Bearcat94

Question for TL-S owners (maybe 6MT owners too, since you also have Brembo's on the front).

I made a mistake today and had to "panic brake" and turn SHARPLY left. I mashed the brake and heard tires squeal, but was able to steer. I did NOT feel any pedal pulsation feedback.

It *felt* like the tire squeal was from wheel lock-up. That plus the lack of pedal pulse makes me wonder if ABS engaged - I guarantee you, it should have.

Have you ever put your car into ABS on dry pavement? Did you have a distinct pedal pulsation from the ABS?

01tl4tl

It can vary
Throw some water on the street and test for side to side braking thru it

teomcdohl

Test drove a BMW - yes, you can get the abs to go off on dry pavement... you have to MASH, i mean really slam the hell out of the pedal, as hard as you can to get it to go off, but it does. I thought I slammed on the brakes hard and he said no no try it again, and this time really slam those brakes.. and so I did, and yes, the ABS did go off, with the same rumbling... in conclusion, you have to mash the hell out of it for it to go off. If you're curious, find an empty straight away, floor it, and then smash the brakes. itll go off

The Dougler

iTrader: (1)

I've done dry testing on my car, 6MT, and the ABS modulation feel in the pedal seems very minimal to me compared to previous vehicles. Also from what I have noticed, you will get squealing under ABS modulation on dry pavement, and probably wet to. this is because the wheel is going to and from extreme lock up really quickly.

Bearcat94

Thanks guys. I may need to find a safe area and try it under "test conditions."


Just to recap, here are the "pros and cons" I am weighing, trying to figure out if ABS engaged or not:

- Speed & Engagement: Around 60 - 62 MPH. Panic Stop, Brake Pedal "through the floor".


Pros (i.e., ABS did engage):

- Able to steer with control; Sharp turn left although with significant/expected under-steer.


Cons (i.e., ABS did NOT engage):

- No Pedal pulsation/feedback;
- Wheels *felt* locked up; significant tire squeal; Solid skid marks (turning left).

The tire squeal and skid marks *could* have been from under-steer.


Obviously, my concern is that the ABS works properly and at this point, (hopefully first and last time needed) I am not positive that they did.

Bearcat94

For the curious, here's what happened:

Out for drive in the country to see the fall colors and pick up some Lexington Barbeque (i.e. the original and quintessential NC Barbeque) for dinner.

Doing about +5 to +7 over the 55 MPH speed limit. Not pushing the car *at all* and ZERO traffic - we were WAY out in the sticks.

As we crested a small hill, I discovered, much to my dismay, that the road ended at stop sign and a "T" intersection. Slammed on the brakes and tried to make the left. Came up just a tad short and ran the right side off onto the dirt/gravel shoulder before stopping. No harm done and VERY fortunately, no crossing traffic.

After we caught our breath, I drove back and looked. Prior to the hill and the stop sign, there were NO WARNING SIGNS posted - no "Stop Ahead", no "T" intersection sign, nothing.

Further, the stop sign could not be seen until just before the top of the hill. If you don't know the stop is there, you have about 100 feet to react and stop. 150 feet max.

IMHO, the lack of advanced signage makes for a VERY dangerous situation EVEN at the speed limit.

teomcdohl

Hum... well the thing is, ABS is tricky. What ABS does is pump the pedal for you at crazy speeds so you don't have to - its a fancy little gadget that was built in the late 80's that saved peoples lives. The thing is when you have a good traction... now, its been awhile since ive studied physics, but the coefficient of friction, or mu is better when the ground is dry.. which causes the wheels to not lock up, and hence, no abs.

now, when the ground is wet, it takes a lot less for the abs to go off... water screws up the friction, tires get a bad grip, tires lock.. abs goes off. anyway...

to see if your abs is working correctly, get a few gallons of water on a deserted road, dump em, and have fun...

anyway, dry road it is possible to get the wheels to lock up, but slick surfaces increase that because your wheels are just sliding on the water rather than the road. take a remote control car onto a kitchen floor , it stops just fine. coat the floor with oil... and wheeeeee either way, you should be happy that you're fine. good luck figuring it out. abs isn't a savior either way, just be careful!

Edit: You're lucky! Wow. that sounds pretty dangerous either way.

chill_dog

Sadly, my respect for you just went down a few notches...everyone knows eastern style is the best and the only way for it to legitimately be called BBQ. How appropriate this smilie has become...

As for the ABS, the few of times I've engaged it, both intentionally and unintentionally, I noticed a good bit of pedal pulsation. Maybe compared to other cars it's not much, but it was definitely there.

Glad everyone was ok. And yeah, the BBQ debate has raged for decades and will do so for many, many more. I am open-minded, though...I can say at least western style isn't SC style .

korrupted

Didn't want to start a new thread.
Yesterday I had to mash the brakes.
I was maybe driving no more than 40 mph.
It stopped on a dime, but I didn't get only pulsation, if anything it felt like no feedback,
The pedal felt soft when i mashed it and hit the floor, is this typical of the ABS on this car.?

juruki

iTrader: (2)

I can definitively feel the pulsation on my 07 TL-S. I can tell ABS is engaging for the sounds that my breaks make too... This is on dry and wet pavement.

