lifetimeofwar

I agree. Oh well time to trade the TL for the much more luxurious C30, or better yet the Saab.

sifuacura

iTrader: (1)

Hmm i dont consider the RL or MDX cheap..maybe u need to be more precise when u say ACURA only

sifuacura

iTrader: (1)

and they should stick to reporting how much a billionaires make so we can be envy of them.

I hate cars

I got my TL because it had everything I wanted. Sure I could've gotten a 3-series for the same price but I truly liked the Acura better. When buying it I knew it didn't carry the same prestige as the BMW nameplate but when I pay that $700 car payment every month I want something I want and not what anyone else wants. That list, as retarded as it may be doesn't phase me at all. I'm happy with my decision..... but why did the 335 have to come out lol.

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

^^^ what 3 series can you get at the same price as a TL that has its options?

I hate cars

When I went looking you could get a 330 for roughly the same price. Granted I was getting an 06 TL in Dec of 05 with little room to bargain and I got the Bimmer dealer to come down quite a bit. At the time there were probably 5 3 series to every 1 TL on the road where I lived so that influenced my decision too. Plus, a friend of mine sells used cars and I had a chance to own a 5 series or even a CL55 for the same price but honestly was sick of unreliable cars.

shooter

U kidding, right? Getting a 330 with the kind of options TL has ? That would get you into 40+ easy ... my buddy works for bimmer so I know they don't sell under MSRP ...

I hate cars

I won't mention what I paid for my TL because it's embarassing. But yes, with roughly the same options I found an 05 330 for about what I paid for the TL. Going off of memory from a year and a half ago the 330 was roughly $1,500 more.

phambam

Once again, this comes back down to corruption of the media. They control a lot of things in our society. Everything is feed through the media outlets (newspapers, magazines, Internet, television, radio etc)

I wouldn't be surprised if Forbes Magazine has political ties somehow.

Anyways, to really get unbiased opinions, read up on Consumer Reports!

kenny5

People who rely solely on Forbes in their car buying decisions are either idiots or know little to nothing about the best value in cars, their reliability and dynamics!!

kenny5

Look at what I found from Forbes. The article came out in Feb. 2004.

http://www.forbes.com/vehicles/2004/..._0209test.html.

May be these are the reasons why they don't think the TL is a luxury car: (1) not enough power; and (2) front wheel drive ... as well as ... perhaps weight distribution and torque steer.

Test Drives
2004 Acura TL
Michael Frank




Overview

News that Acura is planning a revamp of its moribund RL flagship this coming fall shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who follows the car business. No, the RL is not the subject of this review--the less-expensive Acura TL four-door is.

But we mention the RL in this context because its fate has a great deal to do with that of the just-revised TL--and of course with the fate of the entire Acura line. Acura, you'll recall, is the luxury division of Honda (nyse: HMC - news - people ). Sales of Acuras were uneven last year, with numbers holding steady or going upward on models below $30,000, but above that mark Acura got spanked. For instance, the RL tanked more than 27%, with a volume just a smidge over 6,000 cars. By comparison, Toyota's (nyse: TM - news - people ) Lexus line sold four times as many LS430 flagship models, and that was a down year for the LS430.

Which points to one key problem with the Acura label--it has never really stood for luxury or performance worth paying top dollar for.

HIGHS:
Fast; generous cockpit, strong styling

LOWS:
Torque steer throws the handling off.


READ MORE TEST DRIVES

And there are two chief reasons: not enough power and a front-drive-only drivetrain. See, while rivals from Japan, such as Nissan's (nasdaq: NSANY - news - people ) Infiniti, are switching to rear-wheel drive to showcase superior handling (Lexus long ago added rear-wheel drive in order to gain on its German competition), Acura has stood pat. Officials there have always insisted that inline four and V-6 engines with power sent to the front wheels made the most sense from a production and space-efficiency perspective. And they are right about the latter--if you don't have a driveline stretching from the engine bay to the rear wheels, a flat cabin floor is much easier to create. And you can more readily make a spacious cabin without having to make a long car.

