Why doesn't Acura get same respect as Lexus?
10-13-2004, 08:49 PM
#81
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[QUOTE=ward148]I have know idea who Lexus targets? 
Anyone with money would never even consider a Lexus...I have never seen any successful person driving a lexus, so i have no idea why thay would even be considered a luxury car. 
(but i guess thay are) Anyone that wonts a luxury car knows were to go and it's not the Lexus dealer 
.....
I guess Bill Gates is a loser then.....
http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/L...LexusIS300.htm
When Lexus goes on the prowl for another new market segment, the automotive press takes notice. This is because, when the dust settles, the class leader that emerges often wears a stylized L inside an oval in the center of its grill. Witness the string of class leaders that currently display that badge:
The LS-400 has consistently been at the top of the full sized luxury sedan class since its introduction in 1989 as a 1990 model. (And wait until you see the all-new 2001 LS-430)
The ES-300 has remained one of the best cars in the near luxury sedan class since its introduction in 1992
The SC-300 & SC-400 are the dream cars of many individuals who desire a no-holds-barred luxury sports coupe. (Including Bill Gates who said his SC-400 was his favorite car)
The RX-300 currently dominates the luxury SUV market with the other manufacturers scrambling to come up with something that is comparable.
........
Anyone with money would never even consider a Lexus...I have never seen any successful person driving a lexus, so i have no idea why thay would even be considered a luxury car. (but i guess thay are) Anyone that wonts a luxury car knows were to go and it's not the Lexus dealer ..... I guess Bill Gates is a loser then.....
http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/L...LexusIS300.htm
When Lexus goes on the prowl for another new market segment, the automotive press takes notice. This is because, when the dust settles, the class leader that emerges often wears a stylized L inside an oval in the center of its grill. Witness the string of class leaders that currently display that badge:
The LS-400 has consistently been at the top of the full sized luxury sedan class since its introduction in 1989 as a 1990 model. (And wait until you see the all-new 2001 LS-430)
The ES-300 has remained one of the best cars in the near luxury sedan class since its introduction in 1992
The SC-300 & SC-400 are the dream cars of many individuals who desire a no-holds-barred luxury sports coupe. (Including Bill Gates who said his SC-400 was his favorite car)
The RX-300 currently dominates the luxury SUV market with the other manufacturers scrambling to come up with something that is comparable.
........
10-13-2004, 08:59 PM
#82
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
This thread= 
Lexus is superior to Acura is almost everyway possible. We are not talking TL vs Lexus. We are talking Brand for Brand. Since boths inception;
Looking at Acura, they entered the market first in 1986 but were never considred luxury until the 2nd gen Legend. The 1st gen Legend won Import Car of the Year. Since then, I don't think any Acura has ever won an award from a magazine. Acura never intended to fight Benz or BMW head on. Acura was a brand created for people to have a nice Honda to move up too.
Lexus on the other hand spent $1 billion on the 1st gen LS 400 alone to compete head to head with BMW and Benz. The funny thing is they laughed it off. Lexus became the #1 selling import brand in 3 YEARS!
Now Lexus is revered and the term "Lexus-Like" comes to mind with luxury, isolation, customer service etc. The LS 400 was voted one of the 100 most important cars ever created. Nice start!
Lexus is the best selling and the highest quality car out there. This is a fact.
The SC 300/400 were import car of the year, 6 time Automobile picks, etc etc.
The car companies are on 2 different wavelengths.
LExus is sold worldwide. Finally in 2006, in Japan as well.
Acura is ONLY sold in the United States.
That right here is a HUGE difference.
If you look at the lineups, you will see the 2 really don't compete head to head. Lexus goes after BMW and Benz. Acura is still a car for Honda owners to move up too.
RSX 20k-nothing
TSX 27k-niothing
TL 35k IS 300/ES 300 35k
MDX 40k RX 330 40k
nothing-GS 300 40-45k
nothing-GX 470 50k
RL 50k-nothing
nothing-GS430-50-55k (V-8)
nothing-LS 430 (55-70k)
nothing-LX 470(70k)
nothing-SC 430 (65k)
NSX 90k-nothing
Looking at the cars sold currently, Acura offers the new V-6 only RL and NSX over 40k.
Luxury cars are determined at 40k and up. Lexus offers 5 cars above 40k.
Even looking at popular culture, i.e celebrities, atheletes, musicians, they do not buy Acuras. They buy Benzs, Lexus and BMWs. Those real wealthy ones don't fock around and buy Ferraris, Bentley's etc.
Shoot just listen to any rap song (what is now the top selling music). Acura is never mentioned.
Lexus has the highest rated car plants in history for quality. Lexus understands one of their main sellng points is quality.
Lexus has made mistakes. The ES 250 was literally a rebadged Camry. The 1st gen GS 300 did not offer a V-8 and sold poorly (hello Acura, u watching?).
9,000 deposits are made for a 42k RX 400h Hybrid. That is unheard of for such an expensive car.
If you go to the Acura website and go to the Lexus websites on awards and accolades, there is no comparison. I don't want to cut and paste it again.
Acura does make good cars. They have woken up from that silly 1994-2000 period. Their lineup is a great improvement. The Tl is one of the best new cars out there period from any brand.
Lexus is superior to Acura is almost everyway possible. We are not talking TL vs Lexus. We are talking Brand for Brand. Since boths inception;
Looking at Acura, they entered the market first in 1986 but were never considred luxury until the 2nd gen Legend. The 1st gen Legend won Import Car of the Year. Since then, I don't think any Acura has ever won an award from a magazine. Acura never intended to fight Benz or BMW head on. Acura was a brand created for people to have a nice Honda to move up too.
