Have u guys seen the 06 accord new HP. 244 w/ the new SAE method and still a 3.0, thats only 14 less horses from the TLs new SAE number. I know the accords engine got improved for 06, but that’s cutting it very close. (sorry, im venting) And what’s the deal w/ Acura making the TSX so close to the TL now. It basically has everything the TL has interior wise. SOO basically TSX now even closer to the TL and the RL distancing itself from the TL, and NOW we have the Accord poking its nose in the mix, supposedly a 6spd manual will be available as well as led brake lights and VSA for 06. Now if only they added AWD as a option to the TL this would’ve made the TL much diff and desirable than the TSX and Accord. When official pics come out for the TSX and the Accord, I just might do a trade to A) save gas B) save on insurance and C) get some cash (maybe). Acura/Honda needs to learn how to make their products more distinct from each other, and have the more expensive cars have stuff that the less expensive can’t have. So what’s next, a RSX w/ navi, LSD, led, hid, brembo, etc….OR maybe for 07 the TSX will get 3.2 engine, brembo, but here’s the catch for 07 the TL will be made in JAPAN and the TSX in AMERICA.

 

 

Have you priced out a Camry XLE V6 with all the bells and whistles? While not an ES 330 it has some of that cars features. The Avalon is even closer. With that said the TSX needed to gain some things. Memory seating is just that. Unless it was a mute point, there were no mention of Memory seats, mirrors, and driver settings like the TL. If anything, Acura is doing to the TSX what you see other luxury companies doing. A C-Class has alot of features that the E has. Not everything.

The TL still has some things to itself and next year should be the MMC for it so there will be greater distinction.

The Accord on the other hand has been down on sales. Whether styling is to blame or not is a matter of opinion. Offering VSA is a good thing since it can be had on just about all of its competitors. LED's add distinction and more then likely Honda will advertise them as a safty feature as they light up faster then regular bulbs.

IMO, the RSX should have more features. Navi has no where to fit on the dash but I would expect Sat radio and Xenon low beam lights. Brembo would be icing on the cake but only the Type S getting them.

SH-AWD is not likely to be seen on the TL till the next generation comes out. As it stands it is the one thing the RL has over the TL. Yeah, it is true the RL has Realtime Navi Traffic and all but most if not all people agree the TL is more fun to drive and is only hampered by FWD. AWD would make sale of the RL become worse then they are.

I agee that there needs to be more separating Honda and all Acura models from each other. If and when the new V8 appears for the next RL, then I thing we will see more distinction.

 

I agree but you have to think about the fact that all these cars are due for refresh this year. The TL is not. Next october will be the refresh of the TL. They might give us a type S again or something. Just be patient!

 

With the amount you would loose (depreciation) on a year or two old car on trade in vs. the large markup for hybrid vs. gasoline I am not sure you would see any savings for years. The Accord only gets about 30 MPG anyway I think. I get 19 / 20 city and around 30 highway now on my TL. Someone that drives a bit less spirited would do even better.

Hybrids are marked up considerably from the gas version of the car. If you want to do your part for the environment that’s cool though. But, I think trading 2004 or 2005 TL in on a Hybrid Accord to save money probably doesn't add up.

I could be wrong though as there are some tax breaks and things for those that purchase Hybrids.

My next car very well maybe a hybrid but, not dumping my 2004 TL for a new car just yet.

 

I thought it was said that there will not be a Type S anything save for the RSX for as long as it is with us.

Your right in that the TL gets its update next year. I'd like to see a hybrid performance model myself since some sort of hybrid Acura was hinted at months ago.

 

U guys r right, but patience is annoying me. The TL should’ve come out w/ the stuff the TSX always had, including signals in mirror, and other stuff that I forget….The A-Spec should’ve been an option to begin with, and they could’ve done that for the 06, also they could have added some other little things, like navi traffic, better leather(?), poss a 18inch wheel without the A-Spec option. Every manufacture improves slightly on their best seller every year to maintain their ground, nothing major, but as stated above those little things would have been easy, and it would’ve also appease the TL followers as to show that they(Honda/Acura) didn’t forget or ignore the TL. Honda knows that they have followers, so they should kinda cater to them a little more. I know that if every year there’s a major change that will piss off a lot of the previous years buyers, but like Honda did to the TSX (every year, adding little things, except for 06 (major things added)) that would have made the TL owners kinda happy. One thing’s true, the TSX was a better product to begin w/ since introduction than the TL (I mean more thought out and refined since introduction, than the TL), but Honda kept adding little things EVERY YEAR, now Y didn’t they do this to the TL.

