TL vs. Chrysler 300C: Round 2
04-06-2004, 06:08 PM
#361
Drifting
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Portsmouth, RI
Posts: 2,372
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Skeedatl
Yep, you can run higher compression with aluminum compared to iron.
Your original claim was that aluminum heads (strictly due to material: iron vs.aluminum) permitted "VASTLY HIGHER" compression ratios.
04-06-2004, 06:10 PM
#363
Originally Posted by harddrivin1le
Define "VASTLY"
04-06-2004, 06:17 PM
#371
I parked my car and blew the intake off of it because of the immense pressure of the Bernoulli effect. The air stopped flowing and I dunno...the pressure must have gone up way too much for the intake to handle. How does this TB go back on? :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:
04-06-2004, 06:40 PM
#373
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Tracy, CA
Age: 51
Posts: 7,698
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by TLover
OK, this is really my last post on the topic. Isn't there's a fundamental scientific flaw with these "ram air" motorcycle experiments? There's no friggin' control group. They test "ram air" bikes only. They test static "ram air" bikes, then moving "ram air" bikes. Now, I'm not sure since I don't know motorcycles at all, but do static non "ram air" bikes and moving non "ram air" yield the same results? Don't we need to know something about non "ram air" bikes in order to draw any conclusions, regardless of any mathematical formulas or principles of physics?
04-06-2004, 06:43 PM
#374
Drifting
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Portsmouth, RI
Posts: 2,372
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by TLover
The only conclusion one can draw from the articles you posted is that a moving motorcycle has more power than a static one.
04-06-2004, 06:47 PM
#375
Drifting
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Portsmouth, RI
Posts: 2,372
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Skeedatl
Up to 3CR points. And I've already given examples of them. But then you complained about them not being Otto cycle engines. So I showed you some others. You whined that they were bikes. Then you wanted them only on SBC, V6 Buick and other iron ancients. You're a joke.
That is the only way to validate your claim.
Comparing a Miller cycle engine with aluminum heads to an Otto cycle engine with iron heads means NOTHING.
04-06-2004, 06:49 PM
#376
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Tracy, CA
Age: 51
Posts: 7,698
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by harddrivin1le
That's the only conclusion that YOU can draw. :lol2:
04-06-2004, 06:52 PM
#377
Drifting
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Portsmouth, RI
Posts: 2,372
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by TLover
Do you understand what I'm asking? Do you even know what a control group is?
Do you understand that your TL is an Accord with more problems and more weight?
04-06-2004, 06:55 PM
#378
Originally Posted by harddrivin1le
I wanted ALL OTHER VARIABLES to the the same (including fuel octane) EXCEPT for the head material and the compression ratios.
That is the only way to validate your claim.
Comparing a Miller cycle engine with aluminum heads to an Otto cycle engine with iron heads means NOTHING.
That is the only way to validate your claim.
Comparing a Miller cycle engine with aluminum heads to an Otto cycle engine with iron heads means NOTHING.
04-06-2004, 06:57 PM
#379
Originally Posted by harddrivin1le
The control group consisted of THE SAME BIKES withOUT the ram air effect (on the dynos). Those articles make that pretty clear.
Do you understand that your TL is an Accord with more problems and more weight?
Do you understand that your TL is an Accord with more problems and more weight?
You're just pissed 'cause you can't afford a TL. :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:
04-06-2004, 06:59 PM
#380
Drifting
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Portsmouth, RI
Posts: 2,372
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Skeedatl
:lol1: Yeah right...there is no identical iron and aluminum head dumbass. If course if you were little more than a toilet racer you would already know that.
In that scenario, we're talking a ~ 0.5:1 delta in static compression (and a 0 delta in dynamic compression).
If your claim had ANY basis in reality then we'd see LOADS of engines that were SIMILAR to GMs 3.8 liter V6 (Otto cycle, 9.4:1 with 2 valve iron heads on 87 octane) running ~ 12.4:1 with aluminum heads and 87 octane.
Show me such an engine.
04-06-2004, 07:02 PM
#381
No...that is what a dumbass would do. Build a motor with higher compression than necessary. You are a dumbass, you go build it.
GM doesn't build useless sh!t. They don't bother with a 12.4:1 motor like Toyota and Yamaha's run just as they no longer bother building the useless sh!tbox Slomero HA HA HA HA. Just because they no longer build the sh!tbox Slomero doesn't mean they couldn't continue building the sh!tbox Slomero.
