Hey guys, I currently could use some advice.

I currently have a 3g TL, with a JL 12w2 sub in the back in a box that currently takes about half of my trunk space. It's powered by a 250.1 I believe. Ive lived with it for over a year and a half, but am looking for something that can give me some trunk space back.

I forgot about the name of the guy who made those custom made boxes for the 3G TL on the left side of the trunk - I remember that him telling me it was about 300, plus for a 12w2, i would need a stronger amp like a 500.1 considering his box would've been ported. Is that the best way to go?

I WOULD like to save the same amp and sub to save money if possible, or sell it together with a box with something of the similar power, but takes less space. Any better ideas?

Thanks guys,

Joe

Heres a picture of what i have now.



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uncald4 was his name. You can check the Black Market sometimes people are parting with them

I'm not 100% sure he makes them anymore

 

Check the Black Market section here. Someone was selling one for a 10"

 

1. What are you looking for out of your system? A little low end, As much SPL you can get w/o taking up to much space, sound quality only, doesn't matter, etc???


2. What's your budget for getting a new box?



Answer that and I can help a little more. I would suggest something smaller like an 8 or 10 and if you really want to save space then you can go in a sealed box. But all that depends on your answers to question #1. That box doesn't look like it takes up much space at all haha....I can't fit anything in mine! Looks like its too small for that sub also

 

If he doesn't make them, there are several other places that offer them. I run one in each of my TLs. They are nice and take up very little usable space. Those boxes are sealed, usually.

The W2 was not recommended in a sealed box, so this likely won't work for you if you want to follow JLs recommendations about their product.

I think that some people use the 12w6 in them.

If you buy a new sub for a rear fiberglass enclosure, then buy a high powered sub that has high sound quality. There are several manufacturers that make 1000W 12" subs that will run sealed in about 1-1.25 boxes that sound great. These same companies usually make 10s that need about .6 to .75 cu ft boxes that can still take 1000W or so.

 

I saw unclad's were going for about 300 from him directly. Thats... probably as far as i wanna go period. For the most part, Im happy with how it sounds. The wattage i get from the 250.1 and ported is more than enough for me - I could do with even a little less if i had to.

Sound quality is nice now, Im not expecting anything more really.

All i really want is a... bigger trunk. haha

Should i sell the system totally and just go try to buy a new 10 to try to fit into a different box?

 

Sounds like you just want a little low end and some decent SQ with a smaller footprint. Look into the Sundown Audio SA-8. It can get loud, low, and sound decent doing it!! It only needs around .5 cu.ft. ported (around .3 sealed) so your box would be plenty small.

 

So with that, id be getting a small box and can still use my 250.1 amp? Ill just sell the box and the woofer?

Thanks man.

 

That is a 12W6v2 not a W2...slight difference.

 

Dude...that's what I was thinking but I didn't want to say anything until I could get home and check on my computer to actually view it. I checked at work but wanted to get the hell outta there so I just thought I'd post and check again when I got home. That's a HUGE! difference in SQ and SPL between the w2. That w6 and box will easily fund an SA-8 or whatever. If you put that up though, I'd hope you get someone that doesn't know what they're doing or looking at because I have a feeling you've been clipping the hell outta that sub with that amount of power.

Now...you NEED to go with something smaller because your amp isn't anywhere near what that sub needs. What exactly is the model # of your amp so I can get the full spec sheet on it?

 

Put the w6 in a smaller box and use polyfill.

 

Keep the W6 and install it in an infinite baffle configuration. This is the best sounding setup I've ever personally heard. Amazing SQ and it gets fairly loud and with little power. I just did mine this way and it's amazing. You'll spend about $35 in materials to do this and you get nearly the entire trunk back.

Here's my thread: https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-audio-bluetooth-electronics-navigation-94/who-says-you-cant-run-w6-ib-803906/

 

Oh. My bad guys. I tried to get everything off the top of my head, my fault.

I think this is the amp, almost sure. http://mobile.jlaudio.com/pdfs/Slash_amps/250_1_MAN.pdf

I dunno if its the v2 or not.

The Baffle Config looks cool, just wouldnt know where to start. It would be like... free air type of thing?

Also, you really think I've been clipping the sub? The 250.1, I was told, only was rated for 250 watts, didnt think it was more than the sub could handle.

