23109VC

okay, last night I went out and test drove another Type S. this one was an 07 with 35k miles. honestly, i didn't like it that much, but I think it may have been this particular car. the alignmente was off, and it didn't feel as fast as it shoudl be - i suspect it n eeds a tune up badly or something... i test drove it, then immeidately test drove an 06 base w/nav and the 06 felt as fast or faster than the type S. ?? weird..

so at the dealer, they also had a C300 sport that they took in trade. they were clsoing, didn't have time to test drive it, but I had always assumed these were priced out of m y reach, but it's around the same price as a TL-S.

I personally think the new C class looks really classy. I came home, googled about them, and found a mix of boht positive and negative reviews.... you find that on every car... always someone who likes and someone who doesn't.

it was MB answer to the new 3 series...not as sporty and not as fast as the 335i but they basically said it was "almost" as good, but more luxurious in focus.

i don't know much about MB reliability, service costs..but i've seen a TON of 2008 C300s and C350s all in the 28-32k range. for a 2008 TL w/nav and 10-15k miles, I'm probably looking to spend 26-27k.

from the pricing i saw online, i would suspect i coudl find a similarly equipped C300 or C350 with nav in the same ballpark price. CPO at a MB dealer. maybe i'd pay a grand or two more..but it's not like I'd pay 35k for the C350 and 25k for a TL.....

curious as to what you all know about this car and whether any of you more recent TL buyers test drove one? i may go back and drive it to see what I think...

as I'm buying, I"m looking for a car that is not only fun to drive, handles nicely, looks classy/upscale, but is also safe, reliable, and will be a good car to own for the next 5-6 years. one thing about the TL that is great is that it's probably highly reliable..

the only negatives I can think about of the TL are the FWD being not as ideal for sportiness and that the bodystyle is recently redone..so that in a few years, as the new TL hits the road more, the 3G will look more "dated".

whereas this C class was redesigned for 08, so while you are getting the efirst year, may have some bugs, the styling will look fresher for longer.

driving dynamics are unknown as I've never driven the C class...

the C350 woudl be a closer match to the TL in terms of power, and they are a tad more expensive,, but i've seen CPO 350s in the 30k range..like 30k loaded wiht nave at a MB dealer.

basically, if I decide that I want a 2008 TL type S - I'm going to be spending about 29-30k at a dealer. that is about as low as I thin kthey are going to budge.

for tha tmoney, I honestly coudl ge ta C350, or almost a 335i....???

anywya..what do you all think of the C class? i'm not necessarily looking for a car to impress anyone, and since it's the lowest priced/cheapest MB, it's not like it's an S class, but it is a nice looking car...to me, it stands out more than a standard TL..it has a styling that is more aggressive looking, kind of like hte TL-S..but whereas the TL-S looks more sporty in a Japanese sedan way,t he C350 has a sporty look in a euro way.... you guys know what I m ean...

anyone here drive one? know about long term reliability? etc etc?

TeknoKing

All I know C300 is a hooked up civic.

If you don't mind smaller interior just to have the famous Benz logo everywhere, go for it. It's a nice little car.

I'm personally looking into the new E-class, especially the new E coupe.

And Type-S, is the most bang for the buck. And I'll walk C300 and C350 all day long. C63AMG...now that's a sex machine right there.

It all comes down to finances, residual value and of course your personal driving preference and the actual daily uses for the car.
I drive over 60 mi a day, so 30mpg on highway average is the selling point of my Type-S, especially when combined with spirited driving.

knavinusa

From my brief test drive, the C350 is a pretty quick car, but it doesn't have that sporty edge that the TL has; it feels more like a luxury car. Honestly, for that price I'd rather get a 335i, although it'll cost more for a fully-loaded one, I imagine.

KaMLuNg

iTrader: (5)

i had a C-class 4-matic... and i traded it in for the TL... i had nothing but problems with the MB... it was only 2 yrs old... but it was in the dealer for major repairs 3 times within a 6 month period... by major i mean (caliper failure, abs unit, and transfer case for the AWD... i traded it in 5k miles before the warranty was up...

i agree the MB is more classier luxury... but the TL also has more bang for the buck and is not that bad in the luxury category... if i ever get another MB, it will have to be at least an S class... from what i read on the MB forums, people have so many problems on the lower end models...

