azeemdadream

Hi all,

I've been a little hesitant to really drive my new 07 Type S really hard yet because of what I usually hear about not driving newer cars too fast until a certain amount of miles. I mean I've punched the accelerator just a few times just cause I couldn't resist but I usually drive fast all the time and it's frustrating to have to be subdued on the pedal. Can someone give me an educated reason on why we're not supposed to drive so hard in newer cars as well as a time frame mileage wise on when it's ok to do so finally.

blazinginder

I think after the first 1k miles...you should be good to go

groovyone789

i waited 600. followed the manual that acura gave and what the people at the dealers said.

azeemdadream

LoL...... thanks for your deep insight. How about a method to the madness?

azeemdadream

Groovyone, do you happen to remember what the manual said exactly? Was there certain speed that it said you are allowed to do after 600 or was it driving style that it was talking about?

groovyone789

Driving style, they said to also avoid maintaining constant speeds for too long. (not sure if that was the dealer or the manual). Also, when the car goes through its "talking stage" it says that the brakes learn your normal driving habits early on. I guess that lets it setup a profile for what it would consider "out of the ordinary braking" which would make the brake assist jump in. It might also be the new brakes... but either way it says not too brake to harsh during the break-in period as well.

Modulus

There are four main things you want to break-in properly. The engine, the clutch, the tires, and the brakes. It's not really, really difficult, but it does take some self control for the first 500-1000 miles.. The first 500 miles are the hardest.

The engine break-in is questionably important. Following proper break-in effectively results in an engine that will produce a few more hp/tq, and will wear better, and run a little longer. How much longer? I don't know, maybe only 10 miles. The argument is that the piston rings will seat properly and seal better. Some have said the piston rings are seated within the first 10 miles or the first hour the engine is running. Who can really know? The way I have broken-in engines in the past is something like this:
The first couple hundred miles or so, don't give it more than 1/3rd throttle and don't go past 1/3 redline. Then take it to 2/3 throttle, and 2/3 redline. After about 500 miles it's safe to go to full throttle and redline.
Also, in the first 500 miles, don't maintain constant speeds, aka, avoid the expressway.
The theory is that the engine will wear evenly across the RPM range if the engine is exposed only to varying speeds.
I've also heard to change the oil at 500 miles to get any of the worn metals out of the engine, but I'm pretty sure there is plenty of that type of discussion here if you want to read it.
I have heard to do a few 'hard' pulls during the first mile of the engine to initially seat the rings. IIRC, it involved accelerating and then leaving the car in gear, but letting off the clutch, apparently to repeatedly put pressure and vacuum on the rings in an alternating fashion.

There are four main things you want to break-in properly. The engine, the clutch, the tires, and the brakes. It's not really, really difficult, but it does take some self control for the first 500-1000 miles.. The first 500 miles are the hardest.

The engine break-in is questionably important. Following proper break-in effectively results in an engine that will produce a few more hp/tq, and will wear better, and run a little longer. How much longer? I don't know, maybe only 10 miles. The argument is that the piston rings will seat properly and seal better. Some have said the piston rings are seated within the first 10 miles or the first hour the engine is running. Who can really know? The way I have broken-in engines in the past is something like this:
The first couple hundred miles or so, don't give it more than 1/3rd throttle and don't go past 1/3 redline. Then take it to 2/3 throttle, and 2/3 redline. After about 500 miles it's safe to go to full throttle and redline.
Also, in the first 500 miles, don't maintain constant speeds, aka, avoid the expressway.
The theory is that the engine will wear evenly across the RPM range if the engine is exposed only to varying speeds.

Breaking-in the clutch is pretty easy, just don't drop it during that first 500 miles. When you pull away from a stop, let the clutch out at the lowest rpm that is sensible, aka, not 2000RPMs

The tires must be treated fairly during the first ~500 miles because they will wear unevenly if they're not. To prevent the tire from sticking to the mold, the factories use a release agent. Akin to spraying Pam on a cake pan. The release agent is in the outer layer of the tire. For this reason, taking the turns hard, or peeling out, will cause the tires to heat unevenly, and the release agent will wear off of some spots faster. This can lead to cupping or other similar issues.