Lexus on the other hand spent $1 billion on the 1st gen LS 400 alone to compete head to head with BMW and Benz. The funny thing is they laughed it off. Lexus became the #1 selling import brand in 3 YEARS!
Now Lexus is revered and the term "Lexus-Like" comes to mind with luxury, isolation, customer service etc. The LS 400 was voted one of the 100 most important cars ever created. Nice start!
Lexus is the best selling and the highest quality car out there. This is a fact.
The SC 300/400 were import car of the year, 6 time Automobile picks, etc etc.
The car companies are on 2 different wavelengths.
LExus is sold worldwide. Finally in 2006, in Japan as well.
Acura is ONLY sold in the United States.
That right here is a HUGE difference.
If you look at the lineups, you will see the 2 really don't compete head to head. Lexus goes after BMW and Benz. Acura is still a car for Honda owners to move up too.
RSX 20k-nothing
TSX 27k-niothing
TL 35k IS 300/ES 300 35k
MDX 40k RX 330 40k
nothing-GS 300 40-45k
nothing-GX 470 50k
RL 50k-nothing
nothing-GS430-50-55k (V-8)
nothing-LS 430 (55-70k)
nothing-LX 470(70k)
nothing-SC 430 (65k)
NSX 90k-nothing
Looking at the cars sold currently, Acura offers the new V-6 only RL and NSX over 40k.
Luxury cars are determined at 40k and up. Lexus offers 5 cars above 40k.
Even looking at popular culture, i.e celebrities, atheletes, musicians, they do not buy Acuras. They buy Benzs, Lexus and BMWs. Those real wealthy ones don't fock around and buy Ferraris, Bentley's etc.
Shoot just listen to any rap song (what is now the top selling music). Acura is never mentioned.
Lexus has the highest rated car plants in history for quality. Lexus understands one of their main sellng points is quality.
Lexus has made mistakes. The ES 250 was literally a rebadged Camry. The 1st gen GS 300 did not offer a V-8 and sold poorly (hello Acura, u watching?).
9,000 deposits are made for a 42k RX 400h Hybrid. That is unheard of for such an expensive car.
If you go to the Acura website and go to the Lexus websites on awards and accolades, there is no comparison. I don't want to cut and paste it again.
Acura does make good cars. They have woken up from that silly 1994-2000 period. Their lineup is a great improvement. The Tl is one of the best new cars out there period from any brand.
One thing that some people talk about that I definitely don't agree with - Acura not building quality cars. Someone mentioned a long term quality test? Well, JD Power does put out what they call a "Vehicle Dependability Survey" (basically how well the car fares after 3 years).
http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases...asp?ID=2004055
You'll notice that Lexus/Toyota dominates this (as well as the Initial Quality Survey). What you'll also notice, however, is that the previous generation TL and the MDX also appear on this survey. Not to mention that Acura/Honda nameplates as a whole are well above average with American Honda placing second in corporate rankings to Toyota.
So much for Acura not making good quality cars. Where's BMW, MB, and Audi? See for yourself. Some of you may be surprised, while many of us aren't.
10-13-2004, 09:06 PM
#83
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Originally Posted by EMF213
Mercedes has plants in the US, how would you rate THEIR quality? Honda Accords are built in the US...do they have bad quality??
I think that being involved in this froum just exposes you more to the little things that TL owners deal with. They complain because they LOVE their cars and want them to be perfect!! That's right...they LOVE their cars!! If they were junk, we wouldn't have this forum....
I think that being involved in this froum just exposes you more to the little things that TL owners deal with. They complain because they LOVE their cars and want them to be perfect!! That's right...they LOVE their cars!! If they were junk, we wouldn't have this forum....
As of recently, within the past few years, YES Mercedes quality has gone WAY down hill. WIth the exception of the S500, all other models have signifigantly declined in quality.
and the accord. Well, don't get me started on that thing.
THe bottom line is the TL is a poorly put together car. One could chalk that up to a few things, the first is that its the first year of a new model, have to work out the kinks, all cars do. the second is that is built in America, and quality control is lacking.
10-13-2004, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by planman
Are you serious with this?...or just trying to stir something
I love my TL and hope Acura is back on track based on the last few new/revised models (TSX, TL, RL), but Lexus has been the top-selling luxury brand for many years. You'd almost have to live in an area with no luxury cars on the roads or have the worst case of tunnel vision ever not see the them around on a regular basis.
I love my TL and hope Acura is back on track based on the last few new/revised models (TSX, TL, RL), but Lexus has been the top-selling luxury brand for many years. You'd almost have to live in an area with no luxury cars on the roads or have the worst case of tunnel vision ever not see the them around on a regular basis.
I have to agree. I am at this site becuase I am considering getting a new TL (currently have GS400) which is one of the front runners for me. I love the GS but want something a little more nimble. Some of the people here argue like these are their damn kids competing! I doubt anyone here designed one of these vehicles. Love them or not they are just cars and in two or three years you'll be ready for the next best thing. As for Lexus the service is better than any car I have previously owned. My GS400 had to be in the shop for a TSB and while I paid nothing, got a loaner (RX330) Lexus still sent an apology letter and two $100 prepaid fuel cards. I never got that with BMW, Honda, or Acura...
