Audio Upgrade Plan - Suggestions?
05-13-2011, 12:59 PM
#1
Audio Upgrade Plan - Suggestions?
Good afternoon Aziners,
I've been reading all the former threads here to upgrade my current stock system and have a few questions remaining about my proposed setup. I'd like to have a good plan before approaching an installer or two. I'm more interested in SQ than SPL so if any of you have any suggestions, thank you.
My budget is around the $1500 mark and I've made a few decisions up-front to help me work out the rest of the details. I listen to mostly classic rock/alternative/electronic types of music. I know everyone speaks about a Processor but I'm not keen on the processors I've reviewed and I think I'd like to get a 3Sixty.3 when it comes out as an upgrade. So for now, looks like my option is speaker-level tap only since I want to keep the 5.1 surround time alignments and crossing freqs.
System Proposed:
HU - will remain
Front Mid/Tweets - Recently purchased a pair of HAT Imagine Comps
Center - Recently picked up a Boston S35
Rear - This is where I'm stumped...I've looked at Boston SC65s, ID CTX65s, CDT -EL6s and some Auditor by Focal 6.5s. Just looking for a nice set of rear-fills that could be used elsewhere down the road, if needed. ??
Sub - I've been looking at Dayton HO 10", Peerless XXLS 10", or ARC Series but not sure given my RMSW what would be best. Local installer sells the ARCs and T3 Audio subs along with RF (not sure I want the RF for SQ). ??
For amplification, I plan to pull out my PPI Art Series 404 (4x50 but underrated) for the Center and Rear Fill (leaving one channel not used). I've also been considering the Front/Sub amp as the ARC Audio KS300.4 (90x2 + 350x1) or the KS.125.4 Mini (75x2 + 250x1) (although I do like the Vibe Audio Litebox amps for cheaper, seems these run too hot...??). The fronts will get the 1st 2 channels while the sub will be bridged on the rear channels. Which amount of power for the 2nd amp will best blend output-wise with the PPI?
How would you configure this setup? Navone or PAC LOCs and use the bass boost on the ARC series to compensate the sub rolloff below 80hz?
I could probably wire RCAs directly from stock amp speaker to Amp Inputs but I'm not sure how the PPI will handle (the ARC looks like it will accept a lower voltage input).
Necessary for this setup to have a 12V run directly to the amp or use the ARC Series chip auto-sense function for power on/off?
For the subs, looks like I need a .6 to 1.0 sealed enclosure - mount firing directly at trunk-pass or on side (something about the side mounting tells me it would be 'boomier' and not 'tight' for SQ but not sure here)?
The doors and rear deck will definitely get sound deadener. I want to avoid the whole trunk and just bolt down the license plate but I guess this depends on the direction I go with the enclosure (maybe not?).
Thanks in advance. TGIF!
I've been reading all the former threads here to upgrade my current stock system and have a few questions remaining about my proposed setup. I'd like to have a good plan before approaching an installer or two. I'm more interested in SQ than SPL so if any of you have any suggestions, thank you.
My budget is around the $1500 mark and I've made a few decisions up-front to help me work out the rest of the details. I listen to mostly classic rock/alternative/electronic types of music. I know everyone speaks about a Processor but I'm not keen on the processors I've reviewed and I think I'd like to get a 3Sixty.3 when it comes out as an upgrade. So for now, looks like my option is speaker-level tap only since I want to keep the 5.1 surround time alignments and crossing freqs.
System Proposed:
HU - will remain
Front Mid/Tweets - Recently purchased a pair of HAT Imagine Comps
Center - Recently picked up a Boston S35
Rear - This is where I'm stumped...I've looked at Boston SC65s, ID CTX65s, CDT -EL6s and some Auditor by Focal 6.5s. Just looking for a nice set of rear-fills that could be used elsewhere down the road, if needed. ??
Sub - I've been looking at Dayton HO 10", Peerless XXLS 10", or ARC Series but not sure given my RMSW what would be best. Local installer sells the ARCs and T3 Audio subs along with RF (not sure I want the RF for SQ). ??
