I have an 05 TL with 1500 miles on it, the computer says the oil is at 60%.... what percent should I change it at? I've read that youre not supposed to change the oil that came with the car because its special for the break in or something. Anyway, what percent did everyone change their oil at?

 

Heh, I confimed my wife drives like an old lady today. Car has 1200 miles, oil is at 90%

 

If your TL is at 1500 miles and the MID is showing 60% life left, you must be doing some serious "extreme" driving (heavy traffic, lots of idling, heat... any or all of these things). Normally, 1500 miles should show around 70 - 80% life.

As for when to change, the owner's manual is specific about this, but the general consensus on this site is around 3000 miles to get the crap out. There is a LOT of info on this topic here.

 

I haven't had my first one yet, but my intent is to wait until it tells me to have A1 service performed. My belief is that if Acura is going to install a system that tells me when I should have it done, then that is when i will have it done. Don't know the specifics of the algorithm that decides when it should be changed, but from what I understand it factors in driving conditions (start/stop), temperature, miles, engine time and so forth. I received a letter from the dealer where i bought the car yesterday (Pohanka...I'v since moved out of the area) tellling me that the car should have the oil changed at 3750 miles. It kinda pissed me off. Is the maintenance minder system a valid system or not? I tend to believe that it is and I intend to stick with what it tells me.

 

Yes, the MID is valid, but some dealers still use the mileage schedule from the earlier gen vehicles. I don't know why they think the TL is applicable to that schedule. A lot of people still perform a service/oil change based on mileage (every 3K). Run a search on A1 service and you'll see the reasons why they do. IMO, I don't think you can go wrong following the MID.

 

Road Rage and Michael Wan (as I recall) did a few very good write-ups on this topic. I suggest you search for them for some extra info. Honda does have an additive package in their factory fill oil that needs to be left in the crankcase longer than what has been the custom over the years. Most gearheads in the past knew enough to change the factory fill the first 500 to 1000 miles and then work gradually into a normal schedule. But this is not recommended for Honda engines. However, the MID could have you waiting until as much as 6000 miles before your first change. Apparently, the factory fill oil starts breaking down long before any 6000 miles, so this is the reason you're seeing 3000 to not more than 4000 as the suggested first change mileage on this site.

 

The only way to make an informed choice on this topic is to read what has been posted. If one has absolute faith in the MiD, then it is easy. Acura's commitment is to get through the warranty period, and respond to the avg Joe's desire to have low-maintenance costs, for low TCO. It does not take an Einstein to see that that might be a house of cars.

But some of the UOA's of oil left in until the MiD said "outta here" have shown only marginal or no additive package reserve, and high amounts of crud (like silicon). One source of silicon is silicone seal oil leeching into the engine oil, but the casting methods of both the heads and the block can leave residual sand. Michael Wan and others have analysed the UOA's that clearly demonstrate the facts

Consider also historical fact. Let's take BMW, which now offers "free" (yeah, right) maintenance. That does not cover changing the brake fluid every 2 years, the engine oil at 3750, gear oil frequently, tranny oil frequently, etc. But in the same engines when the Owner was responsible, failure to do all those maintenance items came with dire warnings of refused warranty coverage. The whole thing just stunk, and was one reason I sold my M3 and decided never to go back to BMW NA. Either BMW was lying one year earlier, or is lying now, or both - no other way to see it. Either way is a shameless money grab. Sure there have been advances in lubricants and sub-assemblies, but I am talking about the switch over for the same model, same engine, same subassemblies from one model year to another. Now tranny oils last "a lifetime" - what does that mean - the lifetime of the tranny? ;(

Your dealer has sent you a note that plays into the same hypocrisy - do Acura and that Dealer accept the MiD, or not? Looks like - yup - another shameless money grab. It is pretty sickening.

While engine oil change intervals can be lengthened with synthetic oil that BMW uses, the other fluids require changing. Again, the mfrs commitment is to get through the warranty period - not one mile beyond that.

Again, do your homework, or put blind faith in Acura. Like nearly everything in life, the truth is somewhere in the middle between one extreme (change the oil every month) and the other (do what the computer says, there are miracles "lifetime" fluids, I'll pull out in time, and the check is in the mail).

 

The MID has repeatedly PROVEN by oil analysis to leave oil in the crank case that just isn't good for your car anymore. This is a fact. Have "faith" in the MID if you want, but science is against it. The first change should be done by 3k at the latest (in my experience, I wish I did it much sooner.) After that, 5k might be ok with good oil. I wouldn't try an extended drain until after 10k.

