TheAcAvenger

Some first year undergrad has his mom's 04 TL for the week. He saw my 02 TL-S and wanted to see if I'd give him a go before we all went home for the summer. I was pretty shocked that some kid would come up to me to ask me that. I havent really done anything of that sort since I was, well, his age. But up here there are more than enough empty roads (most leading towards west virginia) that I think we could actually give it a go. But I'm posting because I thought an 04 would take me pretty easily, even in auto. Why would he want to bother with something that he knew he could beat? Could I really give him a challenge? I'm basically bone-stock. The only advantage I have is that maybe since its his mom's car he wont push it to the max (since he has to give it back in one piece and such). Mine's on its way out the door anyway, so I wont have any gripes about pushing it to the max as a going out party (before my shiny Silverstone S2K arrives at the dealership ). Do I actually have a chance? or should I just go home with my tail between my legs (I wouldnt really do that, of course, i have SOME dignity)?

TheAcAvenger

FYI, the 04 is also completely stock. Freshly broken in with about 2k miles on it. Mine has a little under 75k miles on it (Still on my 2nd tranny- the first never died, they just called me in to get a new one- go figure). From what i've read from the search feature. Some posts say that I should win because i'm slightly lighter and the drive-by-wire technology makes a bit sluggish. I think it was road and track that has me running 0-60 faster and car and driver that has him doing it faster. Motor trend has us both running 6.3s. I couldnt find any comparable quarter mile data or 40-100 data. But i'm pretty sure there's no way we'll go in excess of 100 (the speed limit on the road we're using is 70, if i'm not mistaken). He seems pretty level headed, and i've been driving hondas for 8 years without getting in an accident (except for the time someone hit my car in a mall parking lot) or getting a ticket (I got a warning, but he let me off- (note to all: "put an I support local police" sticker on your back window).

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

Driver's race. It will all depend on the driver. Take it slow and get the launch right. Launch is half the race.

TheAcAvenger

Any recommendations? I've never really launched my TL before. I could launch the dickens out of the old 'Lude, but the concept of a neutral drop in the TL (especially with all those tranny failures) seems totally out of the question. So I figure VSA off, Traction Control off (I'd definitely get them back on when it going) would help. Maybe I could go as far as to remove the spare tire out the back first? I know how to turn the VSA off, but is there a button to turn off TCS?

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

TCS is integrated into the VSA in the Type-S. All you have to do is push the "VSA Off" button next to the moonroof button, confirm that the amber triangle light with the exclamation point lights up. Now there's no computer telling you what to do.

The best way to launch the TL (and for God's sake, please NEVER neutral drop an automatic transmission) is to get on the brake with your left foot a little bit with the right foot on the gas pedal. Bring up the RPM to about 2000 RPM and apply just enough brake pressure to keep the car steady.

When the flag drops, let off the brake right away, but ease into the gas pedal. You will know if your tires are spinning -- if you are spinning a lot (car not moving much) then let off throttle and get back in it. If you're not spinning much, then keep in it and the tires will regain traction.

Go practice a few times in a parking or something.

TL260power

ok... let me get this straight... VSA is on when the orange triangle light is off? and off when the light is on?

kabota

when the light is on the vsa is off

Indyjenks

dont leave it in D5 or use sportshift! Gate shift from 1st to 2nd...after that, you can pop it up to D4 or D5, wont make any difference. Car shifts too soon from 1st to 2nd in either D5 or sportshift. Whenever I want MAX performance, I gate shift.

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

I would actually recommend not doing that for this guy, since (and I'm assuming here) he probably doesn't gate-shift on a regular basis, or if ever. Gate-shifting will only increase the chances of a screw-up, such as hitting the rev limiter, and therefore lose the race.

I gate-shift at the track and on the streets sometimes. I still mess up once in a while.

Just launch it with minimal tire spin, keep the pedal buried and keep an eye out straight ahead. Keep it safe and have fun.

TL260power

REALLY... are you sure... I swear i must of read in our manuals that its reverse... Vsa light on means on...

damn.. all this time I have had it on which i thought light off means off....

keepingitclean

where do you guys shift at when gate shifitng?