10-13-2004, 09:22 PM
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IMHO the Integra/RSX line is the main reason. Perception is almost everything in a luxury brand. Although the original integra had some nice qualities and a slick little engine, it was not at all upscale. The Accord in existance at the same time was more upscale than the Integra. From a luxury brand image standpoint, it would have been better to make the VIGOR/TL line the ACURA entry level, and badge the Integra as a Honda. Lexus established its luxury bona fides from the start. The first Lexus was the LS, and it was a luxury home run. Acura has never had anything that upscale. The legend was great in its own right, and very popular, but it did not have the upscale image of the LS. The 1st gen RL was more luxurious than the Legend, but it never made so much as a ripple in the marketplace, so it really had no impact. IMHO the only mistake Lexus has made was the first generation ES, which was too obviously a re-badged Camry. It was obviously a stop-gap measure until the first real ES was ready.
10-13-2004, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by missmyprelude
Wow! Well stated. I actually agree with most of what you have to say here for once. There's not much that any sane individual could argue about. Facts are facts.
One thing that some people talk about that I definitely don't agree with - Acura not building quality cars. Someone mentioned a long term quality test? Well, JD Power does put out what they call a "Vehicle Dependability Survey" (basically how well the car fares after 3 years).
http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases...asp?ID=2004055
You'll notice that Lexus/Toyota dominates this (as well as the Initial Quality Survey). What you'll also notice, however, is that the previous generation TL and the MDX also appear on this survey. Not to mention that Acura/Honda nameplates as a whole are well above average with American Honda placing second in corporate rankings to Toyota.
So much for Acura not making good quality cars. Where's BMW, MB, and Audi? See for yourself. Some of you may be surprised, while many of us aren't.
One thing that some people talk about that I definitely don't agree with - Acura not building quality cars. Someone mentioned a long term quality test? Well, JD Power does put out what they call a "Vehicle Dependability Survey" (basically how well the car fares after 3 years).
http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases...asp?ID=2004055
You'll notice that Lexus/Toyota dominates this (as well as the Initial Quality Survey). What you'll also notice, however, is that the previous generation TL and the MDX also appear on this survey. Not to mention that Acura/Honda nameplates as a whole are well above average with American Honda placing second in corporate rankings to Toyota.
So much for Acura not making good quality cars. Where's BMW, MB, and Audi? See for yourself. Some of you may be surprised, while many of us aren't.
A lot of people really have no idea what luxury is. Leather and wood does not make a luxury car. Wood and nails does not make an outstanding house. Cotton and stitching does not make a great suit.
Acura is doing splendid. 16% sales growth this year. Above average reliability ratings. Acura has PURPOSELY positioned itself at Tier 2 and is doing well at it.
A problem Acura had was the RL. For 8 years it provided no "halo" no "flagship status" over the Acura sedans. When the TL was re-designed in 1999 and even to the new 3rd gen, people PREFER the TL to the RL. Even with the new re-designed RL, the TL owners have a pretty strong arguement that their car, though 15k less is just as good.
With Lexus, owners CLEARLY understand as the price goes up, the car is worth it. Simply put.
SC and LS>GS>IS/ES
LX>GX>RX
This gives a feeling of luxury as those with the lower priced cars see the higher priced ones as something to aspire too. In comparison, the TL is STILL arguably the best Acura sold.
With Lexus you also can truly modify your car. There is tons of aftermarket support to customize your Lexus. Acura's aftermarket is really the RSX. Not much for the other cars.
Simply, luxury means RWD and V-8 offerings (and larger engines). Not saying cars without those features cannot be luxury cars, but worldwide, that is the way it is. We didn't make the rules. It's just the way it is. Otherwise, the Benz S class would not offer a V-8 or turbo/SC cars or a V-12. There would be no V-8 and V-12 BMWs. Audi A8s would be FWD if it truly didn't matter.
It does.
10-13-2004, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by rjheard
I have to agree. I am at this site becuase I am considering getting a new TL (currently have GS400) which is one of the front runners for me. I love the GS but want something a little more nimble. Some of the people here argue like these are their damn kids competing! I doubt anyone here designed one of these vehicles. Love them or not they are just cars and in two or three years you'll be ready for the next best thing. As for Lexus the service is better than any car I have previously owned. My GS400 had to be in the shop for a TSB and while I paid nothing, got a loaner (RX330) Lexus still sent an apology letter and two $100 prepaid fuel cards. I never got that with BMW, Honda, or Acura...
And as for your prepaid gas cards, please enjoy them....(thats what happends when you overpay for a car thats not worth it) The moneys coming from your pocket....lol....
I'm sure bill gates isn't driving a SC-400 still.. so if you can post something thats not so dated that would shut me up!!!!
And the KID keeps fighting on....
10-13-2004, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ward148
I think its funny that most of the negative comments on this Thread come from non-TL owners...(it's pretty clear there's nothing happening on the Lexus Forums, with your 4+ users) so is that why you Lexus loves spend so much time here??? I highly doubt your looking at the TL so thats probably not why your here. And if your looking for something alittle more nimble why not the IS300.....(i even think theres many out there posing as TL owns, just so thay can Flame Acura)
And as for your prepaid gas cards, please enjoy them....(thats what happends when you overpay for a car thats not worth it) The moneys coming from your pocket....lol....
I'm sure bill gates isn't driving a SC-400 still.. so if you can post something thats not so dated that would shut me up!!!!
And the KID keeps fighting on....
And as for your prepaid gas cards, please enjoy them....(thats what happends when you overpay for a car thats not worth it) The moneys coming from your pocket....lol....