For amplification, I plan to pull out my PPI Art Series 404 (4x50 but underrated) for the Center and Rear Fill (leaving one channel not used). I've also been considering the Front/Sub amp as the ARC Audio KS300.4 (90x2 + 350x1) or the KS.125.4 Mini (75x2 + 250x1) (although I do like the Vibe Audio Litebox amps for cheaper, seems these run too hot...??). The fronts will get the 1st 2 channels while the sub will be bridged on the rear channels. Which amount of power for the 2nd amp will best blend output-wise with the PPI?
How would you configure this setup? Navone or PAC LOCs and use the bass boost on the ARC series to compensate the sub rolloff below 80hz?
I could probably wire RCAs directly from stock amp speaker to Amp Inputs but I'm not sure how the PPI will handle (the ARC looks like it will accept a lower voltage input).
Necessary for this setup to have a 12V run directly to the amp or use the ARC Series chip auto-sense function for power on/off?
For the subs, looks like I need a .6 to 1.0 sealed enclosure - mount firing directly at trunk-pass or on side (something about the side mounting tells me it would be 'boomier' and not 'tight' for SQ but not sure here)?
The doors and rear deck will definitely get sound deadener. I want to avoid the whole trunk and just bolt down the license plate but I guess this depends on the direction I go with the enclosure (maybe not?).
Thanks in advance. TGIF!
05-13-2011, 01:18 PM
#2
First off, is you're budget of $1500 AFTER the purchase of all the stuff you already have? If not, then re-calculate what you've spend and give us a new budget for Sub(s) & Amps.
Good afternoon Aziners,
I've been reading all the former threads here to upgrade my current stock system and have a few questions remaining about my proposed setup. I'd like to have a good plan before approaching an installer or two. I'm more interested in SQ than SPL so if any of you have any suggestions, thank you.
My budget is around the $1500 mark and I've made a few decisions up-front to help me work out the rest of the details. I listen to mostly classic rock/alternative/electronic types of music. I know everyone speaks about a Processor but I'm not keen on the processors I've reviewed and I think I'd like to get a 3Sixty.3 when it comes out as an upgrade. So for now, looks like my option is speaker-level tap only since I want to keep the 5.1 surround time alignments and crossing freqs.
System Proposed:
HU - will remain
Front Mid/Tweets - Recently purchased a pair of HAT Imagine Comps
Center - Recently picked up a Boston S35
Rear - This is where I'm stumped...I've looked at Boston SC65s, ID CTX65s, CDT -EL6s and some Auditor by Focal 6.5s. Just looking for a nice set of rear-fills that could be used elsewhere down the road, if needed. ??
I wouldn't do rear's as the factory ones will play just fine when amp'd for the rear fill. I would spend this extra money upgrading your fronts or on the sub/amp.
Sub - I've been looking at Dayton HO 10", Peerless XXLS 10", or ARC Series but not sure given my RMSW what would be best. Local installer sells the ARCs and T3 Audio subs along with RF (not sure I want the RF for SQ). ??
Good sub's but if you're going sealed then you can definitely do 2 10's or 2 12's, especially on a $1500 budget and with the type of music you like. I'll figure out the budget thing first then recommend sub(s)
For amplification, I plan to pull out my PPI Art Series 404 (4x50 but underrated) for the Center and Rear Fill (leaving one channel not used). I've also been considering the Front/Sub amp as the ARC Audio KS300.4 (90x2 + 350x1) or the KS.125.4 Mini (75x2 + 250x1) (although I do like the Vibe Audio Litebox amps for cheaper, seems these run too hot...??). The fronts will get the 1st 2 channels while the sub will be bridged on the rear channels. Which amount of power for the 2nd amp will best blend output-wise with the PPI?
Center/Rear Fill amp is fine with that amount of power. 90 and 75 for the front components though...are not. I'd send them 150 at least, that's my personal opinion though.
How would you configure this setup? Navone or PAC LOCs and use the bass boost on the ARC series to compensate the sub rolloff below 80hz? I could probably wire RCAs directly from stock amp speaker to Amp Inputs but I'm not sure how the PPI will handle (the ARC looks like it will accept a lower voltage input).Necessary for this setup to have a 12V run directly to the amp or use the ARC Series chip auto-sense function for power on/off?
For the subs, looks like I need a .6 to 1.0 sealed enclosure - mount firing directly at trunk-pass or on side (something about the side mounting tells me it would be 'boomier' and not 'tight' for SQ but not sure here)?
The doors and rear deck will definitely get sound deadener. I want to avoid the whole trunk and just bolt down the license plate but I guess this depends on the direction I go with the enclosure (maybe not?).
