IDiggity

My buddy noticed the sound in his '08 TL was getting weak, so I'm designing a full upgrade in his car from the stock system (and possibly in my own '05 TL depending on how things go). He might not want to do it all in one shot, so I'm trying to make it so he can upgrade in stages. I'm looking for some comments/critiques/warnings/etc from those of you have delved into the ELS audio system before. Thanks in advance.

Proposed components (sorry for caps and copy-pasta):

• AUDIOCONTROL MATRIX PLUS 6-Ch Line Driver
• Rockford Fosgate PBR300X4 75Wx4 amp
• Alpine MRP-F300 50Wx4 or 150Wx2 amp (4/3/2-Ch)
• Polk Audio db651s 6.5" 2-way
• Polk Audio db6501 6.5" component w/ 1" tweeters and crossover
• Kicker CVT84 8" shallow-mount subwoofer
• PGHHD2C to make my own wiring harness and preserve the factory wires

Plan:
My plan is to mount the amps, line driver, and crossovers with associated wiring on vertical mounting boards in the trunk. I'll use PGHHD2C to extend the factory head unit outputs without needing to cut off the harness or splice into the wires upstream of it. From there I'll make my own RCA connectors to feed the line driver. I'm thinking of splicing into the factory remote turn on wire to switch on a relay in the trunk for turning on the amps and line driver. I'll use an add-a-fuse to tap into the accessory slot and run a wire to provide the constant 12V into the relay for the amp remote wires. If I understand correctly how these things work, the amps should only get the turn on signal when both the accessory circuit is on and the factory head unit is on. Right?

Stage 1:
Use RF 75Wx4 amp instead of stock amp to run stock L/R front and back speakers. I'm planning to use the trick of connecting the stock wiring for the stock rear speakers to the new amp as the wiring for the front speakers (thanks to this thread). Allow stock amp to run stock center and stock subwoofer for now. Power wires will be run with distribution blocks etc ready for future improvements.

Stage 2:
Upgrade L/R front and back speakers to Polk dBs, including front tweeters. I'm a little unsure how I'm going to run the wires for the tweeters from the crossovers in the trunk - probably up the right side and across behind the dash. It's either that or move the crossovers under the front seats. Stock amp still runs stock center and stock subwoofer for now.

Stage 3:
Replace the stock subwoofer with Kicker CVT84 and add the Alpine amp in the trunk to drive the center channel and the new subwoofer (50W to the center and 150W-bridged to the sub). Wiring trick again (same thread): the stock wiring for the stock subwoofer becomes the wiring for the center channel. Optional: upgrade the center speaker (if not, keep gains lowww).


Interested to know what you guys will say!

IDiggity

Crap - accidentally posted this in the wrong forum. Mods - perhaps if you could hear the profusely apologetic tone of my voice you would kindly move this thread into its proper home?

ParaSurfer1979

I replaced my sub in my 08 accord with a kicker 8in but the one you listed im pretty sure is not an IB "Free air" sub. Looks like youre also going away from 5.1 surround to a 2.1 stereo set-up huh?

IDiggity

Did you mount the new sub in the stock sub's location? If so, how did you like the resulting sound from it?

I'm actually sticking with the 5.1 - that's why I planned on 2 amps.

As far as the sub goes, I chose it based on mounting depth, power handling, and cost. I saw somewhere in the reviews that people had tried it IB and did ok. I'm most definitely open to suggestions, though ...

DiamondJoeQuimby

iTrader: (2)

Other than not being a fan of running the 2 different amps because I am OCD, it is a solid plan.

Again, I'd probably go with a different sub option. Something that was designed free air, and I'm not a huge fan of how the polk speakers sound, but that is merely personal preference. Electrically it is a solid layout. The overall improvement will be directly related to the quality of the install.

IDiggity

Thanks. I've read on AZ that other people have thought the Polks sounded harsh on the highs, too. Some people say that anything with a tweeter sounds terrible in the rear deck.

Any specific suggestions on alternative speakers/sub in the same general budget range?

WRT quality of install - is sound dampening material a must?

pohljm

I agree! Never use tweeters behind you! Rear fill if necessary for you can be handled easily by the OEM drivers. Sound deadening will make a significant difference. You need to seal large holes and deaden doors at a minimum. Rethink the sub strategy and you should be good

IDiggity

Hmm... just worried about my amp setup and the stock rears being 2-Ohm instead of 4. I could run them both off one channel of the amp to match the impedance, but then I'd only be getting rear fill based on either left or right channel input.

