EggrollXpress61

Hey guys, got some bad news. My little sister is turning 16 pretty soon and she maybe driving my car. She cant afford to buy it from me in whole so I was thinkin about leasing a new BMW E46 M3 w/ quite a bit of options. the grand total comes out to be $57,000. I cant afford to buy it and she cant afford to buy my TL but she wants it really really bad. SO I think Ill just make her pay for the monthly lease payments till its about equal to the value of my TL right now (only 7,000 miles). I love the car but the M3 is sooo sexy and fast. The TL is kinda too old for me a 17 year old, but dont get me wrong I love the car. Im just lookin for something a little more youthful. My parents are eggin me on to sell my TL to my sister, but im so confused. Im really gonna miss the 8" nav, DVD-A, HFL, and all the features =( .Its been fun. I was also wondering about the lease. I have never leased a car before. How does it work? As far as I understand, I pay monthly payments to a company that buys my car for me and I slowly pay them back + intrest. But after 36 months or so, I can choose to buy the car or to switch it to a new car? How much would be a reasonable lease end up to be after 36months? I dont wanna pay $40,000 just to drive the car for 3 years. Also, how much would the lease payment be? I dont think/know if my sister can afford it all by herself. Thanks!

mastertl

well...it really depends on how you want to do the lease

i am currently leasing my TL so heres what I can tell you

the amount you put down at lease signing, which acts like a down payment, will make your monthly payments less respective to how much you pay

next you have to figure out how much you want to drive the car, like an estimation. usually the compnay will offer 12k or 15k annual miles. the more miles, the more expensive. if you go over, they will charge you extra (it is usually a small fee)

you can choose how many months you wnat it. more months = less per month pay.

thats the basics. now if you want cheaper you can do what i did, if its possible for you

my parents own a pretty big company and they got the car on a business lease. the business lease will drop your price significantly but it will increase your insurance slightly.

furthermore assuming your family has a business, you can use it as a tax deductable (i work for my parents)

i havea 36 months lease and from my calculations...it is about 9000 give or take total at the end of my lease.

but if you dont have a business, i suggest you opt for a 48 month lease and put at least 5000 down. it looks like you should be going to college soon, go for the 12k annual miles unless you drive your friends or go out a lot. from what i can see...it should be in the range of 400-500/month (i am only estimating based on the price of TL and price of MB and what I got out of my deal for the lease, so it will not be accurate) depending on credit.

ps. the TL is not an "old" car for you. haha i am barely one year older than you and i feel like it is a fitting car for poeple of any age.

jjsC5

I understand the insurance issue, but why would a business lease be less than a personal lease? The Acura dealer could care less what you do with the car - they are going to want to make the same profit on the car. What am I missing?

EmuMessenger

Well, I know when I was 17, I probably would have taken the M3. That would have been more in line with my budget at that time. I was earning upwards of $40-50/wk.

Harkov

what the heck does a 17 year old kid living in oklahoma do for a 'living' to afford a 35k car, let alone a 57k car?

TL05

and how is his little sister going to afford to pay monthly lease payments on a M3. sheesh you guys must be loaded.

GaleForce

E46 M3s are literally going to be taking a 10k+ hit since the new 3 series bodystyle is coming in 2005, and the new M3 in 2006. Yeah, its a bit away, but E46 M3s are already selling for less than 40k on eBay and I got an offer for one for 25k believe it or not. I wouldn't buy an M3 now, thats just me... as long as I could wait. I love the M3 and if there was no possibility of me being able to wait for the new one, I'd easily take it over the TL, but I say set aside the money and wait for the new one if you can. Its like buying a 2003 TL late in 2003 and missing the redesign.

MasterTL, damn, 9k for a TL lease, thats crazy. Way to exploit the government :P. If you could get leases that cheap why didn't you look at the S4, M3, etc.?

