WooBah

I would buy a TL today; but, I am leery because of all the stories about rattles and fit quality. The transmissions issues seemed to have been fixed with the 06 model, correct?

But, I read on the various Acura Forums post after post regarding rattles on the TL, including the 06 model. It is consistent across ALL the Forums, and they are major complaints, and plentiful. I also see a lot of posts about the quality of fit and finish on the TL, chip painting, panels not aligning etc.....

I love the value of the TL, it offers 90% of the performance of a BMW 330i at a saving of about $9,000. It has to be pushed pretty darn hard to find its limitations, something I am very unlikely to ever do. So, I would love to buy a TL today! But, I am very leery to pull the trigger when I read about the problems and they seem so profound.

On the 3 Series, 2006 model year (E90) forums, the car gets universal praise, as well as from the professional reviewers. The posters post about the upscale fit and finish, the great ride, and the great performance their 325i or 330i. Of course, there are some complaints, but they are very minor and very minimal, extremely minimal compared to the complaints from TL Owners.

I am by no means trying to slam the TL, because I honestly want to be able to buy one, and buy immediately. BUT, I am so leery now because of the rattles and fit and finish issues. I have test driven TL's that do not appear to have rattles, but many of the posts state the rattles show up after a few months.

I sure would not want to spend $35,000 on a car, which includes the California Sales tax of 8 percent, then have a rattle box. If that is indeed the case, I would rather pay the extra $9,000 and have a car that will give me pleasure, not buyers remorse.

Now, if a TL can be purchased without being a rattle box, plagued with fit and quality issues, it is the BEST BUY in the Auto market! No Question!

Any comments or opinions, suggestions?

05v6solara

I have a 2006 product based on the TL (2006 Accord V6 w/navi) and there is no rattles, which both the early TLs and Accords were known for. Best thing is, take out the demo car and see if you can get it to rattle, it might help you to satisfy any of those concerns.

Sclass88

My dad's '05 has nearly 30,000 miles on it and it doesn't have many rattles. Here and there but nothing that makes him regret buying the TL. The TL is a great car.

neuronbob

Actually, they were fixed for the 2004 model after about VIN # 14k.

...and forums always bring out people who have complaints. I have had very few, and I have a dealer eager to work with me. You can click on the "review" link in my signature to see the life of a typical 2004 TL. Not everyone is as lucky as I am.

Don't want to argue, but I would hardly call the issues with the car "profound".

The new 3 series is seriously HOT, and it deserves to be praised as such.

Sounds like you've already made your decision, but I recommend as many test drives of each of your candidates as it takes to make your decision. I speak as someone who loves his very early-build TL, has had a few minor issues, and has dealt with them pretty easily. I do not think the TL is a rattle box or is plagued with quality issues. It is true there are issues to be addressed, and for the most part, they have been. No matter how many times I do the comparison, there is no other car in the TL's class with the same bang for the buck. I was at the Cleveland Auto Show today and compared this car's direct competitors, and the TL still does well in today's market.

Good luck!

svtmike

My very early '04 has a rattle that comes out in the winter, but goes away when the weather warms up. The panels all align fine - I think the build quality is fine for a car of this cost and feature content.

I'd be far more concerned about the tires if I were you, but I wouldn't let that stop me from buying.

Mike

Imtheweezel

I have an 03 Accord, and it doesn't have rattles, it's a little loud too.
As for your comparison with the BMWs, I'm in the same position you are, trying to make up my mind. Go drive both, I guess that your major concern should be handling, which is what most people talk about. I thought that the TL handled better than both the 325 and 330 wo/ SP, and I heard no rattles, I tried listening for them. I'm going to test drive the SP ones next week.
But dude, the interior of the E90s feel cheap, the TL is much nicer on the inside than the 3 series. I don't think that the new 3 series is up there with the older one. Maybe is better on performance, but not on interior quality. It's the little details that make a difference.
If you are in the forums long enough, you'll see that people complain about the E90s too, and it can be serious stuff here and there.
Another thing that I'd bear in mind too is reliability. For$40k+ you'll get a car that after warranty is going to be expensive. For 35k you get a very reliable car. I've had BMW owners tell me that if I'm planning on keeping the car for long, to be ready to put money on it once the warranty is up, but that besides that, it's a fun car to drive. Your choice.
Let me share how I feel so far. TL all the way, much nicer interior, very little software/computer bugs (if you read BMW forums, E90 owners get their cars reprogrammed a lot), way more bang for the buck, in both toys and hp, and more reliable. I guess that the main difference should be handling, and that's mainly bc BMWs are RWD, and the TL is FWD.
So it's your pick. I'm planning in keeping my car for 6-7 years or a couple more, so I think I'll take the more reliable home. They are both very safe cars, the TL is bigger in size, and they both handle very good.
Good luck with your decision, and when you finally make one, regardless of which one, post your reasoning behind. Maybe you look into something that I haven't so far!!!

