Will You Buy A Supercharger...adds 40 To 60 More Hp
03-08-2005 | 08:05 PM
#81
Blown LS6!!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,993
Likes: 0
From: Bellevue, WA
Originally Posted by longdrive
40 HP...is that it?? For $5,000.....that certainly does not warrant that price tag! A properly tune SC should yield at least 30% gain. I have an ATI on my 01 Corvette that dyno's at 475hp at 6psi boost for $7,500. Also, there are reliability and warranty issues that you enter into once you SC. I would also question putting any more power to a TL b/c of excessive torque steer on a FWD vehicles. Especially those with the 6 spd.
I do not think I would be comfortable with my TL having more power unless it was all-weel-drive
I do not think I would be comfortable with my TL having more power unless it was all-weel-drive
For the last time, the S/C costs about $3600 + install. Have you read any of the responses to the "issues" you just presented? You've taken us back 2 pages in the posts...
Our cars dyno approximately 200whp stock. Therefore, 40 WHP is a 20% gain over stock (@3.5psi). Add a smaller pulley for $75 (now @5.5psi) and get another 30 ponies at the wheels without having to change anything else. That's 70, or a 35% gain over stock. MrSteve actually dynos 295 at the wheels with the new pulley for a 47% gain over stock. My car didn't respond quite as well so I'm probably around a 40% gain. Neither of our cars have been tuned w/ electronics yet either. An intercooler and emanage allows you to run 8-9psi for dyno-proven 350whp. This is all possible under the $7k price tag you've claimed. Would I rather have your Vette w/ the ATI? Yep, sure would. But why does everyone think it's a waste to do it to the CL/TL? Please don't yell torque steer again, cuz those of us w/ the blower don't have it.
03-08-2005 | 09:45 PM
#82
Cruisin'
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Seattle Cl-S
For the last time, the S/C costs about $3600 + install. Have you read any of the responses to the "issues" you just presented? You've taken us back 2 pages in the posts...
Our cars dyno approximately 200whp stock. Therefore, 40 WHP is a 20% gain over stock (@3.5psi). Add a smaller pulley for $75 (now @5.5psi) and get another 30 ponies at the wheels without having to change anything else. That's 70, or a 35% gain over stock. MrSteve actually dynos 295 at the wheels with the new pulley for a 47% gain over stock. My car didn't respond quite as well so I'm probably around a 40% gain. Neither of our cars have been tuned w/ electronics yet either. An intercooler and emanage allows you to run 8-9psi for dyno-proven 350whp. This is all possible under the $7k price tag you've claimed. Would I rather have your Vette w/ the ATI? Yep, sure would. But why does everyone think it's a waste to do it to the CL/TL? Please don't yell torque steer again, cuz those of us w/ the blower don't have it.
Our cars dyno approximately 200whp stock. Therefore, 40 WHP is a 20% gain over stock (@3.5psi). Add a smaller pulley for $75 (now @5.5psi) and get another 30 ponies at the wheels without having to change anything else. That's 70, or a 35% gain over stock. MrSteve actually dynos 295 at the wheels with the new pulley for a 47% gain over stock. My car didn't respond quite as well so I'm probably around a 40% gain. Neither of our cars have been tuned w/ electronics yet either. An intercooler and emanage allows you to run 8-9psi for dyno-proven 350whp. This is all possible under the $7k price tag you've claimed. Would I rather have your Vette w/ the ATI? Yep, sure would. But why does everyone think it's a waste to do it to the CL/TL? Please don't yell torque steer again, cuz those of us w/ the blower don't have it.
Torque steer?
Try going into a hair pin turn at 30+ under power in a FWD car and then do the same in a RWD car, once you crest the apex you will know what under / over steer is all about. Steering is a inherent problem with all FWD vehicles when you are pushing them to their limits....that is why all serious performance cars are all RWD or AWD. At 300HP you may not experience any noticable issues under moderate driving.....but push the car a little harder and you have a differenct story. This is also why you do not see many cars past the 270HP range with FWD
03-08-2005 | 10:07 PM
#83
WDP Director of R & D
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,940
Likes: 4
From: Texas
Originally Posted by Seattle Cl-S
Just give up MrSteve. Those who want it will get it. Those who don't will tell everyone else it's silly. All I know is I don't feel so silly running a 13.4@105 and showing STI's, SRT's, 350Z's, Stangs, and a whole lot of other cars my taillights!
Best comment to date...
MrSteve,
Big picture here is the cost and/or what a person purchased the TL for. Some of your points are valid, some aren't - and I say that based on "experience" even though you may not accept that.. But it is a fact, I was building and racing SC'ed - 671 blown, NOS'ed big and small block chevy's etc. well before you were out of diapers.... On the other hand I would admit your definitely more familiar with the current CompTech SC setups than I.