I've already given you examples showing it's possible and the results of mathematical models which you concurred with. So eat a bowl jerkoff. You are wrong YET AGAIN. Surprise Surprise ROTFLMAO. :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:
What other criteria do you want? Planets aligned? Tides high? LOL. I've already shown you motors that do what you claim is IMPOSSIBLE :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:
GM doesn't build useless sh!t. They don't bother with a 12.4:1 motor like Toyota and Yamaha's run just as they no longer bother building the useless sh!tbox Slomero HA HA HA HA. Just because they no longer build the sh!tbox Slomero doesn't mean they couldn't continue building the sh!tbox Slomero.
I've already given you examples showing it's possible and the results of mathematical models which you concurred with. So eat a bowl jerkoff. You are wrong YET AGAIN. Surprise Surprise ROTFLMAO. :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:
What other criteria do you want? Planets aligned? Tides high? LOL. I've already shown you motors that do what you claim is IMPOSSIBLE :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:
04-06-2004, 07:04 PM
#382
Drifting
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Portsmouth, RI
Posts: 2,372
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Skeedatl
No...that is what a dumbass would do. Build a motor with higher compression than necessary. You are a dumbass, you go build it.
GM doesn't build useless sh!t. They don't bother with a 12.4:1 motor like Toyota and Yamaha's run just as they no longer bother building the useless sh!tbox Slomero HA HA HA HA.
I've already given you examples showing it's possible and the results of mathematical models which you concurred with. So eat a bowl jerkoff. You are wrong YET AGAIN. Surprise Surprise ROTFLMAO.
GM doesn't build useless sh!t. They don't bother with a 12.4:1 motor like Toyota and Yamaha's run just as they no longer bother building the useless sh!tbox Slomero HA HA HA HA.
I've already given you examples showing it's possible and the results of mathematical models which you concurred with. So eat a bowl jerkoff. You are wrong YET AGAIN. Surprise Surprise ROTFLMAO.
And we'd certianly see HOT-RODDERS and aftermarket performance crate engine manufacturers running the big CRs that you claim are possible with aluminum heads.
04-06-2004, 07:06 PM
#383
:lol1: :lol1: :lol1: Excuses excuses. Now an 1100 CC bike isn't big enough for ya.
What else...does the block have to be painted red?
I've already shown you motors that do what you claim as IMPOSSIBLE. :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:
So here come more excuses I'm sure.
What else...does the block have to be painted red?
I've already shown you motors that do what you claim as IMPOSSIBLE. :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:
So here come more excuses I'm sure.
04-06-2004, 07:08 PM
#384
Drifting
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Portsmouth, RI
Posts: 2,372
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Skeedatl
Excuses excuses. Now an 1100 CC bike isn't big enough for ya.
What else...does the block have to be painted red?
What else...does the block have to be painted red?
That's TINY by automotive standards.
Extremely high RPMS permit higher static compression ratios as well....
Bike engines aren't car engines.
Show me a small block Chevy running 11:1 or better on 87 octane gas.
04-06-2004, 07:10 PM
#385
First they couldn't run more compression. Then it had to be on 87. Then it had to be otto cycle...then it couldn't be motorcycle. Then you wanted only SBC and 3.8 Buicks LOL.
Now you want identical aluminum and iron heads LOL!
Now you want identical aluminum and iron heads LOL!
04-06-2004, 07:11 PM
#387
Originally Posted by harddrivin1le
1100 cc/4 cylinders = 275 cc
That's TINY by automotive standards.
Extremely high RPMS permit higher static compression ratios as well....
Bike engines aren't car engines.
Show me a small block Chevy running 11:1 or better on 87 octane gas.
That's TINY by automotive standards.
Extremely high RPMS permit higher static compression ratios as well....
Bike engines aren't car engines.
Show me a small block Chevy running 11:1 or better on 87 octane gas.
You are a retard.
You asked for motors I gave them to you.
You asked for otto cycle.
I gave them to you.
Now you want SBC with a rev limiter.
Then you'll want something else...then something else...then something else.
You are so full of sh!t your eyes are brown.
04-06-2004, 07:12 PM
#388
Drifting
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Portsmouth, RI
Posts: 2,372
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Skeedatl
First they couldn't run more compression. Then it had to be on 87. Then it had to be otto cycle...then it couldn't be motorcycle. Then you wanted only SBC and 3.8 Buicks LOL.
Now you want identical aluminum and iron heads LOL!
Now you want identical aluminum and iron heads LOL!
Show me one that's running a CR that is "vastly higher" than the 9.4:1 GM is running on their 2 valve/iron head 3.8 liter V6 (with 87 octane).
