lumpydog

So I like to check the "3G TL Owners Sign In" (sticky) thread every once in a while to see what others paid for one of the finest rides on the planet....

Why are people afraid of disclosing their VINs? It's DOT law that your VIN needs to be in plain view... It's not like it's your social security number. What's the big deal?

Burgman

I seen a news report showing how people steal cars using the VIN number. They go to the dealer stating that they lost their keys and the dealer would order a new set using the VIN number. The report recommended covering your VIN number so theives would not be able to get your number. I am sure the car dealers are more careful now about ordering spare keys but you never know.

crazymjb

Thats not true for the TL. In order to get a key that can start the car you need the car, a barcode from the key chain, and one of the existing keys.

empathy

i dont think TL's are stolen much because of their limited compatibility. integra's are stolen because most of their parts fit inside a civic..there is a list according to some insurance survey for 2004.

1. 1999 Acura Integra
2. 2002 BMW M Roadster
3. 1998 Acura Integra
4. 1991 GMC V2500
5. 2002 Audi S4
6. 1996 Acura Integra
7. 1995 Acura Integra
8. 2004 Mercury Marauder
9. 1997 Acura Integra
10. 1992 Mercedes-Benz 600

the most they would do is possibly steal the navigation system and wheels..it would be pointless for other stuff because it just wouldnt fit in other cars. i mean..it would be possibly, but i dunno.

if someone went through all that work, let them go ahead and do it. i am pretty sure everyone with a TL has a full coverage. if u get ur car stolen, call the cops and ur insurance company and ur insurance should give u a car immediately that u can drive around till they give u money for ur car.

ChuckDu

Not anymore. Check out this article which shows that the immobilzer code has been broken.

So theoretically a thief with a brain and a plan could;
1. watch you park your brand new TL as you arrive to see a movie,
2. walk by you with your key in your pocket to gather the immobilizer information,
3. walk to your car and get your VIN off the dashboard,
4. go sit in his car and decode the immobilizer info,
5. meanwhile, have an accomplice with the VIN get a key blank cut by an unscrupulous Acura Parts cohort,
6. when your accomplice returns, program the newly cut key with the decoded immobilizer code,
7. drive off with your car using the new key while your still eating your popcorn.

ChuckDu

Sorry, that link doesn't work very long, it jumps to a search page after a second or two. Try this one.

crazymjb

Who would go through that for a TL, yah its a nice car, but can you say S600?

fast-tl

Using services like publicdata.com it's possible to find address and other personal info using the VIN. How much you paid for the car, when it was purchased and from where, other vehicles at or near that address, etc. Could be dangerous, since we don't *really* know who's trolling the boards. The same info can be had using the license plate number. Sure it's in plain sight, but it's one thing fro someone to see it in person, quite another thing to distribute it across the Internet!

crazymjb

If the break in's continue in my area(was recently voted safest US city) I got a great idea for a security system. Basically consists of getting a motion detectro light, hooking up a relay so its normally triggering the stop button on a vcr but when triggered changes to record(for the 30 seconds) along with powering up a 30 buck X10 camera.(easy set up, at least for me, I am good with electronics). Should I cover my Vind with electrical tape?

massr1

toronto is a breeding ground for car thieves. there was this one mastermind who had people working for him in california who would send him vin numbers from the cars there. he would then use them to fabricate vin tags, including ones most people dont know about. he would also get a hold of dealer software for many expensive cars to disable the engine immobilizer right from his laptop inside the car, and also change the vin on the cars cpu. talk about a skilled man.

crazymjb

If a car theive can get away with it, they can make a comfy living.

te3point5

where in Newton do you live?

ChuckDu

Who would go through the risk of stealing a 1991 GMC V2500 or 1995 Acura Integra?

You're right, it would be more profitable to steal a Benz, Porsche or BMW. However, the S600 and many other high-end cars have a keyless entry system: Just another layer of security that will eventually be broken.

In any case, there are documented reports of car thieves getting keys cut by dealerships with only the VIN. Just cover up the VIN on the dashboard and it eliminates this simple step to stealing a car.

fast-tl

Good points Chuck. The deal is, we never know what people keep in their '91 GMC or '95 Integra: a system? a laptop? There could be reasons those vehicles could be attractive. Heck it could be simply that they're easy to steal. That's reason enough to keep your VIN away from prying eyes. As for covering up your VIN, I already said the same info can be had from the license plate number. Gimme one off the street (plate # and state) and I'll prove it. Hell, gimme the plate number and I'll give YOU the VIN!

mp3car

As for "stealing" the RFID code from the key, it more than likely can't be done from any distance more than a 6" or so... which means someone "walking by you" would have to walk REALLY close to you.

Also, there are other devices which can "scan transmit" RFID codes, this according to my neighbor who works for progressive.... he said some cars that use RF transponders in the keys don't have anything in place that prevents thousands of codes being tried in a row until they hit the right one... this is what he says anyhow, but he said there is currently not a way to do it with the TL that he knows of... possibly b/c it's still too new, but also possibly b/c maybe honda made it so that it will only look for a second RF code after waiting like 10 seconds... so if I put in a mechanically copied key, it wouldnt start, then if i put my real key in, it might take 5 or 10 seconds before it would work... just a guess on how they could make it harder...

