Any suggestions on '08 ELS 5.1 sound system upgrades?
05-18-2011, 01:31 PM
#202
Will do, good news to I was over at my buddies about an hour away and he took me to a shop who just started selling focals. He turned one vb up and boy did that thing crank. They wanted $449 for.a set! They eben had the realllllllll expensive ones but I didnt but I didnt listen.
amp and vb ordered already can't wait to get them.
amp and vb ordered already can't wait to get them.
05-19-2011, 10:12 AM
#205
Dogmatic Dinosaur
I am glad that you liked them at the shop. I can almost bet that they had those on about 75 watts, or so, which is the Manufacturers RMS on the set even though each piece can take 75 watts. If you can handle them at 75 watts, then you could keep channels 3 and 4 open for a subwoofer. This set on 75 watts will sound like many others on 100-125+ because they are so efficient.
Have your installer start them at -3 db on the tweeter... but make sure that he puts the crossover where you can get to it if you need to.
That amp will do about 500 watts at 2 ohms when bridged - when you get your birth sheet, double the bridged rating at 4 ohms to get a pretty good idea of the power at 2 ohms. It is stable at 2 ohms. I am driving a Sundown SA-8 off of channels 3 and 4 and that same amp will give the sub all that it wants.
Have your installer start them at -3 db on the tweeter... but make sure that he puts the crossover where you can get to it if you need to.
That amp will do about 500 watts at 2 ohms when bridged - when you get your birth sheet, double the bridged rating at 4 ohms to get a pretty good idea of the power at 2 ohms. It is stable at 2 ohms. I am driving a Sundown SA-8 off of channels 3 and 4 and that same amp will give the sub all that it wants.
05-19-2011, 03:55 PM
#207
Yeah I talked to him today, he has so many projects going on but he is going to try and bang out the install at the end of next week or the week after. He actually did 8'' sub enclosure in a Harley (saddle bags) with pretty much custom everything. The guy took it to Daytona and I guess there was one other guy there that had components that actually sounded louder. So he is going to run the Focals or Massive RK6 (which i just found out he was a dealer for as well) in the Harley haha, I know its crazy but it does turn heads for many reasons.
Anyways, all thats left to order is sound deadening which im still open to which brands etc. . . If just deadening the doors I wont need all that much, but I remember people saying a couple layers.
Thanks JDA about the heads up with the components, im sure I will have more questions when the time comes.
Anyways, all thats left to order is sound deadening which im still open to which brands etc. . . If just deadening the doors I wont need all that much, but I remember people saying a couple layers.
Thanks JDA about the heads up with the components, im sure I will have more questions when the time comes.
05-25-2011, 10:44 AM
#208
I know this threads going to die for a week or so for everything to come in but I did get my T-400-2 in today. The birth sheet gives the actual power as follows...
158 x 2 @ 4 ohms
262 x 2 @ 2 ohms
524 x 1 @ 4 ohms
Total RMS 524
I also missed the fed ex guy so I think the focals are in too. Im hoping next week I can get the project underway.
158 x 2 @ 4 ohms
262 x 2 @ 2 ohms
524 x 1 @ 4 ohms
Total RMS 524
I also missed the fed ex guy so I think the focals are in too. Im hoping next week I can get the project underway.
08-16-2011, 07:10 PM
#209
Well after 2 months of a 6 year relationship ending has put me WAYYYY behind on schedule with this. I talked to my installer and told him this MUST get started on Thursday of this week. Anyways to my main question. . . .
I've been doing some more reading here and the thing im most confused with is people using LOC, processor etc. . . Im not trying to buy a processor, but what have most of you done or used, a LOC? As stated before im running new focals and Rockford Fosgate 400-2. I would like to run the factory amp to the rears and just the new amp to the front components.
I've been doing some more reading here and the thing im most confused with is people using LOC, processor etc. . . Im not trying to buy a processor, but what have most of you done or used, a LOC? As stated before im running new focals and Rockford Fosgate 400-2. I would like to run the factory amp to the rears and just the new amp to the front components.
08-16-2011, 10:40 PM
#210
We run processors, etc (steer clear of LOC's if you can) b/c you have to have an amp that accepts balanced signals or you'll get noise in your fronts. I'm not sure if that amp will accept a balanced signal but I would contact RF either way to make sure and/or check the manual.
If the amp does not accept balanced signal, you'll need either RF-BLD, Audiocontrol units (Matrix), or processor. The BLD will work for the fronts but is only a 2-channel and can be found for $75 shipped online. The Audiocontrol units can be found for $100 and will run 6ish channels. best budget buy here. processors like the RF 3sixty.2 can be had for $200ish and will do everything..eq, time alignment, etc.
If the amp does not accept balanced signal, you'll need either RF-BLD, Audiocontrol units (Matrix), or processor. The BLD will work for the fronts but is only a 2-channel and can be found for $75 shipped online. The Audiocontrol units can be found for $100 and will run 6ish channels. best budget buy here. processors like the RF 3sixty.2 can be had for $200ish and will do everything..eq, time alignment, etc.