However, there are a few big negatives as well. One is weight distribution. With no driveline reaching backward and an engine pushed forward to make a small car roomier, you wind up with a nose-heavy machine that won't corner as neutrally as a vehicle with 50-50 weight distribution. Another problem is torque steer (the tendency of the front wheels to fight steering inputs under hard acceleration). Acuras have never suffered from severe torque steer, but that's unfortunately changing. The reason is there's a horsepower war going on in luxury-performance cars that sell for $30,000 and up, and everybody is coming with rear-wheel drive or all-wheel drive.

So whether that's General Motors' (nyse: GM - news - people ) Cadillac or Infiniti, or Ford Motor's (nyse: F - news - people ) Jaguar or Lexus, Acura has to keep up. But more power sent to the front wheels eventually results in torque steer--there's just no way to get around it.

Still, the choice to go with less power doesn't look very good in ads, either. So that's why the $32,650 Acura TL gets 270 horsepower, way up from the old TL's 225-hp output. After all, this car is meant to contend with Infiniti's 260-hp G35, Cadillac's 220-hp CTS (you can also get the CTS with 400 horsepower as well, but it costs $49,300 versus $30,490 for the base model), not to mention BMW's 225-hp 330i. And, yes, a few Lexus options, as well as the Audi A4 with all-wheel drive and the Mercedes-Benz C320.

But while a 270-hp, 3.2-liter V-6 engine under the hood of the TL certainly makes it at least as quick in a straight line as its rivals, it also makes this a car you have to think about more when driving it hard. And there are some other drawbacks (having nothing whatsoever to do with performance). More on these--and still more on the RL--when you click below.

MR1

Why on earth does anyone of you give a rats ass what Forbes thinks about cars??
Same goes for Cnet and the car books.

They all have different criteria than most of us and their readers may be the type of people that value products by price only. Anyway, I have no question about what car I should have purchased. I drive it almost every day.

F23A4

@ Forbes.

They knew about the CTS-V but not the 02-03 TL-S:


Though I do peruse Forbes.com regularly, I tend to take the car review info with a grain of salt.

kappa821

x2


after you put in options for all those cars they are more money than the tl and still have less in it,

my friend got a loaded g35 and paid 43k out the door how is the more affordable then a loaded tl at about 36-37k out the door

ecliptics

although i do feel like acura should be up there, at least considered "luxury", there are many reasons that hold the "acura" name back..

1. acura only makes two luxury vehicals.. the TL and RL

i think if they wanted to change their name, they would definitely have to DROP the rsx (integra) and the tsx even down to the honda line.. the TL and RL can keep up with todays "luxury vehicals" but the rsx and tsx simply cant..

2. this is a big reason... ACURA DOES NOT MAKE ANY V8! bmw, lexus, mb, etc all have a car in their lineup that has the big daddy v8 in it.. i think adding v8 to the acura name would greatly boost their image and people would think of their name more often when we think of "lexus, infiniti, benz..." etc

thats just my input... but anyways, good news? i saw a TL in the new 335i commercial where the 335 is compared to other luxury vehicals along with the IS, G37, and other cars.. but the TL WAS indeed in that category!

OKNBPTL

Agreed. All those lines have a big, powerful "halo" car that everyone considers to be a "luxury" car. Acura doesn't (yet), hence it is somewhat easier to overlook. Saab would certainly be an exception to that.
So Forbes doesn't consider the TL to be in the 3-series' class, but BMW does? Nuff said.

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

imho, the TSX, MDX and RDX are also considered luxury.

they have already dropped the RSX, no?

there is a V8 in the works

yeah, i saw that commercial too. the TL was way in the back.....but included nonetheless

Chanrith

I think they should move the RSX(Integra) down to the Honda line. The Civic Si model's are basically the same exact car so I don't see a point in Acura holding the stakes for the Integra. It's definitely a damper on the Acura brand. The TSX needs to be at least a V6 to contend with a luxury car IMO.

RSA_Secure

^^ RSX is going to be discontinued for the same exact reasons you mentioned. TSX will likely get a turbo-4...we will see.

cgrant

Here's another interesting Forbes article ... http://www.forbesautos.com/reviews/2...el-update.html

The first paragraph reads:For some reason Forbes demotes the TL to a premium vs a luxury vehicle although out of the same mouth, it says that it is luxurious

Someone figure that one out!