Truth be told,,,, if my TL was a "toy" for me and not my commute and secondary family vehicle, I would love to try a Comp SC. Of course my next issue would still be the wifes discust at me spending "up to $5K" for more HP...
--My last "toy" had 700+ HP so in my mind, being the life long motorhead that I am, one can never have too much HP...
Cheers
03-08-2005 | 10:47 PM
#85
Cruisin'
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by mrsteve
I give up.
I invite an DC Metro area member to take a ride in my car in the twistys. Shit if I like you I might even let you drive it.
I am not really concerned about reliability since this is a conservative application at 5psi...I was wondering about the warranty but those questions will go directly to the dealer
03-09-2005 | 09:03 AM
#86
Tischer Acura installed it. Although, the kit must be purchased through them for them to do the install. Otherwise Comptech will not re-imburse them for any trouble shooting because Comptech won't know if the kit is used, etc. Tischer is very good about pricing too.
Also, another member had his Comptech supercharger and custom intercooler pushing 8-9psi of boost for 15k miles. When he took it all off prior to selling the car he did a compression check on all 6 cylinders and the compression was ideal for a brand new engine. 4-5psi on the "stock" kit is nothing these motors can't handle.
Also, another member had his Comptech supercharger and custom intercooler pushing 8-9psi of boost for 15k miles. When he took it all off prior to selling the car he did a compression check on all 6 cylinders and the compression was ideal for a brand new engine. 4-5psi on the "stock" kit is nothing these motors can't handle.
03-09-2005 | 09:14 AM
#87
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,581
Likes: 3
15 K is just a year's worth of driving and who knows how the car was driven. If it was a 3G model I would be a bit concerned since they are already pushing 11:1 compression. I recall the cars that came from the factory with a turbo in the 80s having have a much lower compression since there was about an 8 pound turbo boost. And those engines were made with stronger crank journals since they were meant to be used with a turbo. They later boosted to about 12 pounds with an intercooler. Those engines had a larger oil pan capacity as well since the engine ran hotter and oil is also use to cool as well as lubricate.
Hard to say how a 3.2 would fair with a super charger after let's say 70,000 miles... How would the clutch and tranny fair? There is a lot of questions and not just the engine when you start bolting on 20% more power like that.
Hard to say how a 3.2 would fair with a super charger after let's say 70,000 miles... How would the clutch and tranny fair? There is a lot of questions and not just the engine when you start bolting on 20% more power like that.
03-09-2005 | 09:42 AM
#88
This is getting ridiculous...There are supercharged CL's running around with over 40k miles on the blower with zero problems. You totally can't compare Chrysler cars from the 80's that came with factory turbos to the J32. You just CAN'T. Apples to oranges.
You guys are just looking at numbers.... oh no! 11.0:1 Compression! The S2000 runs 11.5:1 and boosts 6psi without an intercooler. Do you really think Honda/Acura would have the relationship they do with Comptech if the Comptech product severely shortened the life of the car?
Out of all the kits sold to members on Acurazine NONE have an internal motor problems unless the wrong spark plugs were installed and that was only 1 car on a used blower.
People with the supercharger drive their cars hard, otherwise they wouldn't spend the money for the addtional horsepower. There's turbo CL-S pushing 500 crank horsepower with NO internal problems. No clutch problems!.
Is there additional wear on the engine internals with the supercharger?
Is it enough to lower the life of the engine to the point where it is a concern?
If after 15k miles on a supercharged CL-S the engine still showed the same compression as a car off the showroom did, I don't see how there is anything to worry about. Do you want to keep your car beyond 150k miles? Then maybe the supercharger isn't for you because yes the increase in IAT and pressure within the manifold will cause wear, you can't dispute that. But it isn't enough to matter to most people.
You guys are just looking at numbers.... oh no! 11.0:1 Compression! The S2000 runs 11.5:1 and boosts 6psi without an intercooler. Do you really think Honda/Acura would have the relationship they do with Comptech if the Comptech product severely shortened the life of the car?
Out of all the kits sold to members on Acurazine NONE have an internal motor problems unless the wrong spark plugs were installed and that was only 1 car on a used blower.
People with the supercharger drive their cars hard, otherwise they wouldn't spend the money for the addtional horsepower. There's turbo CL-S pushing 500 crank horsepower with NO internal problems. No clutch problems!.
Is there additional wear on the engine internals with the supercharger?
Is it enough to lower the life of the engine to the point where it is a concern?
If after 15k miles on a supercharged CL-S the engine still showed the same compression as a car off the showroom did, I don't see how there is anything to worry about. Do you want to keep your car beyond 150k miles? Then maybe the supercharger isn't for you because yes the increase in IAT and pressure within the manifold will cause wear, you can't dispute that. But it isn't enough to matter to most people.