08-16-2011, 11:54 PM
#211
I've been doing some more reading here and the thing im most confused with is people using LOC, processor etc. . . Im not trying to buy a processor, but what have most of you done or used, a LOC? As stated before im running new focals and Rockford Fosgate 400-2. I would like to run the factory amp to the rears and just the new amp to the front components.
08-17-2011, 09:14 AM
#212
Well look at that! It's your lucky day since the 400-4 accepts balanced. Gains might have to be turned up a ways as our pre-amp signal is very low but you can at least see if you like it first. Tossing in a line driver isn't too hard if needed
08-17-2011, 09:19 AM
#213
Dogmatic Dinosaur
I am pretty sure that the fosgate does not accept a balanced differential signal. Write them and ask for sure. They use something called TOPAZ in their amps to eliminate ground loop noise, but I am not 100% sure what that is.
I think that you are going to need a BLD, or the like.
The Fosgates can take a line level input through the RCAs like the JL Amps (and many others) do. No need for a LOC anywhere. However, I would not use a post amp signal anyway.
I think that you are going to need a BLD, or the like.
The Fosgates can take a line level input through the RCAs like the JL Amps (and many others) do. No need for a LOC anywhere. However, I would not use a post amp signal anyway.
08-17-2011, 09:52 AM
#214
I am pretty sure that the fosgate does not accept a balanced differential signal. Write them and ask for sure. They use something called TOPAZ in their amps to eliminate ground loop noise, but I am not 100% sure what that is.
I think that you are going to need a BLD, or the like.
The Fosgates can take a line level input through the RCAs like the JL Amps (and many others) do. No need for a LOC anywhere. However, I would not use a post amp signal anyway.
I think that you are going to need a BLD, or the like.
The Fosgates can take a line level input through the RCAs like the JL Amps (and many others) do. No need for a LOC anywhere. However, I would not use a post amp signal anyway.
I assumed it wouldn't take a line level input since the Fosgate site said it was a low level input. I've seen that the JL amps do but they also have a "High" switch for speaker level. It's possible that the Fosgate will take a speaker level but it doesn't seem to be documented by them.
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/scrip...ted=1171995578
08-17-2011, 10:31 AM
#216
Dogmatic Dinosaur
The manual says the same thing about my T400-4 and it does not work. Write or call them. Seriously. Maybe I just jacked it up, but the same cables work fine in JL, Zapco, Audison and a few others.
Last edited by jda123; 08-17-2011 at 10:36 AM.
08-18-2011, 01:07 PM
#222
I talked to Fosgate. They said that "TOPAZ" they used to use that in their old amps. I told him my scenerio and he said he personally uses a LOC but using a fosgate BLD or Matrix may be worth the $100 bucks. Anyone feel free to chime in and let me know what you used.
08-18-2011, 01:41 PM
#223
LOC's are cheap and will degrade sound
You can run a RF-BLD but it's only 2-channels. Which is fine....but for $25 more for the Audiocontrol Matrix unit that has 6-channels and is nice looking, etc...why not! They might say it accepts balanced but if JDA has used it and got noise, I'd think about picking one up. You can always resell it on DIYMA pretty quickly for what you paid for it
You can run a RF-BLD but it's only 2-channels. Which is fine....but for $25 more for the Audiocontrol Matrix unit that has 6-channels and is nice looking, etc...why not! They might say it accepts balanced but if JDA has used it and got noise, I'd think about picking one up. You can always resell it on DIYMA pretty quickly for what you paid for it
08-18-2011, 04:26 PM
#225
Yeah that's fine. If you don't think you'll be using a sub at all then you're good. It might be small enough to mount near the factory amp too. If you think you might go with a sub, rears, whatever...might consider the AC Matrix for $25 more though.
08-18-2011, 05:52 PM
#226
I appreciate it man. Im just so anxious to get all this installed considering i've been looking at all the equipment for MONTHS. Im ordering the BPL tonight.
08-19-2011, 02:15 PM
#227
I will assume that you get the t400-4 and Polyglass from somebody. Here is some stuff to pass along to your installer since I have had both of these products:
Remove the stock tweeter from the cover. Use a holesaw and mount the TNA tweeter cup into the stock cover. These image pretty nice from up here and will be very detailed and smooth up to their limit. Run new wire for these. (FYI - after about 75-80W (meaning about 160-175W to the pair), these tweeters will sound awful... this means that you are over their ability so keep it lower) I would start at -3 and see how you like it.
Use 3/4 MDF rings, but you will still have to cut metal on the doors - he will know how to do it (it is easy). Run new wire for this - the stock wires will not handle the wattage at high levels.
The T400-4 is a pretty good SQ amp. It does not do any signal modification at full pass, so it will have engine whine if your guy does not install it right. Even at HP, the butterworth x-over does not take out the engine whine on this amp. This is a good thing in that the amp will not filter out ANY signal, but this is a bad thing if they guy is used to JL Audio, or the like, amps that have some features built in that removes engine whine to make for a near-foolproof install. This should not be a challenge for the guy, but let him know in advance.