William_B

LMAO

DMZ

I wonder too...

redline_RENAMED

I've had an M3 that recently got stolen and i replaced it with a TL. The M3 is an amazing car. I loved it. However the TL does have a lot more creature comforts, the navi is much better, the audio is much better, and the voice control is awsome. You will get pulled over a lot more in an M3. And the insurance is going to be $1500+ more.


Lease payments with very little down should be $850 - $950 a month depending on how you option it out.

I had $6800 down on a 1yr old with 10K miles on it to get my payment down to $656 a month.

My TL was with $0 down just $200 for plates and First payment, for $556 a month. and my insurance dropped about $1500.

mobilezen

17 year old male + BMW M3....who's paying insurance? You must either earn a lot of money or have really nice & rich parents. lol.

EggrollXpress61

This is from another thread I posted in, but:

I currently invested into a snowcone business with my best friend w/ $10k I have come up through my business, www.Firestormtrading.com this past half a year, Its merely a retail site which is easy because I have no running stock, I just order and pick up whatever I need whenever an order is placed. But I got about 1/2 my money from that and id say about 45% from networking systems for some local businesses. And about the rest of that on random jobs such as fixing people's computers and such. All in All, Ive saved up for my car these past almost 5 years. Although I probably would/could have gotten an even nicer car (not that the TL isnt friggin awesome, I love my car) if my parents didnt make me pay for EVERY little thing such as gas, food, electronics, phone bill, and clothes etc less $20 a week which is crap. They make me pay for every box of EZ Mac I eat. I have to write it down on a gay little list. but no complaining.... in return I get to experience the reality and responsibilites of my life and it has encouraged me to really pursue my business career. The snow cone thing is goin pretty good. Only a quarter into summer and weve almost recovered 1/2 of out investments. Anywho, thats the answer to your question....

My parents own a lot of companies (wholesale and some oil sites here in Oklahoma, aka hell on earth) so I guess I have them to thank for my supplies and sources and skills (sending me to votech classes and stuff). I never would have gotten this far without them. As far as work, id say ive done my fair share of work for an almost 17 year old.

EggrollXpress61

They give me a break on insurance. My parents suprisingly pay for that They say they get a better rate for me or something. whatever it is, im likin it

EggrollXpress61

I know thats why im thinkin about waitin it out till the new M3 comes out. My sister may just have to bum rides off her friends or drive the family sienna

EggrollXpress61

nah not loaded, but id say well off. I told my sister that it would be about $1000 a month. She said it was fine. She gets her money by helping out at one of my parents businesses during the summer and after school everyday. She does sales and gets like $7/ hour and 1% commision from her sales. On the weekends she caddies for old guys at the country club golf course. My parents are A LOT easier on her than me. Damn crazy asian nazi parents. Expect wayy too much from the first born son.

EggrollXpress61

How did it get stolen?!?!?! Thats terrible. I know the TL is more luxury/features, but the M3 is sheer power. I got to test drive one w/ SMG and seriously its the best thing since sliced bread. No stalling, missed shifts, nothing! Its awesome. Though it is quite a bit expensive. I want the M3 so I can hopefully beat some of the guys down here. All my backwards hick friends drive Classic Muscle cars and kick my ass. Ive lost a total of atleast $400 in bets id say. I didnt think they would kill me soo bad but damn their 5.8L Mustangs can go! Damn V8s! And this other guy beat me w/ what looked like a beat up POS 57 Bel Air. I laughed at it when I saw it only to get p00wnd by its 502hp :'( Looked like and sounded like it was gonna fall apart any minute. Now they laugh at my TL and say their cars eat rice and how rice rockets suck ass and crap. Guess you cant judge a book by its cover ive learned my lesson so hopefully my future M3 can teach them a thing or 2. btw im hoping to supercharge it but DAMN superchargers are expensive!