03-09-2005 | 10:06 AM
#89
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,581
Likes: 3
Also depends on what is important to a person. If you are going to a strip all the time and want the added power than that is your bag. All depends where your concern about breakage is .. If you have none, you accept any risks associated with trying to get the best time... I do not agree with the roughly 90% increase in H-power with no problems.. That's funny... Maybe not for a little while. I do not believe acura over engineered their cars to that point...
Even the VQ engine which is a better engine than the 3.2 has been tested where the internals of that engine can reliably withstand the stress of 450 hp. The tranny... I doubt it...!
As for implying you can get 150,000 miles out of a super charged car by running one for 15k is insane from QA and testing perspective. Who here wants to do that... wait for a 5K break in and then bolt one on for 145,000 miles... Hell the 2g tranny was crap and that couldn't take the 232 torque at 3500 RPMs. I would like to see what kind of torque is being created with the SC and see how the trannies fare...
I also would not buy a used car that had a SC on it... The compression test is one thing, but there are other aspects to be concerned with. If it is your hobby to buy a new car stock and then add thousands of dollors worht of hp adding aftermarket parts that is fine ... that is how you want to play with your cake.
Run a SC on a car for 80,000 miles and get back to us. We can compare aggressive driving styles from two vehicles one non SC'd and one with a SC. Same oil change intervals, etc...
For me I am fine with changing intakes and exhaust to optimize the stock configuration output.
Even the VQ engine which is a better engine than the 3.2 has been tested where the internals of that engine can reliably withstand the stress of 450 hp. The tranny... I doubt it...!
As for implying you can get 150,000 miles out of a super charged car by running one for 15k is insane from QA and testing perspective. Who here wants to do that... wait for a 5K break in and then bolt one on for 145,000 miles... Hell the 2g tranny was crap and that couldn't take the 232 torque at 3500 RPMs. I would like to see what kind of torque is being created with the SC and see how the trannies fare...
I also would not buy a used car that had a SC on it... The compression test is one thing, but there are other aspects to be concerned with. If it is your hobby to buy a new car stock and then add thousands of dollors worht of hp adding aftermarket parts that is fine ... that is how you want to play with your cake.
Run a SC on a car for 80,000 miles and get back to us. We can compare aggressive driving styles from two vehicles one non SC'd and one with a SC. Same oil change intervals, etc...
For me I am fine with changing intakes and exhaust to optimize the stock configuration output.
03-09-2005 | 10:59 AM
#90
Originally Posted by mickey3c
Also depends on what is important to a person. If you are going to a strip all the time and want the added power than that is your bag. All depends where your concern about breakage is .. If you have none, you accept any risks associated with trying to get the best time... I do not agree with the roughly 90% increase in H-power with no problems.. That's funny... Maybe not for a little while. I do not believe acura over engineered their cars to that point...
I'm not saying the S/C'er is for everyone. Yes of course with this increase in horsepower you do run the risk of breaking something etc as the car was not designed for this application. Remember, I am running nearly twice the amount of boost as the base kit which adds a relatively mild increase (when compared to the higher boost pulley) and shouldn't produce any long term ill effects (3-4psi of boost is nothing).
Even the VQ engine which is a better engine than the 3.2 has been tested where the internals of that engine can reliably withstand the stress of 450 hp. The tranny... I doubt it...!
Nissan's VQ is better in that it makes more torque in stock trim, but i've seen a hell of a lot more blown-up VQ's than I have J32's. The connecting rods on the VQ are junk.
As for implying you can get 150,000 miles out of a super charged car by running one for 15k is insane from QA and testing perspective. Who here wants to do that... wait for a 5K break in and then bolt one on for 145,000 miles... Hell the 2g tranny was crap and that couldn't take the 232 torque at 3500 RPMs. I would like to see what kind of torque is being created with the SC and see how the trannies fare...
[IMG]You read into my "150k" statement too much. I'm not saying the S/C'ed motor will definitely last to 150k. What I meant was if you planned on keeping your car for a long time the S/C'er might not be in your best interest because it will eventually wear on the engine. By how much is unkown. BUT the fact that a CL-S was running 8-9psi (double the boost of the base kit) and had virtually no change in compression and never had a lean condition is a pretty big stamp of approval in my book. If the motor held up that well for 15k miles at double the intended output think of how well things would look at the stock 3-4psi of boost.
Oh and the transmission issue is a dead horse. My transmission failed when the car was stock. Now i've added 100whp and zero problems thus far. The transmission failures are hit or miss.[/IMG]
I also would not buy a used car that had a SC on it... The compression test is one thing, but there are other aspects to be concerned with. If it is your hobby to buy a new car stock and then add thousands of dollors worht of hp adding aftermarket parts that is fine ... that is how you want to play with your cake.