Contact Don at Sound Deadener Showdown. The products seem top notch and he's a good guy to deal with. Very helpful/knowledgeable and will return your e-mails quickly
Thanks in advance. TGIF!
I've been reading all the former threads here to upgrade my current stock system and have a few questions remaining about my proposed setup. I'd like to have a good plan before approaching an installer or two. I'm more interested in SQ than SPL so if any of you have any suggestions, thank you.
My budget is around the $1500 mark and I've made a few decisions up-front to help me work out the rest of the details. I listen to mostly classic rock/alternative/electronic types of music. I know everyone speaks about a Processor but I'm not keen on the processors I've reviewed and I think I'd like to get a 3Sixty.3 when it comes out as an upgrade. So for now, looks like my option is speaker-level tap only since I want to keep the 5.1 surround time alignments and crossing freqs.
System Proposed:
HU - will remain
Front Mid/Tweets - Recently purchased a pair of HAT Imagine Comps
Center - Recently picked up a Boston S35
Rear - This is where I'm stumped...I've looked at Boston SC65s, ID CTX65s, CDT -EL6s and some Auditor by Focal 6.5s. Just looking for a nice set of rear-fills that could be used elsewhere down the road, if needed. ??
I wouldn't do rear's as the factory ones will play just fine when amp'd for the rear fill. I would spend this extra money upgrading your fronts or on the sub/amp.
Sub - I've been looking at Dayton HO 10", Peerless XXLS 10", or ARC Series but not sure given my RMSW what would be best. Local installer sells the ARCs and T3 Audio subs along with RF (not sure I want the RF for SQ). ??
Good sub's but if you're going sealed then you can definitely do 2 10's or 2 12's, especially on a $1500 budget and with the type of music you like. I'll figure out the budget thing first then recommend sub(s)
For amplification, I plan to pull out my PPI Art Series 404 (4x50 but underrated) for the Center and Rear Fill (leaving one channel not used). I've also been considering the Front/Sub amp as the ARC Audio KS300.4 (90x2 + 350x1) or the KS.125.4 Mini (75x2 + 250x1) (although I do like the Vibe Audio Litebox amps for cheaper, seems these run too hot...??). The fronts will get the 1st 2 channels while the sub will be bridged on the rear channels. Which amount of power for the 2nd amp will best blend output-wise with the PPI?
Center/Rear Fill amp is fine with that amount of power. 90 and 75 for the front components though...are not. I'd send them 150 at least, that's my personal opinion though.
How would you configure this setup? Navone or PAC LOCs and use the bass boost on the ARC series to compensate the sub rolloff below 80hz? I could probably wire RCAs directly from stock amp speaker to Amp Inputs but I'm not sure how the PPI will handle (the ARC looks like it will accept a lower voltage input).Necessary for this setup to have a 12V run directly to the amp or use the ARC Series chip auto-sense function for power on/off?
For the subs, looks like I need a .6 to 1.0 sealed enclosure - mount firing directly at trunk-pass or on side (something about the side mounting tells me it would be 'boomier' and not 'tight' for SQ but not sure here)?
The doors and rear deck will definitely get sound deadener. I want to avoid the whole trunk and just bolt down the license plate but I guess this depends on the direction I go with the enclosure (maybe not?).
Contact Don at Sound Deadener Showdown. The products seem top notch and he's a good guy to deal with. Very helpful/knowledgeable and will return your e-mails quickly
Thanks in advance. TGIF!
05-13-2011, 01:31 PM
#3
To clarify, budget excludes what I have already purchased (PPI Art Amp/BA S35 & HAT Comp Speakers). I can stretch another 500 or so but would rather put that into some new Conti tires in a few months.
Doing this upgrade to stretch out using the 3G TL until the 5G makes it's debut.
Doing this upgrade to stretch out using the 3G TL until the 5G makes it's debut.
05-13-2011, 01:48 PM
#5
Dogmatic Dinosaur
Buy a set of individual 6.5s from woofers.etc for the rear deck. Somewhere from 80-2500hz, or so, will be nice on 50w. When eggyhustles reads this, he will know of some to recommend.
