Bitium

The June R&T had and article called SEVEN TO THE POWER OF SIX.

It included all acura TL competitors because the were V6 sedans. The worst thing about the article is that the CTS won, nice car but no enough to take 1st place.

I think they knew the acura TL would sweep the competition.

"But the sixes work fine for most applications, and what we have here are seven 6-cylinder luxury sedans that get around quite nicely, despite their shortage of extra pistons. All are between 2.9 and 3.6 liters, two are inline-6s (one turbocharged and transverse) and the rest are naturally aspirated V-6s."

here is the article: http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=1337

EZZ

Because the TL, G35, and BMW would have wiped the floor with them.

automata

The TL is usually compared to the 3 series, A4, X-type etc... The CTS winning this comparo to me makes it useless.

VQ35DE

Personally, I dont like any of the cars in that comparo exc. the Bimmer. But $54G for a V6 sedan? I'll pass. $50G gets me into a slightly used E39 M5. Nuff said.

EZZ

True. I was also talking about the 3 series in the above statement (didn't clarify) I remember one mag doing a comparo and found the CTS above the TL. Someone should smack them since the TL outperformed the CTS in just about every performance category.

TLXLR8S

even though the TL is right up there, i dont think they were comparing "near luxury" sedans. those are considerd "luxury". dont get me wrong the TL would wipe out most of them, but i dont think first. and the "bang for the buck" on the TL wont help here b/c they are comparing more expensive V6's rather then all V6's. its just not in that class, its in the class that C&D had a few months ago. they cant put the TL in every comparison, even though its up there.

oscart

Well the Chrystler 300 is there... I would put that on the same class as the TL/G35/BMW3... it even ranked in the middle of the pack... apart from that, ditto on the tlxlr8s luxury comment.

Jim123

When I read that article a couple weeks ago it really reinforced that the TL was the right choice for me. All those cars (except the Chrysler) are way more expensive then the TL yet there is not one of them that I'd rather have over the TL.

kosh2258

Well the 300 Touring isn't a luxury car, that's for sure. Certainly not at the $34K price point it sells for.

Looks to me like the article was shill job for Chrysler. Beats out the Beamer, falls mid pack, but costs $9700 less. By rights, the 300 shouldn't have even been included in the test because it's not even in the same price class as the rest.

Ken7

The joke here is that they seriously downgraded the BMW because of its price in the class of cars they tested. Well DUH, who decided to put it into this group in the first place? The same dummies that downgraded it due to cost. What a bunch of morons!!!!

soopa

interesting seeing a chrysler 300 in with that crowd... whats the 300 start at? 24k!?

Shoot2Thrill

Can't say how much disgust I have for these shameless rags. It's like Larry King and Enron put together. You want to know about which top ten etc. Look at the sales numbers. The wisdom of the masses makes these "experts" look like the like absolute fools. They don't report anything of substance. It's like playboy of cars pretending to be technical

Burgman

They were compairing six cylinder versions of cars that can be had with eight cylinders. The TL can not be had with a eight so it was not included.

oscart

Neither the MB E320 nor the Volvo S80 are available with 8 cylinders as far as I know.
Now you could say that the MB E series has a V8 (E500) but still no V8 in Volvos.

TLXLR8S

what do you mean "you could say"? the E class has 3 engine types, 320,500,55, the E is the class and the numbers are the engine type so you cant say that about the E-class. on the volvo i cant talk b/c i dont know.

Bitium

The volvo does not have a V8.

The funny thing is that they didn't include any japanesse v6 sedan of any class.

Even if those cars do have a V8 option the acura V6 still outperforms most other V6's and really competes against some V8's.

oscart

What I meant is that if you are considering classes and not models then it is correct to say that the E series does have a model with a V8... But different manufacturers have different standards on naming their classes/models, Example the Chrystler 300, by just that name it could be thought of as a model which has a V8 option. Anyway... The real point is Volvo doesn't have a V8... one in the bunch is enough.

AJRozsa

Do you know how Coca Cola ends up right in your face when you turn into the soft drinks aisle in the supermarket? They pay A LOT of money for it.

If you want to get an objective opinion untouched by paid bias, you gotta go to the people who don't make money taking sides. Consumer Reports, Edmunds, Cars Direct... like that. They do an excellent and CREDIBLE job. The mags with dozens of ads falling out when you open them? They have sold their souls long time ago.

But, ultimately, we have driven (I hope you did) all those cars and we have chosen to buy TLs. My feeling is that the folks on this forum do more research before they buy their cars than the average citizen who reads the rags. I got my dream car. Haven't YOU? I bet you did, too.

kman156

the TL came in 3rd behind the lexus , and i believe they gave the audi the top spot? they said the TL would probably have been first but the front wheel drive killed that. TL has the highest horsepower in the group!

planman_RENAMED

Can you say "payola"? Wonder what it cost DaimlerChrysler to get their new boat in this test...It's clearly out-classed.

As for the others, they're generally not considered TL competition...thus, the 3 series, G35 are missing, too.

planman_RENAMED

Was it the Lexus ES? That's FWD, too.

What was their rationale for putting it on top? Must've been an entry-lux comparison, not entry-lux/sport...can't deny the luxury part of the equation with Lexus.

lakeman

Interesting update on a old thread.
Just saw the latest R&T on the newstand today. In the letters to the editor, someone had taken the data from the April TL review and compared it to the "7 to the power of 6" data and concluded the TL would win by 20 points if it were included. As EZZ noted -had the TL, G35 and BMW (3 series) been included there would not have been much of a contest. These 3 cars are almost in a class by themselves.