Unless I bought the car from someone I knew I wouldn't want ANY mods on the car when I purchased it. The benefit of the Comptech kit is that it truely is "bolt-on." You could return the car to stock trim in a day and the dealership where you were trading it in or the new private buyer wouldn't even know.
Run a SC on a car for 80,000 miles and get back to us. We can compare aggressive driving styles from two vehicles one non SC'd and one with a SC. Same oil change intervals, etc...
I probably won't keep the car for another 65,000 miles just because i'll feel the need to upgrade to something new. So that data might have to come from someone else
For me I am fine with changing intakes and exhaust to optimize the stock configuration output.
And that is fine, I'm not trying to impose the S/C'er on you like you MUST buy it. I'm just trying to clear up the half-truths that were running rampid in this thread before I saw it.
I'm not saying the S/C'er is for everyone. Yes of course with this increase in horsepower you do run the risk of breaking something etc as the car was not designed for this application. Remember, I am running nearly twice the amount of boost as the base kit which adds a relatively mild increase (when compared to the higher boost pulley) and shouldn't produce any long term ill effects (3-4psi of boost is nothing).
Even the VQ engine which is a better engine than the 3.2 has been tested where the internals of that engine can reliably withstand the stress of 450 hp. The tranny... I doubt it...!
Nissan's VQ is better in that it makes more torque in stock trim, but i've seen a hell of a lot more blown-up VQ's than I have J32's. The connecting rods on the VQ are junk.
As for implying you can get 150,000 miles out of a super charged car by running one for 15k is insane from QA and testing perspective. Who here wants to do that... wait for a 5K break in and then bolt one on for 145,000 miles... Hell the 2g tranny was crap and that couldn't take the 232 torque at 3500 RPMs. I would like to see what kind of torque is being created with the SC and see how the trannies fare...
[IMG]You read into my "150k" statement too much. I'm not saying the S/C'ed motor will definitely last to 150k. What I meant was if you planned on keeping your car for a long time the S/C'er might not be in your best interest because it will eventually wear on the engine. By how much is unkown. BUT the fact that a CL-S was running 8-9psi (double the boost of the base kit) and had virtually no change in compression and never had a lean condition is a pretty big stamp of approval in my book. If the motor held up that well for 15k miles at double the intended output think of how well things would look at the stock 3-4psi of boost.
Oh and the transmission issue is a dead horse. My transmission failed when the car was stock. Now i've added 100whp and zero problems thus far. The transmission failures are hit or miss.[/IMG]
I also would not buy a used car that had a SC on it... The compression test is one thing, but there are other aspects to be concerned with. If it is your hobby to buy a new car stock and then add thousands of dollors worht of hp adding aftermarket parts that is fine ... that is how you want to play with your cake.
Unless I bought the car from someone I knew I wouldn't want ANY mods on the car when I purchased it. The benefit of the Comptech kit is that it truely is "bolt-on." You could return the car to stock trim in a day and the dealership where you were trading it in or the new private buyer wouldn't even know.
Run a SC on a car for 80,000 miles and get back to us. We can compare aggressive driving styles from two vehicles one non SC'd and one with a SC. Same oil change intervals, etc...
I probably won't keep the car for another 65,000 miles just because i'll feel the need to upgrade to something new. So that data might have to come from someone else
For me I am fine with changing intakes and exhaust to optimize the stock configuration output.
And that is fine, I'm not trying to impose the S/C'er on you like you MUST buy it. I'm just trying to clear up the half-truths that were running rampid in this thread before I saw it.
03-09-2005 | 11:02 AM
#91
Disturbin' The Peace!
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 204
Likes: 0
From: Utah
Originally Posted by JetJock
I didn't say the engine couldn't "take-it", I said the car wasn't designed for this much power. It's FWD, and currently pushing the limit's of torque steer. The engine might take it, but the suspension certainly isn't designed for this kind of power unless you're drag racing in a straignt line...any kind of turning is going to be be hard to handle with that much torque steer. Get a AWD or RWD car if you want to play. You're just asking for trouble. Besides, with the compression ratio of our engine, a supercharger isn't the smartest thing to do.
Actually, the C/R-Ratio isn't an issue. The Honda S2K has the same C/R-Ratio and Comptech pulled 360hp out of it with their S/C kit, header, & exhaust. The fact that it is FWD doesn't even begin to scare me away from more power, nor should it you or anyone else. It sounds like you've never been in a hi HP FWD car, and you just aren't sure how to handle the extra power.
03-09-2005 | 11:08 AM
#92
Disturbin' The Peace!
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 204
Likes: 0
From: Utah
Originally Posted by mrsteve
This is getting ridiculous...There are supercharged CL's running around with over 40k miles on the blower with zero problems. You totally can't compare Chrysler cars from the 80's that came with factory turbos to the J32. You just CAN'T. Apples to oranges.