On the 3G TL, I would use the post-amp signal hardwired into some RCAs. No need for a line output converter unless your guy is just dead set on it for some reason.
Good luck.
Remove the stock tweeter from the cover. Use a holesaw and mount the TNA tweeter cup into the stock cover. These image pretty nice from up here and will be very detailed and smooth up to their limit. Run new wire for these. (FYI - after about 75-80W (meaning about 160-175W to the pair), these tweeters will sound awful... this means that you are over their ability so keep it lower) I would start at -3 and see how you like it.
Use 3/4 MDF rings, but you will still have to cut metal on the doors - he will know how to do it (it is easy). Run new wire for this - the stock wires will not handle the wattage at high levels.
The T400-4 is a pretty good SQ amp. It does not do any signal modification at full pass, so it will have engine whine if your guy does not install it right. Even at HP, the butterworth x-over does not take out the engine whine on this amp. This is a good thing in that the amp will not filter out ANY signal, but this is a bad thing if they guy is used to JL Audio, or the like, amps that have some features built in that removes engine whine to make for a near-foolproof install. This should not be a challenge for the guy, but let him know in advance.
On the 3G TL, I would use the post-amp signal hardwired into some RCAs. No need for a line output converter unless your guy is just dead set on it for some reason.
Good luck.
BTW RF-BPL should be here Monday.
08-19-2011, 03:30 PM
#228
Dogmatic Dinosaur
You should not have any whine or noise with that amp using the BLD. Have the installer use the pre-amp front signal - I said post-amp above, but I didn't mean it. Sorry about that.
08-19-2011, 03:37 PM
#229
Post amp should be the Grey PIN connector I believe. There's all kinds of info on here that say Grey is pre-amp and some that say Grey is post-amp. I've always thought that grey was the pre-amp...but hopefully we can get 3-4 people to confirm.
09-19-2011, 04:47 PM
#233
Install is half way done. . My guy spent about 2 hours on it today.
Couple questions for when he finishes up tommorow. When ya'll sound deaden your doors did you peal the white plastic off the door and than deaden that? As of now he deadened the metal around and behind the speaker but has not touched behind the white film.
Second question is what did you do with your stock tweeters? Did you fabricate so the stock grill is still intact? Wouldnt that ruin installing the stock tweeter in the future? My guy made little circle fabrications to drop into the tweeter hole, and than mount the Focal tweeters there.
Couple questions for when he finishes up tommorow. When ya'll sound deaden your doors did you peal the white plastic off the door and than deaden that? As of now he deadened the metal around and behind the speaker but has not touched behind the white film.
Second question is what did you do with your stock tweeters? Did you fabricate so the stock grill is still intact? Wouldnt that ruin installing the stock tweeter in the future? My guy made little circle fabrications to drop into the tweeter hole, and than mount the Focal tweeters there.
09-19-2011, 08:35 PM
#235
Install is half way done. . My guy spent about 2 hours on it today.
Couple questions for when he finishes up tommorow. When ya'll sound deaden your doors did you peal the white plastic off the door and than deaden that? As of now he deadened the metal around and behind the speaker but has not touched behind the white film.
Yes, peel that off, clean it up and deaden that area. Any flat panel will resonate.
Second question is what did you do with your stock tweeters? Did you fabricate so the stock grill is still intact? Wouldnt that ruin installing the stock tweeter in the future? My guy made little circle fabrications to drop into the tweeter hole, and than mount the Focal tweeters there.
I have mine in the factory location. You can either figure way to remove the factory tweet and mount it or just remove the whole grill/tweet assembly and mount the new one in there. With Focals, generally you don't want them on-axis so you're fine there. Not too many other places to put them in this car w/o custom work (a-pillars, etc)
Couple questions for when he finishes up tommorow. When ya'll sound deaden your doors did you peal the white plastic off the door and than deaden that? As of now he deadened the metal around and behind the speaker but has not touched behind the white film.
Yes, peel that off, clean it up and deaden that area. Any flat panel will resonate.
Second question is what did you do with your stock tweeters? Did you fabricate so the stock grill is still intact? Wouldnt that ruin installing the stock tweeter in the future? My guy made little circle fabrications to drop into the tweeter hole, and than mount the Focal tweeters there.
I have mine in the factory location. You can either figure way to remove the factory tweet and mount it or just remove the whole grill/tweet assembly and mount the new one in there. With Focals, generally you don't want them on-axis so you're fine there. Not too many other places to put them in this car w/o custom work (a-pillars, etc)
09-19-2011, 08:37 PM
#236
I wanted to keep them in the stock place so that it remains looking as stock as possible. Alot of what i have read on here is people swapping the tweets out and putting the new ones in the stock location. Are you talking off-axis or something like that?
09-19-2011, 08:57 PM
#238
Three Wheelin'
09-19-2011, 09:01 PM
#239
09-19-2011, 09:08 PM
#240
Team Owner
That plastic is mostly there for drafts and noise along with moisture. You're essentially "upgrading" X10 when you seal the door with vibration mat.