I'm sure bill gates isn't driving a SC-400 still.. so if you can post something thats not so dated that would shut me up!!!!
And the KID keeps fighting on....
As for your comments towards me. I stated you have high quality wheels (Lowenharts right?). I also stated 20s on a TL look ridiculous and a STAGGERED, WIDER WHEEL in the back of your FWD car serves absolutely no purpose. Those are views on that setup, not that car.
Some kid on our forum did the same thing. Staggered 19"RH M-1s on his FWD ES. I told him it will look ignorant at the car shows he competes in and the ride will suffer and he may hit the suspension. In his quest to look "cool" and be a "poseur" he ignored the comments.
Currently he is trying to sell the wheels. The suspension was not built for that set-up and he had to many problems with it.
And lol, the comments at the ES owners trying to fit 20s.....sigh......
10-14-2004, 12:14 AM
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by the way... you dun cut grass with bmw or mercede bens... but you can with honda...
let me put this way.... honda is a company specialize in making "efficient" motor/engine, their engineers makes many wonderful engine can be used for various application and they are also the great tech innovators. They are first one come out with VTEC where everyone has to play catch up with them (they all catch now). Honda dominated Formula One Racing from 1986~1992. 1992 Honda announced withdraw from F1. Basically most of European Auto maker was scare and they propose change the F1 rules which F1 also accepts. Every rule change was to against Honda.
let me put this way.... honda is a company specialize in making "efficient" motor/engine, their engineers makes many wonderful engine can be used for various application and they are also the great tech innovators. They are first one come out with VTEC where everyone has to play catch up with them (they all catch now). Honda dominated Formula One Racing from 1986~1992. 1992 Honda announced withdraw from F1. Basically most of European Auto maker was scare and they propose change the F1 rules which F1 also accepts. Every rule change was to against Honda.
10-14-2004, 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
Why R U fighting? These car car forums. THey are BETTER when people with other views, backgrounds and cars post with facts or opinions (not POS comments).
As for your comments towards me. I stated you have high quality wheels (Lowenharts right?). I also stated 20s on a TL look ridiculous and a STAGGERED, WIDER WHEEL in the back of your FWD car serves absolutely no purpose. Those are views on that setup, not that car.
Some kid on our forum did the same thing. Staggered 19"RH M-1s on his FWD ES. I told him it will look ignorant at the car shows he competes in and the ride will suffer and he may hit the suspension. In his quest to look "cool" and be a "poseur" he ignored the comments.
Currently he is trying to sell the wheels. The suspension was not built for that set-up and he had to many problems with it.
And lol, the comments at the ES owners trying to fit 20s.....sigh......
As for your comments towards me. I stated you have high quality wheels (Lowenharts right?). I also stated 20s on a TL look ridiculous and a STAGGERED, WIDER WHEEL in the back of your FWD car serves absolutely no purpose. Those are views on that setup, not that car.
Some kid on our forum did the same thing. Staggered 19"RH M-1s on his FWD ES. I told him it will look ignorant at the car shows he competes in and the ride will suffer and he may hit the suspension. In his quest to look "cool" and be a "poseur" he ignored the comments.
Currently he is trying to sell the wheels. The suspension was not built for that set-up and he had to many problems with it.
And lol, the comments at the ES owners trying to fit 20s.....sigh......
....(im sure i can go throw your history and find some great stuff you've posted)....And lately your post have been allot nicer, so if that's what comes from all this i'm happy Now you love to pic apart cars so i tried looking for pics of your ride on your website. (so i can get it right next time)......(but i cant seem to find anything).....Anyone can say anything about my car or me. (freedom of speech) Just dont be an ass about it, like 1SICKLEX....(And thats coming from someone that's being one)
I've never attacked anyone with a TL...(There's many Acura owners on this forum that hate what i say) but when people come and post on this site and talkshit about Acura's and thay dont even own one.....(thats ridiculous).....I dont care who posted what or even what kind of car thay drive...but when people start flaming like 1SICKLEX.....(but i do like the attitude change)
I'll start flaming back, you just made it easy for me because i already don't really care for Lexus...And for all the Acura TL owner's that i offended.....Sorry.....The 1SICKLEX thing turned into a Lexus thing.....(my bad).....
10-14-2004, 01:26 AM
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[QUOTE=2K2SilverTL-S]
This is a guys sig line on another forum
The Acura Legend is a work of art. Heres what Ludacris has to say about it:
" Champagne 93 Acura Legend, just got the leather redone on the inside. It looks like new. Its beautiful. 180,000 miles on it, it still rides like I just pulled that b***h of the lot. Yeah. "
Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
This thread=
Shoot just listen to any rap song (what is now the top selling music). Acura is never mentioned.
QUOTE]
Notorious BIG- "Now my mom pimps an ACK....."
Jay Z- "And we, clap the doors on our Acuras....."
Think again about that statement......
Also, remind me again why you have 11,000 posts here.....and why you want to get an NSX sooooooo bad (as per your postings on clublexus.com)???
Shoot just listen to any rap song (what is now the top selling music). Acura is never mentioned.
QUOTE]
Notorious BIG- "Now my mom pimps an ACK....."
Jay Z- "And we, clap the doors on our Acuras....."
Think again about that statement......
Also, remind me again why you have 11,000 posts here.....and why you want to get an NSX sooooooo bad (as per your postings on clublexus.com)???
