Because I have a 2000 WS6 Trans Am, I have always needed a second car for the midwest winters and a lot of daily driving. I am thinking about replacing my 88 buick this fall with something nicer and more reliable. Some of my friends have the new TLs, and I like them a lot. I was hoping someone could tell me how their winter driving experience has been with the TL. How well does the 6MT do in snow and ice? I assume the summer tire option is not the way to go. I suppose while I am at it, what kind of prices should I expect to pay for the 6MT no nav/no summer tires in the Chicago area.

 

I would not expect to do much serious winter driving with the stock all seasons either. You are better off with a winter tire package. I bought wheel/tire package from tirerack and it was much better than the stock tires.

 

The stock EL42's are fair, at best, in the snow. Now after saying that, I personally have not had any trouble getting arouund in the snow with my 6 speed and the stock tires. You just have to take it a bit easier than you normally would. I've driven through two Colorado winters with them and again, I've not had too much trouble. I do plan on replacing them before the snow flies again next fall, though. Pirelli PZero Nero's appear to be a pretty good all around all-season/fairly good performance tire. And they are not over-priced.
Hope this helps.

 

I'd go with something AWD. We are only getting the TL which doesnt have AWD because we plan on getting a subaru or Magnum within 1.5 years of getting the TL.

 

I drove a 6 speed TL last winter here on the East Coast in snow many times and it was fine if you pay attention to what you are doing and not fussing about with phones, kids, or significant others....

 

AWD doesn't help to give you control, it just helps you to start moving and prevent getting stuck. FWD cars usually handle great in the snow compared to RWD. All other cars in the TLs class are RWD, and you have to pay another few thousand for AWD. Personaly, I would go with a FWD or an AWD car.

Our TL hasn't been through a winter yet, but from what I have heard it handles pretty good in the snow. Plus, the VSA (vehicle stability assist) helps to prevent you from getting stuck.

 

It preforms well in the winter. Going from a 88 buck to a new TL, that's a pretty big upgrade!

 

Welcome to the forum


If you search forums, you may find lots of people saying how good TL was in the past two winter seasons and some people saying how bad their TLs were. So far, as I know, majority of 3GTL'rs have experienced the good driving over snowy conditions, and this TL will perform better and safer if you get some decent all-seasons tires or snow tires. The selective tire would be the key. And, I also find out my car is handling pretty good on EL42s or 512s.

 

whatever happened to the people in the 1970s who only had rear wheel drive in the cold Minnesota winter? You'll be fine with stock TL tires for the winter.

(WS6 is a great car! I assume 6MT? if you have AT, i'd call you a pussy)

good luck

 

sorry but the tires make the TL suck in the snow. Do not expect 45 series tires (all season or not) to perform that well.. They do not... My 2G model with 50 series was not all that good either...

 

I haven't had any problems for the last 2 winters and we get lots of snow and ice. Performance was fine and I have the stock tires.

 

My 6MT did great and we had a bunch of snow, but I used Dunlop M3 Wintersport tires. I did not have to slow down for bad weather, only for the folks in my way sliding around on their "all season" tires. The M3 tires look as they will easily go 4 winters and seem to be much better quality than the EL42's.

 

My TL has gone through two winters. The first was with the stock EL-42 tires, which were brand-new at the time and so traction was pretty good. The second was with Falken ZIEX 512 tires, which handled better.

With good all-season tires, good driving habits, and the traction control, you will get by just fine. Snow tires are better but I didn't want to spend the money and I don't drive aggressively in bad weather anyway.

 

I have driven a 98 Camaro SS 6mt in Chicago winters and never got stuck, maybe once. I usually added 2 70 lb bags of sand and started off in 2nd gear on some bad days.

I have a 05 TL 6MT daily driver that got stock once pretty bad, but our streets were unplowed after 6-8 inches of snow. I got kind of pigheaded, I could have taken the train. All in all, I never had commuting problems, but the road was so bad that day that I bet 50% of the folks out there had problems.

Car is great in Chicago in winter, but if we get deep snow the car will have problems on unplowed streets.

I have also driven our TL from Chicago to Grand Haven MI in white-out conditions. Car was fair in that weather, I was going slower than other cars maybe because I am paranoid.

