Fossil_TL

i've heard of a Rap song that kinda has lyrics like this

From Honda to Lexus to "Rose Roylse", I guess Lexus is more important

Turbowhat2

lets think of it this way... You pay more $$ for a product that makes less compromises. When you buy a rolex, you shell out 5-10k for a watch. Will a $99 fossil watch function just as well at keeping time... probably. But you wanted something that had no compromises. You wanted those diamonds on the 12-3-6-9, and the gold frame. So you paid 5-10K more for that watch that functions just as well as that Fossil one.

As for cars... Will a Scion get you from point a to point b just as well as a Ferrari Enzo? If your not in a major rush, Both cars will get accomplish the task. But you get more respect with the Ferrari b/c you paid 3/4 of a million for it. The Ferrari is closer to no compromises perfection than the Scion.

Same with Lexus - Acura. The Lexus Costs more, because it is expected to be better than the Acura. There are less compromises in the quality of the product in Lexus than in Acura. People who buy lexus get everything out of the Lexus that they expected. Less ugly surprises such as butt prints and transmission failures come out of Lexuses.

When you bought the Acura over the Lexus, Money was probably a major factor in your decision. You were willing to sacrifice that prestige and whatnot in order to save that extra 5-10K... Just like if you were buying a watch, you might think its not worth the extra 5-10k for the Rolex.

AcuraGT-3

I agree, where I golf, Acuras are driven by the workers, the golfers drive BMW/Benz/Lexus and the owner drives a damn Ferrari......

I mean, you can't really compare the two. Acura pushes the "Value" of the car, Lexus pushes the "luxury" not to mention, Lexus is sold worldwide, Acura in the USA only.

Apples to Oranges............

KJSmitty

Whats up with all the "country club" comparisons..?
You come across as very materialistic.. Don't get me wrong, I like having expensive things just as much as the next person. But I've had many a "hot girl" in my lifetime including the one I married. None of which came my way due to the car I was driving and/or the watch I was wearing. Your right though, it is all perception. If that's what a guy feels he needs to get a date, more power to him.

gtgrad95

It's pretty simple, to be the man, you have to beat the man. Acura just hasn't grasped this concept with their service departments.

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

Look at what infiniti used to be in terms of a marque ... in the days of the J30, M30, G20, and Q45. They were a no name company .. just a bigger brother of Nissan w/ no clout to offer. Now they are a luxury powerhouse, and their status grows by the hour it seems.

Acura needs to follow suit, and in four to five years, they'll be right up there -- adding the confusion of choosing a great luxury car among so many great options.

SiGGy

exactly what I would have said.

The integra/RSX is mainly kids who own it too. Which totally screws the name brand into NOT being luxury. Especially when you see the RSX/integra fly by you with the fart pipe making it's noise

Nothing about the RSX/Integra is luxurious. Both should have stayed as "honda".

I don't know about you guys, but I'm done with Honda/Acura/Whatever they want to call themselfs. If I buy Japanese again I'd go Toyota after my experience/time reading others experiece with Honda. Toyota/Lexus may not have the best styling, they build a better product when it comes down to it.

all cars have their flaws... Honda's attitude (conservative) as a whole is not one I agree with anymore...

billo

Having owned a Lexus for the last 14 years and now being the recent owner of a TL, I think people are selling Acura short.The Lexus ES330 is a nice car but certainly not as stylish as the new TL.Lexus dealers are wonderful to deal with, at least the ones I have seen, and that commitment to service and pleasing the customer is hard to beat.In terms of product, I find the new TL to be a much more attractive car than the current ES model.The Acura dealer in Princeton,NJ has been much like my experience with Lexus in terms of customer focus and the showroom is very attractive.So, my experience has been very similar in terms of dealership attention and in terms of product,my new TL is a sportier and more attractive car than any ES model I ever owned.

FlashG

Well then just goodbye to ya and go enjoy a new Lexi.

Personally I like kids, mine are 23 and 35 and they both own fart can Hondas. So there Mr. self important person.

ediddy

Lexus and Acura are both nice =)

boltjames

Partically correct, but with a major difference:

I was looking at E-Class Mercedes and 5-Series BMW and chose the TL because it was a whole lot more car for the money. I could afford either of those two marquis luxury brands but chose to go with Acura.

