eggyhustles

Depends what u classify as sq.

My definition of it is clean, dynamic, and low distortion with great imaging and depth. I don't listen to soft rock nor listen to my setup at 80db, so my definition of it is a lot different from those on over on diyma.

When i first got the rk6, i put them in my moms accord coupe. The tweet was VERY loud(they were on axis in the apillar). Probably one of the loudest tweets i've ever heard straight out the box. They were not harsh or shrill, though. Midbass was phenomenal, but over-exaggerated. This was straight out the box, though with no tuning or eq. Out of the box with little tuning and eq, they sounded a lot better than the hertz hsk's they replaced. I took the amp out(jl hd 600/4) and decided to run them active. I used a sundown 125.2 on the tweets and a sundown 100.4 bridged(340ish x 2) on the mids. With little eq and tuning, the tweets were still stupid loud. I think the issue with this set is..the tweet is super efficient..and the mid isnt. The mid is very power hungry..just look at the motor on it. I don't remember what the crossover points are, but i had to cut a lot of top end out. The mid itself didn't need much tuning. Point is, no speaker or set is ever perfect out the box. You'll always either boost or cut something to get them the way you want them to sound. I personally rather have an overbuilt driver and cut here and there via eq then to have a wimpy driver that'll begin to choke at 100hz.

For a true sq head like most on diyma, this isn't really a set for them. If u listen to soft music at very low volumes, this is not the set for you. If u listen to hard rock and want to crank it up from time to time, this is the set for you. These are meant to get loud first and sound good second. If i had to classify the sound, they sound raw and live like. Sorta like you're at a concert. They're fun speakers. That's really how i think music should be listened to.

I hate cars

What's fun is chasing a speaker that does it all very well. I've wanted to try a carbon weave and/or aluminum cone for a while now, something that acts as a true piston. When I was shopping for speakers, I almost got the Gothia by DLS. I've heard the carbon cones are easy to get right as long as you don't try and low pass them too high.

My Dyn set right out of the box was perfect, no eq needed. They were just amazing, better than I expected. Never had that before, not even close. The IDs needed some boost in the midrange. The Infinities needed more cut than I had available and the JLs needed some cut up high and boost around 80hz. I still have to recommend this set to anyone who wants a set of speakers that have a ton of power handling, amazing SQ at any level, and no eq needed on the supplied crossovers. Just neutral and natural. Can't wait to see what it sounds like when I swap the MD142 mid with the Esotar 430 mid.

eggyhustles

You didn't boost or cut anything at all?

I hate cars

Not on the passives. I ran everything at zero but the option was there to boost or cut the mid and tweeter by 3db either way. I did try the mid at the +3db position for a bit and it was too much on hard rock at high volumes. The 0 position was more comfortable for every type of music. Everything was so smooth and detailed. I was feeling so guilty for spending that kind of money and I figured there was no way they could sound good enough to justify the $1,400 retail price but there really is that much of a difference from the $200 sets. It was so worth it that I'm buying a $1,400 set of midranges and previously I've always thought people were crazy for spending more than $200 on a set of comps. If there's anything I've learned is to spend 90% of your budget on the comps and get an amp with lots of headroom and low noise floor but not necessarily an expensive one. I couldn't tell a difference between the Interfire and MacIntosh in SQ.

SpiderX1016

I'll wait a week or two before I start throwing resistors and stuff at it but man, I like playing my music loud but my ears can't take the tweeters. I cringe every time a high note is playing or I know one is coming lol


Yeah, they're too loud compared to the mids. I guess harsh wasn't the correct word.

I hate cars

I wouldn't wait. Usually the changes you think you hear are just getting sort of used to it, especially with the tweeters. I think Dyn recommends something crazy like 100hrs of break-in but tweeters change the least if at all. There's thread after thread on the internet of these tweeters being too loud, I would say there's no chance of them getting even remotely close to being acceptable with time along. Or go active and turn the tweeters down. Can you face them differently, as far off axis as possible.

SpiderX1016

I might need to go with a processor or do something about the setup I have. I was listening to a song I know by heart and I was like hmm, their is supposed to be music playing but it was completely gone. I'm suspecting it's the LOC.

You recommend the 2ohm resistors? I'll probably get some.