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Before I got my TL-S, I test drove a C300. In general, I felt the car drove well, though the suspension was noticeable softer than the TL-S and was too expensive brand new. I would have to give up too many options and the MB dealer was not willing to deal at all on a car that would have to be custom ordered (the one they had on the lot was the wrong color and was basically bare bones, but was the only MT available at the time). As a used car, you won't run into this problem, but the TL-S was a better buy then and just in terms of resale value and bang for the buck, is probably still the better buy now.

BradE

Benz has gone way down in quality since the merger, I wouldn't buy one under any circumstances.

monkeyquach

iTrader: (2)

Alot of people always rip on mercedes quality, but ive never had problems with my merc's. .... C63 Coming to my garage soon!

BradE

A lot of it is because back in the 80's and 90's, they were fantastic cars. They seem to have dropped like a rock.

Remember the SEL series cars? Those things were fucking beasts, 150k miles was just a break in. 300k miles wasn't uncommon.

monkeyquach

iTrader: (2)

I wish i could say i did but honestly ive only gotten into mercs starting in 02, and none of my cars have over 60k so i might still be in break in =P

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

From my experience as well, all NEW mercedes are garbage.... the SL used to be nice, because it was still a german built car... but ive lost all hope...

my mother is a car fanatic, as is her business partner..... together, they have gone through about 5-6 mercedes in the past 10 years, ALL of them had trouble except 1

1) 2003 CL600 - Major electrical problems/ premature airbag ejaculation (no kidding)
2) 2002 SL600 Silver Arrow - Electrical problems, faulty fuel pump & float, bad weld on gas tank, convertible top breaking/locking in place half open

3) 2004 SL500 - Electrical problems
4) 2007 SL550 - Slight Electrical problems (HIDs)
5) 2008 CLK550 - Tires BALD at 9k miles ?? Mich. PS2's (my mother does drive like an animal)
6) 2009 SL550 - Only 2 months old....

My grandfather had a 1986 500SEL , that he finally sold (against his will) with 27x,xxxk miles..... car ran good, it just kept stalling when he had the AC on , at a red light... he bought it, and then imported it straight over from Germany

MistahSleepy

Imo, when buying a Mercedes Benz, even the lowest tier model you have to think about cost of ownership.

Owning a Mercedes also means you have to service the Mercedes. I've heard some horror stories from some of my friends who drive Benz cars past warranty and they always tell me even the basic checkups cost an arm and a leg.

Imo, if your looking for bargain prices on a Mercedes, maybe you should just stick with the Acura. Mercedes is not a car company for someone who is frugal, they nickel and dime you on everything.

candrews

We also test-drove the C300 as well as the 335i before settling on the TL. MB felt "solid" especially in wet (snow) as I live in MN; however, too much like it was insulated from the road and I like to feel the road when I drive a sports car. Price was also a factor and the TL seems to be a consistent winner in Consumer Reports, etc.

Nothing wrong with the MB mind you. Matter of preference.

Majofo

damn that's a f*ked up list, especially the airbag & fuel tank.. your grandpa's SEL probably just had a vac leak somewhere choking out the motor..

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

^ yea, probably an easy fix, but after he owned the car for about....15 years, it was time to upgrade lol...

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

the air bag thing, was my mothers biz. partner... i believe it was the side airbags... just POPPED one day... Merc. claimed she hit a pot hole, but later realized it was a electrical/computer malfunction

csmeance

European cars in general cost an arm and a leg to repair! An oil change on my 7 costs around 250 dollars from the dealer, 1K per axle for new brakes, and tires around the 2200 dollar mark. Just remember, the car may be cheap now, but it'll cost you a bit when you get out of warranty/service plan. BMW's 4 year 50K free service rocks!

SebringSilver

You guys are pretty funny.

You make it sound like the 3G TL doesn't have major quality issues.

BradE

It doesn't have anywhere near the maintenance cost of a Mercedes.

SebringSilver

But if the OP has done his due dilligence and is happy with the running cost of the car, then that shouldn't be the sole deciding factor. You're going to have higher maintenance costs with all European cars, Mercs, Bimmers, Audis, Porsches, etc. It's already a given. But what those cars provide in return are deemed worthwhile to their owners, in exchange for the relatively higher cost of maintenance.

JTS97Z28

iTrader: (4)

Ok soooo then what "major" quality issue does the 3G TL have then? Its pretty obvious a Honda is gonna be lower maintanence than a BMW, Benz, or Audi. If you own one of those cars its almost expected that your gonna have issues from time to time.