 

As well articulated by Road Rage and Jack above, the hard evidence suggests an early change is warranted. I did my 05 TL at 1,800 and my wife's 05 Ody van at 1,700. I left the MID alone at this time and changed again when it said 30% which turned out to be about 5k miles (but remember, I had already changed at under 2k). Going forward, I will be changing it at around 30%, just to have a safety margin.

It's your car but personally I would change it well before the MID says, especially the first time.

 

I just did my 2005 today, an easy car to change the oil on, no belly pan
to remove like on the Passat.
I am at just under 3000 miles, and the oil looked very dirty (like it always does).

I used a mobil 1 filter and havoline 5w20.
The mid was at 60% I think, and I will change it again when the mid says
10% or something...

Oil is cheap, why not change it a bit more often if you plan on keeping the car
to over 100,000 miles?

VW also had lifetime fluids, a big joke, lifetime is warenty lifetime.
Why anyone would go by a manufacturers recomendation is beyond me,
VW recomended (and dealers used) dino oil in the 1.8T passat engines,
at 5000 mile changes.
Thats like 4 quarts or less of dino oil in a turbo engine, I said they were nuts,
and after all the engine failures from oil coke plugging up the oil pump
inlet screen, they came out with a recomendation for syntetic oil that meets
VW spec's, and the dealers STILL dump in dino oil!
VW also came out with a bigger oil filter to bump up the oil a 1/2 quart, and
most dealers still dont know anything about it....

Brett

 

VW should makes Bugs and that's it....Audi should not exist.

 

I changed mine at 3200 and wish I had done it sooner- like 1500. I had the old oil analyzed. It was dirty and had break-in wear metals as expected. Hondas break in dirty because of close tolerances and other factors.

I went back with Mobil 1 and put a moly additive in to mimic the break-in oil. However, Havoline 5W-20 is almost identical to the factory break-in oil. You could run that up to 8,000 or so and then go to your regular operating oil and change intervals. You could stick with Havoline or go synthetic like Mobil 1. Most brand name oil, even dino juice, is good these days if it's SM and Group IV.

Use a good filter. Mobil 1, Purolator Pure One, NAPA Gold, Wix, etc. Avoid the cheapie Frams. Some would say to avoid ALL Frams. One of the two filters the Acura dealer sells is a Fram.

 

I agree with you. The MID should be our guide. However, my dealer has a deal where they offer a lifetime drivetrain warranty if I follow their oil change interval recommendation of 3750 miles/change -- and have it done by them. The price isn't an issue as they're fairly close to their competitors but it irks me that Acura spends the money on the MID and they choose to ignore it. I actually called the service department up to ask about their policy. They essentially said that they don't trust the MID system. It's obvious (to me) that they're just trying to gain the service business but it's still a sore point.

 

I'm with you lflorack...I'd really like to take advantage of some of the maintenance offers the dealers give you for sticking with them, but being military, I move around so dang much that I really can't offer any allegiance to a single dealer. Too bad they don't have a universal "free maintenance" program, but as has been pointed out, there can be downsides to this too.

 

Not the least of which is a big price difference in the car. BMW has free maintenance.... but you pay $27,000 more for similarly equipped, similarly sized car: 530i.

But they will change your oil and wiper blades for free during the warranty period.

 

I think xpiditor's (and mine) point is that there is no such thing as "free" anythging. Someone pays - in BMW's case, one pays more in NA than their cars are worth. They likely make their money back at the other end anyway - once the warranty/"free" service wears off, one is left with a car than may have a laundry list of "far less than free" things to be done, or even one that will need replacing. "free" may be a decent deal for lessees, but since I do not like leases, there is no upside for me on any of this.

yatesd: Your post makes sense, but you ignored brettg's wisdom - what good is that "dealer perk" if one is getting 2nd rate service? Companies like BMW and VW and Audi spec very strict oils specs, for example, but then the dealers often (always?) use whatever bulk lubes they have in the back. I am not guessing - I have visited many of them. In rare cases, I found a 55-gal drum of Castrol synlube for diffs - most of the time, I found a drum of low $ domestic minlube. This was the same for other sub-assembly lubes. (Of course, BMW auto trannies now come with miracle "lifetime" fluids, and have sealed access ports).

This is not only deceptive, but can lead to actual damage. The extended drain computer "engine oil maintenance indicators" for M-B, BMW, and others require ACEA oil specs that no mineral oil of which i aware can meet. M-B just paid out millions in a case where the dealers recommended minoils for extended drain situations where those oils could not adequately perform.