 

Size is definately a major difference in the TSX and the TL. I recently sat in the TSX at the dealer while I was in for service and my head was hitting the moonroof! Not to mention my face was much closer to the windshield in the TSX than I felt comfortable with. My head is not even close to the moonroof in the TL. Even if the HP in the TSX comes close to the TL, I'll still take the TL.

 

The TSX is the European Honda Accord and it's a much smaller car than the TL (interior space). I liked the TSX when I was car shopping, but we decided the back seats were to small with the baby car seat. Besides I'm 6 foot tall and like to stretch my legs, in the TL this is not a problem. The TSX was to tight to have any rear passengers comforatble.

I would like to see the TL come standard with speed variable wipers and the radio that changes volume based on speed. So when you come to a stop, the wipers slow down and the radio drops a few bars. Plus the option to turn these features off.

Then you take the TL, pump out 260 HP on Regular 87 Unleaded and make everyone happy! This 91 octane minimum is killing me. I have to drive around wasting gas to find a pump that has 91 octane. We have 87, 89 and 93/94 around here.

I think the 3.5L from the RL might make it's way to the TL one day. Once Honda gets the V-8 into the RL and into the Ridgeline.

Is this their first V-8?

A-Train

 

I got a feeling that since the oil industry and governments in their infinite wisdom want the rich oil business to become so rich that you are going to see performance gasoline engines going BYE BYE. Regardless of the reason (not sufficient investment in refineries, etc)

Honda will react and build something that will get better gas mileage.

This happened in the 70s and will happen again. You are seeing a shift to hybrids now since they are the interim solution to alternative fuels. How will that impact the TL... who knows... But the Hybrid 06 v6 accord has more power I imagine than the 06 tl. The other thing they are doing is cylinder deactivation. Now while this technology has proven to be more fuel efficient, having all the cylinders active provides a better throttle response when it is time to get on the throttle...

I think acura will plan this all out for 07... 06 is a wait and see year for acura and maybe they are better off since chrysler is producing nothing be hemis and they will deeply discounting those when gas hits 3bucks a gallon next year.

 

What is the price difference between 87 and 93/94? For me, the difference between 87 and 91 (California does not have anything higher than 91) is around 20-25 cents. If the price difference between 87 and 93/94 is similar to my price difference, I think you should just get the 93/94. Getting higher than 91 will NOT adversely affect you one bit, but getting lower definitely can.

 

The Accord is just plain ugly right now and the TSX is too small, stereo sucks and when I was looking, didn't have half the features of the TL. Now that they are upgrading some of the features it will definitely be a better buy but I'll still take my TL any day.

 

Oh, puh-leeze. Oil is a commodity like anything else and the current pricing situation is simple supply-and-demand economics. If you really think the oil companies are "getting rich" on the current gasoline prices, you are really naive. Their profit margins haven't changed, and they are selling LESS, so they ain't getting rich.

If you want to blame someone, try blaming China, who is suddenly using up a lot more oil than they were even a year ago. This cuts supplies and drives up prices. And the environmentalists who haven't allowed a single new refinery to be built in the U.S. in over 20 years. (There's that pesky "supply" thing again.) Or the politicians who won't let us drill for our own oil offshore of CA or in Alaska or in the Gulf of Mexico or in Texas or Oklahoma. (Yep, that supply thing again.)

The gasoline engine will be around for a LONG time, and some of the best developments in hp and overall efficiency are coming in the next few years. And if we can make some changes here and there, there will be enough gas for all of us to enjoy them.

 

Oil companies are definitely reaping the benefits of higher oil prices.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/050728/earns...bil.html?.v=10

I used to work for Exxon and believe me when the price of oil was in the toilet we all felt it pretty hard. I left before it got better but I know they are having a windfall right now.

 

Exxon makes money because it's more than just an "oil company". From your article:

"Profits from exploration and production jumped $1 billion to $4.9 billion, a reflection of strong crude and natural gas prices offsetting a 4.3 percent reduction in output, the company said.

Earnings from refining and selling petroleum products rose $714 million to $2.2 billion, while earnings from its chemicals business were $814 million, up $207 million from a year earlier."

Since they do exploration and production, they also get the benefit of higher world oil prices on the oil they produce, as well as on product they produce and sell at the prevailing prices. But for the traditional oil company that buys oil on the open market (or under contract), or refined product from the refineries, they are merely passing along the cost of the raw material, and higher prices usually mean they sell less.

And as you know, it wasn't that long ago that oil companies of all kinds were taking it in the neck big time. In the late 80's and the 90's (not long ago in business terms), the U.S. oil industry almost died completely when oil went to $8 a barrel and stayed there.