EggrollXpress61

yea, i was wondering about that tax deductible. I went there and they told me only SUVs, Trucks, and Vans can be written off as a business expense?!!? They told me id have to get the X5 which is coo but too much of a soccer mom's car. I dont mind about the tax deductible but my parents would prefer ti to be, so I dont know.

GaleForce

You know you could have just used one post for all of that. Anyway, all BMWs are overpriced. Don't get me wrong, they're nice cars, but in the class, there are cars I would get instead since they offer better value and in some cases are just better cars. 3 series I would take a TL over. M3 I would take an S4 over (not as fast but Quattro wins it over for me). I really haven't looked at 5 competitors and 7 competitors because I am really not interested in those (cept the M5 coming out, drool). The X5 is a piece, IMO, I would much rather have a Cayenne S or even better a Toureg.

As for the M3, like I said, its a nice car. Its small, sporty, and if thats what you want, go for it. I sat in one and there isn't much room, the seats aren't very comfortable for daily driving, and it lacks the luxury amenities found in the TL. If you're looking for a car to be a daily driver, which I assume you are since you only have one car, I say stick with the TL and buy an M3 as a weekend driver when and if you can afford two cars. For me, the best combo would be an S4 daily driver and M3 weekend driver, unless of course one day I can afford an M5 or a nice porsche.

But anyway, if you're getting the M3 just so you can win races, it will do just that, but thats an absolutely stupid reason for getting one. My two cents, take it for what its worth.

redline_RENAMED

Some one broke in and got my vallet key that i left in the glove box.
The guy wrecked my car and got away with it. http://www.officebuildings.com/m3
Whole story here: http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=34011

As far as getting the M3 to beat old muscle cars, the M3 won't beat a 502 hp car. And superchargers will void the warranty. It's nice haveing 3yr all maint included with the BMW's. The M3 is one of the most amazing cars. but you'd have to justify the extra $20K a little better that loosing $400 in bets.

I decided to go with the TL to save the $$.

No offense here, but the M3 is way nice for perfomance and comfort, but the TL has a lot more bells and whistles. For 20K less the TL is a much better choice.

Just my .02

elbodude

Let her get her own car.

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

How old is your sister? A thousand bucks a month for a car at a young age is just too much. But it's her money, her decision.

I have a younger brother, and although my parents do expect more from me, I would imagine you have it worse since you have a younger sister (I'm assuming she's a younger sister).

Leasing is based on the assumed depreciation level of the car. Let's say you want to lease a new TL for 36 months. Acura has some numbers figured out, which are assumed prices at which the specific TL would be worth exactly 3 years from now. So, let's say you negotiated the price down to 32,000 including TTL (to make this easy). Acura thinks the car will be worth 17,000 dollars 3 years from now. So they will ask you to pay 15,000 dollars plus profit/interest.

In other words, you're paying for the depreciation cost for the time you "borrow" the vehicle from Acura.

So, 15,000 dollars at .002 lease rate (a pretty common rate, I would say) would be 15,720. 15,720 dividied by 36 months equals 436.67 per month.

Keep in mind I just made up these numbers. Obviously I have no idea what their rates are right now -- new ones come out every 6 months in January and July. Usually they have pretty good deals going on in December and June. I picked mine up in December, and I was going to lease for 36 months, but they had a program where I could lease the car 42 months for less than the total I would've paid for 36 months. An extra 6 months of my car for less money overall? Where do I sign?

Of course, I'm buying the car out now. I've decided to mod it after I got the car, and I've done some stuff that are kind of irreversible at this point. I'm just looking forward to the day Acura gets to rape me on the residual price.

It's usually not a good idea to lease for more than 36 months, unless it was my case. After 36 months, you pay too much, and you would be better off buying the car then selling it. Usually with Acura and BMW, you won't be upside down on the loan and you could actually have cash left over in your pocket after selling it and paying off the loan since the resale value is relatively high.