I looked around for 6.5" 4-Ohm midbass woofers, but I wasn't finding very much good stuff of comparable price. What if I stick with the db651 2-ways but cross them over such that they don't get frequencies above, say, 7000 Hz?

Suggestions?

pohljm

Keep the OEM rears on the OEM amp for rear fill. Bridge the other channels to feed the front components

tlorencz

iTrader: (1)

For the rears you could search for some midranges out there. Pyle makes a number of models, not sure if they are any good. Maybe search the forum for midrange speakers.

DiamondJoeQuimby

iTrader: (2)

Well, if you want to retain the 5.1 performance you need full range for F/R/C. Personally I am not a rear speaker fan at all. But again, that is referring to 2 channel audio, not multi-channel.

As far a speaker recommendations, just listen to as much as you can. What I like will vary from what the next guy likes, and so on. Personally I have JL Audio C5s in my car and love them. If I was going to replace them I'd probably lean toward the Hybrid Audio Legatia series.

IDiggity

An interesting and potentially cost-saving idea...

Running with it, I could use 2 of the Alpine 50Wx4 amps instead of the RF 75Wx4. They're cheaper, have better S/N (on paper), and the install would look cleaner. One of them would be bridged to 150Wx2 @4-Ohm to run the front components. The other would stay the same as originally proposed for the center and sub.

Some of the cost savings could potentially go into better front components, the center speaker, and some sound deadening for the doors and rear deck.

"Sounding" better?

IDiggity

o_O We're in pretty different price classes, there...

DiamondJoeQuimby

iTrader: (2)

Yes, but the theory holds true. Listen to stuff in your range and see what you like.

IDiggity

Ok, so what if I did this:

• Leave the rears and the center channel on the stock amp.
• Get the PAC AOEM-HON20 and repin one side of it to pass the front channels and the sub to RCA instead of front and rear.
• Run new component fronts and a new sub off of a JL Audio JX360/4 (70W to each of the front component sets, 180W bridged to sub). I would have stayed with the RF PBR300X4, but specs say it's not bridgeable.

This way, I'm down to a single amp in the trunk and I still *technically* have 5.1 and NAV/HFL audio working.


Related question:
Can I forgo the line driver(s) using PAC AOEM-HON20, or will it sound like poop without them? If I can skip the line drivers, it drastically simplifies the installation and brings the budget way down, which my friend will appreciate.

ParaSurfer1979

Sounded good. The opening had to be made bigger to accomadate the kickers magnet. I ran a 100watt amp to the sub and 50rms to the front components and rear 2-way driver. Unlike most of the members in this thread im a big advocate on having as much highs to balance out the sub and midbass drivers. If you want deep bass, the sub set-up open air wont work. too much bass and the sub will bottom out and that doesn't sound good at all... Being that I listen to trance/house/r&b, theres mostly midbass to light deepbass so this set-up worked nicely. If you have any questions about the full set-up I had let me know.

IDiggity

Ideally, I'm more interested in full range and SQ rather than SPL. I can't speak for my friend, but I'm the one designing the system. I'm pretty sure this friend isn't nearly the audiophile that I am; he's just annoyed that his speakers seem muted with the stock setup.

I realize I won't be achieving a competition level system on this budget - I'm just trying to get the best SQ I can with what I have to work with.

pohljm

Have you seen my build?

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-audio-bluetooth-electronics-navigation-94/mild-grade-fever-854353/

IDiggity

Nice. It took me a while to get through all of that thread, but I think I got the overall picture: ID components, amp and xovers under the seats, sub in IB facing into the cabin. Slick.

How do you like the responsiveness of the 15" Pyle in IB? Does it seem "sloppy" or "muddy" at all, or does it sound "tight?"

I wasn't planning on going as far as building the the plywood mount and all that - I was more picturing dropping in a better 8" sub than OEM and trying to seal up the rear deck. But I like what you've done - there's a certain cool factor to dropping down the armrest to reveal a big whomping subwoofer.

pohljm

there is way more work involved with stiffening and sealing the rear shelf than cutting a piece of wood. i am not convinced you could ever get the deck location sounding decent without a ton of hard work. IB is a simple choice in this car. the 15 can play tight or muddy it depends on the material. it sounds natural