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

I honestly don't know. I just look at the tachometer and shift, and according to the V-AFC II's digital tachometer, it says the shift occurs at just before 6900 RPM. It's a visual thing for me. I wish I could provide a number, but I can't.

Indyjenks

...about 500-600 rpm's before redline. There is a pause between when YOU shift and when the TRANNY shifts. Takes some getting used to but it will definately hustle you through quicker than either full auto or sportshift.

Indyjenks

Nope, light ON means off. If you look at the light, it has an exclamation point in the middle. Kind of a warning to be careful.

TL260power

maybe thats why when i race my car doesnt feel like its pulling hard on some cars i know i can beat...

SLAMMED_WDP_TLS

I wouldnt gate shift if you dont do it or havent practice it. so If I were you I will leave it in SS since it eliminate error. I am really not impress by the new TL. I ran 2 and both of them kinda just hung around. I have I/h/e/p so I am suppose to be faster but I kinda left them standing. I think both were auto since I didnt see the brembo red calipers on the front but Just not impressed. Both races were from about 65 on. I think give it a go. win or lose it wouldnt be bad both ways unless someone does something weird

aaronnn

you guys are saying gate shifting is the best if you know how to do it, but i have a 99TL (and an 03), but in the 99 when you throw it in sports shift, it doesnt go from gear 1 to 2 in an instant, it stays at one unless i shift up. so does it matter if i gate or sports shift on mine? would it be the same results? just wondering and sorry to get off topic alittle bit.

good luck with the race.

Acuraluvr

iTrader: (2)

car and driver got a 6.7 run with 2003 type-s......

patrick

that's right, in the 99 you have to manually shift from 1 to 2. so technically you can make your 99 rev all the way to redline before shifting. from what i read, gate shifting is still faster than using sport shift, even for the 99. but i'm more comfortable using SS than gate shifting.

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

The SportShift in our cars is not designed for lightning-quick shifts like SMG, DSG, etc. It's primarily meant for holding a gear around a corner to increase the exit speed, and deter downshifting through turns (upsets vehicle dynamics).

I gate shift at the track. After a visit to the dealership for an issue totally unrelated to the transmission, my car came back shifting at 6300 RPM (6900 RPM redline, Type-S) from first to second. They probably updated the TCM to save transmissions and didn't even tell me. Shady fuckers. Anyway, so now I have to gate-shift in order to squeeze out every RPM possible before upshifting. I've achieved the fastest times by gate-shifting.

JAG

Please explain the concept of Gate Shifting?

Thnx

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

PRND4321, with SS slot on the left.

Gate shifting is when you put the gear shifter down to the 1st gear gate, and manually shift it by pushing it up to the next gear gate.

This helps, because our SportShift (except for in '99) upshifts from first to second automatically. The only way to gain full command of 1->2 upshift is by selecting the first gear manually all the way down.

Gate shifting takes time to learn, in order to nail the upshift at or near redline. I've had it as close as 6890 RPM (6900 RPM redline) or as bad as hitting the rev limiter. I would strongly recommend against using this method on a daily basis, because it's best to let the computer decide the shift points. But in case of performance driving, most notably the drag strip, gate shifting is highly recommended in our cars.

JAG

Thanks for the insight. I use SS all the time, which I tap up or down. I think what your describing is forcing the 1st and 2nd gear gate which is a side shift, left to right, below D3. Is that right?

BiggyMcWang

While gate shifting, do you release or let up on the gas or do u continue holding it. I'm never a fan of auto's because of this .... but hey, the TL-S never came in 6spd so I couldn't help it. Still prefer to control the engagement with a clutch.


Summary:
1st Gear - 6800 RPM
2nd Gear - ????
3red Gear - ????

Thanks. Reason I ask is my buddy has a 78 vette which he gate shifts, but it's different from my car so I never asked him about it. Now the guy has a 6spd C5 as well LOL.

ASPEC05

I think the S type would win bc the HP diff isnt much (10) and plus the weight diff is somewhat significant.

badazzTL

go type S!! let us know what happens

badazzTL

BTW i hate you for getting an s2k. ur a lucky guy. one day I hope to own one as well.