But also, note the rest of the story:

"The company said its capital and exploration spending rose from $3.6 billion to $4.5 billion."

They make an additional billion here, and spend an additional billion there ...

I guess I'm just reacting to the tired implication that oil companies are rich fatcats screwing the public. Oil companies are free enterprise just like MacDonald's or Sears Roebuck, and they don't "owe" us low prices. Let's not fall into the trap of thinking business is evil, or that profit is a bad thing ...

 

To get back on track, I guess I have to wonder why the TL doesn't offer some of the stuff the direct competition does ... namely:

- Full-time display of time and temperature
- Comprehensive trip computer on info (or Nav) screen
- Heated seats and steering wheel
- Speed-sensitive wipers and radio volume
- Power folding outside rearview mirrors
- 18" wheels
- More torque

These are just a few of the items either standard or readily available on the Nissan Maxima, which is probably the TL's closest competitor in terms of size, price, hp, final drive type, etc. For the TL to be positioned as a luxury sport vehicle, yet not have the things its competitors have, is embarassing.

I love the looks of the TL, and its nice interior, but the Maxima offers equal performance and more useful and accessible amenities for a lower final price. You may not like the Maxima, but it's a great buy!

 

Um, what do you mean it has almost all these things:

-Full-time display of time and temperature - clock is always displayed in the center, and temp can always be displayed under the odometer.
- Comprehensive trip computer on info (or Nav) screen - it is by the odometer, ok so you have to press a button a couple of times but if it was in the nav you would also have to.
- Heated seats and steering wheel - has heated seats. You want a heated steering wheel in Dallas????
- Speed-sensitive wipers and radio volume - the wipers are speed-sensitive when in interval mode. Radio volume I agree with you.
- Power folding outside rearview mirrors - no, but then again do you really need it?
- 18" wheels - can get as an option
- More torque - welcome to Honda!!!

 

Now you are talking! Throw in cornering lamps and ventilated seats and we have a winner!

Hopefully, Acura will look at the ventilated seats in the Avalon, ES300, new IS and Saab 9-5 and get them in the TL!

 

Actually, the TL does have speed sensing wipers. They are only like this in "intermitting mode"

 

If having these types items would make the majority of my TL brothers and sisters happy then cool just make them optional and not standard because I like the current price range of the TL.

I think all of these items are cool but I also think it’s cool that I don’t have to wade through pages and pages of options when I am ready to buy a TL like some of the other sport luxury cars.

 

I wanna know why any of you guys that have '04 and '05 TLs care what the '06 has? In the first place, do you all plan on trading in your current ride and getting the '06 for a few little features?

Second, and more importantly, do you realize that if they make significant changes to the '06 model that your trade-in value on the '04 and '05 will diminish?

Personally I don't care either way. I'm on a 3 year lease that's not up until 11-07. But I think the old adage is true, be careful what you wish for.

 

The could leave thecar untouched for all I care. Its not like the upgradesare going to trickle down to me :P

 

I too truly miss my heated steering wheel.. O yes, even in Dallas!!

My two complaints would be:
-First and foremost a lack of fold down rear seats.
-Of course, the heated steering wheel :-)

Power folding mirrors are nice until someone walks into them and "breaks" them off etc...... I now prefer the spring loaded folding type over power.

 

I didn't know these were legitimate complaints. Not having a roof over your head? Legitimate. Not having enough food to eat during a day? Legitimate. Complaining because some models of Honda are too close together feature-wise? NOT legitimate!

 

Not sure how old you are but I watched the american muscle car era disappear and chrysler almost lose their shirt since they did not pay attention to the market and they continued to build less efficient cars.

Car manufacturers will listen to the market and build whatever is needed to address the consumer issues. That's why regardless of energy policy if we are spending 3 bucks a gallon for gas you will not see so many performance cars out there. Look at acura no v8, is this on purpose or are they watching the market. In this country we have 4, 5, and 6 liter engines. When I reported to a manager in the UK he told me that over there you had a 2 liter car. If you owned a car with 3 or more liters you were considered rich.

And btw oil is not like pork bellies or the orange crop... It is not easily replaced and petroleum is used almost everything. I have yet to see a pork belly paved road. LOL

 

I'm an old guy. Mickey. And I had a couple of those 60's-era muscle cars. But check your American dealers today ... they are all about horsepower and displacement, and look at the plans for now through 2015 - Chrsyler alone is already on line to produce a ton of big V-8's, with their "SRT" division doing better than any other. Ford and Chevy are doing the same. I'd say they ARE listening to the marketplace, and the marketplace wants hp and torque. It's only a tiny, tiny part of the market that is asking for a Prius.

