seamg

I working on my technique for downshifting while cornering in order to exit the corner in a lower gear and accelerate out. I need some pointers. Can anyone out there take me step-by-step through the method he uses?

Thanks.

oscart

Now this things assume you are a newbie at it...

The most important thing to learn first is engine rev matching. DO NOT try to learn on actual corners. Do this on the highway. Practice a couple times every time you ride. Start at 6th gear and drop one gear at a time until you get to 3rd gear matching every gear... Depending at the speed you are going you might want to try even 2nd gear... but prob not. When you master that then skip a gear... 6th-4th, 5th-3rd. You need to get to know your car really well here. Then go for the one you'll really need for most of your Mario Andriette cornering... dropping from 6th to 3rd gear... Just be careful because your engine limiter wont save you if you drop it to too low a gear.

Now this wont work on every corner but it will get you started. You'll have to take it easy at the first few corners while you get to know your cars cornering limits and then learn how much braking you should also incorporate into the equation and where to do the brakeing... This is where you'll have to learn some heel/toe techniques.

And remember no peeking at your gauges while cornering... that split second of taking your eyes of the road could be the end of your tl...

You can probably find better written instructions somewhere on the net...
I just found this one in google: http://www.318ti.org/notebook/shifting/

Hope that helps.

spidey07

its not easy without heel-toe (using right foot on brake and throttle at the same time).

Best this is to work on smooth downwhifting and then try to combine that with braking.

Say your in third. To downshift smoothly press clutch, give a little bit of throttle to get your RPMs to where they should be for second gear and then release clutch (I think around 2K more). With lots of practice, and it will take a lot of practice, you can do it without thinking. You've got it down when you can't tell you're actually downshifting (meaning the car does't learch forward or backword but just maintains the same speed)

Work on that and then we can try to add braking in there as well. Then we can throw in turning.

caball88

this is for normal driving right not at the track or autocross? i think you guys are making it sound harder than it is. i personally dun do any heel toe manuevers whatso ever. its just way overkill for driving on the street. only reason that someone needs to do that is to shave a couple of tenths off their autocross or track times. its real easy for turns:

1)hit brakes and hold clutch down
2)put car into desired exiting gear
3)make turn
4)give it a little gas to match the rom that is suppose to be at.
5)release clutch and speed off

i dun see any reason you want to be on the brakes and the gas at the same time. only a person that wants to reduce the delay of rev matching(tenths of a second) would want to keep his heel on the gas to get the rpms at the right speed immediately. you can also downshift while braking and you will find yourself in the correct exiting gear when taking the turn.

dougpt10

You will want to gear into neutral after yo depress the clutch, rev match, clutch again then shift into lower gear. By using your method of just depressing the clutch and rev matching without putting into neutral and releasing the clutch you are in effect riding the clutch. You will burn it out. You really need to "double clutch" which is the technique I described

spidey07

that's pretty dangerous. You're going threw a turn with the clutch pressed in?

cM3go

having a 3rd foot would REALLY help :p

spidey07

meh, that's what syncros are for. Just about everything I've read says modern transmisions double clutching is really unnecessary. But it is fun to master it. Plus I didn't want to confuse the OP.

PoochaKannInc

I am equipped w/ a 3rd leg... . spidey...not sure I understand why disengaging the clutch (pressed down) through a turn is dangerous. I don't do it all the time, but there are times when I do it.

I'm still trying to work on my heel/toe techniques for better control starting on a hill...

spidey07

Maybe its just me. I don't like not having control over the front wheels and not being in gear through a corner (unless I'm just leasurely putzing around). There have been many times where I missed judged and was too fast and had to throw it into an oversteer condition...So I needed power immediately to the front wheels.

To each their own of course.

cM3go

i understand why pushing the clutch pedal down through a turn is dangerous... cause my car starting drifting goin into a left turn at 40 MPH

prophet_RENAMED

herm..u should always be in gear when going in and out of a turn. Worse is when you come out of a corner and then let the clutch go, you can actually cause the car to lose control that way if you don't rev match.

seamg

Prohpet....can you break down your technique step-by-step?

PoochaKannInc

Makes sense, and I understand the reasoning. I initially thought when spidey mentioned it, it was "dangerous" because of some extreme wear to the clutch. But he explained it well...

I agree with you about rev-matching coming out of a corner, unless you blip the throttle slightly, you can jerk/shock the driveline with some "interesting" results.

spidey07

hehe, and its that jerk/shock that throws the whole car out of whack.

Its a scary feeling having her buck like a freaking bronco. I'll have to tell y'all about the panic breaking I had to do while 90 MPH around a corner. yuck. Just, yuck.

caball88

not sure why keeping the clutch down is dangerous, but you can also put it nuetral if you feel better that way.

spidey07

My point was you have no control over the front wheels/traction. That's what I was saying is dangerous. But again this only applies if you are taking a corner at a decent clip.

Aegir

The 318ti notes link has a lot of good information. On a related note, another strategy is to not upshift when you don't have to. Downshifting is real simple when you don't have to do it. Think about it - you can cover a lot of range (everything legal) using second and third gear alone. Of course, I'm not suggesting driving this way all the time...

spidey07

yeah, but if I upshift I go faster.
:lol2:

Aegir

Yes...if you are going over 90mph...

spidey07

well I DO have to merge.
:enforcer:

PoochaKannInc

I actually printed out the 318ti link to read...(yeah nothing is going to get done at work today...hmmm...just like every other day)...

One advantage of NEVER upshifting is you get to hear that wonderful engine note all the time. I guess the disadvantage would be 6 mpg!

Caball...I think the point Spidey was trying to make was that for "instant" acceleration in a curve you should be in a gear in case you do need to move faster or avoid something...I don't think its dangerous in any other way...

And uh Spidey...90 mph in a corner? Maybe Aegir had a point with not upshifting EVER to avoid going that fast around a curve...

spidey07

I like exit ramps. Yeah, I know...but I still like them and there's nobody around.

I'm just gonna shutup now before I get mauled.
:o

Aegir

Fair enough!

JoganJani

People! If you are driving in NEUTRAL or with clutch disengaged (pressed down) for more than a second. You no nothing about manual driving and are stupid and should buy 5AT.

Aegir

Wow, you sure made post 666 a good one... :devil:

PoochaKannInc

That's a little harsh. But if you drive in neutral or w/ the clutch disengaged for more than three seconds, THEN you are stupid and should buy a 5AT...

Seriously though, there are times that holding down the clutch for more than a second is fine, and in fact it helps with a smoother transition between gear changes...

JoganJani

Now that I've attention, One should not disengage from an engine drivetrain anytime. Only allowable is for the time to shift and revmatching. But when people drive in neutral or disengage clutch and glide it's very dangerous since the only control over the car would be brake at that time. To control the speed by engaging drivetrain is the best and safest control one can have.

PoochaKannInc

You are correct sir! Now wouldn't that have been nicer to say rather than call people stupid?

If you'll excuse me...I need a drink...all this thinking is giving me a headache...

William_B

Well put.

Aegir

Agreed and good point. Fits in with my "don't shift if you don't have to" suggestion - which of course is intended for periodic aggressive cornering fun, not as an invitation to visit the gas station daily.

rets

Thanks, this is useful info.