yea dude we were all n00bs at one point, and this forum was in infancy at one point and took years to grow a large knowledge base.

There is a huge difference in what we're talking about being a n00b then vs. now, though, because now we have a huge compilation of data available to those who search for it. When we were n00bs, the resources weren't necessarily as readily available. The forum has evolved over time, though, and anyone registering in the year 2013 should be able to find 98% of the answers they seek in regards to the 3G TL. A forum exists as a historical point of data reference, as well as a place for new ideas to be expressed, and new information to be compiled.

again it isn't about being a n00b or not - it's about how to properly leverage the tools that are available to you. Sadly, most people today don't really care about proper leverage - they just want the shortest path to instant gratification on their terms, even though they are essentially coming to a 3rd party for help (the forum). I don't play well with that idea.

and this is why I don't moderate forums, because I'd be waving my ban stick around at all the n00bs, like this guy:

 

I support the admins is trying to execute censorship controls. Members have a right to post a question no matter what but if fellow members don't have the time or interest or knowledge thats totally OK.

But lets not be RUDE to fellow members, not everyone is tech savvy and not everyone knows how to use a wrench.

 

^^^^ Good points, but some noobs don't know what tools are available to them on AcuraZine.


I know I didn't when I first joined.

 

No one does! That's why you're a newbie!

I think the landing page idea is a good one. And I'd be more then willing to help make it look pretty and logical.

 

ehhhhhh, maybe.

Obviously our 3G Garage is a great example of a centralized place for tons of info, however, I would also agree that it perhaps isn't obvious. It's still very important that it's there, but I don't think anyone would question that not everyone will see it.

Search, however, isn't a matter of people not knowing about it. Anyone who develops websites in the year 2013 can tell you that it is well-documented that people expect Search functionality on most websites.

I can look at any one of my old eCommerce clients' traffic and search history and tons of people search.

Search has become part of the every day use of a computer, and we are fast approaching an age where you can no longer use the excuse of "well not everyone uses a computer or has access to one so they aren't that savvy".

Amazon.com - you see how many people shop there? Search. Everyone uses search.

The major difference is that in a forum, people have the ability to post whatever question they have, whereas at an online store, you don't have that open forum. You actually have to, you know, put forth effort to find what you want.

Many people know there is a search tool, I can unequivocally say that the average new registrant knows about Search. They just actively choose not to use it because it involves more effort than the freedom they are afforded to just post whatever the hell they want. They think they will get a better answer if it's personal and tailor-made just for exactly how they word their questions. They don't want to spend any extra time to find the info they need by searching, but yet they expect others to take time out of their day and get defensive when people come on their threads and take a dump on them for wasting other people's time rehashing information.

I can assure you that the entire landscape of website usage is changing and users are evolving, and there are certain expectations that people have when going to any website in this day and age. One of those is that there is a "Search" function present. Crazy, i know, but many people even know where on a typical webpage to look for a Search field/button.

My point is - they know that the Search functionality is there. People just actively choose to ignore it because again, they have the "me me me" attitude and would rather custom tailor a question in the hopes someone will directly give them an answer without them having to put forth any effort to search.

 

I agree with Newbie thread on top of the 3G section. You know sticky threads.

and link to that page should be sent to new members.
Mentioning simple rules and such or searching + saying first rule of the AZclub is, you do not talk about creating a thread before searching

 

I was going to start a new thread on this... But to summarize some of the good ideas here (as a newer guy), when someone joins could we send them simple instructions that:

1. Requires them the read the rules (they receive a link when they register)

2. Requires them to visit the 3G Garage (send link)

3. Instructs them that their first 50 posts should be limited to commenting on existing threads (some new folks think they have to start threads for them to count toward their initial minimum post count. This "first thread privilege" limit would be good for the community, and protect the new person from being flamed. We require a minimum post count for posting pictures, why not for starting new threads?

4. Advise them that "search is your friend" and to always practice "safe search" before starting a new thread.

Love Acurazine!

(PS, I dare you to watch I Hate Cars' video all the way through without laughing till you cry:

 

Acurazine is an amazing resource and community but I have to agree with the notion that more and more threads on well covered topics diminishes the value of the site somewhat. And while I absolutely agree that bashing folks that start new threads on well covered topics is not acceptable I do think a gentle nudge reminding them to search while also providing links to other similar threads is correct and more useful in the long run. I also think it would be beneficial to have the mods close such threads once cross links have been posted so that we don't keep going over and over the same things.

One down side of such an approach is it may lead to new posts in long dead threads (another area people get "dissed" over). Yes, there may be no more the planet we can learn about motor oil, GM MTF, timing belt aging, moleskin, octane, etc. but we can have less segmentation over where it's stored...even if it's lopped onto old crusty threads.