Modeler

I bought my 2004 TL in December of 2003. It's a terrible rattle box. I've had it to dealer to repair numerous rattles and creaks and every time it develops more. I'm one of those people who hear every creak and rattle and they annoy me to no end. I've about had it with this car!

But I know people who bought their 2005 and 2006 TLs in the last year or so and they've yet to develop any problems. I've ridden in one of these cars and couldn't hear anything abnormal.

Chester

My 06 TL has 300 miles on it, and both doors rattle so much I can hardly stand it, they rattle when you close them, when you open them, when you hit a manhole cover, a bump, when you play music, hell, listening to a stand up bass on the stereo (even at volumes as low as 13-14) is basically pointing out the rattles in the car from one side to another. My seatbelt rattles (The retractor thing right next to your ear). I am sure all of these can be rememdied...but sheesh!

Dkrudop

My '04 TL is solid, tight, and rattle-free. I have 25k on the odometer and still enjoy the total experience!

Brettg

Our 2005 TL (6MT) does not have any rattles or other problems yet.
But if you have the cash, get the BMW.
My last German car was a REAL mess, but maybe BMW is better than the typical German car. The TL is basicly a sporty honda accord, with the typical Honda strong and weak points, the BMW is a BMW, expensive to buy, expensive to own,
and a typical German car, big on performance, not so big on reliability.

The TL is a front wheel drive car, not a true sports car, the BMW is not very good in the snow.


Brett

Republican TL

I would go BMW or Lexus IS350 and have no regrets with either purchase if I were shopping for a car today.

WooBah

Why?

WooBah

Great Post! You gave me a lot to think about. I appreciate the time and effort you put in to the post. It is very informative and well thought out. I have not made a decision other than this fact; I will be buying a TL or a 330i very, very soon.

nednj36

beware of the rattles, tires & most of all, the infamous driveline vibration/humm/whistle/drone/wheeze/churn/buzz/gargle/hiss/blender noise at 1500 RPM's.

Just listen closely to the drone at highway speeds @ 1500 RPM's

GL!

WooBah

Ouch I had forgot about the vibration issue. Yes, that has been reported on several forums as well. Geez!! Why can't this TL not have those issues!!

KeithL

If you scan for my posts you will see I ahted my 04 TL, more squeaks and rattles than a haunted house. Interior fit and finish was poor and the damn faded dash. That said I coudl nto find a better value so I got an 06 TL Navi in Decmeber. They have address some of the squeaks and rattles. Still a few, but so far none are real annoying. The interior fit and finish is still up to tha par I would expect in this class car, but I also don't usually keep a car more than 24-30 months. The issue they still need to address is the damn dash. Hell my friends TSX dash takes more abuse and looks like new and my new dash looks like it is years old. Some how I think Honda really screwed up with QC on their USA made vehicles, the TSX is as tight as a frogs butt. The TL just seems loose even new. My Infiniti's and Toyota's had tighter better interiors, but the TL is not bad. Considering everything else you get it is not bad, they had to cut some where to get all this for the price point it is at.

gqchicago

I looked long and hard at the TL and the 330i and ended up deciding on the TL. The extra $12k to get the 330i loaded ended up making all of the difference, every stinking single little thing is optional and expensive on the BMW, and guess what, they don't really come down the prices at all! For us it was a company leased car and we had to keep the lease payments under $600 a month, and BMW just couldn't do it unless I kicked in $4-5k of my own $$ which I was totally unwilling to do on a company lease. Gave the $4k I got from selling my old car to my wife for buying furniture and we're both extremely happy.

I liked the BMW a lot but just couldn't justify the extra money, and I love the TL. Oh...what killed me most of all...for a car with the maintenance included...the Acura dealership (which is right next door to the BMW dealership) will hand wash my car free for life...when I asked BMW if they did the same they thought I was nuts! I told them Lexus also did the same thing, they acted like they had never heard of such a thing.

No rattles in my '06 TL, I did have one in the MDX which the dealer promptly addressed, for me it came down to $$, they're both great cars but the Acura is a lot better value. Keep in mind that many professional reviews rate the BMW and the TL as the #1/#2 cars in this category, they're both great cars, I think it comes down to personal preference / taste and $$. Oh...also the BMW doesn't have BSMs and can't...which bothered me..I hate door dings and I know some people don't like them, but I really wanted them. The dealership said just bring it in to the body shop and we can fix it when you get them, I think it's a big PITA to have to take your car in for service unncessarily.

nednj36

I have read many posts where owners have near flawless TL's. Insist on test driving the exact car you're going to purchase for at least 30 minutes and listen carefully to interior cabin noise and door/window frames. If it is acceptable to you during the road test you should be OK. Most of the issues were there for me from day one.