If I was doing my car again, I would take a single bad-ass 10 (or 12), put it in a small sealed box and mount it to the rear seat where the 10 will fire through the armrest. I am talking about actually screwing the box to the rear seat braces. The box should not take up more than 6-7" of the front of the trunk and you would not even know that it was there. I think that 500W on something like this would be overkill.
The post-amp signals are high enough to drive any amp. Just wire them into some RCAs and skip the LOC. The pre-amp signal might not drive the PPI art amp unless it can function under 1V.
Take the counterweight out of the trunk - it is noisy and easy to take off.
If I was doing my car again, I would take a single bad-ass 10 (or 12), put it in a small sealed box and mount it to the rear seat where the 10 will fire through the armrest. I am talking about actually screwing the box to the rear seat braces. The box should not take up more than 6-7" of the front of the trunk and you would not even know that it was there. I think that 500W on something like this would be overkill.
The post-amp signals are high enough to drive any amp. Just wire them into some RCAs and skip the LOC. The pre-amp signal might not drive the PPI art amp unless it can function under 1V.
Take the counterweight out of the trunk - it is noisy and easy to take off.
05-13-2011, 02:08 PM
#6
So post amp signals are better to take than pre-amp signals? I believe my LOC is wired in by taking the sub wires before they reach the factory amp...not completely positive though.
OP- You could pick up the Massive Audio NX5 for super cheap. 120x4 and 800x1. Small amp too! 800rms would be plenty for a single 12 or 10 if you're not trying to get loud. Any of those subs or a few others will sound great and get plenty loud for you it seems.
OP- You could pick up the Massive Audio NX5 for super cheap. 120x4 and 800x1. Small amp too! 800rms would be plenty for a single 12 or 10 if you're not trying to get loud. Any of those subs or a few others will sound great and get plenty loud for you it seems.
Last edited by Trunk Monkey; 05-13-2011 at 02:18 PM.
05-13-2011, 02:35 PM
#7
Dogmatic Dinosaur
Depends on the situation. If you want to just run some comps off of some crossovers, then the post-amp signal is usable and fine. If you want to process, then I would run it off of the pre-amp signal.
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05-13-2011, 05:09 PM
#8
Drifting
Leave the stocks in for rear fill. They'll open up with some power on them. I usually don't recommend rear fill unless you'll send a dedicated L-R "difference" or surround signal to those rear speakers. Stereo rears will just make it sound like a factory system with no front stage.
Since you plan on using a corner pocket sealed enclosure, scratch the dayton off of the list. Those were designed for small ported. the peerless or the seas lroy would work well in small sealed https://www.madisound.com/store/prod...oducts_id=8535
Go with the vibe's for power. why not 2 amps vs 1? litebox 1 and 4 would be ideal imo, but the 4 could work by itself.
Since you plan on using a corner pocket sealed enclosure, scratch the dayton off of the list. Those were designed for small ported. the peerless or the seas lroy would work well in small sealed https://www.madisound.com/store/prod...oducts_id=8535
Go with the vibe's for power. why not 2 amps vs 1? litebox 1 and 4 would be ideal imo, but the 4 could work by itself.
05-13-2011, 10:56 PM
#9
06 WDP/Ebony MT NAV ASPEC
I bought the hat's too just waiting for them to come in, post some pics if you can of what you needed to mod to fit in the doors and how they sound.
05-14-2011, 02:29 PM
#10
Have you considered using the JBL MS-8? For what you are trying to do it will do a great job especially if you want to maintain 5.1 sound in your car. I dont understand what you mean by wanting to keep your factory crossover points, as you change the drivers you will need to change crossover points accordingly.
Post up pics of that PPI art series amp!!!
Post up pics of that PPI art series amp!!!
05-15-2011, 09:50 AM
#11
Thanks everyone.
Re: Stock Amp - I had read that there are 2 functions passing through the stock amp that I will 'adopt' by using the LOCs:
1) HU will regulate bass/treble based on volume (more at low volume/less at high volume) so as to protect the speakers. No issue for me as I plan to amplify well over my listening levels.
2) I understood that the center only receives 350hz and above; full on front mid/tweets; rears get like 80hz to over 10khz and sub receives 80hz and below. If this is the case, I don't see any issue with these x-over points for channels. The HAT front comps have a built-in natural xover so receiving full range should address correct xovers in that area.
