I'm returning a modified 225 Audi TT 6/1 and my 2 current choices are the TL and the S60R. I am increasing in car size only b/c of my 2 small kids which I will be driving around quite frequently now. Has anyone here compared and driven both cars and what were your impressions overall. I don't know if the S60R is worth the extra 6-7K. Thanks Doug Go Isles!

 

I have a strong bias against Volvo due to poor product quality issues and feel that the Acura is just built better. The styling on the Volvo I must admit is attractive. Here's a link to a prior discussion on this issue. I realize this comment doesn't really help your decision-making, but I just wanted a premise to exclaim Go Isles too!

Maybe if Eric Cairns can stick to checking and fighting for his 5 minutes of ice time, maybe thay'll have a chance. By the way, don't you just love Steve Webb?

 

Another prior link of this issue.

 

i thought the volvo was a mundane looking car at first but i saw one at the autoshow that was slammed with HRE rims on it, that thing looks sweet. as far as justifying the extra 6-7K its gonna be subjective. the volvo is probably a little faster than the TL becuase of the extra power. its definitely a more "desired" car because its the "R" version of the car. not that i think more people want it. like BMW M's and AMG cars its rare and might hold its value better. the interior i would say the TL wins because it offers alot more goodies tech wise. You would really have to test drive both and make the decision based on that. i would get the TL and use the extra cash for the kids college savings.

 

for Cairns tonight. Not worth fighting against Tampa Bay! Thanks

 

Is it just me or do the swedes have a problem with ergonomics? I hate Saabs. I get really confused with the control layouts. Volvos are better but still not as ergonomic as the Japanese cars.

 

The "R" is a great car, but if you are looking for increased rearseat room because of your kids, the TL has more space. Then again, the "R" has fold-down rear seats plus a bigger trunk if you need the storage space. (I really like the feature on the "R" that lets you push a butten to drop the rear headrests for better visibility). Test drive them both multiple times and see which dealer will give you the better deal.

 

I am also torn between the TL and the S60R. I think this is a win win situation though.

I am currently in the market because my 2003 CL Type-S 6MT w/navi was totaled by a negligent driver. I had many of the same problems with it as the other people have had with their 2004 TLs. This has been disconcerting to me because I was strongly considering another vehicle due to these little problems: rattles here... rattles there... just enough to buzz in your ear. Seat memory problems, transmission problems, consistantly warping rotors. It was quickly becoming a car I did not want to keep a year and a half in.

I can say this - head on collision at approx 35mph+/- each just off the drivers side to the passenger side. I sustained only a minor chest injury, probably associated with the seat belt or the air bad hitting my chest. Had this been any other car i have owned, i feel strongly i would have been injured badly. The flip side to this is that the car folded slightly in the middle. The passenger door ended up bowed out approximately 12-14" in the middle. There was a crease through the sheet metal of the roof. I have never seen a car bend in half like that.

I have never owned a volvo but it is my understanding that Volvo's have a very strong frame/subframe (not sure if it is all one peice). It would be nice to see the results of the same accident with a volvo.

The good:

The TL has a lot of nice electronic features. I really think that this nav unit is the best around, certainly for OE. With the Nav on the TL you get blue tooth phone connectivity - very nice especially if you have energetic kids. The TL is a few k cheaper. If your looking for an automatic this one is much closer performance wise to the 6MT than the volvo. The TL engine is very smooth and it gets better gas milage by approx 5mpg in both city and highway. The TL allows for dual zone and dual mode climate control. The console between the seats is well designed/layed out. The side mirrors can go down in reverse. LED brake lights.

The S60R is hands down the most comfortable car I have ever sat in. The leather feel superior to acura's. The S60R doors close with a solid thud, and in combination with the solid feeling this car gives on the road, implies a very better made car. There is an option to have "fold away" booster seats for the two rear seats so that kids can see out the windows. There are climate vents at chest level on the B pillars for the rear passengers. The rear seats are 60/40 fold down which opens the car up to actually being usefull for moving larger items. The S60R comes with 3yrs/36k scheduled maintenance included. The S60R can pass as the family volvo whenever it may be necessary but looks pretty mean (especially with the 18" pegasus wheels) when you start noticing the subtlties. Speaking of mean... this car is fast. I thought the TL was fast enough for me. On multiple test drives the TL brings smiles to my face; but with that turbo the S60R goes beyond, and if you crave more power a simple ecu flash/replacement can bump you up to 345 HP. And the metalicy blue gauges just look damn good. Not bad for the family truckster.