Good luck!

PS: Don't forget to give 07' Toyota Camry SE V6 a good look. It will be available in a few weeks and is a lot of car for the $$$

whatjones911

If you have the money get the 330i becuase if i had the money i would do that. Its a better car overall in my opinion but it is really more expensive. But i think the 330i is worth that much because the TL is not up to the quality of a BMW and it shows as all the rattles, vibrations, etc so thats why a 330i is significantly more expensive because you get what you paid for in a BMW

datmrman

Not to raise any arguments, but if I was to pay for something that costed a lot more, I would be expecting a lot more.

Sure BMW is known for the drive, '06 BMW 3 series with an interior that looks circa 1980s? Navigation thats NOT touchscreen?! I think thats .

Maybe its because I'm a techie nerd.

Sure the TL is not the perfect car, but is there really a perfect car? It boils down to personal preference. What is more important to you? Both are great cars. For me, the TL hit the sweet spot!

ajeetm

My 06 TL has 2100 miles on it. I do have the driveline vibration at 60mph/1500rpm but honestly it's not a big deal at all - it's just a slight vibration. It's not distracting and I only notice it when I'm trying to feel it on purpose. Regarding rattles, when I shut the radio and a/c off (which I could do via voice command) I hear some slight clicks/creaks but they're not loud enough to be annoying and disappear when the radio is on - even on low volume. As far as the dash, mine was a bit blotchy - again something I only noticed after reading it here. I just wiped some 303 across it and problem solved. Man all the anal, nit-picking complainers on this forum had me paranoid and over-analytical when I first got the car, but when I think about my actual experience, my TL has been a dream. I love looking at it, I love driving it, I love thinking about it, and I can't believe I paid so little for so much.

neuronbob

Yes, yes, YES! Totally agree. Excellent idea. I did this with my TL, I drove it a bit before I accepted it. Maybe that's why I have so few problems. Admittedly, though, some rattles appear after 10-20k miles for some people, so you wouldn't be out of the woods totally for that.

nednj36

If you do buy the car, make sure the dealer throws in a 1 year supply of Rogaine or Avacor for the Baldstone Turanza EL (Extremely Lousy) 42's to inhibit further balding

JustinZ

the TL's ride is pretty harsh... one of the things that bothers me the most

a 3 series will handle and ride better - but with the TL , you just get so much more
if you didnt tell me the prices of the car, i would think that the TL would compete with a 5 series

SouthernBoy

I have two: an '04 with manual transmission (mine), and an '05 with an automatic (wife's). Both are excellent. If you are of a mind, get the manual transmission. It opens up another dimension with the car, plus you get Blembos up front, stiffer springs and shocks, and larger sway bars.

SouthernBoy

Oh, and the manual also comes with LSD whereas the automatic does not.

LuvMyTSX

Hi guys...just taking a peek here from the TSX forum. IMO, I'd rather have a few rattles than the expensive and frequent BMW problems. FWIW, I have only one rattle in my TSX, and it's not present all the time. If you really want the TL, then get it, you can't go wrong!

JustinZ

thats because the TSX build quality is better than the TL - as it was designed and built in japan

LuvMyTSX

Maybe, but I like them both, although I can only say that from looking at the TL in the showroom, as I have not ever driven one. But if I could have one of both, well, that would be awesome.

Maybe the OP should look at a TSX if rattles are worrisome for him/her on the TL?

JetJock

I've got a '04TL. So far, I have not had ONE rattle. I had the dealer replace the seat covers with the '05 style, had to pay myself for new cushions and seat heater, but now, I've got the new covers, no rattles, and NO regrets buying my TL. It's been one great car. The paint is awesome, (after Zaino), I constantly get compliments over how nice the paint looks. Just stay away from trucks kicking up stones. No car is immune to rocks...the paint these days just isn't as strong as it used to be, but the quality of the paint job itself is incredible. I don't have one defect in the paint. I love my TL...and there's nothing out there that I can afford, I'd be willing to switch cars over. The TL ROCKS!!!

SouthernBoy

Hey there, JetJock.

You know, it's funny about all of this. My TL has been virtually flawless and is a real joy to own and drive. I can get easily bored with a car that ceases to entertain me, but so far, I don't see this happening with my TL. While not the most powerful sports sedan out there (I am one who would like a large engine with more horsepower and especially, more torque), I find my TL to be quite capable of handling most situations. I believe the word "capable" is a good description because it covers a lot of ground. The TL may not do everything perfectly or in super fashion, but it does so many things very well.