Chanrith

I think it's because they also stated that the TL undercut's it's Euro competitors in price.

F23A4

I posted a similar assertion here (re: RSX) just before the current Si debuted, which was the last nail in the RSX/Integra coffin.

In line with RSA's post, the 2G TSX will probably get a powertrain derivative of the RDX's K23A (My guess is that the Hp/Tq numbers will be flipped to ~260hp/240lb-ft. ).

SuperStar

According to the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety:


The Acura TL was redesigned for the 2004 model year. Its base price has increased sufficiently to reclassify it as a midsize luxury car. (The 1999-2003 TL was classified as a midsize moderately priced car.)

ecliptics

haha im sure it was what we both first looked for.. and then i saw the butt of the tl and i was like yes!!!!

DeMAN

I hope Acura next move is to make a similar powered diesel at the same affordable prices.

The TL already does well on the highway when held under 80mph. The diesel would make Acura be even more efficient than now.

limited

Paid $38K for my G35 sedan OTD, only thing I did not get was the spoiler package. Unless your friend got a fully loaded G35 coupe, then the dealer took your friend for a ride.

IMO, for the price of the TL, it really needs to be be RWD.

ILLustriousUA6

iTrader: (2)

if the TL was RWD, geeeez.. I would love it even more..

brett

Just be happy the TL isn't on this list...

http://www.forbesautos.com/slideshow...hisSpeed=12000

chill_dog

I see a lot of garbage on that list. I was a little surprised only one Mercedes was on there, though...I'm sure if it was twenty cars more would've made it.

bobbyc39

I can tell you why.... because my $35,000 05' TL is a piece of absolute crap. I've only owned Hondas... then a CL, then a TL.... wow has this company regressed! All under 100k miles I had to replace the starter, transmission (3rd gear, common problem) clutch (90k HIGHWAY miles) I took great care of this car and had is serviced exclusively at the dealership that I bought it. It's had an acceleration issue for the last 20k miles that no dealership will acknowledge. I've been an absolutely die hard Honda/Acura guy but really, my TL (along with MANY others) have this acceleration issue and nobody can seem to fix it. THAT's why it's not considered an affordable luxury car. It was in the LEMON category.

Red Voodoo

There are some poor unfortunate souls that end up getting a bad car. And I understand that having that experience would black-ball the nameplate for you. But keep in mind that you cannot legitimately label the Acura TL as a bad car due to only your experience with it. In fact, I think the vast majority here cannot replicate your experience. The Acura TL has proven to be a very reliable model in the highly competitive entry-level luxury division. Good luck with your car. Maybe it's just time for you to move on to another manufacturer for awhile after you dump your problemic TL.

I hate cars

Lets not go there. The reliability gap is barely a thin line anymore. Ford is not going bankrupt. GM, due to the unions has to charge an extra $2,000 per car just to pay for retirement, etc. Think about how far $2,000 would go towards better interior quality and such. Not making excuses, they should've changed the business plan many years ago but the reason for they going under is not because of their product.

Red Voodoo

lol... You are absolutely correct. Why should I pay for somebody elses retirement?

I hate cars

I wonder what it takes to be on the list. I could understand it if all the other cars were true luxury cars and the near luxury TL was left out. But some of those cars the TL blows away in luxury.

I hate cars

I was always loyal to GM....up until they took the bailout without changing things and are now mostly government owned. I'll never buy one of their products again or at least not until things change which I doubt will ever happen.

bobbyc39

Red VooDoo.... I understand what you're saying but there are a lot of people having this issue. I would venture a guess and say there are many out there (people who drive rather gently or know nothing about cars) who don't even know they have this issue. What really goes up my arse sideways is when the dealer has the balls to tell me there's no issue. I rode with a tech who agreed something wasn't right.... well after he looked at his God (the computer) he determined everything was fine and that my car running like crap was normal for this model TL. I've got a lemon, I guess I need to come to grips with that but there are many more like mine. Just like the Toyota accelerator issue. Toyota knew that 1 in every 25,000 cars had a problem but it took HEAVY pressure to get them to admit there was an issue. There's no safety concerns here so Acura can just tell me to screw!

j1n

iTrader: (1)

strong 3 year bump

Souljah

SpiderX1016

All because someone had to rant about his car.