When it came to Lexus, I didn't even take a test drive because I can't stand the old man styling.

So....yes, money was a factor, but only vs the MB and the BMW.

When it boiled down to the Big 3 Japanese Luxury Brands, Infiniti had no status, Lexus was for grandpa, and the Acura was just right. The perfect blend for the 40 year old that doesn't want to grow up so fast.

BJ

sufall96

It's all about perception. America is one of the few countries that look at the brand rather than the car itself for what it is. In Europe Mercedes and BMW both have entry level cars and even are used as taxies and police cars. But they sell the more exspensive models in the US and have created an image. In Germany a S55 AMG is looked at as a serious machine, which it is but in America we can look at a C 230 and say it's a Benz. Americans are so nieve and we are stuck on status.

rets

Orange & Apple. I love Lexus, however, I didn't want to buy another old GS at that time, and ES was too boring for me. IS was due to the new model. Although Acura seems to have some issues on cars, so far my TL is still the great purchase. Lots of people don't like Acura because of its infamous 2G tranny failure and its cost-saving "quality". Some people may decide already they won't buy another 1st year model again in their life, and so on. Sorry to hear these. I respect your choice and preference.

TL-N

2. There is no car between the TL and the flagship RL. Lexus has the GS that is b/w the ES and it's flagship, the LS. This draws more people over there who want to spend around 40K, want more luxury than the ES, both don't want to necessarily jump into the $50s.

What Acura needs to do is have the RL compete with the GS and design a completely new big body to match up with the LS! And ADD an 8 cyclinder!!

SiGGy

Ok there buddy, sure it's not you driving the car with the fart can? You seem to be a bit too defensive about fart cans.

I like kids too, however 23 and 25 is not a kid. They woould be young adults...

Self important? please elaborate Mr. FlashG.

Yes, I have an opinion and I stand by it.

Oh, and BTW. I never said I was going to buy a Lexus. Maybe slow down next time when your reading my post.

Do I ever complain about a kid drivng a big block chevy with full dual exhaust, or a turbo supra with well tuned exhaust, harley davidson with nice pipes, crotch crocket with aftermarket exhaust?

NO, just the wanna-bee racer idiots driving around sounding like weedwackers on crack in there enconomy cars.

Sclass88

Infiniti and Acura are very much in the same boat. Though Infiniti makes a very aggressive looking vehicle, Acura is not far behind. I find the RL to be beautiful but the M has a slight edge over it in terms of styling. Infiniti had the Q45 as their big flag ship but it seems to have fallen off the radar screen.
Infiniti really started to pop up after the G35 was introduced, just a few years back. Now it's Acura's time to shine and with the TL and RL, it is starting to come along. It has work to do before it can compete with the big guns like the overpriced Germans and the glorified Toyota but it will get there.
In my opinion, I think that the big names are like this...
Benz > BMW > Lexus > Audi > Acura/Infiniti

TL-N

I Love Acura/Honda but they will never come close to the big dogs as long as no there are only 6 cylinders. They need an 8!! Even with the 300 horses pushed out of the 6, it still lacks that low end torque and the 8 umph! What Acura also needs is a Big Body. RL is nice but its no Big Daddy. Only, if only, a Big body comes out, it will than be able to play with the S's, the 7's and A-8s. Until then, we'll keep being compared to the Maxima's, GS's and .....Avalon's!!

apwalsh

Hmm, RWD and V-8 does not make luxury. Shoes and feet do not make you a superstar sprinter. Big tits and a nice ass do not make you an actress.

Although I agree with pretty much everything you said, you need to work on your analogies. Or at least don't step on your own toes while making them.

There was probably a time that Lexus and Acura were side by side as far as perception, but Lexus has pulled away since then with superior service, quality and a wider selection of cars. I think Acura has found it's nichce and will continue there while stealing a bit of business from above and below it's niche from time to time.

Eduardo

Why did your friend choose the 534i if he dislikes it?

