Torque Steer-TL's got it. WHO CARES?? long post
03-03-2004, 04:28 PM
#41
The TL has some of the worst turn-in of any car I've ever driven. I blame most the cheap rubber, but it's also just poorly balanced and softly sprung. Nothing shameful, that's the way Acura WANTED it.
But I didn't by the TL for autocrossing so I don't care. I'm not going to make believe that it's a high performance sports sedan when it's not...and this was done by Acura on purpose to balance ride and handling.
Perhaps an A-SPEC would be significantly better...but that's another $4500 (with install) and that performance would come at the expense of ride quality...which with my 100mi/day commute is of paramount importance.
But I didn't by the TL for autocrossing so I don't care. I'm not going to make believe that it's a high performance sports sedan when it's not...and this was done by Acura on purpose to balance ride and handling.
Perhaps an A-SPEC would be significantly better...but that's another $4500 (with install) and that performance would come at the expense of ride quality...which with my 100mi/day commute is of paramount importance.
03-03-2004, 06:03 PM
#42
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I'll chime in as well.
TL 6mt not have torque steer? Surely one jests if they say this.
For me it is SEVERE. But I can deal with it. RWD would make the TL 'perfect'
IMHO
Also on throttle steering - on my prelude SH throttle steering was everything and it responded just as I wanted...more throttle = nose in.
TL 6mt not have torque steer? Surely one jests if they say this.
For me it is SEVERE. But I can deal with it. RWD would make the TL 'perfect'
IMHO
Also on throttle steering - on my prelude SH throttle steering was everything and it responded just as I wanted...more throttle = nose in.
03-03-2004, 09:53 PM
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Sorry but if I had to chose between being able to take a turn at 70 mph without any steering wheel twitching, and being able to have adequate traction in the snow/ice/rain, I'd rather have the latter. The TL has the best power, technology, fit-and-finish, safety for the money, or I would have sold out to BMW, or bought a G35 like so many others that probably trash FWD simply because their cars are so boaring in every other regard.
03-03-2004, 09:56 PM
#44
Guys everybody keeps comaring a Tl with how an M3 handles. That is not the purpose of the vehicle Its a comfy device with very good athletic talents and a hell of a powerful motor. Have any of you guys driven an M your ass feels every pebble on the road you have to cross a pothole at 3 miles an hour to avoid destruction the engine sounds like its in your head all the time. such comparison are asinie. Ive driven a 328 same car as the (330) at length yes the car was great but it paled compared to the TL in comfort amenities finese and power. No its certainly not a dud but the whole pakage is just less. Plus it costs more!
03-03-2004, 10:19 PM
#45
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Even the 5AT has A LITTLE torque steer, but it is really a small amount and is easily manageable and not bothersome. The 6MT likely has more--but I haven't test-driven for myself. The TL is not a perfect car, but it's close enough for me.
03-04-2004, 06:11 AM
#46
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I had a 99 M3 and there IS a difference in driving. As far as handling goes, the M will slap the TL silly. I think we`re all aware of that. Now, add the A-SPEC or like I did, COMPTEC springs to it, and the gap decreases dramatically. As far as Torque Steer, the steering wheel in the M stays where you put it. The TL feels like
03-04-2004, 08:34 AM
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Coming from a manual Mustang GT for 12 years, it was a difficult but in the end an excellent choice to go with the Acura TL (Automatic). Torque steer? Not a big deal. I have hit it many times on straight aways and turns. Just have to hang on. I really don't think it's a bad thing. Use some muscle to keep total control.
I have had the car for a month and have gotten used to it. I know how the car is going to react.
Just my 2 cents. Sorry
I have had the car for a month and have gotten used to it. I know how the car is going to react.
Just my 2 cents. Sorry
03-04-2004, 11:05 AM
#48
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Originally posted by Bitium
I totally agree with you. I test drove the car and I punch it a few times.....the car handle great....no torque steer. I can't speak for the automatic, but the 6mt does not have Torque steer plain and simple.
I totally agree with you. I test drove the car and I punch it a few times.....the car handle great....no torque steer. I can't speak for the automatic, but the 6mt does not have Torque steer plain and simple.