If an Acura dealers "does not trust the Mid", I for one would like to know what else in Acura's service aresenal they lack trust? Will they "lack trust" in the brake pad anti-squal shims? How about the pads, rotors, etc - will they use Pep Boys as their experts?".

We have had people post that their dealers did not have any 5w20 oil. Many just used 5w30 in everything. Of course, anyone with any sense of the concept of scale of economy knows that they probably got a much better deal on 10 drums of 5w30, then they might have on 6 drums of 5w30, 3 of 5w20, and 1 of 10w30. So if one of us poor slobs brings in his TL or his S2000, who knows if the proper oil is being used? That is one reason I am amused about the argument that a fluid has to be "Acura certified". Doesn't mean anything if the dealer has his/her own opinions, esp when they are driven by Mammon.

 

Excellent points on all. So many issues and so much variability between dealers in the capabilities of their mechanics and their level of trustworthiness...if any at all. And not even having the right viscosities of oil - geezus I hadn't heard that but I can see it happening, pathetic as that is.

 

Yeah, I drive in only suburban/city areas and it reached 100 degrees yesterday for a few hours. The coolest its been here in a month or so (when i got it) is around 80.

I think i'll take the advice to change it around 2000 since its the first oil change instead of listening to the MID.

Thanks

 

Yes, most of the people who take their cars into the VW dealers for service
(VW requiers proof of service or your warenty is void) ask for synthetic oil that
meets VW's specs, and in almost every case the service advisor argues against
synthetic oil. When people insist, the oil change price jumps WAY up and they get
cartrol syntech, not a great synthetic oil....

On top of that, most Passats get overfilled by a quart, as the JETTA holds
a quart more than the Passat.

That is why I do all my own work/service, I KNOW what I get and how the job is done.
I save a lot of money also....

Brett

 

somebody listens and learns from the mistakes of others! Maybe I can start believing in humanity again! Nah.

 

In Road Rage's post last Sunday he mentioned his amusement with the need for "Acura-certified" fluids. I share his skepticism. Wonder if we can "shift gears" for a minute here and talk about Acura's (actually Honda's) insistance on using only their Auto-tranny fluid. The owner's manual even outlines a massive flushing procedure needed if an owner is forced to put something else in their tranny only temporarily.

Is this for real? Can their really be something that special in their transmission fluid's chemistry. They are very up-front in the manual that other brands will trash your tranny. Would love to have the experts tell me it's all bravo-sierra, but, what's the facts guys?? (& gals)

 

Not to hijack this thread, but I was planning on taking my new TL in at 1500 miles, it has been really hot in NY these past few weeks. In any event, I usually take my cars to the local oil change place, they use Castrol. Is this ok to go with? Can I reset the MID to state 100% after the oil change? Thanks for any help.

Hank

 

Hank, Acura/Honda wants you NOT to change the oil too early before break-in is complete because of a special oil they put in at the factory. I (and others) have had this break-in oil analyzed at a lab and determined that the major difference between it and most good oils is the high level of Molybdenum (moly).

I changed mine at 3200 and wish I had done it sooner- like 1500. I had the old oil analyzed. It was dirty and had break-in wear metals as expected. Hondas break in dirty because of close tolerances and other factors.

Through virgin oil analysis (VOA), I have also determined that Havoline 5W-20 is nearly identical to the Acura break-in factory fill including high amounts of moly.

I recommend hanging now and using Havoline 5W-20 until you get 5-10,000 miles at which time 90% of the break in should be accomplished. At that point, switch to whatever good oil you want..... or, stick with the Havoline. If you prefer synthetic, Mobil 1 is good.

And use a quality filter.

(Is there an echo in here or am I repeating myself?)

 

I waited until my MID just switched from 30% to 20% to have my oil changed. At the time I had Blackstone Labs do an oil analysis. The results were scary. The oil was very dirty, and worn out. I should have changed it much sooner. I don't know how bad it would have been had I waited until 0%. It was bad enough at 20% for me to loose confidence in anything the MID is telling me.

 

This is a very controversal topic to say the least.

Most folks have already know about Honda/Acura OEM ATF and Power Steering fluids. I noticed up in the manual about there is even now Honda OEM Brake Fluid which they insist on. Honda OEM Engine oil is not required to be Honda.

For the ATF and Power Steering fluid, I've solidly used. I tried some other ATF's in a 89 Legend and the shift quality was poor, and the locking torque converter was rough in operation.

