. I was pissed at this point. So I go home and take a shower.

Now that I'm relaxed, I go to the car and move it so I can work on it tomorrow. Hmm, the shifter won't move out of park. So I try out the cigarette lighter. Nope, I think I'm on to something.
What was it? I take a look at where I put the Add-A-Circuit back in. It was on #31 when it's supposed to be on #32.

Moral of the Story? When you can't think straight, Walk away and take a breather. Oh and fuses are a life saver.
More on the MS8 tomorrow.

SpiderX1016

That problem is gone. I love this little box. I haven't set the gains on the mids and subs yet but I love it.

From the 30 minutes of playing time, The highs are much more detailed. I can clearly hear background vocals now. All the vocals are coming from the middle of the windshield. It was kind of odd at first but I like it.

It doesn't get anywhere near as loud as it used to though. I have to be at 35 on the HU and -15 on the MS8 to get a decent volume.