GM has used the "chip" in the keys for a long time, which was actually just a resistor, not a chip of any kind... I am talking about the keys that have that little black thing with a metal spot on each side in the middle of the metal part of the key... When i put a remote start system in my car, you had to do the following to bypass it... put the key in, measure the resistance across two wires which came from the ignition switch, which would be measuring the resistance of the key and the switch (if there were a built-in resistor into the switch also), then once you had this value, you cut the wires and put a resistor wired away from the switch through some relays... so yeah, you are kinda bypassing this security, but not totally b/c if the alarm isnt used to start it, it needed the resistor of the key.. and the alarm had something else too. It had a remote fuel pump kill relay, which you could pretty much mount anywhere, and it received a radio signal from the alarm's "brain" every time the car was started correctly with the key or the remote... basically if it didnt receive a signal from the alarm's brain within so many seconds, it shut off the fuel pump, and it was nice that i didnt have to run a wire to it... it was a really nice alarm, had an engine temp sensor so you could have it keep your car warmed up once the engine got below a certain point, it would start it and run it for X minutes... (of course you wouldnt want it in the garage). It also was programmed compltely by computer, i got my hands on the installer's CD for it, it was VERY nice being able to do all those options with a gui on a computer. It did all sorts of other things, if you turned on your windshiled wipers (not to the spray setting, just if you actually turned them on) it also turned on your headlights... you could add a pager module so i could be inside an office building, far away from the car, and "page" the car and make it do things such as start it up so it would be cooled off by the time i got to the car... you could also use the pager module to immobilize it if it was somehow stolen by either the theif having your key and you not having armed it, or having your key and keyless remote.

Sorry for kinda going off on a tangent... oh, one more thing about car security... someone posted a link a while back to an article that talked about a man who had his finger cut off so they could steal his car which had a fingerprint reader to start it...

WdnUlik2no

Many theives steal anything that is an easy target, doesn't matter what kind of car it is really. My grandfather's 1987 pontiac perissane (sp?) was stolen outside of my friends house a while I was back in high school. Not sure why they wanted that other than to joy ride. The cops found the car the next day; the steering column had to be replaced but that was it. If the dumba$$ theives had looked in the trunk they would have seen a $600 home stereo system. I guess I got the last laugh. HA!!

But for the career theives yes, an S600 would be a better steal then our TL's.

crazymjb

The new fingerprint readers, like the one in the thinkpad test density too, no blood flow, no go. The down side, a thieve steals it, your down a finger, generally your index. If you are really paranoid you could put your keyes in one of those lead film bags(the ones people use so the airport Xray doesnt wreck it.

Newton Center

WdnUlik2no

Haha, this reminds me of something I witnessed in traffic court back in 03. This guy that got rear ended by some other guy was telling the judge. "Well your honor I was sitting at a stop sign, then someone rammed into the back of me. I reached for my gun because I thought I was about to be car jacked."

Then the judge interupted him and said "Wait, you got a 1996 Ford Taurus?"

Then the guy was like "yes".

And the judge responded "Who wants that?!"

Everybody in the court room just busted out laughing.

chill_dog

Awesome!


As for your car getting stolen, or anything else for that matter, if they want it, they'll find a way to get it...doesn't matter how much/what kind of security you have on it. Also, just because something is of no value to you or I (a 96 Taurus, for example), doesn't mean someone else wouldn't want it. A person who needs a few bucks for something (crack, bookie, etc.) could sell the Taurus for a grand (well below value, therefore, easy sell) and get whatever they need.

ChuckDu

That I did not know. Now that I'm totally paranoid, I'm gonna trade in my TL for a Pontiac Aztek. That car has to be on the absolute bottom of the most stolen list. (Plus, I read on the internet that it has less rattles than a TL.)

crazymjb

I hope you're kidding.

Unless you meant this aztec, I don't think its pontiac, or even closely priced.

ChuckDu

This is the Aztek to which I am refering.... SWEET

mn2trance

Blah . . . no matter how safe and secure you think you are, thieves will always find a way to get anything of importance of yours. We just have to educate ourselves just like we would if we were to protect our identities from phishing, spamming, etc.

ChuckDu

Here's some info on why certain cars are stolen. This is from the company which compiled the data for the 2004 most stolen list...

"our data suggests some cars are stolen for the value of their parts, which may explain why we often see a ‘clustering’ effect with same make and model vehicles from sequential model years. The data also points to a high proportion of stolen cars that are built for speed such as the BMW M Roadster, Audi S4 and Mercury Marauder, which all appear on the top 25 most stolen vehicles list in 2004.”

The full press release is here.

fast-tl

Here's a random example of why it's dangerous to show your VIN or license plate on the web. Notice the links to "find other vehicles at this address" n case the 1996 Taurus isn't tasty enough, or even MORE scary, how about the NEIGHBOR's cars, using the Find other vehivles in this area link. See both at bottom, and you've been warned!