Also, I thought of only using 1 LOC for the center and rears so as not to have bass rolloff with an LOC (I'll wire the RCAs directly into the sub amp and use the amp sub boost to help with the volume regulation in the amp). I'll have to use it on my PPI art as there are no speaker-level inputs on this oldie but goodie amp.
Thanks for the suggestion on the MS-8 but I have a feeling RF has learned a lot from their first 2 versions and will pull ahead of the market with the 3rd version (I'll upgrade with this probably once I see the delivery of the auto-tune execution).
Re: the Dayton HO, yeah - I just don't think I'm going to have enough power ported or sealed. What a price on it though! I need an efficient 10 or 12 (for my needs) so I'll look into those other suggestions - thanks Eggy!
I purchased all the Metra speaker connections so I can migrate some of my components to a future car and replace with stock speakers later, if needed.
This may be a situational question, but does anyone know at what point with the stock battery that a capacitor is recommended? Pros/Cons of having one anyway? When I had 2 systems in the early 90s, never used one but replaced plenty of alternators. LOL Thanks!
Re: Stock Amp - I had read that there are 2 functions passing through the stock amp that I will 'adopt' by using the LOCs:
1) HU will regulate bass/treble based on volume (more at low volume/less at high volume) so as to protect the speakers. No issue for me as I plan to amplify well over my listening levels.
2) I understood that the center only receives 350hz and above; full on front mid/tweets; rears get like 80hz to over 10khz and sub receives 80hz and below. If this is the case, I don't see any issue with these x-over points for channels. The HAT front comps have a built-in natural xover so receiving full range should address correct xovers in that area.
Also, I thought of only using 1 LOC for the center and rears so as not to have bass rolloff with an LOC (I'll wire the RCAs directly into the sub amp and use the amp sub boost to help with the volume regulation in the amp). I'll have to use it on my PPI art as there are no speaker-level inputs on this oldie but goodie amp.
Thanks for the suggestion on the MS-8 but I have a feeling RF has learned a lot from their first 2 versions and will pull ahead of the market with the 3rd version (I'll upgrade with this probably once I see the delivery of the auto-tune execution).
Re: the Dayton HO, yeah - I just don't think I'm going to have enough power ported or sealed. What a price on it though! I need an efficient 10 or 12 (for my needs) so I'll look into those other suggestions - thanks Eggy!
I purchased all the Metra speaker connections so I can migrate some of my components to a future car and replace with stock speakers later, if needed.
This may be a situational question, but does anyone know at what point with the stock battery that a capacitor is recommended? Pros/Cons of having one anyway? When I had 2 systems in the early 90s, never used one but replaced plenty of alternators. LOL Thanks!
05-15-2011, 02:15 PM
#13
Team Owner
Have you considered using the JBL MS-8? For what you are trying to do it will do a great job especially if you want to maintain 5.1 sound in your car. I dont understand what you mean by wanting to keep your factory crossover points, as you change the drivers you will need to change crossover points accordingly.
Post up pics of that PPI art series amp!!!
Post up pics of that PPI art series amp!!!
Since I heard your car, I've gone with two Acoustic Elegance IB15s, some Dyn 342s, and an MS8. I've referenced your pictures many times when fabbing the baffle for the subs.
06-02-2011, 09:13 AM
#14
Very insightful comments from everyone - my thanks! After talking with a very reputable local installer and he states he's done several TLs, I'm trying to resolve my final direction on the build.
Option 1: Use PPI ART Amp for both front comps and sub (50 WRMS to each side on Comps and 200 WRMS to single 12 (possibly Peerless XXLS or SSA DCON 12"). Rear factory 6.5s and Center will be powered still by factory amp. Sub box will be sealed firing rearward (this was his recommendation).
Option 2: Use PPI ART amp for just the comps up-front which will provide considerable more headroom to liven up the comps at 200 WRMS on each side. A second amp (possibly a Sundown SAX 125.2 or Clarion APX2181) to drive another single 12 (Peerless would be out probably due to higher amp - thinking of a RE Audio SEX12 or TC Sounds EPIC or the SSA DCON- lower $$).
I don't know that I want my sound that LOUD but I definately want clean sound. Anyone have any suggestions on these 2 proposals? Pros/cons? I don't want to be replacing alternators every 6 months on my TL so I'm not sure if a cap is required for option #2. Would I be wasting $ on the additional amp? The PPI is underrated so I'm thinking I'll get 60 to the front and 220 to the back when really pushing the ART but I don't want to fry it either or have noise floor issues.