This is a guys sig line on another forum
The Acura Legend is a work of art. Heres what Ludacris has to say about it:
" Champagne 93 Acura Legend, just got the leather redone on the inside. It looks like new. Its beautiful. 180,000 miles on it, it still rides like I just pulled that b***h of the lot. Yeah. "
10-14-2004, 02:16 AM
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Originally Posted by tommyt37
This is a guys sig line on another forum
The Acura Legend is a work of art. Heres what Ludacris has to say about it:
" Champagne 93 Acura Legend, just got the leather redone on the inside. It looks like new. Its beautiful. 180,000 miles on it, it still rides like I just pulled that b***h of the lot. Yeah. "
The Acura Legend is a work of art. Heres what Ludacris has to say about it:
" Champagne 93 Acura Legend, just got the leather redone on the inside. It looks like new. Its beautiful. 180,000 miles on it, it still rides like I just pulled that b***h of the lot. Yeah. "
Great guy....
10-14-2004, 07:11 AM
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I'll have to disagree with those that say that Lexus' are butt ugly. Although the ES seems a little bland and too much like the Camry, I really do like the GS styling. Even though it hasn't changed much since 1998, it still remains sharp and looks just as good or better with the 2006 redesign. Before I decided on the TL, I did look hard at the ES. The 2 things I enjoyed about it the most were the smooth ride and softer leather. However, I found it very boring to drive. The TL had a lot more "toys" and was more fun to drive. But, I am definately concerned about the build quality, the driveline vibration, and rattles. If I had a choice, I probably would buy a GS, but alas, I just don't have $40K+ to spend on a car. Plus, the fact that the most desirable features are sold as packages on the Lexus and drives up the price considerably.
10-14-2004, 08:06 AM
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Well, seems like everyone has an opinion on this. Here's another one in a Forbes article, which is brief, and includes some of the points already stated about Acura's marketing snafus...
http://www.forbes.com/columnists/200...0401flint.html
(Sorry, but I'm not sure how to automatically link this address)
For what it's worth, I have and do thoroughly enjoy my 2004 TL (VIN 61XXX), although it is still relatively new. Right now, I wouldn't trade it for a Lexus, Infiniti, or anything comparable.
It would be interesting to see the percentage of TL owners on this forum who have had legitimate build problems. I think there are many on this forum like myself who don't have that much to say because our experiences are terrific.
http://www.forbes.com/columnists/200...0401flint.html
(Sorry, but I'm not sure how to automatically link this address)
For what it's worth, I have and do thoroughly enjoy my 2004 TL (VIN 61XXX), although it is still relatively new. Right now, I wouldn't trade it for a Lexus, Infiniti, or anything comparable.
It would be interesting to see the percentage of TL owners on this forum who have had legitimate build problems. I think there are many on this forum like myself who don't have that much to say because our experiences are terrific.
10-14-2004, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by missmyprelude
Wow! Well stated. I actually agree with most of what you have to say here for once. There's not much that any sane individual could argue about. Facts are facts.
One thing that some people talk about that I definitely don't agree with - Acura not building quality cars. Someone mentioned a long term quality test? Well, JD Power does put out what they call a "Vehicle Dependability Survey" (basically how well the car fares after 3 years).
http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases...asp?ID=2004055
You'll notice that Lexus/Toyota dominates this (as well as the Initial Quality Survey). What you'll also notice, however, is that the previous generation TL and the MDX also appear on this survey. Not to mention that Acura/Honda nameplates as a whole are well above average with American Honda placing second in corporate rankings to Toyota.
So much for Acura not making good quality cars. Where's BMW, MB, and Audi? See for yourself. Some of you may be surprised, while many of us aren't.
One thing that some people talk about that I definitely don't agree with - Acura not building quality cars. Someone mentioned a long term quality test? Well, JD Power does put out what they call a "Vehicle Dependability Survey" (basically how well the car fares after 3 years).
http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases...asp?ID=2004055
You'll notice that Lexus/Toyota dominates this (as well as the Initial Quality Survey). What you'll also notice, however, is that the previous generation TL and the MDX also appear on this survey. Not to mention that Acura/Honda nameplates as a whole are well above average with American Honda placing second in corporate rankings to Toyota.
So much for Acura not making good quality cars. Where's BMW, MB, and Audi? See for yourself. Some of you may be surprised, while many of us aren't.
This study surveys people who have had their cars for 3 years (2001 models in this 2004 survey). People whine about their TL's rattles but Acura has 212 problems per 100 cars while M-B is in the bottom third of the list with 327! Land Rover is last on the list with 472! Do people think that an $80,000 SUV should be problem free?
An interesting thing on the list is that Lexus (162) is much better than Toyota (216). Within the same company, the assembly techniques are probably the same but Lexus assembly line workers are hand picked for their experience and quality record and there are likely extra quality controls on the assembly line. This makes sense. Why does Honda (209) and Acura (212) have essentially the same dependability rankings? They're both in the top 20% but shouldn't Acura reliability be BETTER than Honda's?
10-14-2004, 09:18 AM
#98
Drifting
Originally Posted by Brokedoc
An interesting thing on the list is that Lexus (162) is much better than Toyota (216). Within the same company, the assembly techniques are probably the same but Lexus assembly line workers are hand picked for their experience and quality record and there are likely extra quality controls on the assembly line. This makes sense. Why does Honda (209) and Acura (212) have essentially the same dependability rankings? They're both in the top 20% but shouldn't Acura reliability be BETTER than Honda's?
that one dude seems to not believe me when I said Japanese cars are much better made... But all Lexus (with exception of the new RX330 are made in Japan. However most toyotas are made in the US.