The bad:

Based on this forum the TL shares many of the little finish problems I experienced with my 03 CL. The transmission is still experiencing problems. The TL feels like a cheaper car after driving the S60R. The dash to me is oriented a younger audience where a classier dash fits the interior. The leather feels cheaper than in the volvo.

The volvo nav unit was no where near as user friendly or as smart. A 2003 volvo nav unit could not find my house (built in 1999), my parents house (built in 1965) or my office (a major military office building). The rear seat room feels smaller if it is not. This car costs more $$$ the way your gonna want it configured.

I can't decide myself but I am currently leaning toward the S60R for build quality and it is just different.

I would be curious to know your thoughts on the matter...

 

Just test drove the S60R yesterday. I don't feel it's worth the money or the effort. It was not as responsive for a 300hp multi-stage suspension car as I expected. When you really dig in, you feel as if you're pushing the car too hard. The controls were not as friendly either. Made you have to think of what you're doing... turning air on or heating butt up. The ride was comfortable (in comfort setting), but the handling was not as intuitive as the 1.8T, STI, or EVO in Sport or Advanced setting.

I think the car has real potential, but not at its current stage. However, with the body kit and Titanium wheels, it is a very slick looking ride.

My $0.02.


Next up for the Test Drive... 2004 VW R32 and the new Chrysuckler 300C.

 

I will try to make it there next week sometime. I felt like I didn't have enough headroom in the Volvo. Also with the seat all the way down and the steering wheel all the way down the way I like it, the steering wheel hit my thighs and I am no way a big guy 5'11" 170lbs is quite avg. I have way more room in my TT coupe. The S60R is a solid car and I do like the idea of doing a garrect chip which is what I have in my TT to push the HP and torque #s. My TT is running 296Hp and 276 torque with a GIAC chip. The Volvo is slower only until the turbo kicks in and the it feels almost the same as my TT. The sport suspension was just as responsive and stiff as my TTs which is lowered an inch and change. I do like the AWD and suspension options. I am scepticle of their reliability and service. Scheduled maintenance is nice too which I had with the TT.

I got a quote from Volvo for 36/36 $0 down tax included in the payments of $489.

Acura today quoted me $475 for the same terms.
Much more car for $14more/month IMO. What is everyone paying for the TL?

 

Volvos Suck in reliability and after you DRIVE the 6oR you will recognize the TL has superior drivability and overall performance. NO question TL is a much better buy.

 

I had a TL-S and an MDX and now have a V70R. Comments on some of the opinions proffered above:

1) Interior room - the Volvo's smaller and the back seat can be cramped for taller passengers.

2) Interior comfort - exceptional.

3) Interior design - materials are way above Acura. There's no vinyl used anywhere. Every surface is leather, even the insides of the armrests. The design is Scandinavian modern which you're either in to or you're not.

4) Performance - outstanding. Whoever posted it didn't feel like 300HP must have driven the automatic or didn't know how to drive. My wagon pulls 5.6 seconds 0-60 on a GTech.

5) Reliability - I've had the car since June of last year and had one delivery problem and that's it. Overall, based on swedespeed.com posts, the problems have been few and minor.

6) Navi - the database is updated twice a year and you can purchase the updates directly from NavTech. NavTech also supplies data to Honda/Acura so there's no reason a location would be in one system and not the other. The joystick on the steering wheel takes some getting used to but I like it better now because I can use the navi while driving without taking my eyes off the road. It does have fewer facilities in the database than Acura's.

Volvo doesn't have a slush box that can handle the torque so they detune the engine when you order the automatic. Caveat emptor. This is my first Volvo so I’m not a Volvo zealot. It’s a lot of car for the money and it’s very unique. The S60R has a $1K incentive on it if you finance through Volvo and a $4.5K incentive if you lease through a third party. The residuals are pretty decent so, if you lease, the payments with the third party incentive should be about the same as the TL. There’s no incentives on the V70R because they’re in shorter supply.

 

I can't get past the torque steer in the TL no matter how much I really like every thing else about the car. I really want to get past the torque steer and may go for another ride and drive the car less aggressive and see how I feel. I really liked the way the S60R drove felt like it had much better acceleration than the TL and I liked the turbo rush. I really love the concept of AWD especially for NJ with its snow. I just can't stand the black plastic dash and the smaller screen navi in the S60R, plus the color selection is poor especially the interior which is either blue/black (hideous) or Gobi (tan). Plus no XM so I have to get a separate unit if I want XM which I do. Plus if you think the TL has problems check out Swedespeed forums-they have brake squeeles, clunking suspension, a lot of different software versions and a ton of quirky type problems. So if I decide to get the S 60R, it will be a 05. Hey Acura make a 6 spd AWD in the TL and it will be a no brainer or give me the same amount of torque steer in the 6 spd as I felt in the auto, thats livable. I really want to buy your product.