The traction analogy above is similar to what happens when you leave dirt on to pavement at an angle in a RWD car. The differing traction at that point can get the bag end a little silly. This is the same thing that occurs with a FWD when you aren't on perfect pavement.
03-04-2004, 11:12 AM
#49
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Originally posted by Skeedatl
The disproportionate amount of weight over the drive tires can easily cause the tires to reach their road holding capacity long before the rears, limiting your braking forces.
The disproportionate amount of weight over the drive tires can easily cause the tires to reach their road holding capacity long before the rears, limiting your braking forces.
03-04-2004, 11:19 AM
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Originally posted by cybermatrix
Sorry but if I had to chose between being able to take a turn at 70 mph without any steering wheel twitching, and being able to have adequate traction in the snow/ice/rain, I'd rather have the latter. The TL has the best power, technology, fit-and-finish, safety for the money, or I would have sold out to BMW, or bought a G35 like so many others that probably trash FWD simply because their cars are so boaring in every other regard.
Sorry but if I had to chose between being able to take a turn at 70 mph without any steering wheel twitching, and being able to have adequate traction in the snow/ice/rain, I'd rather have the latter. The TL has the best power, technology, fit-and-finish, safety for the money, or I would have sold out to BMW, or bought a G35 like so many others that probably trash FWD simply because their cars are so boaring in every other regard.
03-04-2004, 11:20 AM
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Originally posted by vtechbrain
Crock alert! FWD vs RWD BS. RSX's smoke M3's on road courses all the time, therefore your statement is false on face value!
Crock alert! FWD vs RWD BS. RSX's smoke M3's on road courses all the time, therefore your statement is false on face value!
On a road course, RWD owns FWD. You obviously have never been on a road course.
The only reason a RSX would even be able to beat a M3, would be the driver. A m3 would slaughter a RSX.
03-04-2004, 11:26 AM
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Originally posted by vtechbrain
Obviously there are better cars out there the M3, S4, M5, S2000, Boxster S 911 and so on and yes they are all RWD or AWD and essentially racing cars, that is patently obvious, my point is that among its direct competition I dont think there are any cars that can beat it in a road course, not the 330 and not the g35, lexus, maxima,saab, volvo, jaguar and so on.
Obviously there are better cars out there the M3, S4, M5, S2000, Boxster S 911 and so on and yes they are all RWD or AWD and essentially racing cars, that is patently obvious, my point is that among its direct competition I dont think there are any cars that can beat it in a road course, not the 330 and not the g35, lexus, maxima,saab, volvo, jaguar and so on.
03-04-2004, 11:26 AM
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Originally posted by vtechbrain
No, it wont. But any loss to a Bimmer owner is the end of the world since they are brainwashed as to the Ultimate Driving Machine BS. The look of bewilderment on their faces when they get whipped is PRICELESS!
No, it wont. But any loss to a Bimmer owner is the end of the world since they are brainwashed as to the Ultimate Driving Machine BS. The look of bewilderment on their faces when they get whipped is PRICELESS!
03-04-2004, 11:36 AM
#55
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Originally posted by Swat Dude
Me personally, I'd rather have more torque steer and less power assist when taking the corner at 70 mph.
Me personally, I'd rather have more torque steer and less power assist when taking the corner at 70 mph.
03-04-2004, 12:54 PM
#56
Originally posted by TL_6SPD
lol, a road course a G35 or Lexus would own the TL. I dare you prove me wrong.
lol, a road course a G35 or Lexus would own the TL. I dare you prove me wrong.
03-04-2004, 01:45 PM
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Road course? Why is everyone talking about road courses? If you want a road course car, don't buy a TL or any sedan. Geez. The TL is awesome but the road course talk is nonsense.
03-04-2004, 01:54 PM
#62
Originally posted by jwaters943
Skeedatl...
If you don't have anything nice to say about the TL, why did you buy one?
Skeedatl...
If you don't have anything nice to say about the TL, why did you buy one?
You should actually bother doing a little research before making such stupid claims. Not that I should have to REPEAT myself, but I was shopping for my commute car...a commute that is 100mi/day. I don't plan on taking it autocrossing. I needed a nice, quiet comfortable car, with passing power and some nice features...and like most people I had a budget I had to stay in.
