Polacura

I got the timing belt in and rotated the engine 5-6 times and the marks are always right on. My question is it normal when tuning over the engine (plus installed) for it to be hard to turn and then all the sudden easy? Is this the valves opening and closing?

Polacura

plugs installed is what I meant. No edits on this forum?

NvrDwn

^^^ it's normal. Btw yeah no edits, it's stupid as hell. No one can convince me otherwise.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

You're feeling the compression.
As long as you cover the spark plug holes, it's much easier to turn the engine over with the plugs removed, then install new plugs after the job is completed. Sort of like killing 2 birds with one stone, so to speak.

nfnsquared

Disagree based on experience. I couldn't tell any difference when doing my TB change/valve adjustment (plugs in or out), leading me to surmise it's due to valve spring pressure and not compression.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

You may disagree, buy if you've worked on thousands of engines you'll agree that they will turn over easier with the plugs removed. Ever hear an engine turn over with no compression after bent valves, engine spins exceptionally fast and sounds like a sewing machine, same as checking compression with plugs removed. Also, when finding TDC it will turn much easier with the plugs removed, turn the engine until resistance is felt as the air is compressed, wait until it's released, then the engine will turn easier once again until the next compression is felt.
Now, it could have been that you turned the engine over so slowly or stopped so frequently that compression never had the opportunity to build, but an engine will turn over easier when plugs are removed.

Just my

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

^Darn time out!
Just wanted to add that you should notice the difference after finishing the timing belt and turning the engine thru a few revolutions to verify the marks as it will be easier with the plugs removed.

Comptechtl2367

Normal. When I do timing belts I always pull the plugs (need to be replaced anyway) just to make it easier to turn over. As stated you are feeling the compression.

nfnsquared

Not talking about "1000's of engines" (and I highly doubt that you or anyone in this forum has worked on "thousands" of engines....). I'm talking about my experience with the J32A3. There was no difference with the plugs in or out when turning by hand.

Polacura

I replaced the plugs already so didn't want to pull them. I pulled the FI fuse and turned over the engine a few times and checked all my marks. Everything was good so I started it up and is running good with no issues since changing everything.

Man the crank bolt was hard to remove! I couldn't break it free with my hand tools. I went to a friends and with his MacGun and a decent air compressor it would still not break free. We ended up jacking the car up more so I could slide a 1' pipe on a 2' breaker bar with a 19mm deep impact socket with no extension. Using my legs and stand up in front of the car with this option finally did it.

Another problem I ran into was getting the timing belt on. I started at the bottom on the crank and went CCW but then couldn't get the belt over the back valve pulley. I ended up pulling the tensioner pulley and then putting the belt on and then the tensioner again. Bolting it in and running the battery hold down in to hold it before pulling the pin on the hydraulic tensioner.

aIRpeACE

iTrader: (2)

it should be normal

Vlad_Type_S

iTrader: (3)

A key factor in this debate is the size of your tool... The longer the pipe, the more torque and the less likely you are to feel a difference. When I did my valve adjustment, I removed the plugs. As I was turning the engine, I experienced the same thing as OP. I was using a 1/2dr Craftsman with a bicycle seat post as a cheater bar. While I don't disagree with the fact that compression manifests itself as resistance, I'm thinking that the valves are what cause the intermittent resistance feeling.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Been away for awhile, but as we all like to exaggerate once in a while 1,000's may have been a bit high, I bet you I've come close to 1000. Know I've rebuilt more than 200 engines and could state every bolt, torque and clearance spec etc for Pontiac and Chevy V8's, replaced over 100 plastic coated cam gears and some of these engines needed complete disassembly, couldn't count the number of engines I've checked cam timing, deck clearance, cylinder cc check for guys, mic cranks, cylinder dia, add in the countless camshaft/lifter install, hydraulic, solid, roller, along with valve jobs, changing valve springs, retainers, guides, valve stem oil seals, OE and aftermarket, port & polish heads and match intake manifold, countless used engines installed, and when drag racing, every 2 weeks the engine was refreshed in some manner, and naturally if a problem, more often, but you're one up on me, never had a J32A3 engine apart and hope I never find the need.

YeuEmMaiMai

as each cylinder compresses you will feel the resistance as you are turning it by hand with the plugs in... Personally I would do the plus with the belt just to make it easier and facilitate a compression test

I hate cars

There's always a difference with the plugs out. It's always easier to turn over without compression. Always, unless you're inching it around so slow compression bleeds down at the same rate you're turning it.

Your valve train theory doesn't work either. When you spin the cams there are "tight" and "loose" spots but the crank has 2x the leverage on the cams and along with compression and friction the cams have no noticeable effect when turning it over. These engines use low spring pressures compared to what I'm used to and even on those engines with 2-4x more spring pressure you couldn't feel the valve train even with the heads off.

If you can't feel a difference with the plugs in vs out and your turning the engine over and not just back and forth or inching it at a very slow rate, you need to start looking for the cause. There's no way you have enough sensitivity to feel the valvetrain and not the compression. Plus with both cams as a whole they tend to cancel each other out with those tight and loose spots.

johnny3

I think "by hand" would mean no ratchet/socket or wrench, just gripping the C S pulley & turning the engine thru, much easier with plugs removed.

nfnsquared

No, by hand (at least to me) means turning the crank with a ratchet/socket (as alluded to by the title of this thread). Both cranking cylinder TDC to cylinder TDC for the valve clearance adjustment and complete turn throughs 5 - 6 times during the timing belt install.

I get a kick out of all the so called experts here commenting on something they've never tried with the J32A3. Again, my comments come from someone who's actually tried this both ways

I hate cars

Who here that has commented has not tried it both ways?

Who has claimed to be an expert?

I've done it both ways, there's a significant difference with the plugs out.

Common sense says that when you've got a cylinder of air and you're compressing it 11 times smaller than it started, it just might require energy to do so. I've never once in my life heard anyone on any engine say there's no difference with the plugs in or out. The J32 is nothing special, contrary to popular belief it's also stuck with the laws of physics. You've made no mention to the comments by myself and others at what rate you were turning it over and whether or not you were going back and forth or just one direction.