Oh, I thought you were already Active with the RK6. Let me know how it goes, I might be in the same boat as you are.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Eggy- Hm, you the rk6's sounded better than the HERTZ HSK's? Those seem TL be loved over there at DIYMA lol. I found the Hertz tweets to be a bit bright but I only listened to the ESK's. I'm glad to know that they can have potential as you've heard more setups than I have. Where did you find you liked them HP'd at? The rk6 manual says the x-over is set at 2.5k & 5k...not sure why there are 2 but maybe I'll call them and ask. I'm going to finish up tomorrow and start tuning in the mids/tweets. I'll wait for subs until box gets here...hopefully this week!

There was one time I was messing with my amp and playing with settings awhile ago and my mids came alive. I was sitting in the backseat playing with the amp through the ski-pass and I remember turning the car back on and the mids sounded like they were hitting 3x as hard. Started doing something else and couldn't get them to sound like that again. Weird. Not sure if that was bridged and the whole time I had them running at roughly 100 a piece instead of 200?? Who knows. I just want that punch in rock songs. That tight, snappy punch. You seem to think these are capable so hopefully I can dial them in


Spider- not active yet. I got the mb amp to run active but decided to pick up a processor to remove the noise since I didn't have an amp that accepts balanced. Btw..what amp do you have again?

SpiderX1016

MB Quart ONX4.80. I have hissing at all times but I was expecting to have that anyway.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Ah ok. So you can't run active and don't have enough power to really. I'd pick up an Audiocontrol Matrix for like $75 on DIYMA and call it good. Unless you want to go more in depth with your setup and do processing.

xxx_busa

Coming along Nicely

geekybiker

Power is fine. Don't know about the crossover network. I have a 4.80 and its plenty loud. You're talking 3db between the q4.80 and q4.150. However rk6 are kind of power hogs from what I hear.

You can also get a ground loop isolator for $10 shipped on amazon. It made my ticking and alt whine mostly go away. Very faint after that. Also you could pick up a 3sixty.1 used for about $100. It'll get rid of the noise and give you some tuning options in addition to what you get from the matrix.

jda123

Put the mid on one pair of channels with the crossover. Put the tweeters on the other set of channels without the crossover and HP it where the crossover used to HP it (write/call massive and ask if you have to). Gain up the mid to where the amp just begins to distort - this is your max. Turn the gain way down on the tweeter and then dial it back up to match the mid. If you can handle the sound this way, then you can work with it. Keep in mind, if you do this, that the mid might (will) be underpowered, so pay attention to the dynamic of the mid at more volume as compared to less.

I helped a neighbor install the RK6. The 4.80 is not enough amp to power the mids in an active setup IMO. We used an older 800a4 and the 125 watts was barely enough.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, 80rms isn't anything for the RK6 mid. It's a hefty speaker to get moving!


So Massive says they tweeter in the RK6 can reach down to 1.4Khzn . I swear there's a few times I was listening to music and this tweeter was distorting or sounding like it was b/c it playing very low. Pretty crazy. I'm trying to get ahold of a graph from Massive right now for the tweets and mids

Tweeter Specs:
http://www.massiveaudio.com/store/pr...cat=257&page=1

geekybiker

So I don't get why you guys are saying active needs more power than passive. You're running less speakers off the same RMS input. You're getting rid of a power sapping passive crossover. Also bi-amping (which active is) can produce up to double undistorted output of an amp running a full range signal. All signs seem to point to active needing less amp than passive.

geekybiker

Oh and if 8o really isn't enough, bridge it for the mids (240w) run the tweets on a second 4.80 on 80w and use the other two channels for the sub.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

You kinda answered yourself in your second post. This amp only offers 80x4 and while 80 per tweeter is plenty....80 per mid is not. When running this amp for components in passive form, you would have to run it bridged as running the components on 2 channels would be even worse than running them active on 4 channels. When this amp is bridged, it gives enough power to each side even with the x-over sucking up some of the power.


80x4 (active): Enough for tweeters, NOT for mids
80x2 (passive): Not enough for anything and you'd be stupid to buy this amp and run components off 2 channels lol
320x2 (passive): Plenty for each side and best option by far

geekybiker

Not really.
80w x4 (active) is probably more than it sounds like for all the reasons I stated above. Check out this article on bi-amping http://sound.westhost.com/bi-amp.htm You're doing it when going active. While you're not actually going to make more RMS power, chances are you can set your gains higher.

