BarryH

I don't know what the stats are for the TL, but on my car, Brembo's reduce stopping distance over 20 feet (two car lengths) from 70MPH. That's a pretty impressive gain.

acura_driver

Where did you get that number? Given identical tires I doubt there is that much difference on the TL.

-r

chazy777

Brembo brakes puts so much dust out on the rim. I have to have a dedicated wash mitt just for it and the thing went from white to black! In each single tank of gas the front wheels are filthy black so I find myself cleaning them all the time in between car washes. I'm at 2000 miles however and still have the problem. Also you can get squeaking brakes depending on how you brake them and weather condition (some people get lucky and get rid of it I found) .. I braked very hard once causing AntiLock breaks to go on and noticed I rarely have the squeaking problem. But from what I read on Brembo brakes, I'm glad I have them; there is a major difference.

Anyways, correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I remember the MT cost a little more than AT because of these extras you get. Also 6MT you get better gas mileage with the 6th gear! (just a little) .. still worth mentioning!

I'm glad I don't drive in traffic all the time, otherwise I'd be complainin about the 6MT. I love the control of power otherwise

6spdzoomzoom

6spd... I will never own auto unless, I lose my left leg...

TooLate

I'm sorry, but I do not believe that AT ALL. Please prove it.

Can stock brakes lock your wheels (or bring them to the point that Anti-Lock engages)? Of course they do, so upgraded brakes aren't going to do much of anything, other than reduce fade.

spidey07

meh, I've driven both (a buddy has the AT), there is a large difference in feel if anything else. Lots of how a car "feels" and "drives" cannot be measured.

Donte99TL

Some of you know why I went with the auto from my one post

ensley696

Drive both cars at the dealership and decide for yourself. I did and was hooked on getting the 6MT.

deandorsey

[QUOTE=TooLate]I'm sorry, but I do not believe that AT ALL. Please prove it.

what are you an ass? how many people who HAVE the 6spd have already said there is a noticeable difference... if you think were lying than go drive one for yourself.

deandorsey

what are you an ass? how many people who HAVE the 6spd have already said there is a noticeable difference... if you think were lying than go drive one for yourself.

acura_driver

I'd rather have a car that actually stops in a shorter distance than "feels" different. "Feel" would be useful in track situations, but not in a panic situation where the ABS system and the traction of the tires determines the stopping distance.

-r

TooLate

So lemme get this straight, you can't prove it so you flame me? Excellent job, you truly are a great member full of wisdom...

As for the question at hand, a "noticable difference" does NOT equate a shorter stopping distance. Maybe the braking feels stronger, tighter, etc. But that does not change the stopping distance. I do not go by other people's "feelings", I go by raw data and physics.

TooLate

Thank you sir, it's nice to hear someone speak the truth... unlike some of the other ignorant members who just speak out of their asses.

KHill

Found this on the Motorweek website....

"Braking performance is top-notch, too, with 60-to-0 stops averaging a short, neat 115 feet. Our drivers were very impressed with our 6-speed's all-disc ABS brakes with Brembo front calipers. Results are comparable to some recent Porsche's we've tested."



And then from MotorTrend from the Comparo "California Dreamers" where they tested all AT versions of the TL, 93 Aero, CTS, and G35.



Braking, 60-0 mph, ft
TL....128

CTS.....124

G35...... 111

93 Aero.......121

acura_driver

Did both TL's have the EL42's?

-r

KHill

Both price as tested stated $35,195 so I would assume both of them had the EL42's.

BarryH

First, I don't have a TL. Second, I have a V70R that has 13" Brembo's on all four wheels - the 20' difference is compared to a stock V70. Third, if the object of brakes was to lock all four wheels and skid to a stop using the tires (or rely on anti-lock), we'd all still have drum brakes.

acura_driver

Another data point:

Road & Track
6MT
Bridgestone Potenza RE 030
60-0: 123 ft

-r

TooLate

Not only were they the same tires, but were they the same suspension (NO), were they tested on the same track (NO), were they tested by the same drivers (NO), was the weather the same (NO)?? etc. etc.

People are still under the false impression that putting huge rotors and brand name calipers on your car is going to decrease the stopping distance. In reality, the only time they will decrease the stopping distance is when the brakes are fading, something that most normal drivers have never even experienced.

spidey07

And that's the difference.

I drive for feel. Hence, manual with good brakes.