Keep in mind that just because you're leasing, that doesn't mean you can't negotiate. The lease payments are still based on the negotiated price of the vehicle, so do your best to bring down the price of the car. Also, the lease rate is negotiable, as well. I did not know it at the time of getting my car, but I was told later that it was negotiable. Luckily, it was December and they were trying to get rid of the cars, and had a good lease rate for me. I would've only saved a few bucks by negotiating the lease rate, so I lucked out on that one.

With BMW, I'm not sure when their intervals are for new lease rates. But financial programs are pretty universal across all automotive industry. But I would still ask the BMW dealership when the new lease rates come out. The 1-3 weeks before the new rates come out is when they usually have the best lease programs.

As for the lease rates themselves, .002 is OK, but see if you can find or bring it down to lower than that.

As for going over the allowed mileage, depending on company, you could pay like 25 cents per mile over the limit. So if you're 1,000 miles over the limit, you might have to pay them 250 bucks or more. So choose your mileage wisely -- find out how much they charge per mile over, and make a reasonable guess at how many miles you drive annually. Figure out the price difference between 12,000 and 15,000 mileage allowance and find out which one would make more financial sense to you.

Good luck and I hope I didn't confuse you too much.

GaleForce

Dinan stuff voids the warranty?

NightRider

The M3 and S4 and C32AMG are all nice, but will you ever have a family? That is why I look to get a used S600 Benz in a couple years, as fast if not faster than these cars and you can fit 4 ladies in the back... or just the wife and kids but it is a more practically sized performance sedan. This is why alot of people have the regular drivers and weekend drivers, cuz there aren't too many cars that fit the compromise. I can't fault you for wanting any of those cars though, before I got the TL I was going to lease a 04 C32AMG. (Still around 200-300 more a month though)

Chris3G

Good advice but your formulas/numbers are a bit off. It's not [(depreciation * money factor) / lease term], but [(cap cost + residual) * money factor] + [(cap cost - residual) / lease term]. The money factor, being the interest rate divided by 24 (So .002 is equivalent to ~ 4.8%), is dependent on your credit in the same way the interest rate is when financing. So, given the numbers in your example the 36 month lease would be about $515 / month.

GaleForce

Having a family really isn't something I'm concerned about being than I'm 17. Maybe around when I'm 30 and married I'll add another car to that arsenal to cart kids around. Let me enjoy my freedom, damnit. :P

EggrollXpress61

Dude im 17, lol. Dont think ill be having any kids poppin outta my wife's vagina anytime soon. Atleast I hope not.....lol

GaleForce

You're 17, I sincerely hope you don't have a "wife's vagina" yet.

EggrollXpress61

guess yall dont know how its done here down in the south. Us dadgum country folk are a bit backwards these days. I was in my rocker w/ ol' yeller out on the front porch and all I could hear was what sounded like 2 people havin sex. all of the sudden I hear "watch it pa, your crushin my cigarettes!". and thats how its done here in the south, lol. Now....Just gotta tell bertha to clean out the automobile before i give her another black eye. lol

mastertl

The reason it is a "business expense" is because it is leased under the companies name. Typically, a company is required to make the lease price lower due to the fact that it is not for personal driving purposes, but rather for business. I am not sure why it would not include sedan because thast what my mom takes all of her clients in, her S500.

apwalsh

I don't think the actual lease price is lower. I think people say that it turns out to be cheaper since they can deduct the car payments (which makes it cheaper in the end) and you might be interpreting that as a lower lease price.

However, I deduct my payments, insurance, gas, and maintenance. Being a consultant, the primary use of my car is work. My car is not registered to a company.

apwalsh

Yes, and this was funny as all hell

Legend75

A 17 year old driving a $50,000 car? That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Someone's mommy and daddy are prolly buying this kid a car and taking it as a tax write off! Anyhow, Sounds like this kid got his butt beat drag racing cause his friends know his parent's have money and enjoy taking it from him!