While I can't really speak to the specifics of the rk6, I can't see anything that would suggest that going active requires more power. It requires more channels, but that's not quite the same thing.

eggyhustles

Those mids would laugh at 80 watts...bridge the amp, dude.

I hate cars

Agreed. Give it all the power you've got and use the volume knob to adjust.

SpiderX1016

I think I'm getting used to the tweeters or they're calming down.

Either way I'm going to pick up some 2ohm and 4ohm resistors and experiment a little.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

No way they have calmed that quickly for one. And two, they wont calm that much. So yes..you're getting used to the tweeters lol. Good news, but it won't help I'm afraid to say. They will always be loud. Do you find them harsh or shrill? Or is it the loudness that makes you cringe? If it's loudness, you might be able to tame them.

SpiderX1016

What do you guys think of the MS8? I saw one for sale for $450 shipped and I offered him $400 cash picked up.

I figure I can make the investment now and use the MS8 throughout a couple installs.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

MS8 is a great unit. There has been a lot of problems popping up with them recently on DIYMA, but could just be user error. You never hear about good reviews so..


Also Not sure of the differences from the 3sixty.2 but it's about twice as much as the 3sixty.2...if it's worth it to you.

SpiderX1016

Well, I like the fact that you can set it and forget it.

I haven't seen any 3sixty.2's going for that cheap. Then again, I wasn't looking hard enough.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

The 3sixty.2 and MS8 are both processors. You can set it and forget it no doubt...but you won't want to lol. It's fun to play with everything until you get the sound just like you like it. Amazing how you can manipulate all your speakers, time delay them, change x-overs and slopes, etc etc. I picked up my 3sixty.2 w/ a palm pilot (BNIB) for $200 shipped on DIYMA. Geeky just picked one up for $200 also. Just make a "WTB: 3sixty.2" thread in classifieds and you'll get some responses. Also search for 3sixty.2 as threads that are a month old or so might be a few pages back but they still might have it, AND you could get it for cheaper

I hate cars

The MS8 is great but there are a couple drawbacks which I'll start with. One is that you have to know a little about tuning and level matching to get the most out of it. I knew nothing and went through a few months struggling with it. This is stuff you'll have to know for any processor but the MS8 was marketed as a plug and play with no knowledge required which is close but not quite true.

You can't save your favorite auto tune, there's just not enough memory. So repeatability comes into question. I had issues with big differences between tunes, one time I would get a great tune, the next time terrible and I hated the inconsistency. I was doing two things wrong, I didn't have my speakers level matched which was causing some distortion because the MS8 was running out of boost and I had my midrange playing too low for that particular driver and the MS8 again was running out of correction headroom to make it sound right.

Once I got those two issues sorted out, it was amazing. The auto tunes are consistent and it's very, very clean. I did things the wrong way, if you start out with factory crossover settings and go from there you will probably never have the issues I had. I immediately jumped into trying to run the mid as low as possible because that's what everyone else was doing.

You can save your favorite personal tunes which include eq settings, level settings, etc, just not the auto tune settings.

The MS8 takes into account real world in car eq. You have two mics that go into your ears and it plays a series of tones. These are used to determine time alignment between each speaker individually, and eq based in real time, not on the electrical signal. So instead of getting a flat electrical signal, you get a flat signal after it's done reflecting off of windshields, dashboards, and absorbed by other materials. I think it has something like 400 different filters it can apply all together or just a few.

Most people that have used it say it gets 95% as good as having a pro tune the car in what would take 6 months of tweaking in less than 5 minutes. You can do a tune for each seat and switch between driver, passenger, rear, or a combined best setting for all positions.

It does a great job of a fanthom center image in regular stereo mode. Bass is always up front, even with the subs low passed at 120hz.

It offers Logic 7 which is a great experience. I use only the 3-way fronts with a 2-way center. This really stabilizes the center image and you hear details in music that you never heard before. It's best to have a center the same size and power as your midbass in the doors. I run Massive Audio's SK-6 component set in the center. It's a 6.5" and 1" that fit with no modification. The 6.5 is only 1.6" deep so you pull the clock display out, slide the center in, seal it up and you now have a large center that can keep up with the doors. I have the other Sk-6 in the set, still in the box and never taken out if you decide to go this route.