You guys are just looking at numbers.... oh no! 11.0:1 Compression! The S2000 runs 11.5:1 and boosts 6psi without an intercooler. Do you really think Honda/Acura would have the relationship they do with Comptech if the Comptech product severely shortened the life of the car?
Out of all the kits sold to members on Acurazine NONE have an internal motor problems unless the wrong spark plugs were installed and that was only 1 car on a used blower.
People with the supercharger drive their cars hard, otherwise they wouldn't spend the money for the addtional horsepower. There's turbo CL-S pushing 500 crank horsepower with NO internal problems. No clutch problems!.
Is there additional wear on the engine internals with the supercharger?
Is it enough to lower the life of the engine to the point where it is a concern?
If after 15k miles on a supercharged CL-S the engine still showed the same compression as a car off the showroom did, I don't see how there is anything to worry about. Do you want to keep your car beyond 150k miles? Then maybe the supercharger isn't for you because yes the increase in IAT and pressure within the manifold will cause wear, you can't dispute that. But it isn't enough to matter to most people.
You guys are just looking at numbers.... oh no! 11.0:1 Compression! The S2000 runs 11.5:1 and boosts 6psi without an intercooler. Do you really think Honda/Acura would have the relationship they do with Comptech if the Comptech product severely shortened the life of the car?
Out of all the kits sold to members on Acurazine NONE have an internal motor problems unless the wrong spark plugs were installed and that was only 1 car on a used blower.
People with the supercharger drive their cars hard, otherwise they wouldn't spend the money for the addtional horsepower. There's turbo CL-S pushing 500 crank horsepower with NO internal problems. No clutch problems!.
Is there additional wear on the engine internals with the supercharger?
Is it enough to lower the life of the engine to the point where it is a concern?
If after 15k miles on a supercharged CL-S the engine still showed the same compression as a car off the showroom did, I don't see how there is anything to worry about. Do you want to keep your car beyond 150k miles? Then maybe the supercharger isn't for you because yes the increase in IAT and pressure within the manifold will cause wear, you can't dispute that. But it isn't enough to matter to most people.
I COULDN'T AGREE MORE! People shouldn't say anything until they have experienced it for themselves! Why do you think Honda has the reputation it does? For reliability, the ability to make gobs of HP, and still be driven everyday. I have buddys that are rolling in DC2 Integras (some are Type-R's, others are 400whp turbocharged beasts), EG chassis Civics with all kinds of swaps, and they drive them everyday. Heck, there is a guy here in SLC that has a 9.8second daily driven 93' Civic hatch. Hes run both Nitrous with boost and just boost alone on the same engine he built the first time around. And reliability has never been an issue.
03-09-2005 | 11:27 AM
#93
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,581
Likes: 3
I have seen hondas at the best and worst... 1st hand for over 20 years... And I do not care what people have to say about reliability etc. If you want to make gobs of power do it.. as I said and as people here plainly admit there is an impact. Not 40 hp maybe but 100% increases yea..lol I have known people to do it and then be pissed off that the design could not take it.. duh as long as you know the consequence of the mod... I am not talking comptech mods. Mant dealers infiniti annd acura still warranty the cars with those mods.
I am amazed how we go from 60 hp to 200 and the same rule applies no impact... same reliability... You are talking about an entirely different class of cars here with 10sec quarters... I go by a guy who drives a 10 second car to work all the time... lol he keeps asking what? since his hearing from that and the stereo are shot...
Yes I have been racing and have seen first hand what happens and how it happens... I do not think my W30 442 is an extention of my body though...LOL.
I am amazed how we go from 60 hp to 200 and the same rule applies no impact... same reliability... You are talking about an entirely different class of cars here with 10sec quarters... I go by a guy who drives a 10 second car to work all the time... lol he keeps asking what? since his hearing from that and the stereo are shot...
Yes I have been racing and have seen first hand what happens and how it happens... I do not think my W30 442 is an extention of my body though...LOL.
03-09-2005 | 11:36 AM
#94
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,071
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by 1FastVtec
I COULDN'T AGREE MORE! People shouldn't say anything until they have experienced it for themselves! Why do you think Honda has the reputation it does? For reliability, the ability to make gobs of HP, and still be driven everyday. I have buddys that are rolling in DC2 Integras (some are Type-R's, others are 400whp turbocharged beasts), EG chassis Civics with all kinds of swaps, and they drive them everyday. Heck, there is a guy here in SLC that has a 9.8second daily driven 93' Civic hatch. Hes run both Nitrous with boost and just boost alone on the same engine he built the first time around. And reliability has never been an issue.