Ga_Tech_TL

s2k are nice but arent they (s2k and the TL) about the same price? For me, the TL was just more practical... but i may have went with the s2k now that i think back

mezzerTL-S

In my car the rev limiter doesn't kick in until 6930 (Apex-i VAFC) when I'm in SS so I don't worry about gate shifting, I say go for it and kick the 04's ass, I know I wouldn't pass it up.
Peace, Jeff

BiggyMcWang

You can DO IT!!! You only pay $2K more in insurance for having that Type-S badge on the boot!! Represent us!!

TheAcAvenger

Sorry for the delay. 04-er "rescheduled" because "had to go home for something family related." (I figured he was just bailing). But he CLAIMED that he'd be back in a week for sure. Sure enough, look a good honest man, he came back. I'll try to make this post as dramatic as I can, considering all the TL Type-S guys that want their bragging rights and all those 04-ers who think newer = better. I'll start off by saying that the 04 TL is a fine piece of automotive machinery, and regardless of the outcome, I will admit that it is one of the finest Acura's ever produced. But compliments aside, the story must be told. I began the day by washing and waxing her majesty. Cleaned the interior (it wasn't dirty to begin with, but a little vacuuming makes her happy, and when she's happy, she's faster, i'm tellin ya.) I checked tire pressure and oil levels and left her to be for the rest of the day. I was going to be all hardcore about it and remove the spare tire, but the concept of lugging the spare and its accessories up 3 flights of stairs into my already crowded apartment wasn't too great, and plus, i didn't want anyone to have any excuses. I decided to walk over to the gym instead of driving (heh, call me paranoid). Of course he was there, as he always is. We got everything comfirmed and decided to meet up at 8pm.

8pm, showdown time. He decided that he only wanted to do it once, from a DIG! We set a preset distance which I figured was a slight bit more than a quarter mile (the finish was marked by a sign). (At this point, i'm elated. All those TL-S posts about gate shifting (which I spent an entire day practicing) were going to pay off). He said he'd do the honks...I put her in neutral in gave her a little gas, to get that brake pedal down. I covered the brake with my left foot and began to rev her up to around 2k rpms (the 04 driver looked at me with a face as if to say "What the heck? How seriously is he taking this?" (I had that hardcore look on my face). Honk 1, Honk 2, GO!

Off the launch, the TL-S really had things clicking, I had him by a fender from the start (I'm guessing due to the launch technique and his drive-by-wire). I pulled him from 2nd to about 3/4 car length. Then he PULLS BACK to that same fender. BUT! At around 4k in 3rd, the TL-S starts slowly slowly slowly pulling away until the stop!!! I finished with him slightly off my bumper.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Assessment: I think on the second shift (2-->3), I shifted a bit late (about right AT redline). The TL-S gets peak power around 700 under redline (if i'm not mistaken). The launch realllllly helped me get out of the gates fast. That was definitely the closest race I've ever seen. The 04er was really cool about it. You could tell he was a bit upset, but with it being his mom's car, he didn't really feel too bad. If I ever see him again, I'll be sure to ask him if he wants a Type-S badge to make that sucker go faster. Heh, heh! TL-S!

Thanks to Indy, Patrick and Pure Adren for the techniques and to aaronn, badazz, and mezzer for the encouragement. And everyone should note the amount of 2nd Gens posting on this thread and the lack of 04-ers posting. Maybe its just that we're more sports oriented and they're..not? Okay, this gloating session is over. Congratulations on the 04ers for driving roomy, technologically advanced vehichles that are truly fast for size and price... almost as fast as the car they replace.

BiggyMcWang

You have honored the Type S Emblem.... now add another one on your car for +75 HP!!

mezzerTL-S

SWEET,

ASPEC05

3rd gen is not a racing car... i thought the race was pretty stupid. congrats on the kill though

Bobbydoedoe

congrats, get some headers and the result will be very different

ssk0771

That was pretty interesting. I would have thought 04' TL would have won.

I guess 10 HP doesn't make much difference.

Either way I think both TL-S & 04' TL are great cars.

Best bang for the buck. I was thinking of getting 05' TL for my second car but decided to get used Lexus SC430.

The only think I don't like about TL's are they are FWD other than that, its a great car with great options & performance.