The true Logic 7 with center and rears is really neat. The rears only play the out of phase info. It's not "rear fill" in the traditional sense, it just adds to the awesome front stage.

Once you get the levels roughly matched, it does the rest, perfectly matching levels. When it's done, it sounds like the subs and midbass are up on the dash and even though I knew it was set up right, I was scared because it sounded like I had it wired wrong and had the tweeters playing midrange or midbass. The amount of eq it can apply to fine tune your particular speakers in your car with your amps is enormous.

It does try to give a flat response which can sound a little boring but you have an eq with +10db and -10db boost and cut to adjust to your liking. It automatically gives you a 9db boost on the subs which is just about perfect for me. I don't boost the eq or sub level at all.

In the end, I'm not aware of another product that takes into account in-car response. I know there have been several cars winning SQ comps with this processor.

If you get it for a good price, you can sell it with little loss since they're still in high demand if you don't like it.

SpiderX1016

Thanks for the info. I have a lot to learn.
I will be picking up the MS8 for $425 tomorrow.

How is yours hooked up? After the stock amp?

I hate cars

Originally it was after the stock amp which works ok but it sounds better hooked up with the preamp signal. It only requires the FR and FL inputs preamp.

I'll be glad to help you through the setup procedure when it arrives.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Yup, take the pre-amp signal

SpiderX1016

Alright Thanks. Just the LF and RF? No subwoofer input?

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

The unit will take the FR/FL signal and duplicated it for the Fronts, Rears, Sub on the unit.

Fronts- Tweeters
Rears- Mids
Sub- Sub

It will take a very flat signal and it'll be up to you to pick x-over points. This will be nice b/c we'll be able to feed off each other and see what sounds good for these RK6's active.



Here's what you'll need. And I suggest going to Home Depot or Lowes and getting "thermostat wire". It makes it MUCH easier to run than 4 separate wires. I bought the 7-conductor wire (so 7 22awg wires inside of one tube).

LF (+): Green
LF (-): Blue
RF (+): Black
RF (-): Grey

I hate cars

That's right, all it needs is a left and right full range signal. Once you install the MS8, all of the left, right, front and rear adjustments are done through the MS8 along with sub level and all of that stuff. You never touch the HU adjustments again.

There's a CD that comes with it that assists in the setup. It's pink noise and the MS8 uses it to get the levels right. It will tell you where to set the volume of the HU at to get the proper signal strength. Mine was around 37. It's pretty neat because it will tell you when you have a dirty signal which I could not get pre-amp, only when it was run post amp and past 35.

The sub level on the MS8 adjusts the sub but it also adjusts the midbass to blend as you turn the sub up and down and adjusts frequencies around the crossover point. It actually can change the crossover point slightly as you adjust the levels so everything blends nicely.

I hate cars

I've got some CAT-6, about 500' of it. I can send 30' if you want.

geekybiker

Take IHC up on his offer. Cat6 is more suited to what we need than thermostat wire. Twisted pairs.

SpiderX1016

Thanks for the offer but I think I might have some in the garage.

Sweet so I can just route one wire of cat6 to the trunk and use how many wires necessary (4)? That's going to save some time.

So I didn't really think this out. I have two 4 gauge wires going to two amps. One 1,500w amp and the Onyx 4.80.
Can I safely put a distro block and use 4' of 8 gauge to the Onyx and MS8?

geekybiker

If that's really a 1500w amp you're probably looking at 1/0 to the trunk, a distribution block. Then 4g to the 1500w and 8g to the 4.80. Might as well run 4g to the 4.80 from the distribution block though.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

The thermostat wire seems to do pretty good for me. I get 0 noise when on or off. Sounds great!

Spider- I'd do 0/1 from battery to trunk...distro to 2 4ga.....1 to each amp. With that kind of power, no reason to skimp on essential wiring.

SpiderX1016

If I had done this from scratch, I'd run 0 gauge but I want to work with what I have.

The 4 gauge going to my Audiopipe AP1500 seems fine.

geekybiker

Its undersized. You're probably not really seeing 1500w out of it with 4g. Of course you have enough extra power that it doesn't really matter. You said you had two 4g to the batt? Maybe you can find a distribution block with two ins. Or just wire one to an in and one two an out with a three way block. Might help spread the load a little bit. I'm not sure you're going to notice a ton of difference though.