BEAR-AvHistory

Thing is as long as the car has traction & the wheels are not slipping the ABS will not kick in no matter how hard you push the pedal.

darksom1

I get the vibration Bear. Maybe you are not duplicating the effort properly. Any updates on this?

korrupted

Is it normal for the pedal to have virtually no resistance when you mash it?

stillhere153

iTrader: (1)

the pedal will have no resistance on a panic stomp... it is a damn smart car I tell you... bear experienced VSA in action... for those who have not tested vsa... go to an empty parking lot and do a break cut... you will notice how the car requires little to no correction

korrupted

Wow, why is that, it scared me, thought my brakes went out.

blkaspec

i have heard the ABS, but never felt it

joerockt

The pedal should have a distinct pulsing feel. Felt it in my TSX, and I've felt it in my TL-S, mostly due to loosing traction when breaking.

JetJock

I had to make a panic stop a few weeks ago while turning left. The pavement was dry and I definately felt the ABS working. Since it was a panic situation...I don't remember if the feeling was in the brake pedal...or just the whole car. All I know is it worked during the left turn and the car stopped as the system was designed. I swear by ABS brakes...they have been working in jet airplanes for decades...and are the only thing preventing blown tires during hard braking in a jet...there is absolutely no feeling thru the pedals in a modern jet so the ABS is essential.

BTW....BBQ is always best when you do it yourself on a slow wood fire...no gas or charcoal please.

shubysingh

someone veered in front of us, claimed they didnt see us, but anyway, i felt the pedal pulse

Bearcat94

Following my original post, I found a deserted area and hit the brakes hard from ~45 MPH on dry pavement. The ABS definetly works, but pedal pulsation is not as "severe" or as noticable as it has been in other cars I've driven.

ABS in the TL-S is much more noticable if the engagement is in the Wet (which I also experimented with following the origin of this thread).

And stillhere153 is right: This car is seriously F'n smart. It will detect the rate at which the brake pedal is depressed and from that determine whether or not it is a "panic" stop. If the brake is depressed in a panic-like fashion, it will provide more brake force, faster than "normal". I think this might be why the pedal gets "soft" when panic braking.

In retrospect, I am convinced that ABS did work properly, that the skid marks and squeal was from under-steer and that I was able to "save it" only because ABS & VSA helped get and keep the car going in the direction I was trying to make it go.

IOW - No ABS/VSA and I'm in a cotton field calling a tow truck an ambulance or both.

blacktl6mt

If you were in a true lockup condition with no ABS available or activated, you would have no steering control. Even if you turned the steering wheel during the lockup, you would be forced to continue in the same direction thanks to Newton's first law of motion. Maintaining steering control is the biggest single benefit to having ABS in the first place. While the stopping distance will be a little longer than not letting them lockup in the first place, it does allow the driver to 'plant' the brake pedal in an emergency and concentrate on steering without having to worry about lockup (like in the old days).

Example: Without ABS. Car pulls out in front of you. You slam on the brakes. You look for a route around. Brakes are locked. Turn the wheel. Car doesn't turn. Pump the brak----. Hit the back of the car.

With ABS. Car pulls out in front of you. You slam on the brakes. You look for a route around. Turn the wheel. Steer around the car. Give him the finger as you go by. Check your shorts.

Any questions?

-Jeff

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

my

my 06 5AT and my 08 TL-S (6MT brembos)

the old car, ABS always , always was kicking in when it wasnt really an "emergency" braking... the brembos.. i've only felt the ABS kick in twice. (over a pothole while braking).. they really are some great brakes

stillhere153

iTrader: (1)

don't know if you guys know this but blackura had the worst experience with brakes...
thank god for brembos... my only complaint is that they fade way to quick when they are heated up.... but of course can't expect too much from oem rotors and pads...

darksom1

Are you referring to the post that started that curse shit? I remember Whitecura writing about Blackura's untimely demise! Or was it? Hmm...he got off without a scratch, while that poor, defenseless, not bothering anybody NBP was totally fucked by that wall. Oh for shame! And then, how does he repay the NBP's love and care? With his constant bickering about how she isn't this or that and...and...oh, where was I...Oh yeah...ABS is good!

joerockt

If you really want to test it and feel it pulse, slam the brakes on a patch of dirt or sand.

TLAdvanced

iTrader: (4)

Whitecura.... LOL

S PAW 1

Hey Bearcat, you didn't instictively "pump" the brakes did you?

We were taught in the old school to pump your brakes, which is actually the last thing you should do with ABS. It totally defeats the system.
Do you have different sized tires/wheels from stock? That can also mess up the ABS/VSA.

Bottom line, if the system was working properly without you pumping the brakes on stock sized tires/wheels, you should have felt a pulsation.

The only time exclusion I can think of is if you were on a road with uneven surface wheras the ABS would ask WTF, as your front tires are nearly off the ground.

ChicagoBurbs

I second that. The few times I've mashed the brake pedal on dry pavement in my '07 TL-S (for example: Wife said "turn there" AFTER the intersection once)...I felt and heard the ABS working. I know that there are times that for some inexplicable reason the TL decides to not trigger some of the 'e-systems' (I.E. VSA) on the car when you'd expect them to run. I've seen it on my car several times.

If I were you I'd try mashing them somewhere that there is no traffic to test it out. But IMO, the conditions you described should certainly have triggered the ABS.

trancemission

Have you guys heard that you shouldnt push the pistons on the calipers back in with ABS? without opening the bleeder

I just changed my pads last night and a buddy at work said you shouldnt do that. thats the first Ive heard of it