04-06-2004, 07:14 PM
#389
Drifting
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Portsmouth, RI
Posts: 2,372
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Skeedatl
Now you want a SBC. LOL. A particular color dumbass? How about a particular carb, or can it be EFI?
You are a retard.
You asked for motors I gave them to you.
You asked for otto cycle.
I gave them to you.
Now you want SBC with a rev limiter.
Then you'll want something else...then something else...then something else.
You are so full of sh!t your eyes are brown.
You are a retard.
You asked for motors I gave them to you.
You asked for otto cycle.
I gave them to you.
Now you want SBC with a rev limiter.
Then you'll want something else...then something else...then something else.
You are so full of sh!t your eyes are brown.
As many variables as possible must be eliminated in any valid comparison in order to properly evaluate the single variable that is being studied.
In this case it's aluminum versus iron heads.
04-06-2004, 07:15 PM
#391
Originally Posted by harddrivin1le
I thought you were the person who was big in pointing out "flaws."
As many variables as possible must be eliminated in any valid comparison in order to properly evaluate the single variable that is being studied.
In this case it's aluminum versus iron heads.
As many variables as possible must be eliminated in any valid comparison in order to properly evaluate the single variable that is being studied.
In this case it's aluminum versus iron heads.
You are the flaw and you have been pointed out.
04-06-2004, 07:15 PM
#392
Drifting
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Portsmouth, RI
Posts: 2,372
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Skeedatl
No, I've shown you plenty of examples. Show me a Acura running 9.4:1 with iron heads.
Oh, they don't exist? So by your genius they can't exist.
Stupid ass.
Oh, they don't exist? So by your genius they can't exist.
Stupid ass.
On the other hand, there are MILLIONS of Chevy Small Blocks using either iron heads OR aluminum heads.
So let's use that as the baseline example.
Show me a reasonably streetable example that's running "vastly higher compression" due to its aluminum heads.
04-06-2004, 07:17 PM
#393
Show me that you can't run higher compression with aluminum than iron. You're the one making the claim than you can't run 12.4:1 with a SBC on pump gas...PROVE IT.
PROVE that you can't run 12.4:1 with an Al head on pump gas. I've shown you motors than can. Prove that a SBC can't.
PROVE that you can't run 12.4:1 with an Al head on pump gas. I've shown you motors than can. Prove that a SBC can't.
04-06-2004, 07:19 PM
#394
Drifting
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Portsmouth, RI
Posts: 2,372
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Skeedatl
Show me that you can't run higher compression with aluminum than iron. You're the one making the claim than you can't run 12.4:1 with a SBC on pump gas...PROVE IT.
PROVE that you can't run 12.4:1 with an iron head on pump gas. I've shown you motors than can. Prove that a SBC can't.
PROVE that you can't run 12.4:1 with an iron head on pump gas. I've shown you motors than can. Prove that a SBC can't.
If you could run 12.4:1 with iron heads on pump gas in an SBC then someone would be doing it...
In fact, that would be THE STANDARD in terms of performance build-ups and crate engines because it would essentially be "free power."
04-06-2004, 07:19 PM
#395
Originally Posted by harddrivin1le
Because they don't build them.
On the other hand, there are MILLIONS of Chevy Small Blocks using either iron heads OR aluminum heads.
So let's use that as the baseline example.
Show me a reasonably streetable example that's running "vastly higher compression" due to its aluminum heads.
On the other hand, there are MILLIONS of Chevy Small Blocks using either iron heads OR aluminum heads.
So let's use that as the baseline example.
Show me a reasonably streetable example that's running "vastly higher compression" due to its aluminum heads.
04-06-2004, 07:20 PM
#396
Originally Posted by harddrivin1le
:clown:
:lol1: Oh surprise surprise. I guess I'll be waiting for this proof for as long as those formula evaluations.
Certainly in your assclown handbook there in a formula proving you correct. So long as you can keep the variables straight of course.
04-06-2004, 07:21 PM
#397
Drifting
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Portsmouth, RI
Posts: 2,372
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Skeedatl
I've already shown you STREET examples. YOU'RE the one claiming that a SBC with Al heads can't run 12.4:1 on pump gas. Now PROVE IT.
If they could then we'd be seeing LOADS of examples in terms of crate motors, performance builds, etc.
04-06-2004, 07:21 PM
#398
Come on already...you've been argueing this for weeks now.
Certainly you can prove that an Al headed SBC can't run 12.4:1 on pump gas.
I've shown you plenty of motors from other mfgs that can. Prove to me that GM can't.
Certainly you can prove that an Al headed SBC can't run 12.4:1 on pump gas.
I've shown you plenty of motors from other mfgs that can. Prove to me that GM can't.