 

Roger that! My wifes BMW has the Dunlop M3s and my TL has the MIchelin Graspic snows in 215x50 they work great here in CT and we had a bitch of a winter. AND I live in the Litchfield hills (small mountains). You WILL not get by here with all season tires, trust me. On flat roads perhaps but NOT in the hills. Anyone living in the snow belt is nuts not to put on snow tires. For stopping and going! I preach snow tires to all the goofballs who are sliding around in front of me during the winter because they are too lazy/stubborn/cheap to to the right thing!!!

 

Made it through the past winter fine with the stock Michelins. Will be changing the tires this fall to something with a little more grip. The stock Michelins don't have enough grip on wet surface (no snow).

 

AWD helps when you live on the bottem of a dead end hill . In addition it does help control if its electrically controlled. Its like the EBD, except it gives power to the outside wheels in addition to breaking inside wheels to correct understeer. Also with a 60/40 split of power you have less torques steer. You also can get better launces.

 

Yah, right, some 3GTL'rs got problem to drive uphills over snow-covered conditions.

 

I agree, I drove my 6MT through last year's semi-mild winter in MD and it was no problem. The EL42's are OK but not great in the snow.

 

Agreed, the stock tires are fair in snow, our TL is worse in snow than our 95 Civic. I plan to go to a better tire.

 

I guess the narrow tires on that 95 C could be the factor. Also, the "low-profile" of TL is part of the factors (bad in snow), too.

 

I agree. AWD cars like Subaru puts emphasis on safety, etc.. of their AWD cars in their marketing. They make it sound like every other car out there is gonna go out of control in the winter and their's won't. I have friends who own AWD vehicles and they do provide better pickup on snow and ice but they don't handle that much better than FWD. I think to some, it creates a false sense of control (that's why a lot of AWDs/ SUVs are on the ditch during a bad snowstorm). IMO nothing beats good driving and common sense (and a good set of winter tires).

VSA I think just prevents you from getting into a spin if it sense that one wheel is slipping. I myself think that VSA does not even engage if your foot is not on the gas or brake pedal. If your car is coasting and starts to slip, then I don't think VSA can help you. And in certain situations, it may even be a good idea to turn off the VSA with a 6M just to get you moving.

Comparing the TL with the Civic, the Civic has less weight and also less torque which is what you want to get out of deep snow and slush. I've had situations where Civics and Corollas were easily getting uphill while my TL's front wheels start to slip. Narrower tires on the snow do work. The wider the tire, the more snow it has to push out of the way.

 

I don't care too much. We have lived on this hill for 12 years, with only FWD, and either way we are getting a Magnum RT-AWD or outback(I prefer the magnum).

 

I live in NY on Long Island and we have had a decent amt of snow these past 2 winters... the TL did NOT have a problem at all in even unplowed 8-10 inches....

I have driven all over the hills of the north shore... and not one problem.... granted the stock EL42s arent the best tires but the car's amazing fwd and VSA made up for them. I would bet that the midwest gets worse snow than in NY... but the idiots here dont prepare well for it.

To those who HAVE had issues in the snow... try 3 things.. 1) use 2nd gear start in manual mode to reduce the torque getting to the wheels 2) keep moving! once u start, dont stop! (if the situation allows, obviously) 3) try turning off the VSA if ur in really deep snow and "feather" the throttle ... put the car in manual mode and start out in 2nd gear and shift as soon as possible to the next gears you will be reducing the torque and wheel spin

the VSA on the TL is amazing it has never let me down... in the rain on entrance and exit ramps and in the snow.... it honestly keeps the car on the intended course. unless you REALLY are driving like an idiot it will correct almost anything.

seriously, i'm not insulting anyone out there who HAS had trouble driving in the snow... i recommend taking a course at a Winter Driving school... they will teach u how to handle even the worse conditions. people have been driving in Europe without traction control for decades and they get FEET of snow. and they do it with RWD cars. keep that in mind.

ciao

 

my parents are great winter drivers, but here in NE, the snows a bitch, but they can usually get out. To give you an idea we pull out to the west from the house highlitghted in yellow. the entire thing is a hill, and our drive way is a slight decline, so if we dont slide onto the snow bank on the other side of the road, we are usally okey. otherwise we have to go all the way down ireland and floor it. we still havnt purchased the tl mind you, so i cant say from experience with that. By the way south is all up hill, and so is east.