 

I think you're mixed up on whats bad for a sub/amp. Obviously it's bad to overpower a sub to an extreme, but it's very common and very bad to underpower. You make your things work harder. What I mean by clipping is your running that sub at a low level of power. It's a general rule of thumb that you want to power your sub between 50% to 100% of it's RMS. Some of the higher end subs can withstand much higher than 100% of the advertised RMS rating. There's also subs that are very overrated...you just have to know your sub and research what people have had success with. I've heard the W6 can take over it's suggested 600rms easily but even if you went off the # of 600...your only powering it around 42%.

 

Oh, wow.

Im a DJ, have had loud speakers, and never heard that running it like... below 50% power was bad. IE that "Clipping" always meant that you were pushing the amp or sub past it's power handling rating, with possible damage to the components.

But Im learning. And that's Crazy, I thought the 250.1 was doing pretty well. The w6 seemed to be getting pushed pretty hard, with a good amount of excursion.

I couldnt find an unclad box on here, but i did find this - http://www.wickedcas.com/product.php...&cat=12&page=1

@ 350, it's a little steep. But it looks like it would work perfectly. Only... That i would need a much stronger amp i would think for sealed, correct? Does sealed sound alot better?

 

would this be a decent amp?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Hifon...#ht_4401wt_982

 

The amp requirements go way down in a free air/IB setup. I guess it depends on what you want. If you want the most output, ported. You really can't say that sealed sounds better than ported or the other way around. Ported can sound better than sealed if done right but I think sealed usually sounds better because not everyone gets it right.

I've run my W6s in every configuration now. Started with sealed, went ported, back to sealed, bandpass, and now IB. I can tell you without a doubt IB is the best sounding. It seems louder watt for watt than the sealed but not as loud as the bandpass. All you have to do is build a baffle plate for the sub to mount to and then seal up holes with expanding foam. Mine was a 2 hour job.

 

Okay, the premise is right, but the some of explanations are wrong here.

Yes, running your sub that has a RMS of 600 watts off a 1000 watt RMS amp, will not hurt the sub at all. In fact, it allows for headroom for those time when the music calls for it. Even so, just because your amp is rated at 1000 watts, you are only using a fraction of that most of the time (unless you sit in your car and listen to pure sine waves all the time at full volume) because music is dynamic.

Now, as far a clipping, clipping is NOT "running that sub at a low level of power", clipping it when the amp has run out of power and is now sending a distorted sound wave to the speaker. Sound wise, a clipped signal will sound bad. Mechanically, it has to be blatant for a very long time to damage a subwoofer (but can damage a tweeter/midrange very easily). The additional power of a larger amp would provide better sound due to the headroom. But remember, in an IB installation, the efficiency goes way up so you would not need as much power to get the volume and make it sound good as compared to a sealed enclosure.

Good Luck

 

I wouldn't recommend it. The JL that you have is a very nice amp. If anything, I would move up to a 500/1 (contact me on DIYMA, same username) or 1000/1 (but would not recommend for an IB). There are other amps that would be much better.

 

The IB setup could be really bad ass, but it takes work and has a larger margian for error. Definitely tackle this if you want the challenge and can handle it.

If you want almost a sure thing, drop that W6 in a corner fiberglass box, or build a tiny sealed box with polyfill like eggy suggested and see how it goes with the 250/1. If you need more output then sell the 250/1 and buy something bigger - the sub and box can stay the same. I am not a huge JL subwoofer fan, but the W6 does pretty well (SQ and SPL) in MEDIUM wattage sealed applications. A box at 1.25 cu ft is not too bad.

I have one of these in each of my TLs. They runs sales every once in a while where they are cheaper:
http://www.audiointegrations.net/cat...75/8253904.htm

I can make coffee jump out of a half filled cup with a single sealed 12 in a TL. These setups are not SPL monsters, but can be more than adequate for probably 99% of the people driving around.

 

Agree. Hifonics amps are OK, but that is it. They are usually over rated by a bit and the distortion goes up as the heat/power does. It might be acceptable at 4 ohms, but at 2 ohms (where you would have to run it), it would not sound as good as others. I would spend an extra 50 or 100 and get a better amp.