SebringSilver

I'm not here to bash the TL. But anyone who's spent any reasonable amount of time on this board, or owning a 3G TL, would know full well what the issues are. What I find amusing is the lack of objectivity when people make derisory remarks about other makes of cars without any sense of perspective. If Mercedes-Benz or BMW or any of those European marques made such bad cars, would there really be as many of them on the road as there are?

MR1

Overall the european cars look good, perform well and have a halo. I think lots of people make purely emotional decisions based on looks and status. In addition, some think that all issues are typical. Parts and repair cost are outrageous.

csmenance puts in in realistic terms. I have no desire to have the ongoing expenses that he mentions. To each his own. I'll take the lowly Acura with the lowly ongoing cost every time. Well aware of the difference, not willing (or able) to pay for that pleasure.

23109VC

thanks for all the info.

I am aware that upkeep may be a bit higher. I havne't driven one, or even sat in one, so I may take a look at one this weekend.

I also plan to look at some more TL's.

I'm taking into consideratio a lot of factors. honestly, I want something nice, luxurious, somewhat sporty, and practical. Long term reliability is also a factor. If I was leasing, I wouldn't care as much about longevity, but since I will likely keep this car 5-6 years, I want something that will hold up over time and not fall apart.

someone posted about how there is a diff between older and newer mercedes..I cant' speak to that issue on M/B, but can on Volvos. I grew up in a household where my parents ONLY bought Volvos. one wagon we had literally ran for almost 500k miles.... it was immortal.... my dad dind't exactly take good care of it..i'm sure he went WAY too far between oil chanes, NEVER changed the tranny fluid...and it just went and went and went. I ended up buying a couple volvos when older...I guess it rubbed off on me and I ended up buiying a 99 Volvo S70..that thing ran and ran. ford got involved with Volvo in 2000 or so...and the 2004 S60R I had was more problem ridden despite being almost new compared to my S70 that had twice the mileage on it... some of those "older" cars were built to last.

maybe the car companies got smart and just stopped building them so nice. why buy a new car if your old one stays too nice....the car makers want it to last...just not last "too long"...b/c they want you back to sell you another one....

i went looking at pricing on 2007 E350s.... it amazes me. there are piles and piles of used E350s...for high high 20s and low 30s. essentially, some of the Acura deales are asking the same for a 2008 TL-S than what M/B dealers are asking for a loaded E350...and c'mon..the TL-S is nice, but in terms of pricing, I can't imagine a TL-S is truly "worth" the same on the open market as a loaded E350... MSRP was NOT the same....

mlody

My car has about 35k miles, I brought it brand new - so far I experienced:


3rd gear problem - fixed after two years
broken engine subframe - fixed under warranty
rack and pinion replaced - ticking noise, fixed
subwoofer rattle - not fixed yet
master clutch cylinder - replaced under warranty
rattles and buzzing noise – they are everywhere, some were fixed by myself, others still exist, dealer does not hear anything
an inch gap between A pillar and the dashboard – talked to the dealer and was told it is a characteristic of the car

I also had 04 TL 6MT – owned it only for about 10k miles and it almost ate the rear tires to the metal in addition to most of the issues above such 3rd gear problem, master clutch cylinder and tons of rattles


if someone tells me the Acura’s are reliable I will just simply laugh, I had 2 TL's and both are crap in reliability department if you ask me. I also had 99 Civic that had over 120k miles when I sold it and I only experienced two minor problems - same company, way different experience

knavinusa

No doubt the rattles drove me absolutely nuts when I had my TL. My A3 just feels a lot more solid in general. The doors close with a high quality tone, and the fit and finish is better overall. Not to say that the TL felt like a cheap car because it also felt quite solid, but German cars have those little details that I don't see in Japanese luxury cars. Even Lexus doesn't feel quite up there with MB/BMW/Audi, but their cars are considerably better than Acura's when it comes to fit and finish.

However, Japanese engines do generally tend to be more reliable, and maintenance costs are definitely lower. It really boils down to what is more important to the owner.

chairguru22

I find that the newer luxury cars like MB and BMW are having more and more problems due to their increase in reliance on technology and electronics. EVERYTHING is controlled electronically with either iDrive or COMAND. Even your keys are electronic now! Very easy to break down and if it does, so many things go wrong because it relies on one system. Too smart for it's own good.

mlody

You brought up another point that I actually forgot about. My TL (I am guessing most of them do the same) has glass shattering sound when closing front doors while the windows are 2-3 inch lowered. First time I did it, I almost flipped when I heard it; from now on, I either have windows all the way up or down when I open/close front doors.