 

Btw, crazymjb, pic is cool, and it takes me a while to figure out the directions and those inclines inside that pic. Well, still good.

 

Thanks. Its provided by my city, the overhead pics. I am guessing within 20 years they will have a 3-d version. Sorry for the congufusion. I wasnt paying too much attention while typing that. But basically one pulls out to the left. And if its icy, the cars we have will slide conveniently straight upon leaving and get hung up on a snow bank. If its really slipper we go to the bottem of Ireland, or to the left. The bottem is flat so we floor it to get up the hill, then we turn and continue on our way. Basically in that pic 3:00 to 9:00 is inclined. so all the streets except the left half of ireland.our driveway is also a slight decline. Hope this helped.

 

to those who live in REALLY snowy areas... Blizzaks, Blizzaks, Blizzaks, Blizzaks! if it's THAT snowy and hilly that u have to worry, u should be purchasing snow tires for WHATEVER car u choose, AWD or not - (esp if the awd vehicle has summer tires instead of all seasons)

 

Jesus!!! This guy goes up in a plane to take a pic of his house to better explain his situation!! Now that's what I call "making yer point!"

 

If I lived in Western MI, with that lake effect snow, I would run snow tires in the winter.

In Chicago, we just get those days where the it snows 4-5 inches in one day, and driving can get tricky. In the city of Chicago, the plowing is excellent, but they typically blow off the side streets for a day or more... Then the snow becomes rutted and any car can get stuck.

 

hell it all comes from what you are used to driving, tires you have on the car, and how worn the tires are. That and the snowfall and areas you drive.

The 50s on my 2g were marginal at best. The 45s on the 05 are worse. Not just from the aspect ratio but from how well that particular tread design and compound is in the snow. EL42 are bad in the snow period. Better than bald tires for sure.

 

Just wanted to thank everyone for all the replies. Nice to see such a response on this forum. Yes it would be quite a nice upgrade...thats why I am still wondering if I should do it. It is really nice to not have a car payment! I am from Chicago, but currently live in Iowa for my job. I tend to drive home a lot, and thats why I would like something more reliable and decent in snow. The WS6 is a 6MT and its my baby. It never sees snow...partially because I don't want it to rust out, and mainly cause I don't want to die! I am going to be doing some test driving this summer, and the TL is at the top of my list. I also plan to try a Legacy GT, Altima 3.5, and Mazda 6. Once again thanks for the advice.

 

Do you work for Bridgestone? Why not Alpins, Alpins, Alpins?

 

lol no i dont work for bridgestone... but the blizzaks have been a fav of tirerack and motortrend for years... and my friends have had to use them on their 740's and their S430s just to move in the winter... like i said b4... driving on long island and even upstate ny in a blizzard come to think of it... MY 04 tl didnt even hesitate once... but i did go thru winter driving school and did live upstate for 4 yrs of college... so snow wasnt a scarey thing for me.

 

No, I jumped my acura and had friends take pics. That is actually a service provided by my town. If you click on the house you get all the info, so I purposly used a screen shot. Although I hope to take flying lessons at some point

 

My '05 TL handles amazingly well on the icy roads here in Maryland. I drove into work one morning on icy roads and saw dozens of cars stuck in ditches. The roads had some serious glaze. The TL's traction control took over and carried me over icy spots like I was airborne...smooth as silk. Fortunately, the really icy parts were on straight aways so I didn't have to test the traction control on a sharp corner. But I must say it's a very strange feeling when your traction control is kicking-in every five or ten seconds.

 

I have the PZero Nero M&S tyres and the TL does fine on them in the sort of winter we have here in the DC area, and it also did fine on packed snow in Canada this past winter. It did NOT deal so well when we got dumped on with 25 cm of snow the second day there; the tyres spun easily in the outdoor car park at the condo where we were staying. If you're regularly going to be driving in that sort of weather, then you're probably already in a position where you use snow tyres and the TL would be no different from any other car in that respect.

 

OK boys! 72 degrees in CT today. Time to put this puppy to rest!!!!!!