I've heard varying reports pertaining to breaking-in brakes. Some say to break hard to heat up the rotors, but in my experience that ends up warping them. Personally, I'm not light on the brakes, and I'm not hard on them either, until they're broken-in
Riding them will sometimes cause them to glaze over, then they don't brake as well.

Of course, this all just what I do, you should do whatever you want. The internet is a cesspool of misinformation, and I make no claim to attempt to thwart that. I'm just giving you options.

jay0k

I've always heard to change the oil at 500 miles then again at 2,000 miles as there will be nasties in the engine when it's brand new.

The TL-S owners manually specially states to NOT do this. Some kind of special oil designed for it.

Slammed_JDM

The right way to break in a car is to step on it right when u drive out of the dealership. U break it hard it runs hard, u break it in like a lil gril its gonna run like a lil girl. lol. This is something ive always lived by and its proven in my book. Have done the same with all 3 of m cars, and my ATV and its proven.

azeemdadream

Modulus,

Thank you, that was very comprehensive and informative. I was just reading the manual last night and have to agree with Jay0k that it says specifically not to change the oil right away because it has special components designed to help break in the engine.

SlammedJDM,

I've actually heard this theory a lot too and I guess I'm just too chicken to do that to my first approx $40K car but I wouldn't doubt what you say because I've also seen my friend do this to his Audi S4 and it's still a beast.

onsknth

I wouldn't agree with that....


Yes... I have always broken in Cars, Trucks, Snowmobiles, Bikes and Boats the same way.

Run them like you're going to run them right from the get go.

Why?

The thought is this.

The major component being "broken in" is the piston ring to cylinder wall... Treating an engine too timidly during the beginning of it's life does not create enough cylinder pressure to seat the rings 90 degrees to the cylinder walls... Think of getting a seal that is something like this: |\ instead of something like this: ||... By running the engine hard you create enough cylinder pressure to keep the rings square to the cylinder wall, when the rings are square to the cylinder wall there is the most surface to area of the rings seating with the cylinder wall. Beveled or angled like this: |\ does not provide as good of a seal.

abouelmm

alright lets just ignore that

S PAW 1

I am confident that the multi billion dollar organization know as HONDA, IE:ACURA has spent mucho money behind the R&D when they issued specific break-in instructions. The new technologies in todays engines, much of which the general public is not informed of due to competitive reasons, doesn't permit second guessing if you want the most from your $40,000 machine.
Enjoy

onsknth

You're 150% correct, they did spend MUCHO $$$!!!!

It's called WARRANTY.

The difference in break-in methods I detailed will net you an ever so slight advantage on the track/dyno... Nothing that'll knock your socks off by any means, but it follows the same logic bike racers have when factoring in their exhaust outlet... (there's some proof that a specific angle at the outlet tip nets some gain)

So then as you pointed out Honda must know proper break-in... And they do, but keep in mind these are "consumer" cars and have "consumer warranties." As a result, the power gain being so minimal is traded for less warranty repairs.

To put it another way... There is nothing in the manual that tells you that by disabling VSA that you can burn rubber, but you can.

Modulus

I think most people just take their car to a 10-minute place and don't give a crap what the mechanic does or what oil they use. I also think that dealerships and car manufacturers sell a product that they want someone to buy every three years. Think about your shovel, you buy one, it lasts 20 years. Where would the car manufacturers be if each car ran perfectly for 20 years? If someone can tell me why oil filters have that spring-loaded valve design, I'll apologize. But don't tell me it's there to prevent oil starvation in the event of a filter clog, there's nothing in the engine but oil, which shouldn't clog the filter. It's the carbon deposits that build up in the oil that clogs the filter. Then the oil recirculating in the engine isn't filtered at all.. What am I missing?