23109VC

i'm going to test drive a C300 and C350 this weekend. i'll let you all know what I think. I've best driven a lot of cars and am pretty objective.... i'll report back!!

CdTriX

i found the c300 very bland and sluggish.. my cousin has a c300 4matic and at the time, i had a TSX... the TSX was a better and sportier car than the c300.

here's the negative things i noticed against the TSX
- The C300 felt really heavy, maybe it was the 4matic but it felt really slow and sluggish
- The C300 felt really underpowered, the TSX felt peppier and sportier
- I don't like the type of materials used in the C300.
- COMMAND system is ridiculously hard to use. The TSX didn't have anything
-C300 felt like a boat in the corners and didn't thrill me as much as the TSX did around some twisties.

The only thing the C300 has over the TSX is the exterior.. damn the C300 looks pimp...

csmeance

My car doesn't even have a mechanical shifter, it's all electronic. In case I have to get the car into neutral, I have two separate tools to get it there. First I have to Disengage the parking brake, then manually get the car into neutral with the other. As well I have a screw-driver as part of my roadside tool kit in-case the sun-roof gets stuck..

This is due to the new system that honda has started using for the power windows.

csmeance

Let's keep this thread to the C Class Vs. The TL in terms of buying them used and the benefits of each, not German cars vs. American vs Japanese.

Zigma

:yeeeeah but its one hell of a panty dropper, especially in Daytona Beach

It's worth it at the end

Back on topic, my friend has 4 cars, an Acura RL, an S500, and the new e-class. I remember him telling me a story about one of his rims coming out the benz when he was driving in the highway, or how a tow truck did not tow it correctly. Everytime I see him, he's driving the RL

23109VC

i went to a lot that had a TL-S, C300, E350, GS300, 328, 530i... it was one of those "smaller" lots that specializes in luxury cars... the place was kind of small and crappy looking, and some of the cars seemed a little dirty... nto sure I would ever buy a car from a place like this =- I would worry the car had some hidden problem and they just covered it up..

anyway, I got to really compare the sizes of the cars, and I drove the TL-S and E350 back to back.

First off - the C300/C350 is too small for me. I sat in the back of the TL, then immediately got into the C class. it's obviusly smaller and tighter in the back. much narrower. the C class looked nice, but I didn't even bother to drive it as the back seats are too small.

the E class was more the size of the TL, but maybe the E was slightly bigger. I drove the E350 w/sport package. i liked it, but it was clearly more of a cruiser car than the TL. the sport package let it handle okayh around turns, but it didn't have that sporty feel to it. for a long freeway trip it woudl be nice.... for "fun" driving it's not as good as a TL-S.

weird thing si that hte E classes dropped in price a ton. I looked online at the M/B dealers and they are asking about the same for a 2007 E350 that the Acura dealers are asking of ra 2007 TL-S. these cars did NOT have the ame MSRP! the E classes were probalby selling for around 45-55k based on options..

honestly, the E class looks more upscale. if that's what you want. the TL, to me, though was nicer inside. the E class might have better materials, but the TL felt better in terms of how it looked. the nav screenon teh TL was bigger and easier to rear/manipulate than the E classes.

the trunk was huge in the E class. it's a tad bigger in eveyr way making it more of a midsize-full size car where the TL is more of a midsize car.

half of me liked the luxury ride of the E class along wiht the curb appeal - but the TL was more enjoyable to drive and felt more sporty - which is what i like.

BTW, the TL they had was WDP TL-S, 2007, 12k miles, he only asked $27k. not a bad deal,. car was pretty clean, ddrove nice, ,but these little corner lots worry me. i'd never buy one unless it got a full inspection from a private mechanic/dealer. i'd be afriad the car was in a crash, or had some other problem, and thse little lots fixed it up and and pullng a fast one on you...

i bet i coudl get this guy downt o24 or 25k no problem. just a guess....

BradE

Take the TL-S to the dealer and let them go through it. Might cost you some $$$, but it's worth it. You can ask them to run the VIN and give you the service history also, most will do it.