One other thing that surprised me about the installer's suggestion - he stated he would tap the front comps (pre-amp signal) and the sub (post-amp signal). I'm not sure why but this has me puzzled from what I've read. Would taking the pre-amp signal on the fronts have any effect on the time alignment/processing for the 5.1 when playing DVD-As?
Just a hint too - the installer who competes at national sound compets stated that a little birdy informed him that a new DSP is coming out later in the year for around 6 bills that will blow away the MS-8 and the RF (even the .3 upcoming version). He wasn't too keen on either of the former when I mentioned them.
Option 1: Use PPI ART Amp for both front comps and sub (50 WRMS to each side on Comps and 200 WRMS to single 12 (possibly Peerless XXLS or SSA DCON 12"). Rear factory 6.5s and Center will be powered still by factory amp. Sub box will be sealed firing rearward (this was his recommendation).
Option 2: Use PPI ART amp for just the comps up-front which will provide considerable more headroom to liven up the comps at 200 WRMS on each side. A second amp (possibly a Sundown SAX 125.2 or Clarion APX2181) to drive another single 12 (Peerless would be out probably due to higher amp - thinking of a RE Audio SEX12 or TC Sounds EPIC or the SSA DCON- lower $$).
I don't know that I want my sound that LOUD but I definately want clean sound. Anyone have any suggestions on these 2 proposals? Pros/cons? I don't want to be replacing alternators every 6 months on my TL so I'm not sure if a cap is required for option #2. Would I be wasting $ on the additional amp? The PPI is underrated so I'm thinking I'll get 60 to the front and 220 to the back when really pushing the ART but I don't want to fry it either or have noise floor issues.
One other thing that surprised me about the installer's suggestion - he stated he would tap the front comps (pre-amp signal) and the sub (post-amp signal). I'm not sure why but this has me puzzled from what I've read. Would taking the pre-amp signal on the fronts have any effect on the time alignment/processing for the 5.1 when playing DVD-As?
Just a hint too - the installer who competes at national sound compets stated that a little birdy informed him that a new DSP is coming out later in the year for around 6 bills that will blow away the MS-8 and the RF (even the .3 upcoming version). He wasn't too keen on either of the former when I mentioned them.
06-02-2011, 09:28 AM
#15
Dogmatic Dinosaur
The PPI were clean amps when they were new. If it has been used well for years, then it could start to be getting noisy. No way to know without hooking it up. Even the best amps wear out, but those were awesome amps.
The pre-amp signal will work for both the comps and sub. If you process, then the pre-amp LF and RF signal is full range and flat and you can use it for the processor for the sub too.
If you want to keep the 5.1 of the stock stereo, then you need to keep all 6 channels. The stock amp just amps, it does nothing with the signals other than cut them a bit depending on the driver getting powered. The HU does all of the 5.1 crap.
Which comps are you going to use? Just about any of them will appreciate 200w per side. This is the most important part of your decision IMO.
How could your guy know enough about a product that is not out compared to the current MS8 and also against the not-out 3sixty.3? I don't know too much, but I do like to compare products to product and not promises to real products. I have been let down a million times in my life by promises of better products only to find out that they are hype and trash. There are already likely DSPs out better than the MS8 or 3sixty. None of them are all that bad, just pick one that you like and it should work for 98% of installs. What the guy forgot to tell you is that if you keep the PPI ART amp and use the 4 channels, that the 50x4 that it does will not power components all that well if you process (especially the mid-bass). If you bridge the PPI, then you are stuck with the crossover which will severely limit your processing ability.
The pre-amp signal will work for both the comps and sub. If you process, then the pre-amp LF and RF signal is full range and flat and you can use it for the processor for the sub too.
If you want to keep the 5.1 of the stock stereo, then you need to keep all 6 channels. The stock amp just amps, it does nothing with the signals other than cut them a bit depending on the driver getting powered. The HU does all of the 5.1 crap.
Which comps are you going to use? Just about any of them will appreciate 200w per side. This is the most important part of your decision IMO.