10-14-2004, 09:32 AM
#99
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Originally Posted by ward148
I'm not fighting, just having fun with "RLheard" calling me a kid....lol....(but you must of missed that) Now i've been watching your post for a long time, well before your comments on my car.....(so dont think it's that) There's so many post out there were your just a complete ass ....(im sure i can go throw your history and find some great stuff you've posted)....And lately your post have been allot nicer, so if that's what comes from all this i'm happy
Now you love to pic apart cars so i tried looking for pics of your ride on your website. (so i can get it right next time)......(but i cant seem to find anything).....Anyone can say anything about my car or me. (freedom of speech) Just dont be an ass about it, like 1SICKLEX....(And thats coming from someone that's being one)
I've never attacked anyone with a TL...(There's many Acura owners on this forum that hate what i say) but when people come and post on this site and talkshit about Acura's and thay dont even own one.....(thats ridiculous).....I dont care who posted what or even what kind of car thay drive...but when people start flaming like 1SICKLEX.....(but i do like the attitude change) I'll start flaming back, you just made it easy for me because i already don't really care for Lexus...
And for all the Acura TL owner's that i offended.....Sorry.....The 1SICKLEX thing turned into a Lexus thing.....(my bad).....
....(im sure i can go throw your history and find some great stuff you've posted)....And lately your post have been allot nicer, so if that's what comes from all this i'm happy Now you love to pic apart cars so i tried looking for pics of your ride on your website. (so i can get it right next time)......(but i cant seem to find anything).....Anyone can say anything about my car or me. (freedom of speech) Just dont be an ass about it, like 1SICKLEX....(And thats coming from someone that's being one)
I've never attacked anyone with a TL...(There's many Acura owners on this forum that hate what i say) but when people come and post on this site and talkshit about Acura's and thay dont even own one.....(thats ridiculous).....I dont care who posted what or even what kind of car thay drive...but when people start flaming like 1SICKLEX.....(but i do like the attitude change)
I'll start flaming back, you just made it easy for me because i already don't really care for Lexus...And for all the Acura TL owner's that i offended.....Sorry.....The 1SICKLEX thing turned into a Lexus thing.....(my bad).....
I think its funny that most of the negative comments on this Thread come from non-TL owners...(it's pretty clear there's nothing happening on the Lexus Forums, with your 4+ users) so is that why you Lexus loves spend so much time here??? I highly doubt your looking at the TL so thats probably not why your here. And if your looking for something alittle more nimble why not the IS300.....(i even think theres many out there posing as TL owns, just so thay can Flame Acura)
And as for your prepaid gas cards, please enjoy them....(thats what happends when you overpay for a car thats not worth it) The moneys coming from your pocket....lol....
I'm sure bill gates isn't driving a SC-400 still.. so if you can post something thats not so dated that would shut me up!!!!
================================================== ========
If you pay attention I did not call you a "kid" or say anything remotely negative about the TL or Acura. I said some of the people who post here act as if the cars are their kids. This reminds me of overeager parents at a little league game. I just don't understand what the point of bashing one brand or the other serves. For the record I am looking at the TL, G35, A4 and some others too. As for the IS300 I really don't like the interior that much. I'm sure Bill Gates doesn't drive the SC-400 anymore but the point was saying "anyone who drives a Lexus is a loser" is rediculous. The current crop of Lexus cars may not be for you but to say anyone who drives one is a loser is a stupid statement, one that would probably come from a "kid".
10-14-2004, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by te3point5
that one dude seems to not believe me when I said Japanese cars are much better made... But all Lexus (with exception of the new RX330 are made in Japan. However most toyotas are made in the US.
However, you can't make a blanket statement like Japanese cars are better made than others. Isuzu is Japanese and it came in 4th from the bottom of the list. Suzuki and Mitsu are also dwindling down there. Nissan is worse than Ford, Saturn, and Chevy. All I'm trying to say is that well designed cars and good assembly techniques are more important than country of origin.
10-14-2004, 09:49 AM
#101
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by EluSiOn
by the way... you dun cut grass with bmw or mercede bens... but you can with honda...
10-14-2004, 10:02 AM
#102
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The state of art
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10-14-2004, 10:02 AM
#103
Drifting
Originally Posted by Brokedoc
Listen, DUDE. I'm Asian and all for the stereotype that asians have a better work ethic, produce higher quality products and are all good at math.
However, you can't make a blanket statement like Japanese cars are better made than others. Isuzu is Japanese and it came in 4th from the bottom of the list. Suzuki and Mitsu are also dwindling down there. Nissan is worse than Ford, Saturn, and Chevy. All I'm trying to say is that well designed cars and good assembly techniques are more important than country of origin.
However, you can't make a blanket statement like Japanese cars are better made than others. Isuzu is Japanese and it came in 4th from the bottom of the list. Suzuki and Mitsu are also dwindling down there. Nissan is worse than Ford, Saturn, and Chevy. All I'm trying to say is that well designed cars and good assembly techniques are more important than country of origin.
First of all, I wasn't talking about you, second, I'm asian too, and I think I'm the laziest person in the world. (I'm actually at work right now)
So then if Lexus ES 330, and the toyta Camry are for all intents and purposes, the same car, then why would the Toyota have more complaints generally than the lexus? Same design, pretty much same parts. THe only basic variable thats different is that one os made in Japan, and the other in America, I wasn't saying anything about Work Ethic, I was more talking about quality control and standards being higher over there.