Eduardo

Agreed!!!

Most North Americans (since we live in the usa) couldn't tell the difference between the E46 M3 and a E46 330ci or a c55 and a c320. Many people are just focused on the badge.

Eduardo

opps, 545i. Carry on.

pepsiman

Lexus (toyota) is bigger company compare to Acura (honda)... both companies build great reliable cars...

MR1

[QOUTE=apwalsh]There was probably a time that Lexus and Acura were side by side as far as perception, but Lexus has pulled away since then with superior service, quality and a wider selection of cars. I think Acura has found it's nichce and will continue there while stealing a bit of business from above and below it's niche from time to time.[QUOTE] Actually, after Honda came out with Acura, Toyota and Datsun decided to do them one better w Lexus and Infiniti.



Most of these people just don't get it. Honda sells more cars in the US than in Japan. Honda is tiny in comparison to Toyota and Nissan/Renault.

Honda has only been in the car business since late 1960's or early 1970's, before that it was motorcycles.

They don't want to/can't compete head-to-head with the big guys. If you want a Lexus/Infiniti buy one. Acura maintains their share by being a little different.

sufall96

Have you heard of Porsche? This is a company that has built it's name off of 6 cylinders.

fasttl

Who really gives a rats ass????

EZZ

Exactly. Prestige doesn't = v8. Prestige = RWD

PeteTLS

[QUOTE=EZZ]Exactly. Prestige doesn't = v8. Prestige = RWD [/QUOTE



All the 'big names' are RWD or AWD, ergo if Acura has one too, and throws in a V8 for kicks, they will suddenly become a prestige brand with all the benefits that go with that title.

U8INIT

I'm confused with all this talk about Prestige. Some of you people kill me. If all you need is a V8 and RWD to be Prestige, then Acura is in deep shyt. With GMC, Dodge and the rest of the car companies that offer those configurations, Honda is going out of business pretty soon huh. NOT. Let me tell you one thing Honda has made its place in the industry on its "Heritage" if that means anything to any of you guys. OPPS it must have, because most of you purchased one (LOL). I understand that most of us are Americans. With that being said, "BIGGER is BETTER" or is it? Its all philosophical in a way, and touches every realm of the fields of philosophy. One of the good things about this topic is that's there is no right or wrong answer. I feel as though I can feel good about my purchase, and say that I'm with a car company that goes against the grain. My car still turns all sets even with all the rattles and crappy paint, and Honda knows it, so why don't YOU ALL know it. OPPS you do, you purchased one (LOL). I don't know about the rest of you, but I feel good when I get into my car and gag almost everything around me. And this is coming form a car connoisseur. I've been in almost every make and model, and I'm abreast with just about everything in the automotive industry. It's just my take on the topic, from an owner of both Lexus and Acura, both with advantages and disadvantages. To each his own, and by the way one monkey don't stop no show, just look at Acura sells. Other car companies can "Kick Rocks" I'm sure that's how Honda views it, and so should some of you guys that are easily impressed. I know I'm not.

PeteTLS

ergo the I put at the end of my post.

Big dollars = better able to meet the 'needs' of more customers, which is why I see Lexus as better able to produce a larger variety of models, including the ES and GS. If Honda had the bucks they could build an ES-tromping TL (in all areas, not just HP/lb ft), and a GS-beating V8 RWD sub-RL car, and move the RL up to LS levels. They apparently don't, or choose not too for whatever reason, leaving buyers the choice....compromise in a TL and bank the extra cash, or step up to the plate and go for a Marque that has the 'prestige' features you want. Bashing Honda for not doing that isn't going to accompish anything - I doubt Honda as a Corp reads these posts from a minority of owners and makes marketing decisions based on that. The competetion has been to cram as many 'toys' into each model at each price point as possible, while still offering 'acceptable' levels of service, reliability, etc. What is 'acceptable' of course varies with the individual, and the individual has the ultimate authority by voting with the checkbook. No one's mind will be changed by what I or anyone else writes here, they will each decide for themselves whether the 'value' of the entire package (product, service, ownership experience, quality, resale) is 'better' with Brand A or B, and each new choice is a gamble. It takes time of ownership to discover whether we win or loose the bet, and all we can do up front is weigh the features we can know from the start and gamble on the future. Like all the stock commercials say in the fine print - 'Past performance is no guarantee of future returns'.