The TL represented big value to me. As I've ALREADY said had you BOTHERED to actually READ the posts before commenting on them that the TL is a GREAT car but it's not the greatest car.
03-04-2004, 03:58 PM
#65
Originally posted by Skeedatl
It's obvious he didn't read ANY of my posts...why start now?
It's obvious he didn't read ANY of my posts...why start now?
I honestly didn't mean to piss you off. I'm just so sick and tired of people posting here merely to put down the TL. On the flip side, there are others who think the TL is the best car built, so the two extremes seem to balance eachother out.
I think we both agree that the TL isn't a "perfect" car (what car is), but it has many positive atributes.
03-04-2004, 04:27 PM
#66
There is a difference between those who are objective about the shortcomings of the TL and those like mullethead 1LE who just post B.S. to troll.
Obviously I believe the TL has positive qualities or I wouldn't have bought one. I put it this way in one of my posts; if I won a radio contest where I got my choice between a 5-Series and a TL...I'd take the 5-Series 'cause I think it's a better car. However...when it's MY money...I pick the TL 'cause it's a better value (as I don't do anything that would take advantage of the 5-Series better RWD setup). In other words, I think the 5-Series is better, but not $20,000 better. If I lived in "the back woods" where I could often flog my car, really DRIVE it...I would see less value 'cause the FWD wouldn't suit that application as well as better balanced RWD car. I probably would have bought the slower but better balanced C230K, or settled on the exterior styling of the G35 or even a opted for the more expensive 330 or even 525. But I drive crappy SoCal fwy traffic, 50mi each way, my commute is often close to 90 minutes each way in bumper to bumper traffic...so I wanted comfort, quiet ride/interior, reliablity since I put minimally 30K miles a year on cars, XM, softer suspension, passing power for those dopes doing 60MPH in the toll lanes, better fuel economy in a car that style-wise in and out was exciting to me. Given those attributes it was a no brainer...took the TL over other cars in this near-luxury $25K-$40K class.
Obviously I believe the TL has positive qualities or I wouldn't have bought one. I put it this way in one of my posts; if I won a radio contest where I got my choice between a 5-Series and a TL...I'd take the 5-Series 'cause I think it's a better car. However...when it's MY money...I pick the TL 'cause it's a better value (as I don't do anything that would take advantage of the 5-Series better RWD setup). In other words, I think the 5-Series is better, but not $20,000 better. If I lived in "the back woods" where I could often flog my car, really DRIVE it...I would see less value 'cause the FWD wouldn't suit that application as well as better balanced RWD car. I probably would have bought the slower but better balanced C230K, or settled on the exterior styling of the G35 or even a opted for the more expensive 330 or even 525. But I drive crappy SoCal fwy traffic, 50mi each way, my commute is often close to 90 minutes each way in bumper to bumper traffic...so I wanted comfort, quiet ride/interior, reliablity since I put minimally 30K miles a year on cars, XM, softer suspension, passing power for those dopes doing 60MPH in the toll lanes, better fuel economy in a car that style-wise in and out was exciting to me. Given those attributes it was a no brainer...took the TL over other cars in this near-luxury $25K-$40K class.
03-04-2004, 04:34 PM
#67
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Originally posted by Skeedatl
Obviously I believe the TL has positive qualities or I wouldn't have bought one.
Obviously I believe the TL has positive qualities or I wouldn't have bought one.
Well-said. It's very positive vehicles in each category. It has Torque-Steer, but one flaw cannot obscure the splendor of the jade.
03-04-2004, 04:38 PM
#68
I share the SWAT DUDE philosophy of sure it has TS but so what. If I were autocrossing every day I would care...but I don't, so I don't...but when it comes to comparing car to car...just because a particular short coming doesn't apply to me doesn't mean I should ignore it. I have to objectively take that negative into consideration when looking at the big picture.
03-04-2004, 04:48 PM
#69
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I have yet to take delivery of my 6M, but I must share with you my impressions after the test drive which, fortunately, included roads appropriate for moderate performance driving.