There are some loooong posts on this forum pertaining to Used Oil Analysis, and IIRC those 'special components' in the original oil are present in most of the good oils that one might put in any car they cared about. The bottom line is that if you replace your oil at 500 miles, any metal that has worn off of the main bearings, connecting-rod bearings, crankshaft, rods, pistons, cams, etc.. won't be left in the engine. Personally, I think oil is cheap, I highly doubt good oil can cause damage to an engine, however, I don't think any worn metal that might be in the engine could possibly be good for it.

I'll always change the oil at 500 miles, then maybe again at 1000, then every 3000, or every 3 months, whichever comes first. But I couldn't care less what people do to vehicles that aren't mine..

Just don't use the cruise-control

Slammed_JDM, onsknth:

I agree that within the first 10 to 20 miles, you should 'beat on' a new engine to properly seat the rings. There are methodologies to the approach, and the net gains are minimal, as I stated before. But after that, the ideal break-in doesn't consist of only 'driving it hard' The main idea is not to drive at constant RPMs. Other than that, you should drive normal.
Here's a decent site that uses a lot of words to talk about the 'beat on a new engine' approach to properly seating the rings:
http://www.ntnoa.org/enginebreakin.htm

Again, it boils down to an engine that may or may not make a few more hp than it could. You can take the 'my car will have a warranty as long as I own it approach.' I see no reason to argue with that. Worst case scenario, the rings seat for crap, you lose a few hp, and regularly burn some oil. I don't know how many cars I've owned that were already burning oil..

I tend to ramble, skipping my posts is usually a good idea, I also tend to put disclaimers such as this one at the bottom of my post, thereby negating their effectiveness.

geekybiker

You can start pushing your type S from the moment you get the keys. Me, I prefer to drive my TL. Pushing is hard work.

ankur914

You make a good point Modulus. At the good ole college, we learned the reason why japanese autos last longer....They are designed to last approximatly 10-12 years, as that is turn around rate for most japanese customers...whereas, in the US, we tend to buy cars more frequently on a 5-6 year basis, and are designed for that long. Just something to consider, it may not apply anymore, actually since engineering has greatly advanced, but you never know....They are all here to make money, as you said...

On a lighter note, I think its all a damn conspiracy to get rich at our expense

ankur914

Hilarious!

Bob289

E-gad! I guess my engine is going to fall out because I bought my TL 250 miles away.... 12 miles on the odo when I first bought it.... I guess I have to start to save some money on a new engine when my current one falls out. Then again the nearest Acura is about 100 miles away so im screwed again! Its an never ending cycle!

onsknth

I completely agree, constant RPM is not an ideal situation in the first miles. I glazed over that point figuring what I was suggesting was to be all over the tach, I didn't consider some fellas that have a bit of a drive after delivery.

FWIW - I hit red in first and second out of the dealer lot.

Next... in all my years on BBS for various engine talk etc... Each one comes up with a different site that cites engine break-in techniques, you've just shown me another, thanks.

Anyway, I ramble too, skippin my posts is probably wise as well.

01tl4tl

The factory installs a special additive break in oil which should be run till the service life gets close or about 5000 miles. Old school engines have different procedures than new.
The rpm should be varied a little as you cruise to help seat the rings, does not have to be dramatic- just 5 mph down or up for a while then back to whatever
You want things to get used to constant changes

Using limited throttle after 500 miles does not help anything, go for it and get it all working together
1000 miles beat it !

subbuzz

i opened mine up this weekend.(alittle over 700 miles on her)

dtech

blah, I barely have 60 miles on mine ('07 TL-S)...gosh...I don't commute much so it'll be some time before I get to launch my baby. It's so funny, I live in Los Angeles and I've only seen one other TL-S since launch. I'm not complaining though...it's just that other drivers are always trying to race me EVERYTIME to see what I got...but can't until the break-in is properly reached...dang it!! Oh, and guys, don't forget to break lightly until you've reach 200 miles (according to the driver's manuel).

dragncivic

+2
i totally agree....i drove my car like i wanted from day one.... just my
it might break but thats a chance i have to take...