I fully understand that most people are never going to realize the glory of Googling "site:tl.acurazine.com <search words>" but that's no excuse to let lazy folk pollute what's been built. I think it's fair to call non-searchers lazy in this day in age. i_love_cars calls it "me me me" which is also correct.

 

I agree with danny but there are 2 things I do not agree with...

1) Not everyone who joins will be here for the 3G TL, we can't send every member that because it's not relevant, obviously. There is no way of knowing a new member's car or what they are here for.

2) 50 posts is a bit much...15 is fair, it forces them to do some searching before making a new thread but is low enough to actually keep them around. If they had to get to 50, they may just say screw it and never post.

Also, since we're on 3G Garage topic...it should be more apparent that new members can post photos I've seen a lot of newbies say "I have to wait 5 days".

no, make the rules say that they can use Flickr or the likes.

 

110% this.

 

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/bought-acura-tl-2008-base-885530/

 

Thats why I had the idea of aggregating service threads and separating them by model in a single thread, so that's not a problem.

 

 

If newbies would actually take the time and research to get an idea on what they are trying to do or how things work; maybe they wouldnt get flame so bad ? Yes we were all noobs before and most of us dont know how to use this site to its fullest, not like we need to because I can guarantee must people dont even know how to fully use their smart phones either, people know ow to navigate through their facebook, twitter, ebay, etc; then they should know the fundamentals on how to search on a form. I would go more into this but no need since he has already stated everything I was going to say.

Hope I type this right damn big hands and tiny s3 buttons

 

I'm still a total newb, but when I joined the site, I saw a bunch of threads of people getting flamed for not searching and expecting to be spoon fed on their terms. After browsing a bit, I quickly realized that I have stepped into a very valuable place and I absolutely wanted to earn the respect of the experienced members, so I created threads with high discretion and tried (and still do) to be very careful with my posts. In a way, seeing other people get bashed made me a more productive member on the site because I didn't want to be made an example of. Hahaha!

A newb thread would have been awesome! Something to set me off in the right direction to use the site as effectively as possible and not annoy all you great people.

 

Guys......this is VERY simple.


Point out the Search Engine on AcuraZine....

Point out that a Google Search might be better....

Be positive and don't flame....end of story.




I've modified the title of the 3G Garage so it's more easily identifiable as such.

I've done the same for the Newbies-please read this thread first Sticky.

Some of you seem to forget when you were new....I had NEVER participated on a Community Forum like this before joining AcuraZine! I had no clue as to what I was getting in to. But I did have the common sense to sit back and watch what was going on here before posting a lot.

 

Since everyone is getting so many thanks in this thread, can I get some thanks?

on a side note, a lot of the links in the 3G garage don't work

 

FYI. When I joined, I ignored the 3G garage because I thought it was a collection of picture of other people TL's or something. I had no clue as to what it was. After someone suggested I check it out I was like holy cow where has this been for the last three months?

 

Dannyz has sent me 3G Garage updates. I have not gotten to them. I will try to do so right away for you guys.

 

Just throwing this out there regarding the search function.

Maybe a mod could stick a post (or find another way) that says to type your question into google +acurazine instead of using the search feature on the forum because it's not very good. Kind of like how Apple did with their Apple Maps. They knew it sucked and recommended their competitors map apps.

That way it would make it easier for the new guys to find what they're looking for. Because sometimes they might actually search, but because of the not so good search feature on the forum they don't find what they're looking for thus making new threads on topics that have already been discussed.

 

Get with it...I need to change my oil and what brand do you recommend?


Im guessing that most people (with the exception of Justin and Austin ) come here when in need of info/details (aka, in a hurry). therefore, posting a thread because their initial search didn't turn up the info they were looking for. It took me a few months before I became familiar navigating the site.

 

funny thing is when I first discover Azine was through google, I was typing asking some thing on google search bar and it bring me directly into Azine thread, I personally think google search bar is way better than our forum search function, for me if you don't like what you see or heard simply don't have to waste your time and energy to response to it. I try to steer away from thread fill with opinion such as OP looking to buy a replacement for the TL, after all its their money, car and time so people don't have to be so rude about persuade someone to buy another TL instead they can buy whatever they wanted. Same thing goes with modding their ride comment such as "rice" should left out the thread.

 

It's frustrating to search for something only to come across numerous dead-end threads with members (rather than a moderator) scolding others to search. Can the mods not lock the thread and paste links to the relevant threads? I'm also noticing people getting jumped on for bumping old threads even though they're asking for updates on a particular issue. Do we really need to create a brand new thread rather than post in an older thread? Just my

Jon

 

My favorite part of using the search function here is finding a bunch of threads with a few replies telling the OP to do a search.