In the late 60's I drove a Mini-Cooper S under European "Group 5" rules (about 125 hp and 1,400 lb). Well, you can imagine my surprise when I started pushing the TL a bit: it drove just like mi old Mini (or at least, how I remember it... it has been a long time) - I JUST had to get that car.
I could write a travelogue about my Mini FWD competition experience, but I'd like to point out three things:
1) You can "steer with the throttle" with any car that has enough power to weight ratio and enough tire traction, regardless of the location of the driven wheels (I've done it).
2) Effects of torque on steering (much more pronounced on the unboosted Mini than the TL) can be used to feel the actual torque applied to the tires and how well they'r holding; you just have to drive the car in a high performance environment enough to acquire that feeling.
3) Good tire/road matching is a LOT more delicate on FWDs than RWDs.
4) You can cause the rear end to slide in wet and/or low traction pavement by using the hand brake. (Don't try this unless you have plenty on room on a wet skid pad). All competition minis had the locking button on the brake handle "reversed" (press to LOCK) for that reason.
Though you may find this amusing.
In the late 60's I drove a Mini-Cooper S under European "Group 5" rules (about 125 hp and 1,400 lb). Well, you can imagine my surprise when I started pushing the TL a bit: it drove just like mi old Mini (or at least, how I remember it... it has been a long time) - I JUST had to get that car.
I could write a travelogue about my Mini FWD competition experience, but I'd like to point out three things:
1) You can "steer with the throttle" with any car that has enough power to weight ratio and enough tire traction, regardless of the location of the driven wheels (I've done it).
2) Effects of torque on steering (much more pronounced on the unboosted Mini than the TL) can be used to feel the actual torque applied to the tires and how well they'r holding; you just have to drive the car in a high performance environment enough to acquire that feeling.
3) Good tire/road matching is a LOT more delicate on FWDs than RWDs.
4) You can cause the rear end to slide in wet and/or low traction pavement by using the hand brake. (Don't try this unless you have plenty on room on a wet skid pad). All competition minis had the locking button on the brake handle "reversed" (press to LOCK) for that reason.
Though you may find this amusing.
03-04-2004, 06:34 PM
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Originally posted by TL_6SPD
lol, a road course a G35 or Lexus would own the TL. I dare you prove me wrong.
lol, a road course a G35 or Lexus would own the TL. I dare you prove me wrong.
03-04-2004, 06:37 PM
#71
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I agree with the posts, but especially the original one --
the TL is not as "well balanced" and "well sorted" a performance car as the RWD BMW 3er (or even an Audi A4/S4 for that matter, even though those regularly get bashed in the press for lack of steering feel).
the TL is not as "well balanced" and "well sorted" a performance car as the RWD BMW 3er (or even an Audi A4/S4 for that matter, even though those regularly get bashed in the press for lack of steering feel).
03-04-2004, 06:44 PM
#72
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Originally posted by TL_6SPD
Your brainwashed on the TL. Look in the mirror.
Your brainwashed on the TL. Look in the mirror.
....if I was smoking crack and went to the dealer and bought one...LOL!
03-04-2004, 06:49 PM
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Originally posted by neuronbob
Amen brotha, preach the word! Though I'd rather have neither. The overboosted power steering is probably my only major complaint about this car! It wasn't resolved by increasing tire pressure. Maybe I could have someone adjust the power steering pump? Anyone else thought to do this?
Amen brotha, preach the word! Though I'd rather have neither. The overboosted power steering is probably my only major complaint about this car! It wasn't resolved by increasing tire pressure. Maybe I could have someone adjust the power steering pump? Anyone else thought to do this?
If anyone figures out how to minimize the massive assist at speed and not void the warranty or affect its parking lot agility, let me know.
03-04-2004, 06:56 PM
#75
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Originally posted by Skeedatl
I would have bought one...but the sedan is fugly. The coupe is cool, but I need a 4-door.
I would have bought one...but the sedan is fugly. The coupe is cool, but I need a 4-door.
My comments about buying one while smoking crack were more aimed at antogonizing 6spTL or SilverBullet. Let the whine fest begin....
03-04-2004, 07:35 PM
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My experience too.