03-09-2005 | 03:20 PM
#96
Originally Posted by EZZ
Just because a Civic is reliable doesn't make the TL reliable. Mr. Steve may have the best auto tranny in the world for the CLS, but ask the other people at the CLS site and some have gone through 6 trannies. The fact is that the 2nd gen auto tranny is complete crap and you play the odds every time you add FI. Look at objective data and you'll see that the 2nd gen TL/CL have average reliability. Just because its a Honda doesn't make indestructable.
If you take the percentage of S/C'er owners that have had failed transmissions and then compare that to those who are N/A and have had failed transmissions and you'll see that the percentage is quite similar if not lower for the S/C'ed owners (possibly based on the lower population) but you will find that there is NOT a substantial increase in transmission failures with the S/C'er like you are implying.
03-09-2005 | 03:28 PM
#97
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,071
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by mrsteve
If you take the percentage of S/C'er owners that have had failed transmissions and then compare that to those who are N/A and have had failed transmissions and you'll see that the percentage is quite similar if not lower for the S/C'ed owners (possibly based on the lower population) but you will find that there is NOT a substantial increase in transmission failures with the S/C'er like you are implying.
In all seriousness, I'm not implying that if you put FI, the tranny will automatically fail. I'm saying that without FI, the tranny is most likely going to fail because it is crap and that adding FI won't help the situation. If you want statistical accuracy, you should have a sample size of 25, 15 at the bare minimum. But this line of reasoning doesn't matter with the new TL because I honestly don't know if the auto tranny in that thing is at all similar to your 2nd gen. The new TL does present other problems like severe torque steer and higher compression ratio. There are plenty more 6-speeds also for this new generation so I hope that people do buy the s/c. Increased hp is always good.
03-09-2005 | 03:36 PM
#98
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,581
Likes: 3
OK everyone let's get NOS and a SC...
more stress on components results in more wear and more frequent failure.... All things being equal that is....
I think it it more rare that someone will shell out 5,000 for SC to begin with...
I think a ton of people already got mortgaged to the hilt with 7 year loans for a TL so they will not be shelling out the cake especially if they fear that it might increase their maintenance cost.. I can tell you how many sets of tires I burned off my other car...
more stress on components results in more wear and more frequent failure.... All things being equal that is....
I think it it more rare that someone will shell out 5,000 for SC to begin with...
I think a ton of people already got mortgaged to the hilt with 7 year loans for a TL so they will not be shelling out the cake especially if they fear that it might increase their maintenance cost.. I can tell you how many sets of tires I burned off my other car...
03-09-2005 | 04:59 PM
#99
Originally Posted by EZZ
There's like 5 of you guys out there In all seriousness, I'm not implying that if you put FI, the tranny will automatically fail. I'm saying that without FI, the tranny is most likely going to fail because it is crap and that adding FI won't help the situation. If you want statistical accuracy, you should have a sample size of 25, 15 at the bare minimum. But this line of reasoning doesn't matter with the new TL because I honestly don't know if the auto tranny in that thing is at all similar to your 2nd gen. The new TL does present other problems like severe torque steer and higher compression ratio. There are plenty more 6-speeds also for this new generation so I hope that people do buy the s/c. Increased hp is always good.
In all seriousness, I'm not implying that if you put FI, the tranny will automatically fail. I'm saying that without FI, the tranny is most likely going to fail because it is crap and that adding FI won't help the situation. If you want statistical accuracy, you should have a sample size of 25, 15 at the bare minimum. But this line of reasoning doesn't matter with the new TL because I honestly don't know if the auto tranny in that thing is at all similar to your 2nd gen. The new TL does present other problems like severe torque steer and higher compression ratio. There are plenty more 6-speeds also for this new generation so I hope that people do buy the s/c. Increased hp is always good.5??? Try 50
03-09-2005 | 05:23 PM
#100
Blown LS6!!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,993
Likes: 0
From: Bellevue, WA
Originally Posted by mickey3c
I think it it more rare that someone will shell out 5,000 for SC to begin with... I think a ton of people already got mortgaged to the hilt with 7 year loans for a TL so they will not be shelling out the cake especially if they fear that it might increase their maintenance cost.. I can tell you how many sets of tires I burned off my other car...
I think a ton of people already got mortgaged to the hilt with 7 year loans for a TL so they will not be shelling out the cake especially if they fear that it might increase their maintenance cost.. I can tell you how many sets of tires I burned off my other car...If someone had to get "mortgaged to the hilt" to purchase their car then they probably didn't make a very wise long-term financial decision in buying a car they couldn't afford. Not saying they don't deserve it, but they're just giving their money away to the bank in the form of interest.
03-09-2005 | 06:46 PM
#101
Blown LS6!!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,993
Likes: 0
From: Bellevue, WA
Originally Posted by longdrive
I thought $3,600 plus install ($800 - rigged to $1,400 - quality) = about $5,000
Torque steer?