C P R

i agree...from what some of my friends whom work at diff. acura dealers have told me. They sure DONT drive it like a girl, when people drop their cars off for work or maintenance, or when they are picking up the car to be test driven etc.
So it can't be that bad to beat on em'

dtech

Let's just say if you were on a lease and you're definitely sure of not purchasing the vehicle when the term is over, would you guys just gun it from day one?? I'd do it, but I have this feeling that Acura could be monitoring my driving via the GPS. lol!

bruce.augenstein@comcast.

[QUOTE=Modulus]...If someone can tell me why oil filters have that spring-loaded valve design, I'll apologize. But don't tell me it's there to prevent oil starvation in the event of a filter clog, there's nothing in the engine but oil, which shouldn't clog the filter. It's the carbon deposits that build up in the oil that clogs the filter. Then the oil recirculating in the engine isn't filtered at all.. What am I missing?

It's there to bleed off excessive pressure that will occur with high rpm and cold (viscous) oil. Excess oil pressure is hard on engine seals, and the oil pump itself, including the drive mechanism. A secondary reason is excess pressure from a clogged oil filter. This is more likely to happen chemically (i.e. - mixing incompatible oils) than it is via sludge buildup - although late experience with Toyota and VW four cylinder sludge problems says that it may indeed happen even on modern engines.

There are some loooong posts on this forum pertaining to Used Oil Analysis, and IIRC those 'special components' in the original oil are present in most of the good oils that one might put in any car they cared about. The bottom line is that if you replace your oil at 500 miles, any metal that has worn off of the main bearings, connecting-rod bearings, crankshaft, rods, pistons, cams, etc.. won't be left in the engine. Personally, I think oil is cheap, I highly doubt good oil can cause damage to an engine, however, I don't think any worn metal that might be in the engine could possibly be good for it.

I'll always change the oil at 500 miles, then maybe again at 1000, then every 3000, or every 3 months, whichever comes first. But I couldn't care less what people do to vehicles that aren't mine..

Early oil changes on new engines are a waste of money, and it's a fallacy to think that an oil change will flush metal particles out of the engine. That's the oil filter's job (just don't use high rpm on an engine with cold oil - see above). Any metal particles large enough to cause trouble (and are not caught by the filter) will descend to the bottom of the crankcase and stay there, probably pissed off that they're doomed to stay there no matter how many times you change oil. The only possible way they'll get up off the floor is if you're cornering hard enough (and violently enough) to slosh the oil way hard in one direction or another - and then they possibly can get sucked into the oil pickup - only to die an ignominious death in the filter.

Just think about what happens during an oil change. Do you think that there's a tornado-like maelstrom of liquid activity going on in the crankcase or other engine areas? Of course not! What happens is the the oil level gently goes down, and at best, something with an inch or so of the drain might see enough current to slide out. That's IT! Everything else stays in place.

In regard to break-in, these strings (in almost any file) always come up with bunches of people with anecdotal proof points about how (choose one) - breaking an engine in hard is the one true way, - breaking the engine in easy is the one true way, - breaking the engine in "by the book" is the one true way.

The actual truth is: TA DA!! It doesn't matter a hell of a lot.

Everybody thinks their method is correct because it works for them - and that's obviously true!

There are only three guidelines that will likely give really good results:

1) Don't beat on a cold engine, or an engine with cold oil - whether the engine is broken in or not. (Note that it normally takes at least twice as long for the oil to get reasonably warm as it does for the coolant to reach normal operating temperature.)

2) Vary the load on the engine (i.e. - more gas, followed by less gas).

3) Vary the operating range (meaning rpm).

Other than that, have at it.