And Americans are obviously not unwilling to fork over $2.50 - 3.00 a gallon for gas. They don't like it, but figure it's the price you pay. And as you know, when inflation-adjusted, gas is still a real bargain here. Now, in the U.K., the gov't. taxes the snot out of it (something like 2/3 of the total price is taxes). That's a good example of what happens when the gov't. controls too many things.

I also disagree that gasoline isn't a commodity. The price floats from minute to minute based on supply and demand ... I'd say that meets the definition. And as for replaceability, there'll probably be oil as long as there's pork bellies and oranges. There are vast untapped reserves all over the world, and we haven't even explored 3/4 of the earth yet. Unfortunately, oil has been used as a political football, and there's a lot of false information out there. The American Petroleum Institute (spokesman for the industry) said recently we have a 200-year supply right here in the U.S., but that report got squashed and buried within days. Too many people don't want that kind of thing known. Go figure.

But you know what? A pork belly road would sure ride smooth ...

 

We also have 7 and 8 litre engines, mickey3c!

And Honda is apparently building a v8 engine.. for the Ridgeline and eventually the RL... they stuck with efficient v6 engines because they were good at it, and didn't have a need for a v8. Fuel prices have gone up, but v8's will always be around, because the demand is there, like Mike_TX said.

Anyway, the TL was not chosen for more features and updates, not because Acura doesn't care about the TL, but because doing so will actually negatively affect their edge in the market. The TL's biggest advantage, despite having FWD, is its value. If they "listened" to these people and offered all these ridiculous luxury features, they will either A) resort to options/packages which will lead to higher production costs and less efficiency, or B) continue to offer as all-or-nothing, which Acura buyers love (just think about it; it played a big role in your buying decision), and increase the price.

Mind you, the TL's for North America only, meaning higher production cost per vehicle compared to Accords and TSX's which are sold in higher volume, world-wide. Acura will certainly lose a lot of customers if they were to offered the car @ $40k+... even with all the added lux.

My guess is that the TL will get the SH-AWD & possibly more lux features as options when, and only when the RL gets the V8. This is by far the only profitable and marketable way to bring the TL on par with the RWD/AWD competition in the entry lux.

I don't know where I'm going with this...

 

There are a lot of people (like my parents for example) who just can't afford a BMW, a Lexus, or an Infiniti (even the lowest one). But they COULD afford the TSX. So what happens if Acura keeps moving "upmarket"? Then they lose all those customers who bought an Acura because of its good value. Why would they do such a thing?

 

The TSX is a great value. Yes their engines could use more power and some more features.

In time the TSX will go up market as the TL did. Logic says that it has to gain features. Now, it can add somethings more slowly because of the TL but what is being added was planned to begin with.

Memory needed to be on it as most cars in that price range has memory. That was just one example.

Lexus raised their prices becausue they gambled on people liking their products so much that they would pay a higher price (exchanged rates helpd the cause too). Lexus like Acura offers more car for less money compaired to MB and others.

With the RL adding a Technology package this coming model year, I will bet that we start seeing option packages on other Acuras (the MDX already is there). So for those who want more features and are willing to pay for them can have them and those who don't will not have to.

 

as a country, we use more oil than any other country in the rest of the world, so we shouldnt blame china, but we should blame ourselves. they have ~1 billion people and we have about ~275 million. we use more than them and they have ~4x more people..

 

what do u expect from the k24?

it's an inline 4 that's 2.4 liters. if you want torque, get a 402. you cant expect to get torque out of a small engine without some sort of FI. whether it be n2o, a blower, or a snail. it is impossible to turbo the TL engine because the headers are connected to the block. you can pay comptech to make you a block. they made their own block, so they could use their own headers. then, your going to need to find a company like GE or benson to custom make iron ductile sleeves so that they could actually take some abuse. with all that work, it might cost u 15,000+ because everything must be custom made.

it's each to supercharge the k24 though. you will void the warranty though, but you can easily make 300 whp with 9 psi from a blower. there are lots of SC k24's out there. there is a SCed k24 in a lotus elise and those cars have VERY VERY little room to work with.

high displacement=bad gas mileage=more torque

honda dosent seem to care about the torque issue because HP #'s sell cars.

 

You live in Texas, just use your pickup for cargo.

 

I wasn't refering to S/C'ing the k24. Rumors abound that a turbo 4 is coming. To make that motor profitable, then using it in more products will be necessary. This is why the J seriers V6 is used in all but the smallest Acura/ Honda's. I do not see a TSX getting a V6 as the car is well balanced as it is. However, turbo charge it and you'll have an even more dynamic car. Plus it has been stated (if you do a search on TOV) that the K24 is a pride a joy for Honda and that there is more that can be done to that motor.