Try going into a hair pin turn at 30+ under power in a FWD car and then do the same in a RWD car, once you crest the apex you will know what under / over steer is all about. Steering is a inherent problem with all FWD vehicles when you are pushing them to their limits....that is why all serious performance cars are all RWD or AWD. At 300HP you may not experience any noticable issues under moderate driving.....but push the car a little harder and you have a differenct story. This is also why you do not see many cars past the 270HP range with FWD
Torque steer?
Try going into a hair pin turn at 30+ under power in a FWD car and then do the same in a RWD car, once you crest the apex you will know what under / over steer is all about. Steering is a inherent problem with all FWD vehicles when you are pushing them to their limits....that is why all serious performance cars are all RWD or AWD. At 300HP you may not experience any noticable issues under moderate driving.....but push the car a little harder and you have a differenct story. This is also why you do not see many cars past the 270HP range with FWD
Most people in this thread are stating $5k just for the blower. I just wanted people to realize the actual parts won't be that expensive. With install, yes, about $5k. You understood, most did not.
I've auto-x'd my car and did the road course at Pacific International in my CL. You are very correct that a RWD/AWD car is the better choice in any performance situation. I just think many of you overstress torque steer as being an absolute factor that makes high hp fwd cars unworthy of mods. I hope I have not implied that I get absolutely no torque steer. Of course, I get some while exiting a corner under throttle. But it isn't something that is so intrusive that my driving experience is ruined in any way. Could I have more fun in a RWD/AWD car? Most definitely...but then I'd have to drop more $$ into a new car. My biggest concern is typically understeer. I have to baby the car going into turns and can't get on throttle during the turn or else I'll push right through it. Never do I come out of a corner and think about the torque steer. I really think you'd be surprised how invisible the extra power really is most of the time. It just makes the car feel alot lighter than the 3500 lbs it actually weighs.
03-09-2005 | 08:28 PM
#102
'06 750Li Sapphire/Creme
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,012
Likes: 0
From: Charlotte, NC
Originally Posted by mickey3c
.... I think a ton of people already got mortgaged to the hilt with 7 year loans for a TL so they will not be shelling out the cake ...
03-09-2005 | 09:38 PM
#103
Cruisin'
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Called the Acura dealer today to inquire about warranty issue with the factory warrranty with the Comptech installed.....I got the big resounding no 
.....I was informed that the conversion to forced air indiction would realse them from any warranty work on the engine or damage to the driveline if it was determined that the damage was a result of the SC. Sounds like to me that anytime something would go wrong...it would be blamed on the SC. I will be placing another call to a different Acura dealership tomorrow to find out the real deal....in the meantime does anyone have any information that confirms or dismisses this? Has anyone received confirmation in writing?
Thanks
.....I was informed that the conversion to forced air indiction would realse them from any warranty work on the engine or damage to the driveline if it was determined that the damage was a result of the SC. Sounds like to me that anytime something would go wrong...it would be blamed on the SC. I will be placing another call to a different Acura dealership tomorrow to find out the real deal....in the meantime does anyone have any information that confirms or dismisses this? Has anyone received confirmation in writing?Thanks
03-09-2005 | 09:51 PM
#104
Any random Acura dealership is most likely not going to honor the warranty.
But if you buy the S/C'er through an Acura dealership and have it installed there it will be covered.
Only a small number of dealerships support Comptech. Some would just rather have their techs replace transmissions and change the oil all day.
But if you buy the S/C'er through an Acura dealership and have it installed there it will be covered.
Only a small number of dealerships support Comptech. Some would just rather have their techs replace transmissions and change the oil all day.
03-10-2005 | 05:59 AM
#105
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,581
Likes: 3
yes serious
Originally Posted by ndabunka
WTF? I only ask because it appears that you were being serious about this. I can't think of ONE person that's foolish enough to have financed ANY vehicle for 7 years. You DO realize that 7 years is 84 months, right? Do ANY finance companies even do that? The 6 year/72 month thing is stupid enough as the interest alone (at any rate) will eat away at your equity. I'd like to think that the others on this board are similar to me with either 36 or 48 month loans (at the most) with a significant chunk down. So, yea... $5K for a SC is a little steep when the whole car itself was like $35K new but if it provided the satisfaction is should and is demonstrated to be reliable AND is covered under warranty (This IS Comptech afterall, right). Then why not. It's not like $5K is going to stretch anyone's capabilities if they are intelligent enough with their finances, right?
03-10-2005 | 10:12 AM
#107
Originally Posted by mickey3c
So why is that... why does only a small number support them.. I do not want to drive 200 miles for that ... that's a pain in the arse..
Dealerships are independently owned. They get to make their own decisions.