The 500/1 is a good choice and sounds good but it is a power hog. I would stay with a D class if you want to lessen your load on the electrical system... but any of the slash amps would be more than fine. I am being picky. Used 500/1 are not all that much.

500W should be enough for that W6... maybe 600-700 max.

 

How? All he has to do is make a baffle, seal it to the opening, and mount the sub. Not much to screw up there!

 

Just as a point of reference I'm running an old Infinity Beta Digital 300 amp rated at 1,000 watts. But I'm running a single W6 at 8 ohms so I highly doubt I'm getting even 200w and it's more than enough for anything but showing off.

My understanding from reading around at DIY, for clipping to damage a sub it has to be over a long period of time and you're going to hear it very well. If it has sounded good this whole time you're probably in no danger. It might not be a bad idea to settle on the type of enclosure you want and then seeing if it needs more power.

I drove around with the back seat out of the car for the first 3 days with the new setup just so I could hear better in case there were any issues with the sub bottoming or clipping but there were none.

 

Right, sorry...I guess I should have been more clear in my explanation. It was late and I was probably dozing in and out haha. What I meant OP was the actual "amp" is what clips causing possible mechanical, thermal failure, etc to the sub due to the difference in wave forms. You can sometimes hear it...sometimes you can't. It's when your amp tries to produce more voltage than it can causing this to happen. And it's not exactly the same as distortion. Just look up info on it at DIYMA.com (great forum) if you want to know anything else. If you've got a DMM you could check it also...


About the amp's and what to do for you setup....I see no point in getting a larger amp because you want to downsize. If you're going to downsize the setup then you need to get a new sub or put it in a sealed box, though even in a sealed box it would still need to be decently large for that sub. Keep the JL 250, sell the sub/box together on craigslist or to a friend or something and buy a smaller sub that can get loud but retain SQ in a small setup. I think spending $350 for a small box that sits in a corner is a little ridiculous when you can have a small box sitting way up by the rear seats. Make up for the depth of the box in length and you'll still have PLENTY of room. You could buy an freakin IDQ or FI Q and build a box for under the price of that box!

 

I found this thread useful over there.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...ml#post1203973

 

You have to do more than that. The rear deck and the rest of the rear seat bracing needs to be sealed. Most people won't even use dynamat/whatever and stick it to their car. Even fewer would use a foam sealer like others do. It would take a 100% commitment which I don't think that most would give in the bolt-on world that we live in today.

If you just seal a baffle to an opening, then I doubt that it will work all that well with the leakage from the other places.

That is all that I meant.

 

That's exactly what I thought too. But I did a super quick craptastic job on the tl just to see if it was woth commiting to 100%: I was very surprised. With just the large holes foamed but a good amount of leakage still, it sounds great. This weekend I'm going to seal it completely so I should be able to report back how much I was leaving on the table with the leaks.

 

Ahhh, thanks for the info, thats what i was expecting about the amp, sub thing. It makes sense. So here's my options really:

1. Keep sub, buy small box for the back left of the trunk, buy a bigger amp. Sell 250.1. Cost 350+200 for amp - 100ish to sell amp = 450 total cost.

2. Sell sub w/ box, keep amp, buy new smaller sub and box. Cost 500 for new sub and amp? - 400 for selling old box and amp? - 100 cost?

3. Try I hate car's IB free air setup. Cost - 40 bucks in materials, experience, and possibly a shitload of time. Haha ive never done this stuff.

4. Keep sub, box, amp, and suck it up. Put cargo on the roof.

I just think selling my setup and trying to get a new box, sub, etc would take a lot of time, plus i dunno if i would get a decent price for my sub and box.

 

You'd get plenty for the sub/box combo. SA-8 + small ported box = goodness

 

Option 5: build/beg/pay somebody to put that W6 in a 1 cu ft sealed box with some polyfill and use your current amp. Cost $40 bucks.
- can do other options if output is and trunk space gained back is not enough.

 

$40 + a new amp....sealed is less efficient

 

This is why I recommend the IB setup. A smaller box is...well, a smaller box but it's still going to be right there in the way. IB gets you nearly your whole trunk back.

Still not sure of the OP's goals. Not sure if he NEEDS the output of the ported box or if a sealed or IB would work.

 

My goal really is to get trunk space back. Ive been happy with the sound of what i have - as in, i wont really ever need to go louder than the 250-300 watts im getting in my ported box.