I read some very good notes on Acura Legend user groups concerning the OEM stuff versus the other ATF's out there. Oddly enough the owners manual and shop manual say you can use Dexron 3 as well as Honda ATF. Honda/Acura automatics by design are particular in their operation, esspecially the way the clutchs and gears are organized.

In terms of the other fluids, I've moved toward Honda brand OEM anti-freeze. I had water pumps seals fail prematurely in my Legend and a Honda motorcycle. I did a little research and discovered all the problems with high silicate content in Prestone anti-freeze (which was all I ever used to use).

I'm not trying to defend the automakers, but in general they've gotten tired of dealing with warrenty repairs of poor-performing non-OEM parts and consumables (fluids/filters/...). A friend's neighbor was a senior engineering manager who worked for GM (later working up into the executive ranks). He worked both consumer and commercial side of the business. He found the maintenance side of the consumer business to be the most frustrating since in the 70's and 80's he saw alot of problems due to aftermarket fluids not meeting GM spec's. Also consumer care for the vehicles ranged from conservative (like most folks in AcuraZine) to people who expected their cars to have their oil changed every 2 years let alone checking the dip-stick once a year.

Honda is not alone here, BMW and VW/Audi have also gotten pretty strict on the fluids used in their vehicles.

For the ATF, Power Steering Fluid, and Anti-freeze I stick with Honda brand stuff. For engine oil and brake fluid I use aftermarket since those components in the TL are not different in design or operation compared to the majority of vehciles out there. I'm still sitting on the fence on Honda MTF.

 

I have the same dealer for my 2005 TL, but the windshield sticker Pohanka Acura put on the (new) car says 5,000 miles, so there's clearly a lack of unanimity about this. The owners manual stresses following the MID for the first change, and at 4,200 miles I still have 60 percent to go. There are a lot of angles to this issue - for instance I may not keep the car beyond the warranty period - but as I've never known anyone who had an engine go bad I lean toward avoidng the cost and inconvenience of short oil changes, while still being able to say I've followed factory recommendations when I offer the car to its next owner. In other words I'll change with the MID or slightly sooner - this is a real luxury for someone whose first cars needed grease jobs every 1500 miles.

 

When I change at 500, 1000, 3000, 5000, 7000, what happens at 300K? Nothing.

But is it better to change early? Of course.

Is it a death sentence, in terms of causing excessive engine wear if you change it when the MID tells you? Absolutely not.

So do whatever makes you feel comfortable.

Offtopic:

RR, BMW covers a Brake Fluid Flush every 2 years, and Coolant Flush every 4 years. Under their scheduled maintenance program, they cover an oil service at 15K, Inspection I at 30K, and another oil service at 45K using Castrol TXT Softec 5w-30.

Michael

 

MW: OKay.....What is your point? That because they still flush the brakes and do a coolant change that the substantive points have no merit? If so, then consider that a red herring.

Do all their engines now use the same 15K 5w30 Softec (what a lame name)? You actually seen the 55 gal drums that confirm that ALL the right lubes are being used in every engine oil grade? Do you buy into the opinion that their automatic tranny fluids last forever and that the lack of provision to do regular fluid changes is something you would find comfortable for your car?

 

RR,
My point was that your info was slightly inaccurate.

5w-30 Castrol TXT Softec is the "official" name of the stuff in Europe, but over here, its bottled under the name "BMW High-Performance Synthetic." YES, all of the cars now use that stuff with the exception of the M3, which uses Castrol 10w-60 racing oil.

No, I do not buy into the opinion that fluids are lifetime, because thats BS.

FYI, they have the BMW High Performance Syn in a bulk tank at my local BMW dealer.

Michael

 

I changed my oil for the first time around 5500 miles with the MID reading <15%. I just turned 10600 yesterday and the MID is reading 20% so I'm getting pretty close to the same MID results mileage-wise between changes. Personally I am comfortable with going by what the MID tells me but changing it earlier certainly couldn't hurt. I used 5-20 Castrol with a Supertech filter the first time and plan on using the same in a couple of weeks.

 

Today I had the dealer do the first oil change on my '05 TL 6mt with 2,500 miles. I plan to do the oil changes myself in the future but the dealership offered a free first oil change. I don't know what type of oil or filer they used for the change. Is there some type of oil additive I should use now while the engine is still in the break-in period?

 

My mid is reading <10% and I got near 5200 miles. I'm taking it in this Saturday.

 

No break-in additive needed. I'd suggest LC though, to control oxidation and extend service intervals.

Michael