How could your guy know enough about a product that is not out compared to the current MS8 and also against the not-out 3sixty.3? I don't know too much, but I do like to compare products to product and not promises to real products. I have been let down a million times in my life by promises of better products only to find out that they are hype and trash. There are already likely DSPs out better than the MS8 or 3sixty. None of them are all that bad, just pick one that you like and it should work for 98% of installs. What the guy forgot to tell you is that if you keep the PPI ART amp and use the 4 channels, that the 50x4 that it does will not power components all that well if you process (especially the mid-bass). If you bridge the PPI, then you are stuck with the crossover which will severely limit your processing ability.
06-02-2011, 09:55 AM
#17
Thanks jda! I noted to him that I wanted to possibly do a phase II with a DSP down the road and that's when he gave me the info about the new DSP. Even though he is a RF dealer, he didn't seem too keen on tweaking 3Sixtys. You are right about hype though as I have seen it over the years-one man's junk is another man's treasure.
As far as the ART, I'm hoping it works out. I last used it in my SHO in 98 (I got out of car audio when my car was attacked by a gang of thieves and gutted nearly - they were gungho on getting into the trunk but I luckily had a key-driven trunk lock which they tried to break with a crobar in the SHO so the amps/subs were spared)
Although I do have a concern about the center and rear fill being overpowered by the higher watts of 2 amps, I'm now seriously considering just getting a 2nd amp to power the sub and going with either the DCON or the EPIC 12. The EPIC is the same price as the Peerless and has room to grow. THe DCON is the best value obviously at 125. For $450 more, I'll have a lot more power and no regrets on the underpowering the Imagines.
As far as the ART, I'm hoping it works out. I last used it in my SHO in 98 (I got out of car audio when my car was attacked by a gang of thieves and gutted nearly - they were gungho on getting into the trunk but I luckily had a key-driven trunk lock which they tried to break with a crobar in the SHO so the amps/subs were spared)
Although I do have a concern about the center and rear fill being overpowered by the higher watts of 2 amps, I'm now seriously considering just getting a 2nd amp to power the sub and going with either the DCON or the EPIC 12. The EPIC is the same price as the Peerless and has room to grow. THe DCON is the best value obviously at 125. For $450 more, I'll have a lot more power and no regrets on the underpowering the Imagines.
06-02-2011, 10:03 AM
#18
Dogmatic Dinosaur
The 3sixty and Bitone.1 (two that i have used) do take some work, but it is worth it. As an installer, he might not like to tweak them, but as a hobbyist, I would rather have the ability to tweak more to dial in a sound than have to stick with a less configurable operation just because it was easy.
06-02-2011, 11:16 AM
#19
Instructor
The 3sixty and Bitone.1 (two that i have used) do take some work, but it is worth it. As an installer, he might not like to tweak them, but as a hobbyist, I would rather have the ability to tweak more to dial in a sound than have to stick with a less configurable operation just because it was easy.
06-30-2011, 02:41 AM
#20
Intermediate
I was hoping to read this thread and get an idea of what to install in my 08 TL but Wow! to say I am undereducated in this field would be an understatement. I have not a clue what most of the things you guys speak of. I have a TON of research to do I guess.. is there a "For Dummies" book on this stuff?
06-30-2011, 08:25 AM
#22
Dogmatic Dinosaur
The most important thing that I have learned is to take reviews with a few grains of salt. Who is making the review is more important than the review it's self. I have heard stuff like slams, harsh, miracle, best-ever only to find out that it is not that way for me.
As you learn and grow, read closely and find a few people who trust and stick with them. Reviews and opinions are everywhere and 80% of them lack the experience and breadth to offer such an opinion, 10% have some ulterior motive in mind (sponsorship or ownership) and probably 5% are good and have the ability to take their knowledge and apply it to your situation. The other 5% are all over the place.
Good luck.
As you learn and grow, read closely and find a few people who trust and stick with them. Reviews and opinions are everywhere and 80% of them lack the experience and breadth to offer such an opinion, 10% have some ulterior motive in mind (sponsorship or ownership) and probably 5% are good and have the ability to take their knowledge and apply it to your situation. The other 5% are all over the place.
Good luck.
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jsonkimz (06-30-2011)
06-30-2011, 12:35 PM
#23
Yeah, the best advice I can give is be patient and take your time to sort through what you really want. My choice of system components has changed several times through listening further and discussing/choosing exactly what I want to get out of it. It has been educating and quite fun and hope to have mine in soon (waiting on the amp).
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