I need trunk space back to transport my DJ equipment usually, and id like the length from front to back of the trunk to be the big part of it - width isnt so big of a deal. Which is why the idea of a small box to the left of the trunk seems to be an attractive option.

Id like this to be done with the least amount of new products necessary. If possible, the amp, sub pairing would be ideal to keep (monetarily) for me.

If i go sealed, itd be a smaller box but i need a bigger amp.
I cant go to a smaller ported box because... it wont sound right.
And the IB you suggest, seems to be as simply as getting a thick piece of wood, installing the sub on that, and mounting it toward the rear seat of my cabin. That all it is really?

 

I hooked up the closest thing that I had to a W6 and a 250/1 to test it out. I used an older Fosgate T1 (600W RMS) and a Punch 125a2 amp that I had collecting dust. The 125a2 birthed around 190-210w if I remember it right from 10+ years ago. I don't have a working SPL meter, but it was decently loud. While not a world beater, it would blur the rear-view mirror enough so that you could not read a speed limit sign behind you about 20 yards.

I don't think that too many people would argue that what I used is even close to what you have in terms of power and quality... and it did pretty well. I would give the 250/1 a try with the W6 in a small sealed box before you get a new amp.

I will put my real stuff back in there tomorrow, so let me know before then if you want me to test anything out.

Here is a pic of how the box is in the trunk. The tray is in there correctly, so you can use the lines in the tray to measure up how much space the box takes up. Please forgive my ghetto wire-up job for this test.

 

Lol at your temporary setup. My biggest problem is I'll try something new out like hooking that little amp up just to see how it will do and then I never go back and do a permanent install.

 

Thanks for testing it out man. So it was 300 bucks for a sealed enclosure? Thats not... Terrible i guess. But still, more than i thought it would be lol.

When my amp is maxed on the sub, itll definitely give my car a good rattle, thats only when im showing off anyway lol. Realistically, ill only be using 25% of the real load. So i should be ok with my amp for now? I am concerned about the clipping with my amp though. If i keep my 250.1 and buy that sealed enclosure, it wouldnt be too dangerous of a setup for my sub? And I should get a decent amount of power from it?

What amp are you currently using for your setup jda?

 

I have 2 TLs and both have 12" FI Q in the Audio Integrations Box with BD1500.1bdcp amps. They are about max of 1300W at about 3.5 ohms. I chose the Q because it is the best design that I have heard (with the QTS option) for a sealed box with supurb sound quality. I chose that amp because I like to run my subs as close to 4 ohms as possible to minimize distortion and increase efficiency - the amp is about a 92% real world efficient amp even though it was only advertised at 85%. I only get the slightest light dimming when I am over about 1100W to the sub, which is not very often.

The only difference in the two setups is the color of the dust caps and brand of the wire. These are the best combos for me and what I usually want which is 1). great sound 2). around 125 db or so and 3). trunk space. I chose each one of these parts carefully for me.

Don't sweat the clipping - you can audibly hear it when it happens. It sounds terrible. Actually, it sounds terrible well before it will clip.

Give that amp a shot. Who knows, if your ported box was poorly designed, then the sealed might be just as loud. I personally think that the acoustics of the TL trunk work out very well for that corner box.

If you need more sound, take the stock sub out and remove the upper trunk liner for a quick upgrade.

 

Mmmmm...FI Q! Nice

Any pics of that setup? How is the output?...I know it's a very good SQ driver but I hear it can hold its own

 

I forgot to mention that I do use poly in my boxes.

I will get some pics tomorrow when it is light.

Yes, it does very well. You can search for what people get out of a Q in competitions. Some people get over 150 on a single 12 and drop over 3K to one - this is not uncommon for the indie brands and FI is not alone here. I think that FI overcame the high-Q problem the best with the Q, so that is why I use them in sealed applications where they have great SQ and can beat all-but-the-best ported setups in SPL. I don't know, or care, about my db reading, but I can rattle coffee out of a starbucks cup that is half full with the lid on... and it sounds good.

If you are ever in KC, come by for a listen. Ironically, I drove to Norman to buy my Red TL.

 

Haha that is ironic. Small world! Well if your ever down here buyin another I'd love to hear that! Where did you get your box?