Suzuki is not a reputable car company to begin with, so no matter what, their cars suck.
Mitsubishi makes alot of products, Boats, TVs, cars, many household appliances. And although their car reputation may not be as high up in the States as toyota or Acura, they still make pretty decent cars from what I've seen.
And Further more, Nissan Does suck, my maxima, although has a very good engine, is very poorly put together, rattles, shakes, etc. My maxima is American made.
My Previous car, a 97 Maxima was built in Japan, and was Extremely well made. All panels lined up, no rattles, even after so many miles. my car now has 36k on it and shakes likea mofo on the inside.
10-14-2004, 10:11 AM
#105
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by te3point5
And Further more, Nissan Does suck, my maxima, although has a very good engine, is very poorly put together, rattles, shakes, etc. My maxima is American made.
My Previous car, a 97 Maxima was built in Japan, and was Extremely well made. All panels lined up, no rattles, even after so many miles. my car now has 36k on it and shakes likea mofo on the inside.
....all the more reason for a brake upgrade.
10-14-2004, 10:14 AM
#106
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by EluSiOn
The state of art
HRX217TDA
Powerful GCV190 Overhead Cam (OHC) 6.5 HP Engine
3-speed Transmission
Versamow System™
Xenoy® Deck
Microcut™ Twin Blades
9-inch Wheels
Flywheel Brake
HRX217TDA
Powerful GCV190 Overhead Cam (OHC) 6.5 HP Engine
3-speed Transmission
Versamow System™
Xenoy® Deck
Microcut™ Twin Blades
9-inch Wheels
Flywheel Brake
10-14-2004, 10:14 AM
#107
Drifting
Originally Posted by F23A4
The 5G Maxima is made in Japan, AFAIK. That said, my 02 Maxima doesnt have ANY rattles or shakes. The only complaint I have about it is that it has weak brakes. ....all the more reason for a brake upgrade.
....all the more reason for a brake upgrade. hey, are you on the .org? Yeah, tell me about it when it comes to the tiny ass rotors...
I thought the 5.5 Gens were made in US. THe 6th gens are def made in America I think.
10-14-2004, 11:33 AM
#108
Ak Ting Up
Originally Posted by EluSiOn
The state of art
HRX217TDA
Powerful GCV190 Overhead Cam (OHC) 6.5 HP Engine
3-speed Transmission
Versamow System™
Xenoy® Deck
Microcut™ Twin Blades
9-inch Wheels
Flywheel Brake
HRX217TDA
Powerful GCV190 Overhead Cam (OHC) 6.5 HP Engine
3-speed Transmission
Versamow System™
Xenoy® Deck
Microcut™ Twin Blades
9-inch Wheels
Flywheel Brake
10-14-2004, 01:32 PM
#109
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Originally Posted by EluSiOn
The state of art
HRX217TDA
Powerful GCV190 Overhead Cam (OHC) 6.5 HP Engine
3-speed Transmission
Versamow System™
Xenoy® Deck
Microcut™ Twin Blades
9-inch Wheels
Flywheel Brake
HRX217TDA
Powerful GCV190 Overhead Cam (OHC) 6.5 HP Engine
3-speed Transmission
Versamow System™
Xenoy® Deck
Microcut™ Twin Blades
9-inch Wheels
Flywheel Brake
[IMG] thought the 5.5 Gens were made in US. THe 6th gens are def made in America I think.[/IMG] This is correct. Also 6th gens are now built on a stretched Altima platform. 5th gen>6th gen
10-14-2004, 08:18 PM
#110
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whoever said Asians are productive and are all good at math. Does this mean the Asian gangsters who deal in Ecstasy or the the Asian girls in the "massage parlors" are good in math?
10-14-2004, 10:15 PM
#111
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Acura has some 'issues' as to why they might not be seen as a 'true' luxury brand. These are some:
1) With the RSX, and the EL in Canada, Acura has some relatively inexpensive vehicles that end up in the hands of a younger clientele than would normally be associated with luxury brand ownership. I believe this is a prudent strategy on Acura's part to hook buyers into the brand at a young age.
2) Acura's are mostly FWD when the current market perception is that RWD is the mark of a luxury car. Think what you will.
3) Acura does not have a V8. Same perception issue as 2) above. I believe Acura/Honda has decided the cost of developing at V8 (and the S-Class/7-Series fighter to go with it!) is prohibitive given the benefit it would give a company that is already known for its engine technology.
4) perhaps related to 2) above, there is a perception amongst some car buyers that Acuras are 'the best Honda Accords you could ever imagine'. Why the Lexus ES330, which is more closely akin to the Camry than the TL is to the Accord, or the A4 to the Passat, or the G35 to the Altima, doesn't fall into a similar image trap is largely a matter of marketing.
Flames etc. welcome
1) With the RSX, and the EL in Canada, Acura has some relatively inexpensive vehicles that end up in the hands of a younger clientele than would normally be associated with luxury brand ownership. I believe this is a prudent strategy on Acura's part to hook buyers into the brand at a young age.
2) Acura's are mostly FWD when the current market perception is that RWD is the mark of a luxury car. Think what you will.
3) Acura does not have a V8. Same perception issue as 2) above. I believe Acura/Honda has decided the cost of developing at V8 (and the S-Class/7-Series fighter to go with it!) is prohibitive given the benefit it would give a company that is already known for its engine technology.