1SICKLEX

Sigh, Acura owners complain more to magazines about being dissed or not included or whatever justifying reason for purchase more than anyone. It's quite funny to read them month after month.

narikin

Road and Track is (IMO) by far the most reliable, informative, and unbiased source of information about automobiles. I've read it for years, and it led me to buy a stream of Honda automobiles (CRX, Integra, RSX, TL). Since the TL is not included in this particular review, it hardly seems fair to blame them for not praising it. Don't worry, the TL will do very well in R&T!

boltjames

So long as our illustrious ClubLexus Moderator drives my mother-in-law's car...





...he really shouldn't comment on our car...





...now should he?

GaleForce

SSM owns.

Oh and btw BJ is right. *puts flame suit on*

Xpditor

More than that, in the April issue of Road & Track both the base TL and the BMW 530i with the Sport Package (wheels, tires, suspension, etc). They were tested separately but under identical conditions by the same testers at the same place. The TL bested the BMW in all catagories except one 60-0 stopping. The TL stopped faster from 80-0 with smaller brakes. The TL was quicker and faster in acceleration, skidpad, slalom- you name it. And there was $20,000 difference in price.

I find that amazing!

XP

boltjames

This inspired me to write a love poem for the TL as follows:

The TL rules and is so good,
With so many horses beneath the hood.
A BMW or Mercedes not,
Nice lip under the drivers seat to hide my snot.
It's front wheel drive and that's fair I've waged,
Audi's and Infinities have already aged.
Other cars still fail to best us,
Like my mother-in-laws ES300 Lexus.

-- James Bolt, 2004

GaleForce

LOL I spent way too much time doing this.

svtmike

With experience, you'll be able to make red X's much faster than you can now.

Mike

P.S. Never mind, you fixed it.

GaleForce

Hehe left out the directory name.

Xpditor

The TL DID do very well in Road & Track in the April 04 issue.

The base TL with HPT owned a BMW 530i with the sport package that cost $20,000 more.

The test can be found on line at www.roadandtrack.com. The cars were tested separately but under identical conditions by the same testers at the same track.

It's hard to get any respect for a hot FWD from auto traditionalists and people who have preconceived notions of what they THINK the TL should handle like. It's a strong prejudice that's hard to overcome even by TL owners who haven't experienced their own cars limits yet.

Road and Track summarized: "In the slalom, the TL threads through the cones with the utmost agility, giving the car a bit of on-throttle OVERSTEER character, thanks to its rear suspension geometry. Around the skidpad, the TL exhibits more (moderate) understeer.

The BMW 530i Sport (wheels, tires, suspension, etc) also was described as having "moderate understeer" in the skidpad. It pulled 0.86g. The TL? 0.87g.

So when are we going to put this myth to rest that FWD can't corner? Some can! This reminds me of the old argument against Porsche - they can't handle or corner because of their rear engine!

People who put something down without thorough investigation are just talking out of their

XP

kosh2258

That may have been true at one time, but not anymore. That R&T test was so stilted as to be almost amusing.

Face it, the 4 major car magazines are now in the hands of two publishers:

R&T and Car and Driver are owned by Hachette Filipacchi Media.
Motor Trend and Automobile are held by Primedia.

Both parent companies are interested in advertising revenue and they aren't going to risk pissing off a manufacturer that spends bucks with them. Editorial integrity be damned if it means risking the revenue stream.

R&T did the big Chrysler 300 Magvertisment just a few months ago which, I'm sure, generated more than a few bucks from DaimlerChrysler. So just how unbiased do you think R&T really is? I have no doubts that DaimlerChrysler whispered in a few ears to get the 300 included into a test of cars that are clearly outside its market segment in a lame attempt to prove that Chrysler is worthly of being moved "up market".

Liquid _Courage

Is this the article you're referring to?

http://www.caranddriver.com/article....rticle_id=7785

Actually, Lexus and Audi came in 4th and 5th respectively. TL in third, BMW 3 series in second and the overall winner the G35. You're right though about the front wheel drive killing the TLs chance at winning, but I'd still buy one. Oh wait, I did

Azuki

Doesn't R&T usually write something in domestic (aka Detroit) car's favor? Like ones it had Dodge Neon as one of the best car in the year? To me all the car magazine are just some guys thinking they know everything...worthless to buy, but fun to read (for free) at bookstores

Xpditor

Now take a look at the point spread between the different finishers. It is very telling how close the top three were- and then the "also rans".

XP

lakeman

Good point. I actually sent a letter-to -the-editor re:April issue but they didn't print it. Here was what I said.

"I found your article on the 04 TL was one of the best I have read. I, too, fell for the styling, comfort and features, but almost didn’t buy it for the same reasons you noted - clutch and handling quirks. Over time I have learned the proper release point and technique for the clutch and have tamed the “nose darting” and “torque steer” with practice. Putting 270 ponies to the ground through two wheels can be a handful whether it is front or rear drive. (I almost looped my 911 a couple of times before I figured it out.) Interestingly, your following article on the new 530 highlights how comparable the TL is to the BMW - for 20K less"

Still like my TL better than my 88 911.

NightRider

Coke in the South because of Atlanta roots, Pepsi here is the same way (Pepsi Center)

mischa

BMW doens't make V6.

NightRider

Bias is just too prevalent in the reporting industry these days. Consumer Reports is definitely not biased though, they ranked the TL over all other competitors. In fact, they ranked the TL as one of the top 3 luxurious sedans (behind Lex LS430 and MB S) REGARDLESS of price. You aren't buying a car for anyone but yourself or whoever will enjoy it, you be the judge.