I would suggest this: If the search function is so dependable that you can recommend it in lieu of literally any advice whatsoever, why not post a link to a good search result?

My second favorite thing is when someone uses the search and then gets chastised for reviving an old thread. I thought you didn't want them to start new threads?

 

I'm 100% behind ggesq and Steven. Poking fun among friends is one thing, but total strangers that are just asking for help/advise is not cool. Like what was mentioned, we were all noobs at one point.........

 

It's literally that simple.... If you don't want to do that, then just don't open the thread. If they are asking for something that just requires them to search, then just let them know that. Then the thread will die after a few posts.

If there were tens of threads daily asking the same question, then I could understand the frustration. But flaming for asking an obvious question doesn't stop the threads, nor does it help the person. If anything it will make them not want to return because of the immaturity/lack of help.

 

Oh boy...

I haven't been here for too long, and I don't post terribly often (I don't have the kind of wealth of personal, in-depth knowledge about my TL, which is why I just read and read and read on this forum instead of posting anything).

Being one of those people that does start threads occasionally when I have a question, and uses the search function because I feel like I know so little compared to so many of you, I can tell you- the search function is TEDIOUS at best.

I agree with the statements that yes, people should still be searching. Even MORE I agree with the idea that if people are so tired of these kinds of threads, they should be the example, use the search function and post the links for the appropriate threads. If you want people to value the search function, get smarter, and stick around on AZ, the last thing you want to do is tell them to screw themselves and bash on them.

And it's not a matter of "growing a thick skin"- it's the internet, you already have to grow a thick skin to even consider posting something like that and asking questions of strangers. This is a matter of just common decency. Maybe it's just me, but if someone asked me a question in person, I wouldn't tell them "why didn't you google it? You suck". I would pull out my phone, take a few seconds and find out myself if I didn't know the answer, and give them the answer (if it's a short one), or if it's a longer answer, I'd point them in the direction they need to find what they're looking for. I would like to think that behavior on the internet, even if it's anonymous and behind a computer screen, should be no different in terms of respect and just being cool about it by being helpful.

One last thing (which I mentioned before): the search function. It's difficult to use, because

1) if I want something 3G TL specific, I need to use the advanced search options. If someone's not tech-savvy, or new to using forums, etc, it can have a steep learning curve figuring out how to filter results.

2) you have to consider every possible way the question could be asked. How would you describe that part that looks like a backwards S, but is made of black plasticky-rubber stuff? Good luck trying to figure that out, especially since the point of you searching is to find out the name of the part in the first place so you can then ask how to fix it.

Every time I have started threads on this forum, it's been because I have pored through every thread in the results, looking even just for ONE mention of what I'm talking about. Most threads are a dead-end, a lot end in "use the search function", and others go unanswered. Only then do I start a thread, but that's just me- a lot of people don't have the time, or patience, to look through every thread like that. The best thing you can do is point the person in the right direction with a link, or just answer their question, and kindly remind them of the specific ways to find that kind of information in the future. That will do more to help the community grow, create higher-quality posts and make people feel welcome. The alternative--going off like a time bomb on everyone that asks already-answered questions--will turn AZ into a small group of crabby people who managed to scare off everyone else.

One love. And not to kiss up, but thank you, mods and admins, for your concern, for the work you do (which is 99% behind the scenes), and for even giving us a place to discuss these kinds of things. Because this forum even exists (and I can use it for free, day in and day out), my car continues to work great almost a decade after it was built, and I've felt empowered to learn more about it and work on it myself. Honestly, without this forum, and the opportunity to interact with thousands of others on here, my car wouldn't be where it is today. And for that, I am grateful.

 

Only thing i hate about giving new members a post count is that one day all of a sudden you will have 50 yr old threads pop up with said new member saying "cool" or "yada yada yada" just to get their minimum post count. Then again when a noob does use the search and they ask a legit question like "hey did you ever get your issue fixed?" they still get flamed for bumping an old thread. So its a lose lose situation.

Eventually the way this forum is heading, its starting to get like the honda-tech forums.

 

Give incentives to legitimately revive a thread older than a certain date. Scavenge the database for superfluous threads that are useless.

 

Can you explain a little more in detail why you feel that way?

 

On the HT forums most people only cared and looked out for themselves. Many of those members get new vehicles and move onto different forums and bring those same habits with them. Now I'm not saying everyone here is like that but you will see it here and there. Its a domino effect here, New member #1 joins --> told to search and gets the toss around. Member #1 is here for a few months then new member #2 joins, ask a question and #1 replies with "had to search and get my own answers and you have to do the same". So eventually who does #2 work for? lol he just does what #1 says and repeats to #3,

Now there are those who are willing to help. Hopefully we all help out a little more. I think most members should put a link to the garage in there sigs.