Bruce

Modulus

dtech: So that's what AcuraLink is for...

bruce: I agree that beating on a cold engine is bad, I thought that was common sense, but I could be wrong. It follows that anyone driving an engine with VTEC won't be beating on it, as the VTEC won't work until the engine is warm. As for breaking in an engine, it's like you say, the procedure isn't extremely important, you might get a few more horsepower one way, but the truth is that it doesn't make a huge difference. If it did, a lot of people's cars would be eating a quart of oil per week. Regardless of how meaningless you think changing the oil at 500 miles might be, I've changed the oil at 200 miles on a newly rebuilt engine, and watched the metal particles drain out in the still-clear oil. I haven't done this on a brand-new, factory engine, so it could very well be different. So I reiterate, I couldn't care less what people do to vehicles that aren't mine, but oil is cheap, I might only keep my cars for a year at a time, but I'll do my best to make sure they're in better, or at least as good as, condition as when I bought them.

Unless I'm confused about something, you're saying that when the (new) engine is cold, or at high rpms, those metal particles that might be flowing in the pre-filtered oil can bypass the filter and go back into the engine.

I once spun a rod bearing on a B17A1, I blame the 10psi of boost I was running, but truthfully it had more to do with the half-size radiator, and redlining 5th gear for a while in an attempt to keep up. The point is that I found metallic flakes from the rod bearing everywhere in the engine, all the way up to the vtec solenoid on the other side of the head, far from, and on the other side of, what was definitely a clogged filter. This is an exaggerated case, no doubt. But the point is that the oil filter allows metallic particles to get anywhere in the engine. In a new, not yet fully broken-in engine, those metallic flakes are small, and are suspended in the oil. They don't settle to the bottom upon engine shut-off, so all one has to do is change the oil while it's still hot, presumably as soon as possible after the engine has reached operating temps.

Even if you won't agree or admit that anything I have previously said was possible, you can't deny that changing the oil at 500 miles is not only inexpensive, but will guarantee that there is cleaner oil in the engine. So it's not hurting anything, even if it's not helping anything... (which it is )

ankur914

Yea..I changed my oil at ~1000 miles (probably too late but thas what my dad used to do on all of the fam's new cars in the past)....So i just followed his lead. He had the same reasoning for draining the oil. But i changed to Mobil 1 at this time,....shoulda probably stuck with Havoline for 3000 more miles cuz it has the same quantity of that "special" additive that the factory fill has, but oh well...The car runs like a champ still (and it should...the sucker only has 3800 miles on it! ). Car care is like math...many ways to solve the same problem....in the end, you get the same result

bruce.augenstein@comcast.

I agree. Still, most manufacturers tell you to leave the factory oil in there.

Hey, I typically change in 4k miles or less, and I use Mobil1 - meaning, I share at least some of your affliction.

Bruce

dtech

I'm at 100 miles now. When do I get my first oil change??

01tl4tl

when the MID tells you to about, 5000-7000 miles! or 80%
Let the engine run on the special factory oil like it was designed to do

What does the owner manual say exactly?

Modulus

What's that monty python quote? The more you run over a dead cat, the flatter it gets.

Seriously though, like ankur said, the Havoline has the 'special additives' that you're not supposed to take out of the engine.

dtech: use Havoline at 500 and 1000, then every 3000 miles, it might cost you an extra $100 a year in oil changes, how much are you already spending per year on your car?

bruce.augenstein@comcast.

There is a minor downside to frequent oil changes, on cars that have horizontal oil filters. Unlike vehicles with vertical filters (open side up, as in Chevy V8s), you can't fill the filter before screwing it onto the engine. The result is that you are running without oil pressure for several seconds until the oil filter gets filled.

For me, that always causes a wince, until the oil light goes out.

Me? Anal? You bet. They tell me I was potty trained at gunpoint!

Bruce

dtech

Modulus, I'm confused...when you say "use Havoline" are you referring to do-it-yourself oil change?? If so, I have no clue how to do so... Also, how much does it cost for an oil change through the dealer?

Anyway, back to the thread topic. I'm at about 110 miles on my car right now and just started using the paddle shifters/autoshift yesterday to avoid constant RPM. I shift everytime it's about to hit 4k RPM, is this a good practice until it's finally broken in? If not, please let me know. Also, once the car is broken-in, when revving the engine, which RPM is best to shfit from? Thank you in advance guys!!