Either way, a 17 year old w/ a car that expensive is looking to get pulled over, robbed and beat up! Idiotic in my humble opinion to let a newly licensed kid drive around in something of such value! To each their own. My 1 & 1/2 cents.

caball88

if a 17 year old can buy a 50K car then i don't see why anyone should stop him. i would love to have an M3 and would take that car over the TL anyday of the week except i can't afford one right now. but eggroll has the opportunity and the capital to buy one so we should be happy for him no?? my advice is to get the M3 if that is the car you want and the money is not an issue.

EggrollXpress61

RTFM . I’ve already stated how i paid for my car. As I’ve stated before, my parents CAN'T get it as a write off so your post is vapid. I did get beat racing a couple times though I have won at times also. As far you being pissed that a 17 year old drives a better car than you is not my problem. Is it really my fault you didn’t work as hard when you were 17? ? What’s the difference between a 17 year old driving a valuable car and a 70 year old driving a valuable car? There is none if they both did the same to earn/acquire it. What difference does age make? Your opinion makes absolutely no sense. According to your logic, when is someone "good enough" or "old enough" to drive a car such as a TL or M3? 7? 17? 70? what kind of a car should a 17 year old drive then? With your logic it sounds like a 17 year old shouldn’t even drive for the fear of being "pulled over, robbed and beat up". As far as I know, more adults have been "pulled over, robbed and beat up" than any 17 year olds out there, I can tell you that for sure. Your post is absolutely asinine and you should really consider having the mods remove it. and wtf is "my 1 & 1/2 cents"?! you trying to start a new trend? You too good for 2 cents? and grammatically it would be "my cent and a half". your obviously not the brightest bulb in the pack. Your intelligence or lack there of forces me not to value your opinion at all. As far as me driving an M3 being the dumbest thing you've ever heard; you obviously haven't read your own post. Enough Said.

rets

Age ain't the issue here... the way you handle the car and the attitude toward driving will be more important than what vehicles you do have at any ages...


BTW, I have to say any coupe is the great fit for age 17...



EggrollXpress61, wish you take care of your 04TL and come back here periodically...

EggrollXpress61

hehe, Im sittin here in boxers w/ a family size bag of funyuns and a 1lb bag of crispy M&M's and a 2 liter bottle of sierra Mist. how much more calm could I get? lol

Ill come back every now and then when the mods start to come out. Cant wait for the all the comptech goodies. Even though it wont be my car anymore dont mean I cant work on it =). My sister likes fast cars so i bet she will let me work on it. Hopefully it wont be similar to the clearing headlights incident. But hey, you learn from your mistakes.

rets

LOL, I will always remember your bitter case... that's the good try...

redline_RENAMED

I don't think it does, but as far as I know, Dinan doesn't make a supercharger for the E46 M3.

http://dinancars.com/Series.asp?Seri...sis=10&Model=9



All the superchargers I've looked at, are from other manufactuer's

PrimalScream

Funny, all of the "well off" individuals I know pay cash for everything (vs leasing or financing). It's a misconception to think that making payments on a status symbol is equivalent to affluence.

I'm not saying that it's a bad thing to lease or finance but you're certainly not a "baller" because you can make payments on an M3. As for your parents, it sounds like they're the type of pretenders who try gaining status at the country club by bragging about the cars their children drive when what they should be doing is teaching you and your sister the value of money.

damntl

I'll admit it I'm jeolous Christ when I turned 16 I asked my old man to co-sign a loan for car and he told me to go pound. I wound up with a $100 1970 Olds Cutless, still got lots of ass though. I cant imagine the amount and quility of ass I would have gotten if I was driving say......a Lambo or Porshe in 1986. It's all about the car and if you can get into a kick ass ride long before you have to glue your hair on in the morning.....then more power to ya. In fact it still cracks me up to see old pervs in their shiny new boxsters etc.....trolling for ass, I wonder what women think about these guy's?

Old guy + hot car = sugar daddy?