4) perhaps related to 2) above, there is a perception amongst some car buyers that Acuras are 'the best Honda Accords you could ever imagine'. Why the Lexus ES330, which is more closely akin to the Camry than the TL is to the Accord, or the A4 to the Passat, or the G35 to the Altima, doesn't fall into a similar image trap is largely a matter of marketing.
Flames etc. welcome
10-14-2004, 11:02 PM
#112
Drifting
Originally Posted by parabolica
Acura has some 'issues' as to why they might not be seen as a 'true' luxury brand. These are some:
1) With the RSX, and the EL in Canada, Acura has some relatively inexpensive vehicles that end up in the hands of a younger clientele than would normally be associated with luxury brand ownership. I believe this is a prudent strategy on Acura's part to hook buyers into the brand at a young age.
2) Acura's are mostly FWD when the current market perception is that RWD is the mark of a luxury car. Think what you will.
3) Acura does not have a V8. Same perception issue as 2) above. I believe Acura/Honda has decided the cost of developing at V8 (and the S-Class/7-Series fighter to go with it!) is prohibitive given the benefit it would give a company that is already known for its engine technology.
4) perhaps related to 2) above, there is a perception amongst some car buyers that Acuras are 'the best Honda Accords you could ever imagine'. Why the Lexus ES330, which is more closely akin to the Camry than the TL is to the Accord, or the A4 to the Passat, or the G35 to the Altima, doesn't fall into a similar image trap is largely a matter of marketing.
Flames etc. welcome
1) With the RSX, and the EL in Canada, Acura has some relatively inexpensive vehicles that end up in the hands of a younger clientele than would normally be associated with luxury brand ownership. I believe this is a prudent strategy on Acura's part to hook buyers into the brand at a young age.
2) Acura's are mostly FWD when the current market perception is that RWD is the mark of a luxury car. Think what you will.
3) Acura does not have a V8. Same perception issue as 2) above. I believe Acura/Honda has decided the cost of developing at V8 (and the S-Class/7-Series fighter to go with it!) is prohibitive given the benefit it would give a company that is already known for its engine technology.
4) perhaps related to 2) above, there is a perception amongst some car buyers that Acuras are 'the best Honda Accords you could ever imagine'. Why the Lexus ES330, which is more closely akin to the Camry than the TL is to the Accord, or the A4 to the Passat, or the G35 to the Altima, doesn't fall into a similar image trap is largely a matter of marketing.
Flames etc. welcome
10-15-2004, 03:36 AM
#113
I personally looked at every 4 door car when i went looking for a new car. I went to every kind of dealership from Ford to Jaguar every kind there is except Kia of course (there just something wrong with buy one get one free cars) The TL just seemed to fit my personality. Price dosent make a car classey or anything of that nature. I dont know about you but my TL plenty of heads
10-15-2004, 09:06 AM
#114
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
I laughed so hard at this it wasn't even funny......
10-15-2004, 09:12 AM
#115
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by te3point5
hey, are you on the .org? Yeah, tell me about it when it comes to the tiny ass rotors...
I thought the 5.5 Gens were made in US. THe 6th gens are def made in America I think.
I thought the 5.5 Gens were made in US. THe 6th gens are def made in America I think.
Also, the 5.5G Max was built in Oppama, Japan, which is one of the reasons why I chose it over the Alti 3.5SE.
12-02-2004, 03:23 PM
#116
Originally Posted by TXTL
I hate the fact that Honda and Acura share parts. It's OK to use the same part but they should be brand named. This is my 4th Acura and all the windows say "Honda". As for price, Acura has taken the approach of offering a value priced line of autos. I'm more than able to purchase a Lexus or BMW but why spend the extra money. Acura offers a similar if not better auto less money. I'm very happy with my Acura logos vs. those others...
I think a lot of people get it twisted. My wife have a Infiniti with Nissan on the windows, my brother in law and a friend of mine both have lexus(GS AND IS) with Toyota on their windows. My brother in law with the GS even gets his serviced at Toyota because the service charges are cheaper and it has Toyata parts.
12-02-2004, 03:52 PM
#117
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Originally Posted by RJANACONDA
I personally looked at every 4 door car when i went looking for a new car. I went to every kind of dealership from Ford to Jaguar every kind there is ....
kudos to your persistence
12-02-2004, 03:52 PM
#118
Drifting
Originally Posted by sufall96
I think a lot of people get it twisted. My wife have a Infiniti with Nissan on the windows, my brother in law and a friend of mine both have lexus(GS AND IS) with Toyota on their windows. My brother in law with the GS even gets his serviced at Toyota because the service charges are cheaper and it has Toyata parts.
12-02-2004, 08:08 PM
#119
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Originally Posted by xfact0r
Part of it has to do with Lexus' marketing. They market strictly towards a higher end market whereas Acura markets to a much broader market. I tend to find more Acura drivers are car enthusiasts as opposed to Lexus drivers, based on personal experience. When you mention to a Lexus owner that the IS300 is really a Toyota rebranded with the Lexus badge and only offered for sale as a Lexus in North America, they chose to live in ignorance. My 2 cents...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Acura TSX is supposed to be the Honda Accord in Japan.
I agree with you on the fact that Toyota and Lexus are more of marketting differences than technology. A lot of these rebranding is targetted not only at the customers but also at getting around trade laws, so as to maximise profits.
When I was test driving cars to find what I would like to buy, the Camry XLE V6 and ES330 had the same delayed response in their "Drive by throttle" systems. Same beer, different bottle.