Hard to find fault with this car. Especially the manual version, since I have such a strong bias in favor of manual transmissions. Really very nice.

neuronbob

The TL is certainly a "jack of all trades" and master of some. That alone makes it appealing.

Riu

Well i have a 04 with 12k miles and it had one rattle. I fixxed it and now all is silent.

MyCar

Recently bought an 05 TL with 6k miles. I've had it for a few weeks and don't hear any rattles. The only problems I have is one speaker is blown and there are a couple scratches that I didn't see at the dealership or I would've made them buff them out before I bought it. Great car though.

You will enjoy either one.

KJW73

Can't say that my TL hasn't had its share of rattles and unaligned panels. The second day I had the car I noticed that one of the front panels wasn't aligned; all it needed was to be pushed in so the hinge connected - no big deal and not a problem now. The other was a rattling noise from the front cabin. We finally determined that it was the metal around the shifter area; easily fixable. My b/f pushed something so tiny (like a piece of paper) under it to stop the vibration and it immediately stopped and haven't heard it since. I'd rather have him do what he can rather than to take it to the dealer and have them take the entire car apart and then putting back together again - incorrectly (as I've experienced in the past).

Regardless of my woe's - I'm still in love with the car.

gstais

I have an '04 TL with 55,000 miles. This car is very tight. I have not had any issues with rattles or ill fitting panels.

The only issue I did have was with my driver's seat. The seat back was replaced under warranty for premature wear.

Also, the original Bridgestone Tires were crap. I replaced those afer 3,000 miles.

All in all, the TL is one very reliable and enjoyable car.

Regards,

KeithL

Initial test drive will only identify if you will be buying oine with noises, it does not mean you won't get any. My 04 TL was stone quiet for the first month of so and 1-2k miles. But several cold/hot cycles of temperature I think loosened stuff up.

priggly

I also like the TL and want to buy one but these are my concerns:

- driveline vibration/harmonic distortion history at highway speeds
- assorted rattles and squeaks (I hate these noises in a car. They are a throwback to the 60's and 70's and should not be present in any modern automobile, regardless of price.)
- premature seat leather wear (even the cars on the showroom floors of dealers look three years old!)
- pulling to the right or left (saleman says the car is exquisitely sensitive to road crown; I test drove three separate cars in a row which pulled to the right, two more subsequently did not. Consistency is obviously a problem.)
- the gauges are not particularly legible, particularly in bright sunlight. I drive in both the US and Canada and the secondary mph numbers inside the kph numbers on the Canadian spec cars are virtually invisible.
- the ride is rough over all but the smoothest roads. This is not particularly noticeable on short rides such as test drives but on long drives becomes somewhat of a problem. Yes, it is a "sporty" ride but I suspect would be fatiguing on bad pavement over a long drive or period of time.
- smallish trunk with rigid rear seatbacks so that the utility of the car is compromised (this will not be a problem for most).

Otherwise, the car is quite commendable, has both superb sound system and navigation, is of high value, is way above average in safety according to informedforlife.org and obviously those who have a copy that does not vibrate, rattle, etc. are pleased. Those who do not are emphatically not so.

How therefore does one know if one is getting Dr. Jekyll or Mr. Hyde? To quote Shakespeare, "Aye, there's the rub." Driving the car you actually buy helps but is not really the equivalent of two or three months of ownership when some of these problems seemingly become apparent.

One more point, in your comparison shopping don't omit checking out the new Lincoln Zephyr, soon to become the MKZ. It is a very nice car: quiet, refined, super sound system and navigation, great seats with high quality leather that does not crack and crease, excellent ride quality, superb 6-speed automatic transmission with seamless shifting, equivalent warranty to the TL BUT it also comes with prepaid maintenance for a period of time. The only drawback presently is an inadequate 3.0L engine which takes 8 seconds or so to reach 60 mph but this is soon to be remedied by switching it for a new 3.5L. At that point the car will be a real contender in this category.

The 330i is a great car but is hamstrung by two serious flaws: 1) the virtually universally despised iDrive which is obligatory if you want the LOGIC7 sound system or navigation and 2) run-flat tires with their inherent noise, stiffness, availability and high replacement cost issues.

gstais

I guess you are already predisposed to not buying a TL. So I would suggest you do everyone a favor and NOT buy one. Your perceived cons far outweigh your pros.

Too bad the TL is a really great car!

GeraldB

My '05 TL is a year old with no rattles. I do have a minor gripe about that 1500 rpm vibration at neighborhood speeds; it's not noticeable on the highway. I sure don't understand paying more for a BMW. I'm a little bugged that some newer cars have more horsepower - including the '06 Impala and '07 Camry, for cripe's sake - but I'm sure I made the right choice in '05 and I think I'd choose the TL today also. Great car.