For me one of the most important aspects of a car are the brakes. 2nd only to throttle controll and traction.

Different strokes for different folks. In all my 18 years of driving I've never had to do a panic stop so I wouldn't know. Threshold braking for sure, but never panic full bore pedal.

TooLate

No one said that was "the object of brakes".

Apprently it went right over your head...

The fact is, if your stock brakes are good enough to either: a) bring the wheel to lock or b) bring the wheel to the point that anti-lock enables

then adding aftermarket, better brakes will not decrease the stopping distance. That is all there is to it. Stopping distance is effected by the weight of the car, the weight distribution, the tires, and somewhat by the suspension. As long as your brakes are strong enough to come to the point of wheel lock, there is no further you can go. The only thing aftermarket brakes will do is reduce fade and change the way the braking feels.

spidey07

from the car and driver review...

http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=6

Acura TLs equipped with the manual six-speed also get beautiful Brembo four-piston front-brake calipers, and these contributed to the shortest stopping distance of the pack—160 feet from 70 mph, with a firm pedal feel that garnered a second-highest rating on the chart. Still, one of the logbook entries accused the brakes of feeling weak during high-spirited driving. There's just no satisfying some of our editors.

This is a "sports sedan" right?

I hate to just grab stuff off the web...but...google is one's friend.

http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2312a.shtml

Braking performance is top-notch, too, with 60-to-0 stops averaging a short, neat 115 feet. Our drivers were very impressed with our 6-speed's all-disc ABS brakes with Brembo front calipers. Results are comparable to some recent Porsche's we've tested.

TooLate

If they were to test the AT TL at the same exact time it would also stop in 160 feet.

spidey07

again, proof?

I'm not saying there is any difference but I have at least provided first hand experience of both coupled with two reviews.

I still saying ultimate stopping distance is the last of my concerns on braking. The last.

TooLate

That is not first hand experience because you were not there, and you do not know any of the other specifications that I asked. It is also not proof, you can see that acura_driver also provided stopping data that was different than all of your data, proving that you can't go by seperate reviews- there are too many other variables.

My proof is the physics behind it, go read into braking and you'll understand it.
It's very simple to understand- a cars best braking is done at the point right before the wheels lock. Any brake can get the car to that point so the brakes do not matter, they will not change the stopping distance (unless fade is brought into the equation, which it is not here).

spidey07

Simple question...

Have you driven a 2004 6MT?

I thought we were talking overall braking performance here. Not 60-0 times.

Its kinda like trying to judge/comparing a car on 0-60 times...it only tells a very small portion of the story.

TooLate

I don't see how that will change the conversation... But yes, I have driven both the AT and the MT for quite some time each.

And yes, I do agree that the Brembos give the MT TL that sweet feeling that I want, I love the feedback.

But that does not mean that the stopping distance is shorter.

TooLate

Nope, I am talking stopping distance, just like you were quoting from different sources.

spidey07

Then its obvious we agree. The 6MT offers superior braking performance over the AT.



Sooooooo,

That leads back to the OP. The 6MT offers a more "performance oriented" drive due to a few key enhancements.

TooLate

No, I agree that the MT offers superior braking feel over the AT.

spidey07

Donte99TL

If this staement was true you wouldn't be driving a heavy four door family car

acura_driver

After this discussion I feel compelled to trade my TL in on an S2000. But wait, the S2000 doesn't have Brembo brakes...

-r

spidey07

meh, I needed more room. 15 years of sports cars and being able to carry only 2-3 bags of groceries finally got old.

oh well, I toiled long and hard over 350z/s2000 and the TL.

RyTyGuy

I have never drove a manual before, but my friend took me for a lesson today on his G35 Coupe. Very nice and gutsy of him. I did pretty well, and actually drove down a major road with traffic while being behind the wheel for only an hour. Does anybody know how similiar the G35 manual transmission is compared to the TL? My biggest problem today was from a dead stop to 1st Gear.

1SICKLEX

Boltjames likes both as he it reminds him of his lover. He prefers a stick as he gets to grab it more.

DARK6mt

iTrader: (1)

6 speed all the way man! My TL was the first manual, and I am very VERY glad I made the right choice.

PLUS - If you choose the wrong transmission, you will regret it very much......every time you drive.

RyTyGuy

Your 2004 TL was your first manual? How did you do the first couple of drives? I will probably be in the same boat as well as I begin to look seriously at 6MT.