Turbowhat2

yeah the 911s are built off of flat 6 3.6 liter engines. making over 300 hp. Twin turbo it and you have 415 hp and 415 lbs torque

TL-N

I think i've heard of Porshe!! I have one sitting in my garage with 6 cylinders pushing 315 hp also known as the 911.

Have you heard of the Carrera GT? Its got 10 cylinders pushing a little over 600hp. Or have you ever heard of the new Cayenne? Thats got an 8 cylinders pushing about 350 or so horses.

Whats Acura have? An NSX with 6 cylinders pushing almost 300 hp.

Dont get me wrong, i'm a Honda guy, with the exception of my Porshe, Honda's are all i own. What im saying is Honda needs to push at least an 8 to hold on. Look at Porshe, "a compnay that has built it's name off of 6 cylinders," they eventually went with an 8 and even a 10.

Turbowhat2

im kinda thinking honda doesnt want a V8 because of current gas prices. So theyre keeping their mindset on economical nice cars. The TL and RL are 6 liter engines with nice power, but acura doesnt want a gas guzzling V8. Even our 6 cylinder 911 turbo gets about 14 mpg mostly rural driving.

sufall96

My point is it's all perception. I would love a V8 in any Acura but that would not do it alone. Marketing plays a big part in how the brand is viewed. Also Acura needs to be careful with their lineup if it wants more prestige. The TSX and RSX are fine cars but I personally think they may be hurting the brand recognition a little bit. More the RSX than the TSX. If Acura marketed more aggressive and slotted a $40,000 sedan along with adding a big flagship above the RL in my opinion the brand recognition would tremendously go up. Do you know how many 525's, 530's, GS300'S ect. there are on the road. None of these cars attain a V8 however the owners feel that they have a piece of the prestige pie. Most owners that drive those cars don't know whats under the hood anyway. My point is a V8 alone will not bring prestige.

pepsiman

Lexus service > Acura service
plus cheapest Lexus is gonna be $40,000...

sufall96

A 2005 IS300(5 speed) has a starting price of $30,280.

gtgrad95

^^You can get a fully loaded ES for $34K

RUF87

My biggest gripe is that quality is not what Acura used to be known for.



Given that Lexus (Toyota) quality is a step ahead of Acura (Honda), Lexus is focused more on highend luxury for their brand. Just look at the big price jump from a Toyota equivalent model to that of a Lexus.

For me to buy a Lexus I would have to really love the looks and performance to justify their premium price. Not worth it to me . . . and I think a lot of folks buy labels . . . just look at the clothes people buy. A lot of items come from the same source and they just sew on the label. It was a real eye opener when I saw a show on this some years ago. They were making shirts and pants at this place and had boxes of various labels that were used for the same run of jeans.

While not quite the same here, is a LX470 really that much better than a 4Runner Limited? Other than skins, trim and some other basic items, it's all the same . . . at something like $15k more . . . . not counting higher insurance costs, fuel costs, higher maintenance . . .

Ruf

RUF87

What I found is these cars are not always as well equiped . . . . I think Acura offers more standard features.

Besides, $30k+ for such a small car? Too small for my wants. I'd have to go to a ES330 and they are old foggie cars in my opinion.

Ruf

RUF87

A base model . . . once I equip it with the options it's $40k.

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/lexu...3/options.html

Ruf

RUF87

I think this quote from Lexus says it quite nicely.

"Lexus says that it didn't develop the car to be all things to all people, and we feel that there's a certain amount of honor in acknowledging a car's limitations. Many people simply don't give a darn about the performance potential of an automobile. A car is a conveyance, not a form of entertainment, and if they're lucky enough, their vehicle will also convey to onlookers the idea that they've achieved a certain level of success. For those consumers, the ES 330 should have tremendous appeal. "

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/lexu...chlanding.html

Ruf