 

How many people would actually use a fold down seat? If I had it then maybe however from past experience with my two Accords I owned then I never used it except for once or twice and even then it wasn't necessary to a large degree.

 

I like the fold down option. Like you said you very rarely need them but it is nice when the time presents itself.

Power folding mirrors don’t see the reason for that just something else to break.

Acura looks at total sales when they determine to add different mods to the car. Do you think in 06 or 07 Acura is going to change just because they have in the past. If they are selling close to the numbers they were puting up in 04 in 06 Your not going to see a major change in the TL. You may see a hybrid version to jump on the bandwagon but I dont think you will see a major redesign like years past when sales were less than steller.


About the gas I forget who was complaining about the 91 octane raiting. Just put the 93 in. IM sure the gain from driving around to find 91 is lost. Not to mention if you fill up your tank 2x a week and the differnce in gas in .30 from 87-93 is only going to be around 5 dollers if your tank is empty $260. a year. Yes I do complain about the price of gas but what are you going to do "Drive an Accord"

 

There are only a few things I think the TL "needs". One of them is a rear sunshade. The next would be a power tilt/telescope steering wheel, and a 6 spd tranny (auto).

Now the only lux item I would like to have would be venti seats. Test drove the new GS a while back and the venti seat feature was NICE.

Other then those things I feel the TL is complete.

Oops, I forgot about Keyless Access. That would be good too. I can't see why there are those who are wishing for the type of key the Accord has. Not having to do anything other then turn a switch (should be a button) is way better IMO.

 

Placing blame is futile and irrelevant.....this is a free market economy and you're seeing how it works firsthand. Our demand for oil has been the result of the strength of our economy. (While oil has been rallying over the past few years, there were occassions when our demand faltered a bit which resulted in short term price drops) Current US and Euro consumer demand with the ever increasing demand from emerging economies like China and India is just something we need to adapt to. If one does not like it, they can look to public transportation to meet their mobility needs. As I dont like the increased pump prices, I commute by train daily....although increases in gas prices have resulted in increased ridership (read: demand) which later results in fare increases. That said, if more folks opted for public transit (read lower oil demand) then we might see a reduction in oil prices...caveat: this sometimes unfortunately results in reduced oil production in order to maintain price levels. (read: either way, we'll get screwed to some degree.)

Back on topic, I wouldnt sweat the advances Honda has made with the Accord and TSX. IMHO, their only advantage over the TL is fuel economy and maybe their Made in Japan assembly (my preference, at least) . The TL is a nicer sedan than both but IMHO, it could benefit from a boost in torque (i.e.: an add'l 12-15lb-ft would be nice).

 

edit: Accord Hybrid being made in Japan.

 

With all due respect, I think your head is screwed on wrong.

Yes, we use a LOT more oil than China ... China is largely a peasant economy, and those billion people are still riding bicycles or oxcarts. Are you ready to go BACKWARDS to that? I hope not.

But what troubles me most is the whole notion of "blame" in your message. HUH?!?! I'm proud of our progress and our accomplishments as a nation. We're younger than any other country (229 years old v. China's 5,000 years or so), and we're more advanced than every other country in the world. "Blame" is the last thing I'd confer on us. The amount of oil we use is a measure of our industrial strength and our progress and our vitality as a nation, all of which require fuel. In fact, China's increasing demand for oil is because we've sown the seeds of capitalism there and they finally can afford to have some industrial development themselves.

But my point is simply that the oil producing nations are having a hard time keeping up with demand, in part because China has suddenly been buying up a lot of it. BTW, they also cased the price of cement to go up because they used half the entire world production of it last year building roads!

Go on being embarassed about our oil consumption if you want ... I'm not. It's an industry that employs a lot of people and it powers the greatest nation on earth. And, besides ... if we didn't use oil, what would we do with it?

 

Not embrassed but, if we were really all that advanced we would be using something other then Oil already. But, politics and economics (read big business and their lobiest) don't want to move off of oil. Why should we have to rely on 3rd world countries that for the most part dislike us? If we didn't use it someone else would or just leave it in the ground. Why does it HAVE to be used if there are other resources that can be used. Such as E85 (15% oil still) Solar, or Hydrogen or something else. Or even hybrids yes still need oil but, less. I think eventually we will get there but, not for a while.

Back in the early to mid 1900s the Auto manufacturing industry supplied allot of jobs. Now lots of it is automated or over seas.

Would be nice some day not have to rely on 3rd World countries for anything. Not to have to make deals with terroists or fight wars to 'protect' our oil intrests.