 

Ive noticed a lot of the other forums have a bazillion stickies at the top of each sub forum pertaining to the most frequently asked questions to keep the n00bs at bay.

 

We have stickies at the top too...

 

A few more thoughts after seeing some more responses on page 2 here.

1) in the Performance section, I have actually seen people like Justin post links from searches often enough when people come on and say "searched but couldn't find X"

i've seen people post search results that seemed easy in other sections too, but i just frequent the Performance section more than any other so i notice it more.

2) I'm seeing people respond here talking about how they find a lot of garbage threads in the search results - basically just validating my point about dilution of the quality of threads, lol.

on that note - searches would be much better if people didn't create so many bogus threads which takes a toll on the search engine - sadly out-of-the-box forum search engines don't perform like Google.

3) I have always been able to find what I need through searching. And if I haven't been able to find EXACTLY the info I need, I definitely found enough information to basically get myself 90% of the way there, and then post about it and iterate on what I already found to get help for the last 10%.

Here are several scenarios of my successful usage of search on Acurazine:

a) lightweight wheels, CBP wheels - found oodles of info on specs, and then I just PM'ed some of our members that had the wheels I wanted to verify the specs I saw them talking about. - On that note I found very few photos of CBP with wheels, much less the wheels I was buying, so as soon as I got them on i posted some pics with an appropriate thread title to hopefully give someone else searching for CBP wheels a viable option.

b) When I needed to read up on the 105k maint - readily found the DIY thread

c) When I wanted to debadge - where do you think I learned about the 3M Eraser wheel?

d) Milwaukee fender rolling - how do you think i learned about Project 2 Customs?

e) <insert any performance mod you can think of>

f) preventing transmission failure, what ATF to use -> this led me to threads that also enlightened me to the pressure switches for my '05 TL

g) The fact that the clutch delays engagement on hard shifts - i was able to find Opel's thread on the clutch slave cylinder check valve removal

I mean the list goes on and every one of those took me 5-10 minutes to find good information on. I looked at a handful of threads, skimmed through them to see how meaty the posts were. If I open a thread and see a bunch of one-liner responses, then I immediately go back to search results because I know that thread is a baddie.

Honestly the only way I can see people not finding what they are looking for with even minimal effort would be with thread dilution where you get an overload of "use search n00b" threads, which sadly is just getting worse over time.

 

My feeling is that more and more people are coming to forums to vent frustration, by being mean to strangers. It safer than doing so in person and works relatively well to anger many people. I came to AZ to learn, but have remained because I like to answer questions about something I am very passionate about and find joy in assisting others with. Wether they be fiends of mine or a complete stranger on the forum, I have never understood flaming people for asking questions regardless of wether the topic has been beat to death. I think a YouTube tutorial for new members would be helpful in acclimating them to the forum and how to get the most out it.

I want to thank the mods for bring this up as it has angered me many times to see a new member mistreated and have a bunch of other members join in for no purpose other than vent frustrations that have no place in a car forum.

 

Why aren't the noob threads simply deleted after a few days (or weeks)?

I'm talking about the threads where a new member (or any member) asks a question that has been answered multiple times. The replies are the same; search, or maybe a helpful link here and there. A mod comes in and locks the thread.

Why not delete that thread after a week or so? It'll clean up the results for those that do search.

 

so, we can agree that 5w-20 the best oil for our cars?

Anyways, good post but im too much of a noob to do any of these mods myself so I just dont even say anything.

 

Unfortunately, they're not effective. If they were, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

They may seem effective to those who use this forum daily, but there's a loss of perspective at work there.

Throwing out an idea: Do away with the Garage. It's full of holes and dead links, it fails to prioritize information, it relies too heavily on users being proficient with both their browser and the forum (They're not), and its purpose isn't immediately obvious enough. Replace instead with several stickies covering broad categories. For example, FAQ threads for Engine, Suspension, Body, Interior, Lights, etc. You'll end up with a stack of stickies at the top of the forum, but most big forums have those.

The issue is the content being fed into the search, not the engine itself. vB has a perfectly serviceable search function, and it works brilliantly on most forums. But here it turns up a bunch of bunk, and in my reading it's been coming from regulars dismissing repeat questions that hit all the right keywords. Other forums simply answer those questions, even if they're being asked for the millionth time. If it's that painful, use canned responses.

If you don't want to do that, then the moderating team needs to delete or merge those threads rather than let them poison search results.

 

I feel like the biggest issue is that with how old the car is now, the most useful threads are buried and who really wants to read something 6-7 years old? Info is still good of course, but I'm sure there is a lot of that going through people's heads.

 

If I've learned one thing working at a college it's that 'Signs are for other people.'