 

I post on swedespeed a lot. The problem is that there's only about 20 regular posters, some incredibly vocal. If five have a problem, and post about it constantly, it makes it look like the car's falling apart when you scan the forum. Let's face it, until the R's, Volvo's were practically invisible. If you don't go with the Volvo, that's cool - just do it for the right reasons.

If you're the same guy who posted on swedespeed as "S60RmayB" than you saw this post from a TL'r who went the other way:

To each their own I guess...

 

I considered the Volvo's until I learned it was built by Ford.
My friend told me volvo quality has gone down since they got bought out,
so he bought an E500 for his wife.

 

Spoke to Volvo yesterday again, the best quote I got for 36/36 with different finance companies besides Volvo was $517 including tax. I am waiting today if someone from other Acura dealers can beat the original $475 for the same terms. I will drive the TL next week. Doug

 

Honestly at this point I think it's subjective. I considered a 2004 M3, S4 and the TL. The TL won on cost and features.

$517 is a great deal - for that I'd go with the Volvo.

Only warning is the Volvo manual transmission - every review (US and European) I've read hasn't liked the "space-ball" or whatever it's called on the R. Apparently the auto is a better choice.

-josh

 

but it wouldn't make me by an auto. I have to drive both cars again and decide on my price range.

 

Space Ball is just what they call the aluminum boot, the transmission is a new six-speed introduced with the R's. The tranny's great - smooth, short shifts, well geared. It's also been reviewed well so I don't know what your source is. The clutch is not as linear as I'd like and definately takes some getting used to. The manual R's are not cars you jump in to the first time and drive smoothly. The Geartronic sucks. It was never designed to handle the torque and HP put out by the engine so the ECU retards power to protect the transmission. 0-60 in the GT is a full two-seconds slower than the six-speed. If I needed an automatic, I wouldn't have gotten an R.

 

and I believe you are a graphic designer as indicated in one of your posts I believe. Reading that forum I got kindo of nervous about gettng a S60R and yes the TL has its problems but I got the impression that the TL problems were more of the annoying type as opposed to major problems like clunking or the suspension settings of comfort, sport, and advanced not being what they were advertised as and requiring software updates-S2 or S3 as JRL talks about. What do you think of the S60R and have you ever driven a TL 6 spd? if so what do you think of the FWD torque steer.

 

The S60R shift knob is very much like a softball... It would be the first thing to go, but I found the transmission/clutch to be very well done. Not quite as light/crisp as the TL but felt more solid.

 

I came within minutes of getting an S60R on European Delivery so I could pick it up in Sweden at a reduced price and run it around a track a few times. I ultimately decided to go with the TL because people told me Volvos had quality problems and Honda/Acura gets great reviews for quality.

I don't really regret my decision, the TL is a great car, but I've had the 2004 TL in the shop for some problem every month since I bought it (November 2003). That's exactly the kind of hassle I was trying to avoid by not getting the Volvo.

I also have a 1999 Buick Regal thats only gone in the shop 2 times in the 5 years I've owned it for something other than scheduled maintenance. So, I guess you can't really predict if you're going to have problems with a particular car just by who makes it. My advice is get the car that you feel more comfortable in and don't worry about if you're getting a better deal (obviously try and get a good deal) or if the car might have quality issues (because you never can tell).

 

I've ordered my TL and I'm trading my 2002 S60 T5. My experience can be summarized easily. The S60 drives great. The audio quality is incredible. The seats rock (as was mentioned earlier). The rest is, well, crap. The mirrors malfunctioned. The glove box was installed crooked and rattled. Front end alignment was never straight. Brake dust was like a weekly dose of black spray paint. I could go on and on, but you get the idea.

I guess I was tired of "living with" a new annoyance every month or so.

Even if my TL has some of the often mentioned problems, I still think it will be a better car than the S60. That's not even considering the money you'll save.

I do want to add one tidbit about Ford and Volvo. Ford bought Volvo in 1999, after the S60 was designed and about to begin production. Ford had nothing to do with these cars. However, they are coming out with a new Mercury built on the Volvo platform (yikes!). Ford has owned Jaguar, Aston Martin, and Land Rover for a long time and haven't managed to bring them down too much.