03-10-2005 | 10:46 AM
#108
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,581
Likes: 3
Of course they are but when it comes to standing behind a product, acura needs dictate what the policy is since they are paying for it in the ling run. Otherwise, you have to work with the dealer to convince them that they should cover something which is not a place I want to be... Then if they decide to change policy, you are screwed...
03-10-2005 | 12:01 PM
#109
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,071
Likes: 0
Its ridiculous that Honda is the only Manufacturer that doesn't have a dedicated tuning division. You put TRD parts on a Toyota = covered. Nissan has Nismo, BMW has the M, Mercedes as AMG, Ford has SVT, etc. Honda should just buy Comptech.
03-10-2005 | 01:26 PM
#110
Blown LS6!!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,993
Likes: 0
From: Bellevue, WA
Originally Posted by EZZ
Its ridiculous that Honda is the only Manufacturer that doesn't have a dedicated tuning division. You put TRD parts on a Toyota = covered. Nissan has Nismo, BMW has the M, Mercedes as AMG, Ford has SVT, etc. Honda should just buy Comptech.
Don't they have A-Spec? I know it's basically cosmetic stuff but it's a start. Honda does what they do well (make fairly reliable, fairly economical, fairly environmentally conscious FWD cars) and I guess they don't see any reason to change at this point. However, if they don't put AWD into their next iteration of the CL/TL then I'll probably go elsewhere.
03-10-2005 | 02:07 PM
#111
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,581
Likes: 3
Well what if AWD takes away from the 0-60 times... would you still buy it..? The AWD is typically heavier and would very well do that. The set up I have on my other car does not use a transverse engine mount typically found in todays FWD cars, so there would be a few changes that would have to be made to the tl..
There would be less passenger leg room in the back as well.. I wouldn't mind, but some people do..
There would be less passenger leg room in the back as well.. I wouldn't mind, but some people do..
03-10-2005 | 05:43 PM
#112
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,071
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Seattle Cl-S
Don't they have A-Spec? I know it's basically cosmetic stuff but it's a start. Honda does what they do well (make fairly reliable, fairly economical, fairly environmentally conscious FWD cars) and I guess they don't see any reason to change at this point. However, if they don't put AWD into their next iteration of the CL/TL then I'll probably go elsewhere.
03-10-2005 | 10:19 PM
#113
www.teamultraspeed.com
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
From: va beach, va
Originally Posted by EZZ
...Honda is the only Manufacturer that doesn't have a dedicated tuning division...
03-10-2005 | 11:32 PM
#114
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,071
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by tizo
03-10-2005 | 11:55 PM
#115
Suzuka Master
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 8,620
Likes: 7
From: Charlotte
Originally Posted by mickey3c
15 K is just a year's worth of driving and who knows how the car was driven. If it was a 3G model I would be a bit concerned since they are already pushing 11:1 compression. I recall the cars that came from the factory with a turbo in the 80s having have a much lower compression since there was about an 8 pound turbo boost. And those engines were made with stronger crank journals since they were meant to be used with a turbo. They later boosted to about 12 pounds with an intercooler. Those engines had a larger oil pan capacity as well since the engine ran hotter and oil is also use to cool as well as lubricate.
Hard to say how a 3.2 would fair with a super charger after let's say 70,000 miles... How would the clutch and tranny fair? There is a lot of questions and not just the engine when you start bolting on 20% more power like that.
Hard to say how a 3.2 would fair with a super charger after let's say 70,000 miles... How would the clutch and tranny fair? There is a lot of questions and not just the engine when you start bolting on 20% more power like that.
03-11-2005 | 06:26 AM
#116
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,581
Likes: 3
400K.... lol ok... many people just do not want more wear (even if it is just in their mind according to some) for the trade off. Plus as it appears on here that some dealerships will not honor the warranty. Yeah I know many say you have to push it.. .But if this is your daily driver and your not trying to drag race, why bother shelling out several grand and then arguing about a warranty.
Some people are also concerned with the car running differently as well as any additional fuel consumption... If you got the cake and want to do it then do it...
It is like anything else some people have to something and are willing to live with whatever happens.
It's like the 5AT tranny issue. Some folks do not care if they have to have 5 replaced or that cruising at 80 some day the tranny could shift into a much lower gear and lock up on you. If you do not mind that than go for it.. If you do, then you get rid of the car or leave well enough alone..
Some people are also concerned with the car running differently as well as any additional fuel consumption... If you got the cake and want to do it then do it...
It is like anything else some people have to something and are willing to live with whatever happens.
It's like the 5AT tranny issue. Some folks do not care if they have to have 5 replaced or that cruising at 80 some day the tranny could shift into a much lower gear and lock up on you. If you do not mind that than go for it.. If you do, then you get rid of the car or leave well enough alone..
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