Will Y.

There was a major body change in the E-class this year, so prices have dropped like rocks. CLKs are about the same price as newer 3G TL base models, FWIW, as they also underwent a major change this year.

The navigation system on the 2007 E350 is antiquated compared to that of the 3G TL. I have two friends who had/have 2007-2008 E350s-- it's OK to be driven around in one, but I wouldn't want to drive one.

23109VC

i have to agree with you guys, the E350 was a "nice" car but it didn't do anything for me.

I'm back to wanting to get a TL. yeah, an E350 says "i have a benz", but honestly, I don't care about that. I want something that is reliable, nice to drive, and will last 5-6+ years and not break down or cost me a ton in repairs/upkeep.

Now I'm debating to get a Type S or just ge ta base w/nav. dealers seem to be asking an arm and leg for the type S,
AND one drawback to the Type S for *me* is the rougher ride. the bsae rides plenty firm.... but tyhe Type S is stiffer... my wife thinks it's too rough.... and this will be a second family car.. my DD, but we will take it around town with kids much of the time....

before you go replying "but it's your car, get what you want.." type replies... I have a 2000 boxster in the garage as a toy car. it's not worth a lot, it's not super fast...but it is TONS of fun and believe me, THAT thign rides rough! 18s and factory sport suspension, it's really firm and is my toy. my wife's got a good point when she says "you have the boxster to have 'fun' in, this is a secondary family car to haul you to work and kids and the family when we don't htake the MDX".

on that level she is right. so by getting a base w/nav, I can save a couple grand on the ultimate sale price, probably - and while it' wont' be as sporty as a Type S, it still drives n ice. i recently test drove an 08 base w/nav and was impressed at how firm/sporty it felt for a standard car. i didn't try to take any twisty roads in it....but I would imagine that while it's not as canyon carving as the Type S, it will do piles better than that E350 in the turns... and honeslty, this car isn't for joyriding. it's for commuting, and famly duty.

i *could* just get a freakin' accord...but i don't like them. i want something I like..but at the same time, I won't want to buy ac ar that doesn't fit my needs.

the TL does seem to ride pretty firm, the steering if tight - for a "base" car it still has what I consider to be a pretty sporty feeling ride. maybe not BMW sporty, but it's sportier than the M/B and a HELL of a lot sportier than the 99 Volvo i've been driving the last few years...

i just put up anothe thread wondering how cheap I can get a base w/nav vs a type S, if I go with an 07 or 08,. .CPO.

so essentially, for me - at this point - forget the E350. oh and the nav screen did suck. it was really small and too low in the dash.. the TL screen woudl be far bette to use and look at as you drove.

csmeance

get yourself the TL base, IMO unless you want the 6spd. or really need the extra power (you have the boxster), why spend the extra cash. You could always take that 3-4K you save and put it towards future maintenance like oil changes, tires, etc.

As far as corner lots go, some of them have great pricing. Pay the 100 dollars if you are serious about buying it and get it checked out. They will check everything properly, ask them basically to check it as if it were to be CPO'ed. I'm sure you can haggle the price down a little bit more, check for every scratch, dent, and defect you can find so it can be taken off the price of the car.

23109VC

i do NOT want a 6 speeed TL - period. I have a manual in the boxster - and my DD is for going to/from work - and hauling the family around when we don't want/need the MDX's size/hauling. the TL will get better MPG, and will have all the creature comforts, nav, that we are used to/love on our MDX.

I'm leaning toward a base w/nav.

I don't want a base w/OUT nav as the nav system is part of the draw to the TL in the first place.

I'm thining I can find a CPO base w/nav - either an 07 or 08 with LOW miles - for 25ish.

that's about what I'd like to spend. I could spend m ore, but really don't want to.

andyc123

Mod is right, even my E46 (previous gen 3 series) got old really quick when taking it to the dealer for maintenance, which is akin to Mercedes costs.

I loved that car, and it was solid, but simply dropping a few grand every year was too much. Another thing on maintenance: "Scheduled" maintenance is BS. Brakes gone bad? Steering pump? etc. Most of that is NOT covered under scheduled maintenance. I fell into that sucker trap.

BigToys32

German cars are horrible to work on . And yes something will eventually need to be done to the most reliable car. thats the same for Audi and Bmw...

With that said... I hear more bad reviews about MB then other luxery brand cars