Originally posted by Bitium
I totally agree with you. I test drove the car and I punch it a few times.....the car handle great....no torque steer. I can't speak for the automatic, but the 6mt does not have Torque steer plain and simple.
I totally agree with you. I test drove the car and I punch it a few times.....the car handle great....no torque steer. I can't speak for the automatic, but the 6mt does not have Torque steer plain and simple.
03-04-2004, 08:19 PM
#77
Three Wheelin'
Re: Torque Steer-TL's got it. WHO CARES?? long post
Originally posted by Swat Dude
This topic appears so much on this thread it is sickening. Guess what?? The TL has torque steer. I experience it on a regular basis. This morning I shot away from the stoplight with one hand on the wheel (cell phone in the other) and the old torque steer jerked the car hard to the left. Did it catch me off guard? No. Was it a pleasant experience? No.
This topic appears so much on this thread it is sickening. Guess what?? The TL has torque steer. I experience it on a regular basis. This morning I shot away from the stoplight with one hand on the wheel (cell phone in the other) and the old torque steer jerked the car hard to the left. Did it catch me off guard? No. Was it a pleasant experience? No.
Hand-held cell phones and driving don't mix! The TL's bluetooth capabilities are there to help you with this!
Torque steer is a lot more manageable with both hands on the wheel!
Sorry for the soapbox sermon. Please feel free to ignore me and continue this very interesting discussion.
03-04-2004, 08:53 PM
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Kudos to a few of you, especially Skeedatl, for some great posts.
I concur completely with those who believe:
a. TL is a great car (i'm about to buy one)
b. TL exhibits torque steer and would be even better with RWD
(except perhaps for those of you for whom inclement weather traction is an issue. it's not for me in CA)
And I own a BMW m3, so I know there are ways the m3 is better. Overall, I prefer the TL right now for my purposes. My reasons have a lot to do with the interior, high tech features, and price/value.
I concur completely with those who believe:
a. TL is a great car (i'm about to buy one)
b. TL exhibits torque steer and would be even better with RWD
(except perhaps for those of you for whom inclement weather traction is an issue. it's not for me in CA)
And I own a BMW m3, so I know there are ways the m3 is better. Overall, I prefer the TL right now for my purposes. My reasons have a lot to do with the interior, high tech features, and price/value.
03-04-2004, 09:48 PM
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Originally posted by Swat Dude
Dang Dude! It's like frickin' radar for you. Do you just search the site for "G35" so you can start telling them how great and fast your G35 is???? GO AWAY!!!!!
Dang Dude! It's like frickin' radar for you. Do you just search the site for "G35" so you can start telling them how great and fast your G35 is???? GO AWAY!!!!!
03-04-2004, 10:15 PM
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Re: Re: Torque Steer-TL's got it. WHO CARES?? long post
Originally posted by CLGator
This may seem off-topic, and it may seem harsh - I don't mean it that way because I like your post - but damn, dude, DON'T be "shooting away" from stoplights with one hand on your cell phone. Do you really want to find out how well your TL's airbags work? Do you want to try to sleep at night after you accidentally kill someone else?
Hand-held cell phones and driving don't mix! The TL's bluetooth capabilities are there to help you with this!
Torque steer is a lot more manageable with both hands on the wheel!
Sorry for the soapbox sermon. Please feel free to ignore me and continue this very interesting discussion.
This may seem off-topic, and it may seem harsh - I don't mean it that way because I like your post - but damn, dude, DON'T be "shooting away" from stoplights with one hand on your cell phone. Do you really want to find out how well your TL's airbags work? Do you want to try to sleep at night after you accidentally kill someone else?
Hand-held cell phones and driving don't mix! The TL's bluetooth capabilities are there to help you with this!
Torque steer is a lot more manageable with both hands on the wheel!
Sorry for the soapbox sermon. Please feel free to ignore me and continue this very interesting discussion.
....just kidding.
Your point is well taken. I get one cell phone a year from my office and unlimited anytime, all the time, whenever minutes as a perk. So as much as I want a bluetooth phone right now, I will have to wait until July, unless I want to pony up the $$$ myself.